flat5

INTEL Q8300 Product Details bij Mycom

Sorry about the Dutch but I think you can get the details.

I do some music processing like noise reduction and format converting. Will do some video editing/converting in the future. Trying to say that I don't need really fast video, IMO. I wish the motherboard was listed so the video/audio could be evaluated.

Do you think it's good performance vs cost?
Does the site offer something better in perf./cost?

Thanks for your comments.

Baraka_Guru

Here's a translation.

(Excuse any poor translation. It's Google Translate.)

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

flat5

Translation is very usable. Thank you.
If there is a positive responce then I may call to find out about the power supply, motherboard, etc.

LordEden

A few things I saw and need to ask. First off, it's only got 4 gb of RAM and that's the Max that motherboard will take. That means that you will never be able to upgrade the RAM in this PC without switching out the motherboard (which isn't recommended anyway with a prefab PC). It's also DRR2 RAM either 667/800, a bit behind the times on that.

Two, if you are doing any kind of video/audio editing, you really need something better than on-board video/audio. Usually onboard audio is subpar for editing (it's fine for listening to MP3s and audio CDs) and on-board video usually is not high-end. Most people that will be needing higher end graphics/audio go with separate cards. That's why you see so many gamers with PCI x16 video cards, those onboard jobs just can't cut it with modern video games.

What currency is this in? I am to lazy to try to convert it to American dollars so I can make a reasonable judgment on price. USA Dell/Hp/Gateway/Walmart $500 for a PC can get you on the net, let you play some games, word processing and other generic uses for a PC at decent speeds. They are not made for editing but it can be done. I think later on down the line you will kick yourself for buying it when you are waiting forever for any rendering to be done on your PC.

How much is your max you can spend on this PC? That's the best question for buying a new PC. Then figure out from there what you can afford for what you want to do.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

snowy

It's euros, Eden. So it's $644.47.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

flat5

Thank you LordEden for your comments.
The comments about ram are interesting.
I thought 4gigs would be enough though.
Perhaps for Win7 it should be greater?
Audio & graphics cards I can deal with later.
I should find out what more "modern" motherboards have to offer and what they cost.
I don't play games. I may be wrong but I think soundcards
are only used for input/output - not for audio processing.
I don't know what advantages new memory offers.
Are they better for multitasking?
I don't know how much I want to spend. I just want good value for money and don't think I need the latest and greatest.
I'm thinking slightly older technology gives good value for cost.
I put many computers together in the last 23 years but have no experience with the newer multiprocessing systems.
I think the last machine I put together was 5 years ago and it used older parts to save money. It was a basic machine.

Shadowex3

To address your concerns in order:

1. Audio and Video work use enormous quantities of RAM. Even merely photoshopping things can take gigabytes of ram just by itself, rendering audio or video can be even harsher. Windows 7 is a good idea... mainly because it supports 64bit (which is required for really using more than 3gb of ram) and is very good at handling multiple cores and whatnot compared to XP and Vista.

2. Given the work you will be doing you should consider those right now as they are going to be quite important to your work. Think of it like a Search and Rescue group buying an off-road vehicle and deciding they would deal with wheels later.

3. Motherboards don't offer features that are relevant to what you will be doing, but they do decide which hardware you will be able to use based on what they support on a hardware and software level. You can't put a modern videocard in a motherboard that doesn't have the right plug, and you can't put a modern processor in a motherboard that doesn't support it.

4. Whether or not you play games has nothing to do with this. Soundcards, especially quality ones like from Auzentech, are often used to process and render audio. You could do it on the CPU only... just like you can do anything on just the CPU. Just because you can does not mean you should. Not having, or having a poor quality soundcard, could leave you hearing things inaccurately or your computer working harder or longer to process and render audio work. It's a matter of whether you want to use the CPU or specialized hardware designed specifically for audio work.

5. More memory means your computer can hold more data in the right place at a given time instead of needing to constantly shuffle stuff onto or off of the hard drive which is FAR slower. Think of it like having many cans of beans which need to be put on the shelf. Having more RAM, and being able to use it, is like having carts to carry the beans to the place where you are working.

6. Slightly older technology... OR technology that isn't in the highest class. When new technology comes out nowadays a company doesn't just release "X" item and that's it, they release many different versions. You can get "X", or "X+1" or "X-2", all of which are better or worse and priced differently.

You're going into a very specialized field and doing very computer intensive work, before you buy a computer and start working on this you really should take the time to become familiar with all the hardware and what it means and does again as that knowledge will be extremely important to your ability to manage your money and use what you have as best you can. Especially since what you have said you will be doing specifically can often be very reliant on, or improved greatly through specialized technology like the right graphics or sound cards.

Using the right technology can go all the way up to cutting in half the amount of time it takes to do something, knowing what is what can have the same effect on what you spend.

Just for example: A gamer needs a very fast graphics card and a good CPU but will never need more than a basic soundcard and will likely never use more than 4-6 gigabytes of ram. You on the other hand do not need a very fast graphics card, can use the same processor, but will benefit from a more advanced soundcard that supports professional standards and may actually use anywhere from 6 to 8 gigabytes of ram depending on what programs you use.

__________________

flat5

Thank you for your detailed thoughts, Shadowex3.

I am only doing the audio processing for myself - not business. My present hardware does what I need although I may have to wait 5-25 minutes for it to work on a 75 minute audio file :-)
The programs I'm using are CoolEdit v1.2 (1999 prog) and ClickRepair. Also some audio converters. Old stuff.

My hardware:
Computer:
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional
OS Service Pack Service Pack 2
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
Computer Name ATHLON2K (Desk)

Motherboard:
CPU Type AMD Athlon XP, 1666 MHz (12.5 x 133) 2000+
Motherboard Name Asus A7V333-X (6 PCI, 1 AGP, 3 DDR DIMM)
Motherboard Chipset VIA VT8377 Apollo KT400
System Memory 1536 MB (DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type Award Modular (10/09/02)

Display:
Video Adapter NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400 (32 MB)
3D Accelerator nVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400
Monitor Plug and Play Monitor [NoDB](94LMTF066291)

Multimedia:
Audio Adapter Creative SB PCI128 (Ensoniq ES5880) Sound Card

Storage:
IDE Controller VIA Bus Master IDE Controller
Floppy Drive Floppy disk drive
Disk Drive WDC WD3200JB-00KFA0 (298 GB, IDE)
Disk Drive Maxtor 6Y120P0 (120 GB,7200 RPM,Ultra-ATA/133)
Disk Drive WDC WD3200AAJB-00TYA0 (298 GB, IDE)
Disk Drive WD Ext HDD 1021 USB Device (1397 GB, USB)
Optical Drive HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B
SMART Hard Disks Status OK

Input:
Keyboard Standard 101/102-Key PS/2 Keyboard
Mouse Logitech-compatible Mouse PS/2

Network:
Network Adapter ASUSTeK/Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated

Peripherals:
Printer Fax
Printer HP DeskJet 720C
Printer PDF995
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB2 Controller VIA USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
USB Device USB Mass Storage Device
----------------

So I expect the above system in post one will just work faster than what I'm using presently.
I'm have trouble designing a better option but am learning about what is out there now - but could use help :-)

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------

Actually I'm not that happy with the MyCom system because of missing features on the motherboard.
I would like a parallel port and ata port.
I need to know how much faster DDR3 is compared to DDR2 for what I plan to do.

Is there a good thread here discussing these issues?

Dragonlich

Perhaps you should consider going to the store. I used to work in one of their stores (5+ years ago), and in my experience, they assemble these "prefab" computers themselves. If you need another motherboard, they can simply change it.
If these systems are indeed prefabricated (assembled in a Mycom store elsewhere), you could order a custom PC.

If you go for a custom PC, you could pay a bit more or a lot more. It all depends on what you want.
I suggest you make a list of the things you want from your system (including the price) and take it to the store.

As for your last questions:
- Why do you need a parallel port? Is that for an external sound/music box? Or is that just for the printer? The 720C probably won't work with Windows 7.
- What do you mean by "Ata" port? Do you mean an IDE port (PATA) for your older harddisk or something?
- DDR3 should be faster than DDR2, but it's difficult to say exactly how much faster. It depends on the software: where's the bottleneck. If you need to read and write large chunks of data to a relatively slow harddisk, your really fast DDR3 memory won't help much.

flat5

Thank you, Dragonlich. Your comments have been useful.

I have built all my computers using MyCom for over 20 years :-)
Starting with a 386sx. I miss the printed catalog!
It's much harder using their on-line catalog. It's buggy too.
Yes, I'll have to talk to a salesman. It will be worthwhile.
I have time. I just put in a used power supply in this machine and it will be ok for a long time. Since it was open I increased the memory to 2gb. The panic is over :-)
I'll make a list of my thoughts and go to MyCom.
They also have a phone service. Perhaps I should try that.

Yes I would like to continue to use the HP720 (I also have a spare 710). I would be surprised if Win7 has a good driver for it. Win XP does not. Graphics only 72 dpi.
I never could get 300 dpi with XP.
I don't know what printer to get. I almost never use a printer. What printer uses economical inks?
IDE ATA was to use drives I have but a new one TB drive and the fact that DVD writers are so inexpensive (and come with new systems) means I don't need it. Thanks for pointing that out. I would like to have a serial port. I wrote a phone dialer program in Delphi 8 years ago and still want to use it with a modem. I'm strange.

Dragonlich

Your welcome.
Just for you (and my parents) I went to the local Mycom this afternoon. It turns out their "prefab" systems are indeed prefab. If you want something else, you have to get a custom PC. I expect the price of a custom PC to be pretty much identical to the prefab system, though.

The prefab systems look pretty slick, and are also pretty quiet. My parents bought one, and I got to testdrive it.

- Printers... In general, the higher the price of the printer, the lower the price of ink. I bought a midrange model (deskjet 5150), but because I hardly use it, I think it would have been cheaper to buy a lower-end model. At the moment I'm thinking of buying an all-in-one, so that I can photocopy stuff. I'll be getting the cheap model this time.
- Serial port: the low-end Mycom system my parents bought has a serial port. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of motherboards still have them, perhaps hidden away somewhere.

LordEden

There also is a lot of adapters that turn older Legacy port cables into USB. Newegg or Cablestogo have all sorts of things out there that turn into USB. I know I've bought 4 serial port to USB hubs on cablestogo. I know they have USB modems too. I'd recommend that more than an internal modem.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

flat5

Thanks guys for your input.
In the past I always looked over the MyCom catalog very carefully and thought for days putting the machine together.
I enjoyed it. Now I have to use the on-line catalog which has less data and is awkward to use.
So using a salesman's time is necessary. Maybe a good thing.
Gotta wonder which system you chose for your parents :-)
I forgot to list quiet as one of my concerns. It really is!

Lord Eden, USB adapters or whatever, that certainly is an option.
Remember when it was normal that the serial-parallel ports, floppy-mfm controllers were on an ISA card or two?

I need to know if under Win7 4gigs will be enough ram. If not, the prefab above is not for me.

snowy

I run Win7 on a laptop with 2GB of RAM with zero problems.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

LordEden

You also don't edit raw audio files and video snowy. Like I said earlier Flat, 4GB is the most you can use for that system, so if you feel like you need more RAM later, it won't be possible.

Keep that in mind if you are thinking of upgrading later on down the line, you will be buying a new PC instead an extra 2-4gb of RAM.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

snowy

That's a really good point. I once bought a system that wasn't easily upgradeable. I regretted it a year or so later.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

flat5

If I use Win7 32bit 4 gig is ok.
If I have software that is 64bit to edit/process audio I should have a system that allows 8gig and better, 16gig.

I'm still investigating. It might be cool to update my software too :-)

flat5

These parts are on order:

- Cooler Master Sileo with 500 Watt PSU
- Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E7500, 2,93 GHz, socket 775
- Asus Main board P5QPL-AM, mATX, s775, HD Audio 5.1,
..Intel GMA X4500 video, par. Port, com Port, 2xPCI
- OCZ 2x2 GB DDR2 800 MHz Memory
- WD 1 TB Caviar Black 7200 rpm, 64 MB Hard disk
- LG 22x DVD burner
- Windows XP Pro English

520 Euros

New Computer.pdf