sweet release

we've got 1 for the ladies, but what about us.



just feel so left out

__________________
These Stories don't mean anything if you've got no-one to tell them to.


I know you feel like the walls are closing in on you, it's hard to find release and people can be so cold.

Cynthetiq

It's been talked and discussed before. There isn't anything added by adding one. If I could is remove the ladies lounge because the original purpose conflicts with a basic premise of everyone here being equal.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jetée

This is a yearly suggestion, and most often than not, you'll receive a response along the lines of "the entire forum is already catered to and regarding men and our issues / interests , so there is no real reason to have a specific smoker's lounge, just to have one".

I think there's also an allusion to real societal life in there, but I'm trying to keep this short, and most likely, you didn't care after I said basically, this is not a new / gonna-happen-anytime-forever suggestion.

Just for sake of keeping your attention: what would be your first order of attention if we were to receive a "Men's Lounge"? What sort of dialogue would you strike up there, which you could not find another venue elsewhere to discuss?

Solely wondering why you want what you do not have, but yeah, really, you already got it. It's here; it's us; the TFP is a men's lounge already, with an additional backroom "Ladies' Room" to boot. What's not to like?

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Baraka_Guru

It's not merely this. It is also the fact that the usage of a men's lounge would either be misguided or otherwise underused to the point of it not being useful.

That it would seem the forum "caters to and is regarding men, etc." is a bit misleading. The function of a mens forum could serve as a mirror to the ladies forum where they could talk about issues that might otherwise be a touchy subject if women were involved—topics like men's health (prostate, men's sexuality, etc.), men's issues that are somewhat of a stigma (depression, child custody, child support, victims of abuse, etc.), or simply a place where they could talk about relationships without worrying about women coming in and criticizing their views or beliefs.

This is not to say there isn't value in such a forum. But, alas, this is the Internet. General forums aren't the place for that sort of thing. The risk is high for such a forum to get 4chan'd or otherwise ridiculed and abused. (Men are so immature, you know....)

If men want such an environment, there are plenty of forums geared specifically toward the specific topics I mentioned. Root around; they're out there. I'm sure you can find one that's well moderated....keeping things serious.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

The_Jazz

We don't like creating specific forums that don't get much use (see the debacle of Tilted Pets). We're probably 60+% male here, and I've yet to see a discussion created where a guy specifically asked women not to respond - with a exception a few years ago where a gay guy had a question.

In other words, if you REALLY don't want the women to respond, just say so. Just realize that you're probably losing out on some very good advice.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Jetée

Thanks for the additional expansion assist, B_G.

That was my initial gist, but I'm trying to conserve my word usage now, and I don't know if people (re: anyone) still appreciates my penchant for elucidating and adding (ir)relevant context to any one question / term of the day.

I do remember an explanation along your same lines from the last thread we had regarding this idea, but it eludes me as to who originally authored the kinded thoughtform. (it also included the very good point brought about by The_Jazz above, about the question: "is there really a need to have a male-specific-only discussion?")

I'm not the savviest in the drawer of how to make my words make a point in any less than three paragraphs, so it does help to have such helpful moderators picking up my procrastinating penmanship of declarations.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

roachboy

uh...yeah. frankly, i expect that the idea of a men's forum would be treated differently if it came in the form of a positive request (i want to address range of questions x...z but don't feel comfortable with it being generally accessible) than it has been when the rationale is "i feel left out."

just saying.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Jinn

RIP TILTED PETS

also, the whole world is a 'men's lounge'.. so there's that.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Baraka_Guru

You clearly haven't worked on an English degree. Actually, universities in general are becoming more of a "ladies lounge"—at least in Canada.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Jinn

I was alluding to Male privilege .. certainly there are more women attending a University than in the past, but that isn't saying much..

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

roachboy

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

I see. But let's not forget that women are gradually earning their own sets of privileges. The 20th century was big. Now the arena of change is even greater. It's not just that more women are attending university than in the past, it's that a majority of university students are now women, and the trend is still growing. I've seen numbers over 60% of the student population (Canada's university-aged males outnumber the university-aged females, but are both at approximately 50% each).

We need more threads on gender issues.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

StanT

I see the ladies lounge as the forum where women can publicly whine about men without allowing a chance for rebuttal. Case in point:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/ladies-...so-spouse.html

I try to avoid a forum where my opinion is disallowed; but get caught up in "new posts" occasionally.

Plan9

60%? Heh. I'd say that it's more like 75%+ male here at TFP.

It's a friggin' sausage fest. Like all those college parties you guys went to back in '98.

dlish

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Plan9

Are those Halal?

Amaras

I don't see the point of a Men's lounge, as TFP is for all intents and purposes
already one. Just my 2 cents.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

Plan9

Mr. Sarcasm:

"Was it the bouncing tits everywhere or Bobby's car posts that clued you in?"

dlish

damn right they're halal!

geez if you could get halal beef-bacon these days, why cant you get halal snags?


on the other hand, the male equivelant of all those sausages is not!

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

noodle

This thread right here is why I don't like the Ladies Lounge sometimes.
But, I do appreciate being able to talk about a pain in my cervix or birth control side effects without some idiot (major male TFP contributors NOT included in that description) with little tact making an insensitive remark about the more sensitive parts of my anatomy. Some days, I just have an angry uterus.
But, I also have the sense not to mock circumcision, penile and erectile dysfunction, etc. because guy stuff is just as important.
I don't start threads in the Ladies Lounge often because I don't like excluding the majority of people around here. But I have contributed to the threads that I thought were interesting, important, or worth my two cents.

__________________

Plan9

I forget who said it but it's pertinent again:

"The LL is required because of douchebags: ladies that need advice on using them and the men that act like them around said ladies."

StanT

After 20+ years of cohabitating with my wife and daughters, a single mention of menstrual issues will have me racing for the back button. It's pretty much the "Does this make my butt look big" of the internet.

Birth control affects men, too. I swear that some of the pills my wife tried, actually worked by reducing her libido to zero. That might be an appropriate comment in the right context.

Separate, but equal usually isn't. I think you'd probably be better served by using the report to moderator function.

In any case, unless you are naked and pointing, dick jokes are always funny and usually appropriate.

Lindy

If TFP ever gets to the level where straight males can discuss anal sex from the point of view of the penetraTEE as well as the point of view of the penetraTOR, then the Ladies Lounge can be closed. I wonder what the chances are of us getting there?

Lindy
on the road...

Plan9

Wow, that's an incredibly arbitrary standard for maturity. Although I suppose the anal part fits TFP well.

"And if women were in control of their friggin' emotions, we wouldn't need a ladies' lounge!"

Pearl Trade

Is this like the women having to go through pregnancy and childbirth argument? Pearl Trade hates when he hears women argue that topic against males.

Oh yes, I did use the douche bag third person approach.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

The_Jazz

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

777

I don't know about a Men's Lounge. What about a MAN'S Lounge?

I'm reminded of a Robin Williams gag:

"Beer commercials usually show big men, manly men, doing manly things: 'You've just killed a small animal. It's time for a light beer.' Why not have a realistic beer commercial, with a realistic thing about beer, where someone goes, 'It's five o'clock in the morning. You've just pissed on a dumpster. It's Miller time.'"

__________________
"I don't know that I ever wanted greatness, on its own. It seems rather like wanting to be an engineer, rather than wanting to design something - or wanting to be a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip."

Roger Zelazny