WhoaitsZ

Okay. my pc is semi crazy again. time for a new one.

this is how I buy. first off.... I don't want to touch it for months, perferably years.

a guy down here in MS did a wonderful job for me but he is gone now.

I have no set budget. BUT god knows I don't have any to throw away, alright? I can do 4-500 np... 800... i can wing. 1k will have me sweating.

I have always used AMD chips.

my OS will still be XP home edition - although I will run Linux also. A speedy boot up would be lovely.

I want a great , solid system. I am trying to understand some differences between:

Athlon 64 and Athlon XP. for instance, I realize the 64 is 2 cpus. I also know it won't 'improve speed', but enhance the speed of running major graphicly heavy programs at once.

what else is where i go uhhhhh.
and..... for example

from pricewatch

ECS - ONLINE ORDER ONLY - - ECS 755A - 8X AGP 5PCI 4 ATA-133 Raid 0/1 2-Serial ATA (SATA) USB 2.0
Details:
-with cpu - AMD Athlon 64 3000 CPU includes Heatsink/Fan

$310

ECS - - ECS L7VMM3; VIA KM266; 1 4xAGP; 2 PCI; 4 USB2.0; mATX; Video; Audio; LAN. 1Year Warranty!
Details:
-with cpu - On board Athlon Pro3100A+ Fan; INCLUDING 256Mb DDR & CASE; (AMD Athlon XP 3000+ 333FSB Barton

$188


i don't understand this shit yet.

another question:

is 256M Radeon 9600 worth $100 extra bucks than a 128m Radeon 9600? why? why not?

I also need a case. I don't care how it looks. money is an issue.

oh yeah, with the mobo&cpu combo above... would i be better off not buying combos?

I will probably add 4-8 HHDs, 2 cd roms, if firewire will speed me up i want it.

I need a powerful cooling system. i'm cold natured so i keep my room around 80 and i know i'll need more cold when I upgrade.



I would be better off supplying my own RAM. probably supply my own os. depends. my own HDD most likely.

i think that's about it...

remember: I cannot work on my systems. i have to get others to. i really wish nothing more advanced to do than add a hhd or ram.

Lasereth

Athlon XP is the mainstream AMD processors out right now. Athlon MP is the dual-processors you're talking about. Athlon 64 are just incredibly powerful processors...they're 64-bit compatible instead of 32, and really expensive. In other words, the only difference between Athlon XP and Athlon 64 is the fact that Athlon 64's are more powerful and 64-bit compatible.

The best processor-for-the-price on the market right now is the Athlon XP 2500+. Buying an Athlon XP requires a Socket A motherboard. I suggest the Abit NF7-S Revision 2.0. It has excellent on-board sound and every damned feature you'll ever need for computing.

The motherboard and processor will be about $200 total.

The difference between a Radeon 9600 128 MB and 256 MB is barely anything at all. I have to suggest the 128 MB version if you really want this card. The 256 MB is pretty much useless, even on the ultra-high end videocards ($400+).

You can get a case from NewEgg.com for $20 with a 400w shitty Power Supply Unit. Notice I said shitty PSU...you'll need a good one if you're gonna plug in lots of hard drives. I suggest buying a cheap ATX case with an Enermax or Sparkle Power Supply. 400w or above with either should do the trick. If you're NOT going to have multiple hard drives, then a "shitty" PSU will do fine.

A generic cheap case from NewEgg will be $30 max. Most cases come with a shitty PSU, but if you want a good one, they'll run you $50+.

Motherboard and CPU combos are alright if they're from a reputable company. I wouldn't buy computer parts from anywhere other than www.directron.com and www.newegg.com .

If you're going to supply your own RAM, make sure it's at least 512 MB and PC2700 DDR or above.

If you have any other questions, fire away. I'll be happy to answer!

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Jephree

CPU: Is this the right one?(for OC'ing)

__________________
When's the next good swell in SoCal?

Lasereth

Yeah, but NewEgg has it for cheaper. If you're gonna overclock it, be ready to buy some damn good RAM since the multiplier is locked now. I'd also get the OEM version if you're gonna overclock...that stock heatsink fan won't do.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

portwineboy

Lasereth, do mobo/cpu combos come pre-mounted?

I've been building my own PCs since 1988, but lately medical probs make my hands shake something fierce. I can assemble machines no prob, but mounting a cpu has become almost impossible for me.

__________________
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If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.

ToolBag

I bought the Barton 2500+ and have it overclocked to a 3200+ with no problem.

portwineboy, most mobo/pcu combos I have seen do not come assembled, I have seen sites that will do it for a charge though, but I dont remember what they were

__________________
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Dan 3:20

sailor

Z, personally, I would stay away from those ECS mobos. I owned one and had nothing but trouble.

Look at brands like Abit, Gigabyte, and Asus.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

teseniarkc

I would go with a MSI combo board. I have had really good performance and no problems. Make sure that it has a AGP slot though.

shakran

I agree with the majority that what you want is a Barton core XP 2500. I have one and there isn't anything it can run with ease. It even runs Flight Sim 2004 with ALL the eye candy turned on with perfectly smooth framerates, and that's with an ATI 9600. The 9800 will make it even better.

I usually get separate mobo / chip because I can then get the retail rather than the OEM chip, which means a 3 year warranty rather than 30, 15, or sometimes even 3 days.

For the mobo, the NF7-s is a great one, but if you don't plan on overclocking you can save some money by going with an Asus A7v8X-X. It's a perfectly fine board as long as you're not gonna overclock it. Also, as long as you're not gonna overclock it, you can use that CPU heatsink/fan that came in the chip's retail box.

Get a Raidmax case from newegg. They're cheap, they're roomy, they have side fans (blasts air straight on the chip - does wonders for system cooling), front USB, and the power supply they come with is pretty damn decent. The only thing to watch for is that (and this is one reason they're cheap) they don't do a real good job of deburring the metal on the inside. If you're not careful you'll cut yourself. Also, on some of their cases, it's a PITA to get the front panel off 'cause it's secured with 6 screws accessed from the inside. They're also pretty nice looking IMHO.

For fans, right now the cheapest I'm finding is the 80mm Antec quad LED fans. they're 10 bucks and have higher CFM's than fans twice as expensive. For some reason, they're also cheaper than the non-LED fans. 2 should do it for just about any setup in a Raidmax, but if you're still having heat problems, there's room for a total of 4 front 80mm fans, 1 side 80mm (included) and 1 rear 60mm. if you get the right case. Whole thing costs between $27 and $40 depending on options (side window, crap like that).

For HD's, you can get excellent Western Digitals pretty cheap right now. Officemax was selling an 80g one for $20 after rebates last week (!)

Ram, go with Crucial PC2700 DDR ram. 512 megs should cost around 60 bucks.

you can go with the 9800 if you want, but I have yet to see anything my 9600 can't handle, and the 9600 is MUCH cheaper than the 9800. Or, if you want, you can spend a bit less than you would for a regular 9800 and get a 9600 All In Wonder, which ads a TV tuner and an FM radio tuner to the mix. Pretty cool.

Sound card is easy. Unless you're planning on doing audio production, an SB Live! 5.1 is all you need. I've seen 'em go for 20 to 30 bucks before, so it shouldn't be hard to find one very cheap. They're excellent cards and are very reasonably priced.

WhoaitsZ

the following is what I plan to do.

any other suggestions?

will the power supply prevent damage and such also? like lightning or such

what about more cooling? I have no clue whatsoever as to how to go about cooling.

I run my pc HARD.

i may throw in a webcam if i can get a good one under $25?

i don't need extended warranties cuz i may overclock soon.

speak to me!





Cases (Computer Cases, ATX Form)
AGPB Beige Mid ATX Tower Case with 400W Power Supply, Model "CA-6688KL" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Case Type: ATX Mid Tower Case
Color: Beige
Material: Metal
Drive Bays: 5.25" x 4/0, 3.5" x 2/2 (external/internal)
Expansion Slots: 7
Front Ports: USB2.0
Power Supply: 400W
Cooling System: N/A
Motherboard Compatibility: ATX/ MICRO ATX/ AT/ P4
Dimensions: 7.8" x 17" x 17.3" (WxHxD) more info>
N82E16811192004
$28.00

$28.00
Memory (System Memory)
Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-2700 - OEM
Specification
Manufacturer: Kingston
Speed: DDR333(PC2700)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 2.5
Support Voltage: 2.5V
Bandwidth: 2.7GB/s
Organization: 64M x 64 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime more info>
N82E16820144202
$76.00

$76.00
Motherboards - AMD
ABIT KM400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU, Model "VA-10" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: Socket A AMD Processors
Chipset: VIA KM400 + VT8235
FSB: 200/266/333MHz
RAM: 2x DIMM for DDR333/266/200 Max 2GB
IDE: 2x UltraDMA 66/100/133 up to 4 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP 8X, 3x PCI
Ports: 2xPS2,1xCOM,1xLPT,1xVGA,6xUSB2.0(Rear 4),1xLAN,SPDIF Out,Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: VT6106 6-Channel Codec with Digital S/PDIF output
Onboard Video: S3 UniChrome Graphics
Onboard LAN: VIA 6103 10/100Mbps Fast Ethernet
Form Factor: Micro ATX more info>
N82E16813127159
$56.99

$56.99
Processors
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ "Barton", 333 FSB, 512K Cache Processor - Retail
Specification
Model: AMD Athlon XP 2500+
Core: Barton
Operating Frequency: 1.83GHz
FSB: 333MHz
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/512K
Voltage: 1.65V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket A
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: Retail Box (Heatsink and Fan included) more info>
N82E16819103379
$90.00

$90.00
Video Cards
ATI AIW RADEON 9600 Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, CATV/Video Out/Video In, 8X AGP -RETAIL
Specifications:
Chipset/Core Speed: RADEON 9600/325MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/400MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: CATV In+A/V Out+A/V In
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®2.0
Cable/Accessories: Not Specified
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@60Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details) more info>
N82E16814102345
$185.00

$185.00
Extend my Standard Warranty on the above qualified items: $26.16
Subtotal »

$435.99

Crack

Why is this not a good board to OC with, I own the ASUS A7N8X Deluxe, and it OC's like a bastard, is there something I don't know?

__________________
Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

Lasereth

The case is fine as well as the PSU...but only if you're not gonna get more than one hard drive. If you're gonna have lots of hard drives, get a better PSU. I suggest Enermax or Sparkle.

If you're gonna overclock, you'll need at least PC3200 RAM with that processor. I suggest Corsair with a CAS of 2. 512 MB should do fine, but get 256 MB x 2 instead of a single 512 MB stick.

I'd get a better motherboard if you're gonna overclock. Either get the Asus A7N8X or the Abit NF7-S. I'd get the latter. The motherboard you listed is cheap, but you'll need better for overclocking. It also has useless onboard video.

The Athlon XP 2500+ Barton is good, but get the OEM instead of the Retail. For overclocking, you'll need a better CPU fan. I suggest the Thermaltake Volcano 7+ or 9+. They're about $30.

The videocard is a rip-off. Get a GeForce FX 5900 (non-Ultra, non-SE, non-XT) for $200 instead...that's a MAJOR increase from the 9600, and for only a few bucks extra.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

WhoaitsZ

uuuuuuuuuhhhhhh. pick one

my mind is burning..... well the hell past fried.




EVGA GeForce FX 5900SE, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "128-A8-N321" -RETAIL


- Specifications -

Chipset/Core Speed: GeForce FX 5900SE/400MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/700MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video Out)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®1.4
Cable/Accessories: S-Video Cable, VGA via DVI Adapter, 4 CD, Manual
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details)

Model#: 128-A8-N321
Item#: N82E16814130179

Rating: Vote(s): 109 Review(s): 61
Free FedEx Saver Shipping



Yes $189.00
Add to Wish List


XFX GeForce FX 5900XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "PVT35LNA" -RETAIL


- Specifications -

Chipset/Core Speed: GeForce FX 5900XT/390MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/700MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®1.4
Cable/Accessories: Not Specified
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details)

Model#: PVT35LNA
Item#: N82E16814150051

Rating: Vote(s): 3 Review(s): 3
Free FedEx Saver Shipping



Yes $189.00
Add to Wish List


Leadtek GeForce FX 5900XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "A350XT TDH" -RETAIL


- Specifications -

Chipset/Core Speed: GeForce FX 5900XT/390MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/700MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®1.4
Cable/Accessories: 3 Cables, 3 CD, Manual
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details)

Model#: A350XT
Item#: N82E16814122183

Free FedEx Saver Shipping



Yes $194.00
Add to Wish List


Gigabyte GeForce FX 5900XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "GV-N59X128D" -RETAIL


- Specifications -

Chipset/Core Speed: GeForce FX 5900XT/390MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/700MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®1.4
Cable/Accessories: Not Specified
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details)

Model#: GV-N59X128D
Item#: N82E16814125128

Rating: Vote(s): 3 Review(s): 2
Free FedEx Saver Shipping



Yes $194.99
Add to Wish List


CHAINTECH GeForce FX 5900XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "SA5900X" -RETAIL


- Specifications -

Chipset/Core Speed: GeForce FX5900XT/390MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/700MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®1.4
Cable/Accessories: Not Specified
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details)

Model#: SA5900X
Item#: N82E16814145072

Rating: Vote(s): 1
Free FedEx Saver Shipping

Lasereth

I advised not to get an SE, or XT above. I still recommend not getting those. What you want is a GeForce FX 5900.

Chipset/Core Speed: GeForce FX5900/400MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB DDR/700MHz
BUS: AGP 1X/2X/4X/8X
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub)+TV-Out(S-Video Out)+DVI connector
Support 3D API: DirectX®9, OpenGL®1.4
Cable/Accessories: VGA via DVI Adapter, 2 Cables, 3 CD, Manual
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
Retail Box (See pics for details)

Model#: FX Ultra/1100TV/DVI
Item#: N82E16814128162


Straight from NewEgg for $209. The extra dollars are worth it.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

shakran

Get the crucial ram. It's less expensive and it's much better.

Where are you buying this stuff? My 2500 Barton core was just over half the price of yours.

Drop the extended warranty. For most components, if they're not DOA, they won't die unless you do something dumb.

No power supply will protect from power surges. For this you need a good surge protector.

How many fans will that case of yours hold? Find out, 'cause some cases only have room for 1 fan, and you'll regret it if you buy one like that.

I like the ATI's better than the nVidias right now. Personal preference though - but FWIW the 9600 is NOT a ripoff. It's designed as a more mid-range pricepoint for those that want better than the 9500 but can't (or don't want to) afford the 9800.

At any rate, drop chaintech as the maker of your vidcard. Chaintech is crap.

Switch motherboards. 2 ram slots is pathetic. 3 at minimum.







I said A7v8X-X, not A7N8X-deluxe

The v8X-X is OK for overclocking but won't be as fast as other boards, and it has been known to have issues requiring a bios update, which is universally a PITA.

WhoaitsZ

yawn

ok lemme try this shit again

Lasereth

I didn't say the 9600 was a bad card, I said it was a ripoff. For $185, you can almost get a GeForce FX 5900 which is more powerful than a Radeon 9700 Pro. Paying $185 for a 9600 is a rip-off, even if it were a Pro (and it's not).

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

WhoaitsZ

i'm gonna take a break. it took me like two hours to pick the wrong shit so heh.

if someone wants....... pick me out what you'd by. don't be overly cheap or high ended... be sensible. i can always see paying an extra $20 - $30 for a pretty good upgrade i will notice. if it's not much of a deal...... then $20 - $30 saved

shit i'm tired.

Lasereth

If I were gonna spend $500-$800, this is what I'd get:

AMD Athlon XP 2500+ $85
Abit NF7-S Revision 2.0 Motherboard $99
512 MB (256 MB x 2) PC3200 Corsair RAM, CAS 2-3-3-6 $125
Volcano 9+ CPU Heatsink Fan $30
Maxtor 80 GB 7200 RPM 8 MB Cache $80
Lite-On CD-RW 52x32x52 $40
Generic Case $50
Enermax 350w PSU $60
Floppy $10
Gainward 128 MB GeForce FX 5900 $210
Extra case fan $7

That'll put you right at $800. I wouldn't choose anything other than the above combo if I were gonna spend that much. Hope this helps!

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

WhoaitsZ

sounds good. I don't need a cd-r or HDD (i have three and hoping to get a new 80 from Maxtor to replace the one that died). that's a good chunk of change there.

if it means anything to you fellas, i told mom 'thank god i have lots of pc friends.'

she was very impressed when i told her what all you have done.

it is easy to be buried by technicalities... especially for me...

i'll post farther plans tomorrow.

one question. why the hell get 256 instead of one 512?

shakran

Where are you buying? I paid $175 for my 9600, and mine's the AIW with the TV and radio tuner stuff, and it even came with a remote, stuff the nVidia card does not offer.


btw, http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...tby=14&order=1

tons of cases under $50. The PSU's are fine for what he's doing.

Lasereth

First off, I said $185 because that's the one that WhoaitsZ posted. I know they're cheaper than that. I was replying to WhoaitsZ suggestion of the 9600 for $185. I still think $175 is a rip-off for a 9600 if it's a non-Pro.

I know NewEgg has cases for under $50. Mine was $19.99 with a 400w PSU. I gave him $50 clearance to get whatever case he wants. And if he is gonna have multiple hard drives, a shitty POWMAX or RAIDMAX will simply not work. They blow shortly after you have multiple hard drives in them. He'll need a quality PSU for that amount of wattage. The shitty ones are fine for one or two HDDs, but after that, I wouldn't risk adding anything else to them. Enermax and Sparkle are the way to go. Their PSUs are ultra high quality and will run about anything you throw at them. It's worth the extra price.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

sailor

Ill second the bit about the PSUs. Dont skimp there--its one component that everyone seems to overlook, and yet can have so much influence on the stability of your system...

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato