Hydra1978

I've been thinking of switching to a Mac for a long time now, but I wanted to get some opinions.

It's not like I'm devoid of knowledge when it comes to computers, in fact I've always built my own computers, but recently I seem to be very tired of Windows and all their shinanigans.

I've used Macs and I really enjoy them. They seem to be far less maintenance than that of their PC counterparts.

Now the problem I run into when I ask people's opinions is that they say I love Macs because "they just work". This is just a line that is thrown in by Macs and their need to market the product, but people just regurgitate it back to others.

PC fanatics like to do the same but don't have concrete facts.

If you know some Advantages or Disadvantages in comparison, please discuss. I want some other people's insight into this subject.

__________________
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful. I have so many other attributes to hate me for!

drego

Mac vs PC.....man this is a debate that never gets old. Being a long time PC-fanatic my initial uneducated and completely personal opinion would be to sit here and scream "PC!!! DEAR GOD WHY WOULD YOU WANT ANYTHING ELSE??", but this is not what you're asking.

I think it boils down to you. What do YOU want to do with the computer? Mac has a very obvious performance lead over PCs when it comes to things along the lines of video editing and compilation (although with the advent of multi-core 64bit cpus, that gap is closing), where as PCs offer a plethora of software options, as well as a gaming market that can't be beat.

I might as well throw out there the fact that with Intel designing chip sets, Macs are turning into over glorified PCs that basically base their OS off of Unix, but that's just the bitter PC-er in me.

A safe solution might be a dual boot. From what I hear of Bootcamp it offers a lot to those who need or want to straddle the OS line, so to speak.

So once again, what do you want to do with your new computer?

~Drego

__________________
There is no such thing as "Bug Free" software....there is only software with an acceptable (and documented) level of failure.

Hack the Planet!!!!

Willravel

Yeah, what are you looking to do?

Do you have a lot of money, do you not like building computers, do you prefer stability without having to work for it, and an image that loved by many but hated by many others? Mac.

Cynthetiq

As far as video editing is concerned, gap is closed. Many production facilities utilize PC Windows based Avid systems because of the lower total cost of ownership. Lower TCO is based on the fact that parts for PC based machines are much cheaper than Mac based platforms.

I have an XP box that I have no problems with, "it just works." with dual 19" monitors for the same price of a single screen mac. I can easily run Avid on my home setup.

I will state that the same thing. What do you want out of the machine?

Personally I find that macs have more style on the outside and on the inside. So icons bounce, cases & monitors are all-in-one with a cool looking stand.

For me, I like the multitude of software availability and compatibility. I don't ever wonder if I some new thing comes out and scratch my head thinking,"Does it support OSX?" For years, I could download things from my Tivo. Mac users could only do it recently panning the company for ignoring the 3% Mac community penetration. My palm/treo doesn't sync well on OSX out of the box, I'd have to use a 3rd party application. Blackberry? I dunno. But if it was XP, I'd have confidence that it would be yes.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Charlatan

After being a PC user for the past 17 or so years, I was forcibly switched to Mac about a year ago.

While I still have some issues with the Mac (mostly stemming form how it saves files - it's finder is kind of crappy compared to File Manager) I have grown to love my Mac. On the whole, OS X is a great operating system.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

ratbastid

I switched less than a year ago and I'm TOTALLY happy with it. The "just works" extends right to the OS and well-designed apps. As a long-time PC user, I've been downright SHOCKED at how many apps I can drag-and-drop between, and they just understand one another. So many times I'd try something, expecting it to fail the same way it always did on a PC, and it totally worked.

Literally the ONLY frustration was the lack of support for home and end keys. I do a lot of text manipulation in my work (to say nothing of here on TFP!) and I've gotten really used to those keys. There are hacks that make them work in some circumstances, and some apps (gods bless TextMate) handle them the way the PC does, but mostly they don't do what you expect.

Ustwo

The age old Nerd debate, Mac vrs PC.

In my early days it was the C64 vrs Apple IIe.

I built a new system not long ago and installed XP. I'm pretty happy with that set up and more importantly it plays every game out there in full definition without a hitch. To me thats whats important on the computer, because if it was for my 'real' activities, I wouldn't need much of a computer.

When the Vista crap started hitting the blogs I toyed with the idea of getting a Mac for my wife and myself (I was building a new system for her to) but it would be akin to a computer lifestyle change. Macs do have what I think of as a better OS over all, but its software is lacking.

So it becomes a catch 22. You get sick of Microsoft so you want to switch OS's but the Mac OS doesn't have the software support you want so you stick with Microsoft anyways and then there is one less reason for someone to develop software for Macs.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

roachboy

anything to do with audio or graphics requires a mac.
no way around it, so if the answer to the question "what do you want to do with the machine" involves either of these areas, go that way and dont look back.

i still use a pc for most stuff, except the above, mostly out of habit.
i'll switch over entirely over the next available summer.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Hydra1978

Yes I agree with all of your points! That's what I wanted to hear from other users of both!

The main reason I used to use a PC was for games, net, music, and homework. Lately, I have reverted to using console systems for Gaming since I don't have as much time as I used to (see other posts in gaming forum).

I want a computer that will give me less dificulties when using it for just run of the mill apps. I don't use anything excessive (since i droped my WOW habit) when it comes to apps. I've been playing on my gf Macbook and love the way it runs.

As usual, I'm a big PC user for many years. It just seems that more and more I have to do work on the PC just to keep it up to date with all of the Windows based programs.

*shrug* Cost is definately going to come into a factor, but we'll see how it goes.

As of right now for my situation: Mac > PC for me. Unless I can find some compeling arguments to say otherwise.

__________________
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful. I have so many other attributes to hate me for!

Willravel

Mac has some games now, but we're still behind in video cards.

What are run of the mill apps? Browser, music, chat, Word, mail? Or more?

Lasereth

If you want a PC that will not be for gaming and you don't plan on upgrading then there's no reason not to get a Mac. I can't recommend a Mac for gaming or for the upgraders niche though. Macs look awesome and don't look so ridiculous, but you lose the upgrading fun that comes with a PC.

The media creation encoding decoding photoshop divx graphics art excuse simply doesn't exist anymore. The PC versions of these applications do everything that the Mac versions do and PCs are just as strong as Macs in every area. Not a disadvantage of a Mac but definitely not an advantage.

So: upgrader and gamer, or regular user. If you're a regular user I see nothing wrong with it.

Oh, and the price difference isn't enough to bitch about anymore Mac haters.

Plan9

Been posted before most likely, but here's some scathing crap about Mac vs. PC:

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ratbastid

With the exception of games (where the gap is closing thanks to Apple's use of commodity hardware these days), that's really not true anymore.

sadistikdreams

Can I just point out that you can run Windows XP on modern Macintosh machines?

/thread.

Cynthetiq

Every iteration of MS Office there is the question of if they will continue to release another version of Office. So one of the original interoperability pieces of software gets threatened to disappear. It's almost like most of my IT career where I'm constantly threatened by being laid off and outsourced. One day I finally was.

Ask quadro when he was finally able to get something off his Tivo via the official Tivo application.

Those that had Treos, seemed to have moved to iPhones, and then lose their ability for enterprise email support (corporate email.)

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Frosstbyte

I don't see why Mac users think this is simply the end of the discussion. It's true and it's a nice feature, but regardless of that fact, I wouldn't buy a Mac if I was going to use predominantly PC programs. You still run into hardware issues and the relative difficulty of upgrading any of the "guts" of the machine. For people who really do want to straddle the fence, it's great. For most users, it doesn't do much to solve the essential dilemma.

Willravel

Unless you're gaming, you don't need to upgrade the parts. The iMac I plan on getting? 2.8GHz dual core with 4GB ram. How much more do you need?

It's like buying from Alienware, I suppose. You're buying it prebuilt.

Plan9

Dunno, ask me next year when the machine you listed above is obsolete.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Ustwo

Ack, I see the culture is still there. I don't know why Mac users get into a 'we' mode. Its not a sports team (and its kinda silly there too), its a computer, you ain't fighting the power, just supporting a different one. I know Mac likes to foster this image, but unless you work for Mac, there is no 'we'.

If its the best for you, buy it, but its still a 'them'.

Well to me obviously its the games, but I'm going to be building a bunch of systems for work soon. Due to the nature of the software I need being a limited market, they only have windows versions. Going for mac is a limited market of a limited market, and therefore not viable. I wouldn't mind having Macs as my work computers, but I can't.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

I own stock. It's we.

Hydra1978

HAHAHA! I read that long ago! It still cracks me up though. Maddox is hilarious!

__________________
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful. I have so many other attributes to hate me for!

Ustwo

Its still them, you just got season tickets.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

Oh wow, dude.
Check this out really quick: http://money.howstuffworks.com/stock.htm

I own a fraction of Apple Inc. It's not 'season tickets', it's owning a fraction of the team. When they win, I actually win monetarily. I get tangible benefits from their success.

It's us.

Ustwo

Chillax man I didn't know you were such a corporate shill.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

I make concessions when it's fun and I don't see any negative effect.

Cynthetiq

actually you don't win until you cash out your stock. you don't get anything tangible until you cash out. Otherwise you'd be paying capital gains on gains not necessarily realized, and taking losses on losses that aren't necessarily happening. So even if you bought your stock at the historical low of 16 and now it's up to 126, until you convert your stock by selling it, you don't win anything monetarily. Up to that point, it's all paper gains.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

ubertuber

This has got to be the least informative and lamest Mac vs. PC thread ever.

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Willravel

Paper gains ≠ being a fan. That's the bottom line.

/end threadjack

filtherton

Everybody knows that the idea for macs was originally conceived by hitler.

ScottKuma

That was Willravel's point - as long as you're not gaming, the machine WON'T be obsolete! I have a PC downstairs that I don't use to play games. It's four years old and is still very effective at doing all of the things that I bought it for: surfing the web, writing papers, letting the kids play educational programs, even watching the occasional online video! Maybe it's BECOMING obsolete now that Vista is here - it certainly can't keep up with the size & memory requirements of that OS....but four years is a lot to get out of just about any consumer product!

I came to a conclusion about a year ago: with the exception of MMORPGs, if I want to game, I'll use a console. I don't see the point of spending hundreds of dollars a year on the PC upgrade rat race to be able to play games...especially when my console hooks up so nicely to my 46" 1080p HDTV! Yes, so will my PC, but that involves taking it downstairs & actually hooking it up on a regular basis.

Once I came to that conclusion re: gaming, it became a no-brainer to buy a Mac...and I'm EXTREMELY happy with my purchase!

As a fairly recent convert, and a 20 year PC user, I can tell you the following:

1. The iMac is the best piece of hardware I've ever purchased. It's slick-looking, compact, QUIET, fast, and when you compare machines on an even playing field, is just a little bit more expensive than its more poorly-designed PC brethren.

2. I have had not a single WHIT of problems finding quality mac software for what I do. For work, I have Microsoft Office or any of its quality free alternatives. I actually went out & purchased iWork 08, and its a very good product as well - and compatible with Office, to boot! For surfing the web, Safari is pretty good, but Firefox (free, again!) is where it's at on ANY platform! For editing home movies, iLife is good for the amateur (like me) and there are certainly higher-class products in that field.

3. For those windows programs that you absolutely can't live without, I wentout and bought the $79 parallels product, transferred the windows license from my old PC, and I run XP in a VM.... Ok, now I have a couple of caveats for you: You need a crap-load of memory in the machine to do this effectively...so you still need to buy that. Also, 3d support isn't the greatest, so the newest games don't work well. HOWEVER, it still runs older games quite acceptably!

4. There *IS* a bit of OS-shock to get over when starting out. I initially thought that the worst of this would be getting over the window controls being on the upper-left of the window instead of the upper right...but it's a bit more pervasive than that. Nothing you won't get over in about a week, but some things still get me when switching back and forth (home/end key behavior differs, for example....it gets me EVERY time!) from my work-issued PC laptop.

Everyone here has made some good points - on both sides! I think what it comes down to is: what do you WANT to buy? If you are in college, or in a field where Apples are more pervasive, then by all means buy an Apple! If not, weigh the pros and cons AS YOU SEE THEM...and come to a decision.

__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have.

GoogleMap Me

Plan9

4 years is good, but I'm willing to bet after 5 that thing will be gathering dust. We are talking about disposable technology that evolves every 6 months.

Computers... like cell phones, lingerie, and office employment... are a rat race regardless of whether you game on 'em or not. My desktop tower with the sold-out-to-the-gummint Intel Pentium chip and 128 RAM pushing '98 isn't useful anymore because it has some minor conflicts with legacy software that prevents consistent work productivity and it can't run USB peripherals to save its ass. It can't run graphics programs fast enough to be useful. DVD player? CD burner? Get real. And it is slow as turtle shit... which is relative, but let's get real: Would you hang on to a car that's 20 years old just because it holds your ass with a seatbelt and still does 60 mph? Not me. Junk the fucker. It did its job.

If wanted a machine to run WordStar on... I'd have kept my Tandy 20mhz.

...

Based on this? I'll probably have to go with PCs... because they're a little cheaper to buy when the 3-4-5 year upgrade comes.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ScottKuma

I'll throw Linux on it & use it as a router or file server, maybe my personal web server. But I'm a techie, and this is a moot point for about 90% of the computing population....so I'll grant you some credit.

As to your car analogy: not a very good likeness to computers. You don't need tires that handle Road 2008 - and even with the new features and safety features, neither the automobile nor the infrastructure they use have changed that much. Compare that today's computer - if you want to go on the internet, you can't do that with a computer made in the 80s or even most of the 90s. If you want to run the latest OS - the same...you have to buy a new computer.

So yeah, if the car can still strap my ass into it and legally, reliably and safely get me where I need to go, it's pretty well good for me - but I'm not your average American consumer...I don't need a new car every two years!

Besides, try telling those folks with 1955 'vettes or 1965 Mustangs that their cars "have done their jobs" and should be junked!

And you know what? It would still work for that...and there are some that do exactly that! Go into academia and you'll see what I mean. I had a professor about 7 years ago who still did all of his exams on an OLD computer running Word Perfect 5.1 and printing using a dot matrix printer. He didn't see the need to go spend money to upgrade while his old method worked just fine. So he kept with it.

You're right, if your needs change, get a new computer.

Agreed, a PC is NO different from a mac when it comes to 3 or four years down the road. The ONLY difference is that you can upgrade a PC piece-meal...which may or may NOT be cheaper in the long run, depending on what you upgrade. Yeah, a Video card today might be cheap...but oftentimes that leads to a new Mobo, CPU, and Memory....maybe a new Disk drive. What have you saved if you buy state-of-the-art components? You now have a fairly modern computer in a five-year-old case....bleah!

Trash that fucker & buy a new computer!

__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have.

GoogleMap Me

Willravel

I still use WriteNow. Google it.

Also, my computer is 4 years old (eMac with 1 Ghz PowerPC G4 processor and 1GB RAM) and it still keeps up. I could keep this probably another 2 years before it really does start falling behind.

Ustwo

Last time the Cubs made the playoffs, the company a friend worked for sold their season ticket play off seats for 5 times the cost of the season tickets.

Was that an investment?

Likewise if you sold that stock, would the company change direction? Does what you do with it really matter? No, you are not 'apple' you are just a guy with some stock.

Perhaps you should have disclosed that information before offering advice on a PC as well if you are a 'we'. Would you accept advice from someone on an issue if they had a financial stake in that advice?

But most importantly, lighten up Francis. After I posted I thought to myself, I bet he will say he has stock in the company and there you went. I'm not sure if Haliburton is public stock, and I rather doubt Blackwater is but I'd love to get a couple of shares of both so I could use 'we' in tilted politics a lot.

But back to the topic at hand, the one issue not spoken of here has been price.

About 6 months ago I put together a 'uber' top of the line system with every bell and whistle possible, minus the quad core, only got the dual, for about 3500. This was a spare no expense machine with a terrabyte of HD, 4 gig top of the line ultra fast ram, geforce 8800 gtx (or whatever the better one is, I forget) video etc, fastest motherboard in exsistance, blah blah blah. Its a beast. At the time the closest thing I could find in a mac was about 5500.

I also put together a more reasonable system for my wife (AMD) which is still very nice for about $1000. Comparable mac systems were about 2700 at the time.

So if price is part of the equation, I'd go with a PC.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

I didn't necessarily recommend a Mac, I listed it's strengths and even some of it's weaknesses.

And it's unethical to promote to a consumer something they don't want or need, despite what you're manager at Circuit City said when you were in high school.

As for you insinuating I don't have stock in Apple, despite the fact that I've posted as such going back at least one year: oh no! You don't believe me?! *gets in fetal position in the corner and recalls how for some reason you're a dentist who is an expert about global warming*

/end threadjack, seriously


Hydra, what applications do you usually use? Also, are you willing to invest a lot of money, or do you have a budget of some kind? There are ways to make a windows machine run similarly to a Mac, and for a lot less money.

Lasereth

I don't care what computer you're using, if it has 1 GB of ram then it's gonna run and run GREAT 5 years from now.

No computer goes obsolete after 3-4 years. Outdated? Yes, but obsolete is a stretch. As long as your PC has enough ram it will never be obsolete unless you want to game it up. Even gaming PCs don't go obsolete that quickly. A mid to top of the line PC for gaming needs to be upgraded about every 3 years. And only if you want games to run on medium to high settings at a good resolution.

The ram is the bread winner and directly proportional to how well a non-gaming system runs.


BTW a PC from 1998 is almost 10 years old. Yes it's obsolete. You're talking about 3-4 years though, a huge stretch from almost 10 years. Buy a PC or Mac with a good amount of ram and it will last as long as you need it to (put 512 MB of ram in an AMD K62 400 MHz and it will run Windows XP fine with it being 10 years old.

Hydra1978

Well, the most i'm going to be using this new computer will be for The net, School work, Music/Video's and such.
Most likely not gaming.......except Starcraft 2, but that will be released for both.

Money is not really the issue right now as far as I'm concerned. I just want something that I don't have to mess with anymore because I just don't have the time.

__________________
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful. I have so many other attributes to hate me for!

ScottKuma

If you have no other impeding reasons (large investments in PC software, non-standard hardware, etc.) I'd recommend the mac AS LONG AS your school provides support for Apple as well as PCs and your curriculum doesn't require PCs: for example, you're learning programming from a PC perspective, or using languages that are PC-centric, like Visual Basic.

__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have.

GoogleMap Me

Cynthetiq

I could also include for other readers, that the same applies for your place of work.

VPN connectivity doesn't work as simply to Macs depending on the infrastructure. Also there may be applications even though web based that are coded in a manner that doesn't support Safari or Firefox. (Something I'm currently contending with as costs for cross platform functionality are much higher for development than just single browser/platform.)

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

telekinetic

So, I just bought a 24" Imac, and does anyone have a reason why fonts and web pages with fonts look absolutely bloody fucking AMAZING compared to on the PC? I'm baffled.