LINDNER SHELLS OUT MONEY CAN REDS COMPETE NOW - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pan6467 · 12-27-2004, 07:18 PM

Lindner finally shelled out some money. Granted it's only Randa and Milton, but uh huh uh-huh the REDS front office is showing more than the Indians (who seem to be close to signing Kevin Millwood, not bad, shame it's only 1 year though).

Actually, IMO, the Indians should have signed Milton and the REDS Millwood. MIllwood is by far a much better pitcher. But, who knows now, the REDS may surprise again and have a very formidable rotation of, Milton, Wilson, Ortiz, and a combo of Harang, Acevedo, Claussen and Bong. (My guess Acevedo and Claussen with Harang and Bong as long relievers.) A pretty decent pen... in a healthy Graves, Weber, Mercker, Wagner and Weathers.

The REDS still have one of the most potentially potent offenses in the NL. If healthy and living up to potential.....

C LaRue
1B Casey
2B Jimenez
SS Lopez
3B Randa
OF Kearns
OF JR
OF Dunn

With up-comers Freel and Pena ready in the wings or mid season trade bait for a July Surprise.

I am truly impressed with Lindner because while not a perfect team, he is at least trying to keep the REDS competitive and giving them a great chance to take the Central.

===================================================================

LINK: http://www.cleveland.com/sportsflash...ylist=baseball

Eric Milton signs $25.5M deal with Reds
12/27/2004, 6:08 p.m. ET
By JOE KAY
The Associated Press

CINCINNATI (AP) — The Yankees came calling on Eric Milton, willing to peel some bills out of their bulging money clip. The big-budget Red Sox and Dodgers also were interested in adding the left-hander to their playoff-caliber clubs.

In the end, he made a surprising choice: the late-arriving small-market Cincinnati Reds.

Milton agreed to a $25.5 million, three-year deal on Monday with a team that was late into the bidding and seemed an unlikely match for a pitcher who yearns to get back to the playoffs.

"I wouldn't be sitting here today if I didn't think we have a real chance of winning," Milton said.

The Reds think so, too, and were willing to structure his contract so he can leave if they don't win during his first two seasons. Milton got a $4 million signing bonus and base salaries of $4 million in 2005, $8.5 million in 2006 and $9 million in 2007, matching the total value of Matt Clement's deal with Boston.

After the 2006 season, Milton has the option of staying for the final year of the deal or going somewhere else.

"I want to be on a winner," Milton said. "That was a big key for me going into this whole free agent thing. I think this team is headed in the right direction now, and hopefully in the next couple of years we'll keep improving."

They've got a long way to go before they're a contender in the NL Central with the Cardinals, Astros and Cubs, but their moves in the past two weeks should make them much more competitive.

The Reds have gone four straight years without a winning season, their longest such stretch since 1945-55. They lost 93 games in 2003, their first season at Great American Ball Park, and cannibalized the team during a midseason trading spree to save money.

They were a little better last season, going 76-86 despite injuries that cost them Ken Griffey Jr., Austin Kearns and Sean Casey. The biggest problem was the pitching staff, which by most measures was the worst in franchise history. The Reds allowed a club-record 907 runs — most in the majors — and 236 homers, only three shy of the NL record.

Milton, 29, was Philadelphia's most consistent starter last season, going 14-6 with a 4.75 ERA. The Phillies decided not to offer salary arbitration to Milton, who made $9 million last season, and Kevin Millwood.

The Reds were one of the latecomers in talks with Milton, who was contacted by about six teams.

"I was very surprised," Milton said. "They had not been very active in the past."

Once they decided to go after him, they did it all-out. Casey, closer Danny Graves and starter Paul Wilson called Milton, and manager Dave Miley offered to drive down to his home in Florida for lunch.

"Things changed from week to week," Milton said. "New teams came up, and teams dropped out and went in different directions. Once they got into the mix, they were pretty relentless. It just made me feel really wanted, that's for sure."

Milton gives the Reds a proven left-hander in a rotation that desperately needed one. He went 71-57 with a 4.76 ERA in 200 appearances with Minnesota and Philadelphia, made the AL All-Star team in 2001, and went 1-0 with a 1.65 ERA with the Twins in the 2002 and 2003 playoffs.

Milton also pitched the fifth no-hitter in Twins' history on Sept. 11, 1999, striking out a career-high 13 Angels.

The Reds went into the offseason with a lot of holes to fill, especially on the pitching staff. Milton waited to see if they were serious about improving.

They kept Wilson, their top starter, by offering a two-year, $8.2 million deal, acquired right-handed starter Ramon Ortiz from Anaheim, and upgraded the bullpen with David Weathers, Ben Weber and Kent Mercker. They also filled their vacancy at third base by signing Joe Randa to a one-year, $2.15 million deal.

At that point, the Reds felt good about their chances of getting Milton, who wanted to play near the East Coast to be close to his Florida home. He was convinced.

"He did his homework," general manager Dan O'Brien said. "He had a pretty good idea about who and what we were all about. So with that in mind, we felt very good about our chances. We were very aggressive in our approach and pursuit."

EDITED: Tried Red for REDS but it was a bad combo hope lime is better.

Seandq · 12-27-2004, 07:20 PM

That color is horrible with my skin. Ouch.

Uh, they'll contend about as much as my Mets. Not that much.

pan6467 · 12-27-2004, 08:18 PM

I don't know looking at the "potential" lineups throughout the NL Cantral, there are a lot of holes on the other teams. The REDS may not have the pitching the Cubs do, but IF (HUGE IF) the REDS lineup stays healthy I don't see a team in the Central competing.

If anything with Kearns and Dunn up for Arbitration and Wily Mo ready and Freel maybe getting his chance, I could see Kearns or Dunn getting traded for another SP. The Braves need OF's badly, perhaps the REDS could work a deal Dunn for Thomson. The Pirates could come off Fogg or Wells for Dunn, Marlins might be talked out of Burnett or Beckett for Dunn... endless posibilities when you have the OF to spare.

The Mets now have the pitching but they seriously lack the lineup. Pitching wins the short series' but lineups win the divisions and get you to the championships..... unless you have a tremendous staff of SP. Perhaps the Mets would come off Zambrano for Dunn.

My hope is that the REDS can deal Dunn for homegrown Cincy boy Zach Day from the Expos/Nats/?.... still pissed that the Indians traded him for Bradley... but we did get Sizemore in that deal so it wasn't Shap's worst.

djtestudo · 12-27-2004, 10:22 PM

Milton's giving up 50 homers this year moving into that stadium.

If you are that desperate to trade Dunn (also known as "getting stupid"

) I think the Orioles might have some things to trade you, at least better then John Thomson, Victor Zambrano or Zach Day.

pan6467 · 12-28-2004, 07:11 AM

In my haste I made a mistake, trade Kearns is who I meant. Trading a 40+ HR guy wouldn't be smart. Kearns has that potential but I'd prefer keeping Dunn and Pena over Kearns.

dylanmarsh · 12-28-2004, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

In my haste I made a mistake, trade Kearns is who I meant. Trading a 40+ HR guy wouldn't be smart. Kearns has that potential but I'd prefer keeping Dunn and Pena over Kearns.

I think you'd have better luck bringing back Chris Sabo or Nick Esasky or even Billy Hatcher than expecting a full productive year out of Wily Mo. He reminds me of a young Jack Clark minus the race cars, alcohol and bankruptcy.

pan6467 · 12-28-2004, 07:27 AM

They said the same about Albert (Joey) Belle, but he produced quite nicely for a few years after rehab.

Not saying Wily will be a Belle but I can se him giving a good year or 2 in then getting traded for something decent.

If you truly want to get rid of Wily, right now, not many will bite on Pena, so keep him let him produce a little show that he has talent then dump him ASAP. Someone stupid will watch him for this season and if he produces will be dumb enough to trade for him. IE John Hart in Texas.

Dylan I am impressed in your knowledge of old REDS players.

I'd take a SABO anyday, that kid had heart. Wasn't great but gave it his all.

dylanmarsh · 12-28-2004, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

I'd take a SABO anyday, that kid had heart. Wasn't great but gave it his all.

The last of the great "eye goggle" players of the late 80's. Gagne is trying to make it trendy, again, but no one else is playing along.

BTW, being a Reds fan, are you insanely disappointed with Junior's "production" since he came to Cincy? He almost seems to carry a Bonds sort of attitude nowadays. Pretty sad.

pan6467 · 12-28-2004, 09:01 AM

I love JR and dislike him to some degree.

Love him that he wanted to play in Cincy and worked with them (he could have demanded a lot more and the FO was in a jam, how could they NOT sign the "best player" at the time?).

I think his problem is he came to Cincy thinking everyone was going to love him and worship him like a Pete Rose or Johnny Bench, and when he realized that wasn't going to happen he got his feelings hurt, and tried too hard thus the injuries truly started and it has kind of spiraled out of control and turned into a true love-hate relationship. I think Cincy's media is a little too harsh on him.

I see JR if healthy and playing like he did a few years ago, being praised. However, if he gets injured again this year I look for him to be traded fast..... I think Lindner will even eat part of his contract. That perhaps might be the best thing for both sides.

I think if JR is healthy noone can play better. He's still young enough to turn it around, he just has to find his smile again and that desire to be the best. Can he do that, in Cincy? Hopefully, if not, I'm sure someone will come off a few good prospects and a marquee player for him.

12-27-2004, 07:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	LINDNER SHELLS OUT MONEY CAN REDS COMPETE NOW Lindner finally shelled out some money. Granted it's only Randa and Milton, but uh huh uh-huh the REDS front office is showing more than the Indians (who seem to be close to signing Kevin Millwood, not bad, shame it's only 1 year though). Actually, IMO, the Indians should have signed Milton and the REDS Millwood. MIllwood is by far a much better pitcher. But, who knows now, the REDS may surprise again and have a very formidable rotation of, Milton, Wilson, Ortiz, and a combo of Harang, Acevedo, Claussen and Bong. (My guess Acevedo and Claussen with Harang and Bong as long relievers.) A pretty decent pen... in a healthy Graves, Weber, Mercker, Wagner and Weathers. The REDS still have one of the most potentially potent offenses in the NL. If healthy and living up to potential..... C LaRue 1B Casey 2B Jimenez SS Lopez 3B Randa OF Kearns OF JR OF Dunn With up-comers Freel and Pena ready in the wings or mid season trade bait for a July Surprise. I am truly impressed with Lindner because while not a perfect team, he is at least trying to keep the REDS competitive and giving them a great chance to take the Central. =================================================================== LINK: http://www.cleveland.com/sportsflash...ylist=baseball Eric Milton signs $25.5M deal with Reds 12/27/2004, 6:08 p.m. ET By JOE KAY The Associated Press CINCINNATI (AP) — The Yankees came calling on Eric Milton, willing to peel some bills out of their bulging money clip. The big-budget Red Sox and Dodgers also were interested in adding the left-hander to their playoff-caliber clubs. In the end, he made a surprising choice: the late-arriving small-market Cincinnati Reds. Milton agreed to a $25.5 million, three-year deal on Monday with a team that was late into the bidding and seemed an unlikely match for a pitcher who yearns to get back to the playoffs. "I wouldn't be sitting here today if I didn't think we have a real chance of winning," Milton said. The Reds think so, too, and were willing to structure his contract so he can leave if they don't win during his first two seasons. Milton got a $4 million signing bonus and base salaries of $4 million in 2005, $8.5 million in 2006 and $9 million in 2007, matching the total value of Matt Clement's deal with Boston. After the 2006 season, Milton has the option of staying for the final year of the deal or going somewhere else. "I want to be on a winner," Milton said. "That was a big key for me going into this whole free agent thing. I think this team is headed in the right direction now, and hopefully in the next couple of years we'll keep improving." They've got a long way to go before they're a contender in the NL Central with the Cardinals, Astros and Cubs, but their moves in the past two weeks should make them much more competitive. The Reds have gone four straight years without a winning season, their longest such stretch since 1945-55. They lost 93 games in 2003, their first season at Great American Ball Park, and cannibalized the team during a midseason trading spree to save money. They were a little better last season, going 76-86 despite injuries that cost them Ken Griffey Jr., Austin Kearns and Sean Casey. The biggest problem was the pitching staff, which by most measures was the worst in franchise history. The Reds allowed a club-record 907 runs — most in the majors — and 236 homers, only three shy of the NL record. Milton, 29, was Philadelphia's most consistent starter last season, going 14-6 with a 4.75 ERA. The Phillies decided not to offer salary arbitration to Milton, who made $9 million last season, and Kevin Millwood. The Reds were one of the latecomers in talks with Milton, who was contacted by about six teams. "I was very surprised," Milton said. "They had not been very active in the past." Once they decided to go after him, they did it all-out. Casey, closer Danny Graves and starter Paul Wilson called Milton, and manager Dave Miley offered to drive down to his home in Florida for lunch. "Things changed from week to week," Milton said. "New teams came up, and teams dropped out and went in different directions. Once they got into the mix, they were pretty relentless. It just made me feel really wanted, that's for sure." Milton gives the Reds a proven left-hander in a rotation that desperately needed one. He went 71-57 with a 4.76 ERA in 200 appearances with Minnesota and Philadelphia, made the AL All-Star team in 2001, and went 1-0 with a 1.65 ERA with the Twins in the 2002 and 2003 playoffs. Milton also pitched the fifth no-hitter in Twins' history on Sept. 11, 1999, striking out a career-high 13 Angels. The Reds went into the offseason with a lot of holes to fill, especially on the pitching staff. Milton waited to see if they were serious about improving. They kept Wilson, their top starter, by offering a two-year, $8.2 million deal, acquired right-handed starter Ramon Ortiz from Anaheim, and upgraded the bullpen with David Weathers, Ben Weber and Kent Mercker. They also filled their vacancy at third base by signing Joe Randa to a one-year, $2.15 million deal. At that point, the Reds felt good about their chances of getting Milton, who wanted to play near the East Coast to be close to his Florida home. He was convinced. "He did his homework," general manager Dan O'Brien said. "He had a pretty good idea about who and what we were all about. So with that in mind, we felt very good about our chances. We were very aggressive in our approach and pursuit." EDITED: Tried Red for REDS but it was a bad combo hope lime is better. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-27-2004 at 07:40 PM..

12-27-2004, 08:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I don't know looking at the "potential" lineups throughout the NL Cantral, there are a lot of holes on the other teams. The REDS may not have the pitching the Cubs do, but IF (HUGE IF) the REDS lineup stays healthy I don't see a team in the Central competing. If anything with Kearns and Dunn up for Arbitration and Wily Mo ready and Freel maybe getting his chance, I could see Kearns or Dunn getting traded for another SP. The Braves need OF's badly, perhaps the REDS could work a deal Dunn for Thomson. The Pirates could come off Fogg or Wells for Dunn, Marlins might be talked out of Burnett or Beckett for Dunn... endless posibilities when you have the OF to spare. The Mets now have the pitching but they seriously lack the lineup. Pitching wins the short series' but lineups win the divisions and get you to the championships..... unless you have a tremendous staff of SP. Perhaps the Mets would come off Zambrano for Dunn. My hope is that the REDS can deal Dunn for homegrown Cincy boy Zach Day from the Expos/Nats/?.... still pissed that the Indians traded him for Bradley... but we did get Sizemore in that deal so it wasn't Shap's worst. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-27-2004 at 09:28 PM..

12-27-2004, 10:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Milton's giving up 50 homers this year moving into that stadium. If you are that desperate to trade Dunn (also known as "getting stupid" ) I think the Orioles might have some things to trade you, at least better then John Thomson, Victor Zambrano or Zach Day. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

12-28-2004, 07:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	In my haste I made a mistake, trade Kearns is who I meant. Trading a 40+ HR guy wouldn't be smart. Kearns has that potential but I'd prefer keeping Dunn and Pena over Kearns. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

12-28-2004, 07:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	They said the same about Albert (Joey) Belle, but he produced quite nicely for a few years after rehab. Not saying Wily will be a Belle but I can se him giving a good year or 2 in then getting traded for something decent. If you truly want to get rid of Wily, right now, not many will bite on Pena, so keep him let him produce a little show that he has talent then dump him ASAP. Someone stupid will watch him for this season and if he produces will be dumb enough to trade for him. IE John Hart in Texas. Dylan I am impressed in your knowledge of old REDS players. I'd take a SABO anyday, that kid had heart. Wasn't great but gave it his all. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-28-2004 at 07:29 AM..

12-27-2004, 07:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
Seandq Tilted Location: Orlando, FL	That color is horrible with my skin. Ouch. Uh, they'll contend about as much as my Mets. Not that much.

12-28-2004, 09:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I love JR and dislike him to some degree. Love him that he wanted to play in Cincy and worked with them (he could have demanded a lot more and the FO was in a jam, how could they NOT sign the "best player" at the time?). I think his problem is he came to Cincy thinking everyone was going to love him and worship him like a Pete Rose or Johnny Bench, and when he realized that wasn't going to happen he got his feelings hurt, and tried too hard thus the injuries truly started and it has kind of spiraled out of control and turned into a true love-hate relationship. I think Cincy's media is a little too harsh on him. I see JR if healthy and playing like he did a few years ago, being praised. However, if he gets injured again this year I look for him to be traded fast..... I think Lindner will even eat part of his contract. That perhaps might be the best thing for both sides. I think if JR is healthy noone can play better. He's still young enough to turn it around, he just has to find his smile again and that desire to be the best. Can he do that, in Cincy? Hopefully, if not, I'm sure someone will come off a few good prospects and a marquee player for him. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"