NASCAR fan general discussion thread

[Borla]

I went to the Chicago race and listened to Junior the whole way (and listened to him win).....it was definitely entertainment!!



Like I said earlier, I'm just glad Gordon didn't make the cut. I like about half the field in the Chase (Smoke is my second fav. driver), so I'm not too picky as to where it goes from here. I almost think it'd be cool for one of the old timers (Wallace or Martin) won it.

[Mondak]

Gordon is such a Mary. All the blame for this shitty season he placed on the shoulders of everyone but himself after the race this week in which he was eliminated from the chase. Loser.

My favorite drivers are Mayfield and Newman anyway so that works out. I have to like a guy like Biffle since he has come down a long hard road to get here and this chance that most guys in his shoes would never see.

[ngdawg]

Today's race was almost comedic and very entertaining. Robby Gordon needs to be sent into the corner with a dunce cap for his childish display on the track after crashing out and I hope NASCAR doesn't turn their heads to it. Having the scanner on Michael Waltrip, his response (also played on tv) of "how rude! he wrecked his OWN car!" was quite a show of restraint considering he's also been known to get quite pissy. But a bouncing helmet, even though there was a caution out, is a safety hazard, childish and like Michael said, rude. Grow up, Robby...ever notice the drivers who say, 'yea, guess I messed up' are the ones with the bigger fan base? Kurt Busch, Robby Gordon, Dale Jarrett and Jeff Gordon need to go to take a class on 'how to accept responsibility'.....sheesh

[ngdawg]

From AOL sports today (yea, AOL, so? )

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (Sept. 19) - Robby Gordon and Kasey Kahne avoided suspensions Monday when NASCAR penalized them for road-rage incidents in New Hampshire.

Gordon was fined $35,000 and docked 50 points in the driver standings for intentionally trying to hit Michael Waltrip's car during Sunday's race at New Hampshire International Speedway, throwing his helmet at Waltrip's car, and cursing during a television interview.

Kahne was fined $25,000 and penalized 25 points in the standings for intentionally hitting Kyle Busch's car in retaliation for an earlier accident.

"There have been a growing number of incidents lately where drivers have taken matters into their own hands," NASCAR president Mike Helton said. "Such unsafe and inappropriate behavior has to stop.

"NASCAR will use whatever means necessary to stop it."

Waltrip was fined $10,000 and 25 points for using an obscene gesture during the televised broadcast, and his car owner, Teresa Earnhardt, was penalized 25 points.

Gordon and Kahne actually got off easy considering the harsh tone from NASCAR officials that hinted at suspensions following the accidents.

"We're going to do whatever we need to do, whether it's to park a guy for a week or park a guy for nine weeks," spokesman Jim Hunter said after the race. "We're going to do whatever we need to do to prevent retaliation on the racetrack."
Instead, Kahne and Gordon essentially got off with a slap on the hand.

For example, Busch Series driver Martin Truex Jr. was fined $10,000 and 25 points for using an obscene gesture earlier this month. Last season, Dale Earnhardt Jr. was fined $25,000 and 25 points for cursing in a television interview.

Jimmy Spencer was the last driver suspended, forced to sit out one race in 2003 for punching Kurt Busch after the two were in an accident. Kevin Harvick was "parked" for one race in 2002 when NASCAR did not allow him to compete in a Cup race at Martinsville, Va., as punishment for aggressive driving in a truck race the day before.

In addition to their penalties, both Kahne and Gordon were placed on probation until the end of the season and their car owners were also penalized. Ray Evernham, Kahne's car owner, was docked 25 points and Jim Smith, owner of Gordon's car, was docked 50 points.

This is the second consecutive year Gordon has gotten into trouble at New Hampshire. He intentionally wrecked Greg Biffle last year as retaliation, and the accident collected Chase contenders Tony Stewart and Jeremy Mayfield, effectively ending their championship hopes.

Although NASCAR did not penalize him, Gordon was placed on probation by then-car owner Richard Childress.

Gordon apologized Monday for cursing, but still blamed Waltrip for the accident.

"I let my emotions get the better of me and I apologize," he said. "I don't know what it is, but he puts the bumper to me a lot, and this time he did what he set out to do. We basically destroyed a great race car, and unfortunately it's the people that work in the shop that really suffer. We didn't deserve that at all."

Gordon and Waltrip wrecked under caution, and Gordon waited until Waltrip came past him and tried to back his car into him. He missed - but almost hit Stewart, who had to stop to avoid Gordon.

Gordon then got out of his car, waited for Waltrip, acted as if he was going to walk in front of Waltrip's car and threw his helmet at him. It hit just below the driver's window.
Kahne's accident came midway through the race, when Busch bumped him and sent him hard into the wall. Kahne restarted his battered car and drove it slowly along the bottom of the track until Busch came by in turn one. Kahne then shot up the track, hitting Busch in the left front.

NASCAR parked him for the rest of the race, but Kahne was unapologetic.

"I accept responsibility for my actions and will, in the future, channel the competitive energy and emotion that my team and I share toward productive results on the racetrack for Evernham Motorsports, our sponsors and fans," Kahne said Monday. "This is behind us now. As a team, our focus is on the upcoming events and the future."

Also, Lance McGrew, crew chief for Brian Vickers, was fined $10,000 and placed on probation for the remainder of the year because their car failed prerace inspection. Vickers also was penalized 25 driver points and car owner Mary Hendrick was penalized 25 points.

[laconic1]

I really might just have to spring for cable tv since NBC doesn't seem half as interested as Fox did in having the races on network tv. I've missed about the last 5 races now since I either didn't have cable or was at the local short track during the Cup races held on Saturday nights

[Mondak]

Fox is way better with the coverage as well.

I can't believe that Kahne got off with only that. Busch called it right: he is the Nascar poster child. He is offically on my shit list now.

One other thought - I enjoy the tirades to some degree from Robbie Gordon, but really if it weren't for racing, do you think he would be a murderer or something?

[ngdawg]

Yea, Fox definitely had it right. Loved the 'let's crank it up' and DW's commentary. Those guys didn't feel the need to continuously speak for 4 hours and when they'd say 'crank it up', I'd max out the volume
Robby Gordon should have been made to sit out a couple of races, as should have Kahne. Waltrip's fine for flashing the finger seems out of step with what those two did. On the other hand, go to any track and see how many line up to buy Robby Gordon gear as opposed to Waltrip's. I'm betting Gordon's collects more dust than cash.

[Craven Morehead]

Hey, racefans, now is your chance to help the victims of Katrina as you add to your racing memorabilia collection. Bid on the most famous helmet, ever. Robby Gordon has his for sale on ebay

Just be prepared to crack open your piggy bank.

[ngdawg]

Quote: 'Obviously I’m still angry about getting wrecked intentionally...'

Nice try, Gordon, but you're still a moron.....just an attempt to get people to say 'oh, he's not that bad' and win a few brownie points to replace the ones NASCAR took from him for his spoiled-brat behavior.

[ngdawg]

Well, someone messed up. The item was pulled. Bids were hitting 9mil, probably made by some irate Waltrip fans, negating the whole thing. Nascar has an article about the original offer, but nothing yet as to why it was pulled.

[ngdawg]

Mark Martin wins finally!!!! After coming so damned close too many times, Martin clinched his first win since June, 2004!!!
So, we've had long-time veterans two weeks in a row---can Rusty Wallace make it 3 next week?

[ngdawg]

Time to revive!!!
Oy! Have I got a list of observations so far, too!
Anyone else notice that without that cheater, Chad Knaus, Jimmie Johnson CAN actually drive?? Knaus' first race back after his millionth(ok, slight exageration) suspension and his driver totally BORKS it! And Knaus won't learn-he'll just try to be sneakier
The Busch boys are two of the biggest poopyheads ever. But they win. WTF?
Lil Shrub can't pit (I swear he's gonna run over someone at some point), he seems to have a depth perception deficiancy and his dorkiness in public is like nails on a chalkboard. His brother gets even dorkier in his attempt to be 'likable'. The crowd during the driver introduction parade was embarrassingly evil towards both-the Boos!!! Wrestling fans don't boo that loud!!! I really felt kind of bad for them both-they're so disliked, even their merchandise trailers are totally devoid of customers. And then they win! As we were leaving the track after Sunday's race, the whole place reverberated with the jeers when Kurt Busch was introduced as the winner.
Michael Waltrip. There's someone I would not kick out of bed for eating crackers, but he really needs some pitcrew cooperation or something. He's too nice, first off. Unless he's pissed off, but that doesn't happen often-I use the scanners every week and only once have I heard him get mad. Yesterday, he was so discouraged that, after he tapped into that last wreck and his Crew Chief asked if he wanted 'the rubber replaced', Michael responded, "whatever. doesn't make much difference now." On the other hand, he's funny as hell, even when down. For example: "gordy, you look like a 20 year old sittin up there.....then again, you act like one too, so I guess it kinda works out..." I love mikey.
Anyone else notice Tony's old persona sneaking in and Harvick trying to be Mr. Jolly? It'll be interesting to see how these personality changes affect performance.
Jr's trying so hard. He's also having more fun. Personally, I think he's stretched a bit thin with outside interests, but we shall see. So far, his changes are paying off, albeit slowly.
Matt Kenseth will be a force to be reckoned with or he will fade to black. His strength came in the second half of last season. It was noted he either barely finishes or finishes in the top 10 or wins-there's no in-between and it looks like he'll be even stronger this year.
I like Martin Truex and not just because he's a Jersey boy. People need to cut him some slack. But there seems to be an initiation he has to get through, meaning the big boys are gonna push him around. I think he'll do fine.

[Mondak]

Jeff Gorden is a loser. I like how tough he was going after Kenseth with his helmet on. Ghey.

As far as Kurt Busch's win this week - Bristol is a tough place where they jam 43 cars on a half mile track. Kenseth needed to be agressive and get by Jarrett and he gave him plenty of chances. Yeah - he got under him but really - that is Bristol. You have to be agressive there.

Good season so far. The Bristol races are my favorite each year though. Sort of falls off for me until August.

[ngdawg]

Bristol is very tough-passing is almost impossible; I've seen country roads wider. Busch won because he pushed Kenseth...we thought Kenseth had won, then looked at the toteboard and went WTF??? Bristol is SO fast, you miss the details, even though from where we sit, we can see the entire racetrack (just left of start/finish line, 35th row).
Tapping, pushing, etc. is part of the sport, but when that finish line is visible, it should NOT be allowed. It's dirty play and when one gets away with it, they all want to do it. Final lap, drive clean. If you have to play games like that to get a damned trophy, go back to high school. No one is gonna win fans with that kind of crap.
/me steps off soapbox

[Mondak]

It was not the final lap at all. In fact, it was at least 10 to go if not more. On the final lap, Kenseth wrecked Gordan (who has bumped him the lap before).

So you were THERE? How do you swing that? I hear it is hell getting in and out of Bristol for that race.

[ngdawg]

Told ya it went too fast to know! We never actually saw Busch do that-first Kenseth was leading, then he wasn't Saw what happened to Gordon, more or less...saw him lose it toward pit road, then next thing we know, winner was declared. 10 laps is less than 2 minutes(18 seconds per lap)..if we're looking at one turn and something happens at another, we generally miss it and have to watch the replay. While I was watching up at turn one, my friend was looking over at turn 4, sees Jr. almost lose it, next thing we know, #10 brings out the caution and neither of us saw why until after he came to a stop! In the time it took for her to go 'OO! OO!' for Jr, #10 was crashing.
My best friend has had season tickets for years. She lives 2 miles from the track. We even drove it almost 3 years ago, my beginning to ruin....

[laconic1]

As a Kenseth fan I really wasn't too terribly disappointed about him not winning, at least I wasn't as disappointed as I was after Vegas. I was amazed by the save Matt made when FELF dumped him. And FELF did dump him, not just giving him the chrome horn. One of the tv replays showed the front bumper crinkling up during the shove. Just giving somebody the chrome horn doesnt bash your bumper up. I laughed when Matt spun Gordon, it helped out in the fantasy league I'm in with some friends.
The difference between Matt this year and last year is last year Matt would run good, have some back luck and finish 35th after running up front all day. This year Matt runs good, has some bad luck and still finishes 15th.

[ngdawg]

Jr. freakin amazed me today!! From a low of 42nd to end in 4th!!!! If he hadn't wrecked twice, I truly think he may have won. The commentators mentioned the possibility that his fender being off and back bumper wrecked actually helped his car. But his second hit hurt it. And I love having the radio on the pc.
Jr: (after getting cut off by #12 and hit the inside wall)-I'm gonna punch him in the fucking mouth!! That was ridiculous.
Tony Jr: Steering ok, June?
Jr: NO!!!! It's NOT ok. *lots of static* Took a while for the crew to calm him down.
Later on:
Jr: After this race, I'm gonna want a bottle
Tony, Jr: 10-4. You want a nipple on that?
Jr: I'm gonna need oxygen. I plan on raising some hell tonight.
Congrats to Smoke for holding off girly-man Looks like it is going to be a very interesting chase this year!

[laconic1]

Today's race was good. Too bad about Kenseths brake problem with 7 laps to go. Probably would have been smart for him to just stop where the car was wrecked once he knew they were done so he wouldn't oil down the track but it happens. Today kicked my ass in the Yahoo fantasy league I'm in. I had Tony Stewart, which was good, and had Kasey Kahne, Denny Hamlin, and Ken Schrader as my other picks. D'oh!!

[ngdawg]

Damn! Talk about your long-shots!

'twas funny-took my car over to my kids' youth group carwash fundraiser, the man helping out says 'We can't dry this car, it's got a #8 on it"...as the two girls were drying the front of my car, I revved it nice and loud-scared the shit out of them Then went home and put my nice BIG #8 on the now clean back window with #55 under that. Too bad wearing my new Waltrip shirt didn't help Mikey a bit....I'm thinking they need a new engineer in that garage.
Yea, I felt bad for Kenseth. Lot of brake problems at that track. Mikey was losing his too and a couple of others I can't recall were having brake issues.

[ngdawg]

The Coca-Cola 600 at Lowe's is too long....almost 5 hours. Having said that, it was a damn good race.
Anyone have any thoughts about Michael Waltrip buying his way into the race by virtue of purchasing Cope's qualifying? His team rewrapped the car as #55, refitted it to fit his 6'5" frame and hit the track. Unfortunately for Michael, he lost his brakes fairly early on and did not come back out.
Which brings me to the next question. Later on in the race, Harvick lost his transmission due to heat build up from a cracked exhaust. Pulling in to the garage, his team had the tranny and the broken exhaust replaced in just 11 minutes and he was back on the track, but 27 laps down. Personally, I think any more than 2 laps down (which seems impossible to make up), take the DNF as part of your record, but pride and numbers won't allow that.
Should they be allowed back out if more than 2 laps down?

[laconic1]

Absolutely they should be able to go back out if they can run a competitive speed and not cause problems for other people. I don't see any reason why someone should park their car if they have a readily fixable mechanical issue such as a transmission or electrical problem or something like that. Now crashed cars going back out is another story. I don't like that since wrecked cars tend to shed parts (remember Robby Gordon's hood flying into the stands at Daytona a couple of years ago). Also in the thrash to put the car back together it is easy to miss or overlook a damaged part that can fail once put under racing stress again, causing another crash as bad as or worse than the first wreck.
As far as Mikey goes, he is in a transition year waiting for Toyota. Dodge isn't helping his team at all, in fact Dodge just won a lawsuit to the tune of over $6 million against Bill Davis Racing. I just laughed when I saw Mikey DNQ, and knew he'd buy a ride, just like he bought his way into the first 5 races this year. He's not the first guy to do it and certainly won't be the last. I was surprised it took him as long as it did to miss a race. Really though I dislike Mikey. He never shuts up, you could loop a 1 minute recording of Mikey saying "NAPA, Aaron's, Dominos Pizza, Klaussner, Best Western, Coca-Cola" and not be able to tell the difference from listening to him talk live or give an interview.

[ngdawg]

That is true of every driver, though.
"Yea, our DuPontPepsiQuakerStateTyvekMonte Carlo was a little loose in turn 3, but if we hadn't have lost the drive shaft coming out of turn 1, I really believe that DuPontPepsiQuakerStateTyvekMonteCarlo would have won".
Every sponsor spends from $2-18 million a year PER team.
Mikey and Kenny Wallace have each made jokes about their sponsor-plugging, ie; "oops-hold on there, gotta show the label" as they swig from their drink. Mikey has apologized for doing the sponsorsponsorsponsor during interviews, explaining, it's the sport, gotta get it in there. Every one of them does commercials, public appearances and their trailers all have sponsor-based merchandise.
I really get more annoyed at that big screen in front of the commentators with some sponsor's logo glaring out.
I agree about putting out wrecked cars-shouldn't be done. Invariably after, there's 'debris cautions'. And, you don't see it on tv, because they're usually so far back as to not warrant air time, but some of those wrecks they put back out are minus a LOT of major parts-hoods, bumpers, fenders....they'd have lost in demolition derbies, but there they are going over 100mph with half a car left.

[nrclark]

Today they posted a question on the broadcast, "do you think they should add a road-course race to the chase"?

Personally i dont like watching road course racing, (thats why im not an F-1 fan), but i do think that for the sake of the chase, they should throw a Sonoma or a Watkins Glen in there ...

Whats your take?

[ngdawg]

On the one hand, I agree. They do...what? 3 or 4 now as it is? So why not add one.
On the other hand, they're not completely in their element on road courses, it seems.
The cars don't perform well (according to listening to the radios online), there's more
silly mistakes (Jimmie Johnson did a find job though of saving his butt doing that 360), the tension between drivers is higher....
This weekend was the 100th road course in NASCAR's history-a small number compared to overall. Perhaps in a year or two they should add one to the cup chase.
Let's not forget the bulk of the drivers are under 40 with more than half under 35-there's not much experience there either.

[nrclark]

But, wouldn't it be a great way for them to get some experience?
I just dont think they, (road courses), are as fun to watch as cars going 190mph inches apart ...
I also agree on the save by jimmy, perfect 360! ... but wasn't he "punted"?
p.s.
I'm in a pool and i have to make a trade ... who would you trade for jeff burton? ... jamie mcmurray / elliot s. / or vickers?

[paddyjoe]

Originally Posted by ngdawg

They do...what? 3 or 4 now as it is?

I know of two, which are the other ones?

[laconic1]

Originally Posted by nrclark

But, wouldn't it be a great way for them to get some experience?
I just dont think they, (road courses), are as fun to watch as cars going 190mph inches apart ...
I also agree on the save by jimmy, perfect 360! ... but wasn't he "punted"?
p.s.
I'm in a pool and i have to make a trade ... who would you trade for jeff burton? ... jamie mcmurray / elliot s. / or vickers?

I'd go Vickers right now, McMurray and Sadler both seem to be going the wrong way.

I don't know about the road courses. I like them but the courses have already been Nascarized to a point where they aren't the way they used to be. Sears Point was reconfigured and shortened by half a mile about 6 or 7 years ago, and they dont use the entire circuit at Watkins Glen that the true road racing leagues use when they go there. I don't see a lot of benefit to them. I guess it costs less than plate racing, but they were also saying during the broadcast that Cal Wells spent an extra $400,000 on his road course program this year. That is a ton of money for a small team.

[Borla]

Considering what he did tonight after he won the race, I guess Tony's shoulder is better, eh?

[nrclark]

What a borrrring race ... i usually like the superspeedways, but this was a real snoozzzzer.
Glad to see Tony win (i got him in my pool), ... it was funny watchin the chubby fella climb the fence though, lol

[ngdawg]

Originally Posted by paddyjoe

I know of two, which are the other ones?

Sonoma, Watkins Glen and.... er ...well, hell, why'd the commentator last week say 4 during the season? Unless Busch series was included in that. *shrug*

[laconic1]

Man, what is it going to take for Mike Helton and Brian France to grow a pair and park Tony Stewart for a race or two? Goodness, he blatantly uses his car as a weapon and takes two guys out of the race and all he gets is a limp slap on the wrist for a penalty. When NASCAR parked Kevin Harvick at Martinsville in '02 they set a precedent that if you blatantly use your race car as a weapon you better be prepared to miss a race. Yet Tony has done more bad than Harvick and NASCAR keeps doing nothing. A one lap penalty is not a penalty when it is that early in the race and the guy receiving the penalty still has a fast car. Especially when you consider his victims are relegated to also-rans for the rest of the race. It would be nice if they sat him out at Indy, that is the only way Tony will learn, but it wont happen.

Just watched the post race interview with Tony, and there he goes again talking about how everybody needs to learn about give and take, and how he does all the giving and everyone else just takes. He is right. He is the one giving drivers body slams down the straightaway every time he gets pissy. He is the one giving drivers the finger when they pull along side him to ask WTF is he doing? They are the ones doing the taking, taking a tore up race car and lousy finish home. While Tony doesnt do any taking, like not taking responsibility for his actions.

[ngdawg]

When he was on top of his game last year and took the championship, he was Mister Nice Guy and built a fanbase as a result. Now he's last year's news and back to his old ways...I think he gets a huge head when he's on a winning streak and becomes a bastard when he isn't, somehow thinking he's owed something for taking the trophy.
Not only should he be at least on a close watch, Home Depot should once again threaten to drop him and mean it this time. Even his crew chief looked exasperated.
Having said that, a 'serves him right' for Edwards little trick, even though it got him blackflagged as well. Gee, Tony, you should have moved over, eh?
I feel SO bad for Jr....twice in a row an end of the pack finish for things not his fault at all and they leave him down 7 spots to 11th....shoulda been a Busch brother.
His radio transmission defied how he was feeling, "Heh...I just blew the engine..."
He and his crew also made jokes about Tony and Edwards getting into the ring for a few rounds...that Edwards was in better shape but Tony would probably take him out in 3-4 rounds...funny stuff.

[ngdawg]

Ok, race fans!! Who's bringing home that trophy to drink beer out of?
Can Jr. pull of about 2 wins and the rest top 5's? Will Johnson again be only second best? Will Kenseth actually celebrate something?
Could someone please knock that Busch kid to the back of the pack?

[laconic1]

Well the Chase field is set. I'm thrilled that Tony Stewart missed the Chase, although I'm sure the Stewart homer at my work will tell me all about how he got robbed or screwed. I'm glad my man Kenseth is going in as the points leader. It will be interesting to see who steps up, and who falls back. Harvick has been awful strong, and Junior has been good too. Hopefully Kenseth or Johnson will keep running strong enough to win the title that really is rightfully theirs.

Oh, and has anybody noticed the double standard NASCAR has for their superstars versus everyone else? First they park Kevin Lepage in the Bristol Busch race for bumping somebody under yellow after they wrecked him, then tonight they parked Jeff Green for bumping Jimmie Johnson under caution after Johnson wrecked him. And yet they don't have the balls to park Tony when he blatantly wrecks people at full speed.

[dksuddeth]

with the current field, it will be hard to tell but if martin and burton maintain their consistency I think it will come down to them two.