Paq

Ok, i'm building my computer, getting parts, etc. this is what i've come up with.

1. Abit IC7 mobo, $113
2. PIV 2.8C ghz processor: $180 with heatsink/fan
3. 120Gb western digital 8MB cache, $70 after rebate
4. POWMAX Mid Tower ATX Case with 400W $25
5. Combo DVD/CDRW drive: $60 or less, depends if i find it cheaper online
6. 512 mb 3200 ram...this is where i'm having difficulties. I don't want to go massively expensive and i don't want to have any real hangup problems with it and i don't look to overclock much, if any. at least not right now. I am thinking http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...log=147&depa=1 for right now, 2 chips or http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...log=147&depa=1
$50 per chip is about the limits of price for the 256 chips. Any suggestions?

7. Video: i'm looking hardcore at the sapphire 9800pro for $210 shipped from newegg, but i'm also thinking 9600 and 9200, depends on price and availability. any suggestions for that? This isn't a gaming Intensive machine, but a few games would be nice.

8. Monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, graphics tablet, software, i already have.


anythign else i missed and can you help with the trouble areas

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HeAtHeN

Which O/S are you going to run?

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Paq

xp home

and i just thought about it and $200 for a vid card is something that could be better spent, so if someone has a suggestion on a card around $100 or so, lemme know.

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Destrox

And just what are you going to be using this computer for?

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Lasereth

Well if you don't want to spend $200 on a videocard, then why are you spending $180 on a processor? It's just a big of a waste if you're not gonna play games! May as well go with AMD if you want to save money.

-Lasereth

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VF19

*shudder* Dont get Geil! I just got 256 MB of PC3200 Kingston yesterday it runs perfectly. Too many bad reviews with Geil.

And yeah get AMD, A 2500 Barton will give you sufficient speed for about half the price of the Intel.

Redjake

DEFINITELY stay way from Geil. Worst RAM ever, man. Especially the 333 MHz FSB and up sticks.

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bltzkriegmcanon

From my experience, Kingston and Samsung make some pretty reliable stuff, even though I'm not entirely sure how flexible the CAS on Samsung RAM is.

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Paq

main reason for this computer is photoshop, so the 2.8 with HT is a definite advantage. Gaming is secondary, though, but something i would like to be able to do with a good bit of efficiency, which is why i'm thinking hte ati 9600 pro or xt. I just don't really think $201-$300 for a vid card is a good investment when they drop in price so quickly..I just want something that can handle dx9 and opengl 2.0 and be reliable/reasonable and reasonably priced. I don't know anything about nvidia's current lineup, though, so it's an option as well.


Thanks for the suggestions so far

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Vanquish

Look into a FX5700 ultra from Nvidia, its faster around the board then the ATI cards are, and after there messup with the 5800Ultra, now all the FX Cards have a decient cooling system. Another card that you may want to look at is the FX5900VTD (i think thats the lettering) from MSI, its only $250 here in canada, so I imagen you can pick it up for like $160 or so in the states. Its a great card, and with a little tweaking / overclocking you can potentially beat out a 9800XT (however in your case, OCing is probably not the best option). now onto other things.

For photoshop you are going to want more then 512mb ram. thats for sure. I do quite a bit of photo editing and have ran way over my 1gb RAM mark. I am looking at getting another 1gb / taking out the gb thats in my gaming comp and using that. 1gb is a near must now especially if you have PS 7/CS. If your not going to be OCing and gaming is not your forte then go with some kingston value ram / corsair value ram. The price / performance difference wont be VERY noticable in photoshop and I can guarentee that you would notice better performance with 1gb of Value DDR400 then 512mb of Fast DDR400.

Also, look into getting a second harddrive to store your Photoshop swap file on this is a huge timesaver. a WD40JB or some other 40gb HDD /w 8mb cache would be a huge help. if your going to be doing a lot of high sized work with pictures, it might even be a better idea to look into a small System drive and a large pic / swap file drive (aka 40gb System and a 120gb Storage) 2 HDDs are prefered over 1 partitioned, because of the windows swap file. that thing can get very annoying. Also make sure that they are on seperate channels to insure speed.

Other then that, it looks like a wicked photoshop machine. One that I would quite like to have

Paq

well, darnit...i was just about to hit the order button

here's what i have so far:
abit IS7 mobo (faster than the IC7 and cheaper and still has PAT only it's called GAT)
P4 2.8C wtih HT and 800 fsb
i was thinking 512 value kingston to start and when i build my resources back up, getting another 512 or 1 gb then. as in, right now, i'm buying 2 256 chips right now and i may buy 2 512's later when i have money in the budget for computer stuff again.
i just picked up an 80GB hd wiht 8mb cache for $65
I was going to go wtih the sapphire radeon 9800pro for $210. it looks to be the best i could get right now.

i have not quite learned of the differences in ram yet. pc3200 is what i'm going with, but now it is up to pc4500, but that is way too expensive and wouldn't be utilized by me. Overclocking is an *option* but i'm more of a stock person, i'd rather have it last longer than go faster, ya know...


That's the other reason for this mobo/proc combo. The mobo is compatible with the new prescott processor so if i need something in the 4ghz range, i'm good to go.
Specifications:
Supported CPU: Intel Pentium 4(HT Ready) Processors
Chipset: Intel 865PE + ICH5R
FSB: 800/533MHz, 400MHz only for Northwood CPU
RAM: 4x DIMM for Dual-Channel DDR400/333/266 Max 4GB
IDE: 2x ATA 100 up to 4 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP PRO 8X/4X(0.8/1.5V), 5x PCI
Ports: 2xPS2,1xLPT,1xCOM,SPDIF In/Out,1xLAN,8xUSB2.0(Rear 4),3xIEEE1394a(Rear 1),Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: 6-Channel AC97 Codec
Onboard LAN: 10/100Mbps Fast Ethernet
Onboard SATA/RAID: 2x Serial ATA 150, RAID 0/1
Onboard 1394: 3 Ports IEEE1394a

So it looks like it will serve me for a while. I'm having a 400w psu in a midtower case.

Umm...also having a cdrw/dvd combo drive. I don't forsee the need for burning DVD's as i don't download movies and don't work with files over 1 gb.

Hmm...any info on "fast ddr400 vs value ddr400?" i haven't come across the expression other than the turbo stuff that is 2x the price

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Vanquish

Ok well you willl notice with the more expensive ram, it has Heatspreaders, and other things to aid in overclocking. the Fast / Value comes in when you talk about CAS latency. the faster ram usually has a CL of 2 whereas the less expensive stuff has a CL of 2.5 and usually is just a chip (no heatspreaders). In your case, since your not overclocking, PC3200 will work fine. It will run at the 400MHZ max that that mobo supports, unless you up your FSB (the FSB is 800 but it is quad pumped compared to double so 4x200 not 2x200) it equals out to the same anyway.

If you were planning on getting more RAM later, get 1 512mb Stick of Corsair XMS or Kingston Hyper X, these are my brands of choice. The reason I say one stick is that the Dual Channel wont make THAT much of a difference, and if your getting more later, it would be better to have 2x512mb sticks in dual channel then 2x256 in dual channel and 1x512 on its own. (I still suggest you go for a GB and get the CL2.5 stuff but thats beside the point)

About the Proc. Keep in mind that Intel is switching to the new socket in the summer time, so you probably wont see any more then a 3.6ghz CPU on Socket 478.

Hope my suggestions help, and dont just confise you more. buying a new system is always a bitch. I hate getting something like this because there is always the "if I only spent X more amount of dollars I could of had something I really wanted" I know I do this all the time. I just hop that my new DSLR (D70) wont be like that

Paq

heh, i have the digital rebel camera, but mainly bc i have a bunch of canon lenses.

One thing to worry with about that cam: the lowest ISO you can get is 200 instead of 100, so the noise, especially in teh blue channel, becomes noticeable.

With that said, if you're already in with nikon, it's the best camera/value you can get, and BE SURE to buy the kit with the lens. Also, it's a pain getting used to the crop factor of these dslr's.

As for what comes out, the new 8MP p&s/prosumer cameras are WWAAYY too noisy for me. It's a HUGE pet peeve of mine with digital photo, which is why i went with canon's sensor. I'm INCREDIBLY happy with my camera, and i'm sure you will be with the nikon counterpart. The d70 is basically the next iteration of the D100, which was a damned fine camera wtih a TON of options. www.dpreview.com is my forum of choice for dslr talk.

Anyway, back to the computer stuff....

oK, this is what confuses me. i need 4 sticks of ram for Dual DDR, 2 sticks for just DDR and 1 stick will do nothing special? So basically, if i buy 2 sticks of 3 cas latency that equal 512 and 1 stick of 512 ram with 2.5 cas latency, then the perf will actually be about even and i'll have a lot mre room to upgrade? the whole Dual DDR/DDR/whatever thing is CONFUSING as hell to me sometimes. right now, i'm at about $84 for 512MB of ram in 2 sticks. If i can get 1 stick of 512 ram and still have the perf, i'd be happy as hell bc i will plan to upgrade later on.

Thanks for all the help. please respond as i want to purchase asap

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Mondak

Paq: Do you have a link to this? I want to check it out. Seems like a good deal. Maybe something good to mod....

Besides that, anything lasereth says you should do. He always steers me in the right direction. I think what he mentioned was that you should always look at your needs and build your comp around them. If you are not going to do any hardcore gaming (newer FPS etc.) you have a LOT of options on price and components.

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Paq

well
i ended up going with the sapphire radeon 9800pro i couldn't turn it down and at $210 for what it is..i could stretch the budget.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...145-032&depa=1 is the case i was going to get
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...182-538&depa=1 I ended up paying $3 more for this one (forgot about shipping, $35 vs $38) bc it comes with 2 fans (not one like the descript says) and the other doesn't have a single fan, so it would cost more for cooling.

Anyway, i did end up going:
abit IS7 mobo, has a good reputation and is faster than the IC7
PIV 2.8 Ghz 800 fsb and ht tech
2x256 kingston ddr400 kit, 512 total, i know, should go with a gig, but that will be a while, probably when i can buy a gig cheaper trhan i bought this..the mobo supports up to 4gb, so it'll be a while before i really sweat it.
80GB maxtor Hd 8mb cache (staples for $65)
16xdvd 52/32/52x cdrw. I don't need dvd burning capabilities, but i would like to have dvd playback, so this was a steal at $39.99 after $10 rebate.
56K modem: just bc i may need to dial in if i don't have lan access
and it was $16, so i figured it would be better than having to buy one later...
sapphire radeon 9800pro..mainly bc i coulnd't find a better price/performance deal and i would like to have some graphic power while i can,ya know
17" monitor, $99 shipped, i wanted 19", but i spent the money on a graphics card. good news is that i can dual display wtih a 15" monitor i have, so i consider it a decent deal.
Case: 2 front usb, normal case.

total cost was a bit less than $840. i scavenged a keyboard, mouse, floppy drive and cd drive from my 1995 packard hell.

Also, if you are looking for cases to mod, just go to newegg.com click on computer hardware, then cases, then in the search field, put in a max price of $30 and you'll find 4 pages of cases

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Lasereth

Nice computer you've ordered Paq! That thing will be blazing. I'm happy to see that more people are ordering that 9800 Pro for $210. I'd buy a few of them if I had the money. I'm also glad that my hours spent reading hardware articles over and over again are being used!

-Lasereth

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Paq

yeah, i started reading them as well and realized what a freaking monster it is...

And the sapphire is one of the better options and the cheapest for the radeon. I was shocked to see ATI's model rank so poorly, but we're talking like 1-2% difference in all of them.


I am pissed at newegg, though. zipzoomfly's stuff was shipped out by UPS and at no real "shipping" cost and is scheduled to arrive friday, by the tracking info. New egg started off with a delivery date of friday, then moved to monday...so now i'll have a mobo, proc, ram, and cdrw/dvd staring at me all weekend...GRRRRRRRR

Next up...I need some games

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Paq

hey
i got it built

idles at 39C, runs up to 50 if doing anything major.

Umm...quake is at 430 fps...

photoshop CS is giving me a problem wtih the serial number, saying it expired...weird. but it does load in 6 seconds and does canon raw in 3 seconds compared to 45 for my p3 450.

havn'et had a chance to test things out yet. Anyone got something i could download easily to test her out. I'm still in process of figuring out what ot put on her.

Thanks for all of the help, especially everyone in the chatroom on march 12th from 2 pm till 4 am, they were a great help in getting this running

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Lasereth

http://www.futuremark.com/download/

Go there and download the free versions of 3D Mark 2001 SE Build 330 and 3D Mark 2003. Run the programs at default settings and show some scores!

-Lasereth

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Paq

178 megs..i'm on dialup at the moment....


it'll be a while

anything else?

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