Ace_O_Spades

I'm really kinda tired of hearing Atlanta as being contenders now that T.O. is out... Not on these forums, but in the media.

They had the easiest schedule, It's painful to look at.

Let's break it down shall we: I'll put their opponents record over to the right

Opponent Time/Result

@San Francisco Won 21-19 Opponent: 2-12
St. Louis Won 34-17 Opponent: 6-8
Arizona Won 6-3 Opponent: 5-9
@Carolina Won 27-10 Opponent: 6-8
Detroit Lost 10-17 Opponent: 5-9
San Diego Won 21-20 Opponent: 11-3 <- exception!
@Kansas City Lost 10-56 Opponent: 6-8
@Denver Won 41-28 Opponent: 8-6
Week 9 BYE
Tampa Bay Won 24-14 Opponent: 5-9
@N.Y. Giants Won 14-10 Opponent: 5-9
New Orleans Won 24-21 Opponent: 6-8
@Tampa Bay Lost 0-27 Opponent: 5-9
Oakland Won 35-10 Opponent: 5-9
Carolina Won 34-31 Opponent: 6-8

total opponent win/loss: 81 - 115, 70 - 112 if you take away the Chargers game

I really hope they get exposed in the post-season...

comments?

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Feh.

Shpoop

i agree...every falcons game i watched it seemed like they got lucky and squeaked out a win. i know they played some good games, but none that i saw. i just dont think they have the consistency or the confidence to go deep in the playoffs

Rdr4evr

Over-rated indeed. I stated the same thing in this thread: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=78947

Ace_O_Spades

Yeah I saw that Rdr4evr, it's also what inspired me to make this thread.

I thought they were so over rated that they needed their own thread proclaiming it

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Feh.

Spartak

Putting Vick in a "West Coast" system with those five turnstiles in front of him is like putting the Mona Lisa in the toilet and then using it for toilet paper.

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grayman

I'm pretty sure the point of installing the West Coast offense was to plan for a similar situation to last year. Because Vick's "playbook" consists of one play, when he got hurt for an extended period last year no one on the offense knew any plays and they had to hurriedly install a brand new offense in a very short time. I think that both Johnson and Kittner got bad raps last year because they were playing behind a line that is designed not to block and with an offense that had just gotten a brand new playbook only a couple weeks before. I'm not saying those guys are great, but very few traditional pocket qb's could suceed in the Falcons' system from last year.
When Mora came in, he realized that the way Vick plays will get him hurt, they should plan for similar situations. They tried to get another scrambling backup and couldn't (is Seneca Wallace still 3rd string on Seattle?). They put in the West Coast offense so that when Vick gets hurt and Schaub has to come into games, the offense might actually be able to run some plays. That's the real reason Vick played so little in the preseason. You don't need to practice "You guys run upfield and if I happen to notice that you are open in the 2 seconds before I run the ball myself, I might try to throw it to you." The Falcons have no intention of teaching Vick any kind of offense because he is what he is: a great athlete who will make plays on his own until an injury seriously degrades his athleticism or ends his career. They put in the new offense for when he gets hurt.

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Nimbletoe

You can never count out a team with a healthy Vick on it. That guy does things that boggles the mind. They also have decent backs and a solid defense. They may be a tad overrated, but they are still very, very good. With TO being out, I think they'll make it to the super bowl.

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Shpoop

with TO out, im not too confident that philly will make it to the superbowl, but i dont think atlanta will either. i think it will either be philly or a surprise team, maybe green bay or someone else who has struggled during the year but gets a miracle run during the playoffs

Ace_O_Spades

I don't know... they just haven't shown the poise and consistency to take it to the next level... I mean I'm die hard Pack, but I'm also not optimistic beyond reasonable expectations... Like commentators picking Carolina to win the NFC again.

But I agree with your statement it will be Philly or a surprise.. I seriously doubt Atlanta will make it

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Feh.

Nimbletoe

What suprise? The NFC is terrible this year. I think the Eagles are going to choke early without TO, and the Hawks are going to the super bowl. But hey, to each his own.

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Cross-Over

I just stumbled on this thread, but since you read the other one you probably already know, I disagree.

Teams play who are on their schedule, they don't make their own like college football. It's not fair and it is a factor to consider when rating a team, but it can't be changed.

They are the number one rushing team in the NFL, 13th out of 32 in overall defense. They win close games. Like I mentioned in another thread, their QB has an outstanding record as a starter. They went to the playoffs and beat the Packers at home two years ago, they aren't some fluke team.
I am not oblivious though, I recognize that their pass offense is weak. They lead the NFL in yards per rush, as a fan I am happy they are sticking to their bread and butter. Overrated to me is the Seahawks, who were a popular pick to go to the Super Bowl before the season started.

aswo

against a team with a solid defense, in the pressure of the playoffs vick will crack, or have his legs broken it is bound to happen

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Shpoop

youre right cross-over...the seahawks were overrated, but everyone admits that theyre pretty lousy right now.

i donno, to me they looks too much like a surface team. kinda like the colts i guess. they can play offense and win games, but they cant really come from behind or make drives when they absolutely count the most, or stop someone when they absolutely need to. Like you said, they both rely on their bread and butter, and if that doesnt work they just sit back and watch themselves lose...they have nothing else to rely on or to help bring back the momentum. The real powerhouses do: NE, Pittsburgh, Philly...

Cross-Over

Did you know that in 03 NE ranked 6th last in rush offense. Teams knew they were going to pass, but they still were successful in doing so all the way through the Super Bowl. Bread and butter can be a good meal.

Shpoop

well they had their defense to rely on. and i would feel alot more comfortable relying on NE's defense than on atlanta's. atlanta's phantom "13th defense" to me is like Dallas' #1 defense last year. bull-fucking-shit...everyone know that defense sucked, it was just a piss-poor schedule. You could see them giving up lots of yards to big teams, and hardly nothing to the bad ones...the result was a low yards allowed, but the team still coudlnt run with the big boys

Cross-Over

Week 1: " Rod Coleman batted down Tim Rattay's pass on a 2-point conversion attempt with 40 seconds left in the Falcons' 21-19 victory over the 49ers"

Week 6: "After struggling for three quarters, Vick rallied Atlanta from a 10-point deficit with an electrifying display in the fourth. He ran for one touchdown, threw for another and then helped run out the clock in the Falcons' 21-20 victory"

Week 11: "linebacker Keith Brooking broke up a fourth-down pass to seal the win"

Week 12: "the Falcons rallied to beat the New Orleans Saints 24-21 when Vick threw a 20-yard touchdown pass to Crumpler with 1:22 remaining"

Week 15: "Michael Vick ran for a 12-yard touchdown on fourth-and-goal with less than 2 minutes left in regulation, literally flying through the air to get the Falcons to overtime"

Those are examples of everything you say they can not do. You are absolutely incorrect.

Shpoop

That was two posts ago :-b. anyways...well clearly, being a 10-3 team, there will be more instances than not of them stopping people or beating people. but you cant really judge their character based on the games theyve played. Im not saying that if you put them in a tougher schedule they would suck ass and lose every game, because no one knows. im just saying that from what we've seen, its impossible to tell. I dont think anyone can make a convincing argument that they are superbowl caliber, and that is just what people are saying. Now if they make a playoff run and do get to the superbowl, then there will be a convincing argument.

And dont be so blindly confident, lest you will eat your words like last time. Im still waiting for you to let me knee you in the balls. repeatedly. : b

thecoldone33

I dont think that the Falcons as a team are overrated. Its more of VIck thats overrated. To me he has to prove that he can make plays with his arms not his feet. if he can do this in the play-offs they can make it far because they still have their great defence, a good running game with warrick dunn, and T.J Duckett. To bring this all together Vick needs to step up his game.

Ace_O_Spades

The only close win that should be given credit was over San Diego

The other teams are shit and a team that is touted as Superbowl contenders should mop the floor with them, not win by a squeaker

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DDDDave

Overrated....agreed.

Don't forget about the ass-whooping the Bucs gave them. 27-0. Zero, nadda, zilch. There have only been three shutouts all season. Cleveland, San Fran, and ??Atlanta.??

Superbowl teams don't get shut out. Period.

A team that plays good team defense can contain Vick and frustrate him into mistakes. Scheme them to make him run, then punish him.

As soon as the Falcons face a good team in the playoffs, they're done.

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Shpoop

i agree dave...but that made me realize something. a good team in the playoffs might not exist in the NFC. the eagles are good, but theres always the possibility that they will be bummed over the loss of TO or self-condem themselves to the idea of a NFC Championship curse, and just not play as well as they can. sigh....

Cross-Over

[QUOTE=DDDDave]Overrated....agreed.

Don't forget about the ass-whooping the Bucs gave them. 27-0. Zero, nadda, zilch. There have only been three shutouts all season. Cleveland, San Fran, and ??\QUOTE]

The Bucs play good D , and have a history of dominating Vick and the Falcons. I can admit that. If you were familiar with the NFC south you would recognize that. "Hey, let me find the most obsolete detail and dwell on it." Zero, nada, zilch affect on their PLAYOFF destination. Keep searching for these little blurbs while they coast into the playoffs.

Shpoop, you are regressing. You went from calling them out an overrated team to saying they aren't Super Bowl caliber. Big difference. Not offense, it's just clear that you were way too "gung ho" in your criticism earlier. I clearly disproved that, why not just say you were wrong?

Ace of Spades, thats total fucking bullshit. They should get credit for every single victory. The Dolphins beat one of the best teams in football, don't talk about "shoulds". All teams consist of wonderful athletes. Don't insult the sport. The schedule is the NFL's fault, not the Falcons. You're dewlling on some bullshit about their schedule rather than something worth debating.

Shpoop

no no, i have always been saying the same thing. I dont think they are superbowl caliber, and now that TO is out that is what everyone is saying: Altlanta=superbowl. I disagree wholeheartedly, and hence, i think they are overrated. I wasnt arguing that theyre bad, because they arent...just that theyre overrated when people think they are going to the superbowl

thrsn0730

Well, Atlanta may very well indeed be overrated. But you know what? The entire NFC is awful now that the Eagles have lost T.O. I honestly believe you could end up with Philly, Atlanta, Carolina, Green Bay or just about anybody else in the Super Bowl. The conference is wide open.

Ace_O_Spades

Let's let the post season show them for who they are. That's all I have to say about Atlanta anymore. They had a piss easy schedule and they're going to get their asses handed to them when they face someone with talent.

My arguments are not shit, I consistently back up my arguments with statistics and base, you on the other hand are resulting to name calling and favouritism.

You say don't insult the game? How is saying that the Patriots should have beaten the Dolphins insulting the game, if i were to say that? Just like a superbowl quality team shouldn't be in tight with New Orleans.

What would you rather debate? Vick? There's an argument on that going on in the Pro Bowl thread... What would you like to debate? Their shitty ass Offensive Line? What?

I've given Atlanta credit where credit is due, they just aren't due much credit.

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Feh.

Rdr4evr

This is just getting ridiculous. You can argue that the Sparrows are not over-rated until hell freezes over, but the facts have been presented and ignored (statistics/schedule, etc). Vick is a disgrace of a QB who couldn't pass if his life depended on it, and the fact that he is even thought of as an all-star is disgusting.

The Sparrows have been embarrassed by sorry teams and have barely squeaked wins by, uh, other sorry teams, and without a passing game, they will not win in the play-offs. If they do, than I will apologize and take back everything I said (depending on who they play in the play-offs), except the fact that Vick sucks, I will not take that back until he proves he knows how to throw the ball (not just with power either).

15 fumbles and 12 INT's and this guy is a pro-bowler, comedy at its finest indeed. It's a shame that worthy contenders didn't make it.

vox_rox

Agreed, except I believe that the Eagles are the only team in the NFC that GENUINELY has a good team on both sides of the ball. Also, everyone in theis thread are slamming th eFalcons for an easy schedule, but the Eagles have played a lot of games against sun .500 teams as well, yet I see no comments about that.

Either way, I don't think the Falcons are a bad team, but their record does not really, IMO, reflect the their true nature. I was hoping that they'd go 10-6 this year, so 11 wins going into week 15 is amazing for a team with really no depth, and very little post-season experince.

Having said that, I thikn that Mora can bring this team further if they can keep the core players, diversify the offence a bit, and, hopefully, get some good play-off experience.

Still, the Falcons are my team, and even if they don't really deserve, don't we all want to se our team win a bowl? They won't, Pittsburgh will win the Superbowl anyway, but still, dare to dream.

Go Falcons!

Peace,

Pierre

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Cross-Over

Ace O Spades, I edited by thread before you replied. Regardless, I didn't call you names. I am showing favouritism, and you are showing dislike. You don't like the Falcons, its evident.

What stats and base are you backing it up with. You posted their schedule, thats a good point. You got nothing else besides opinion, for example, "The only close win that should be given credit was over San Diego...The other teams are shit".

I agree to disagree.

Rdr4evr, I acknowledged their schedule. I brought up that they don't pass well. What other stats am I ignoring?

Keep complaining about Vick’s pro bowl status, but remember that NFL players, coaches, and fans all voted him in. You are the minority champ.

Justsomeguy

The Falcons have lost to a few weak opponents. However, although they pulled off a couple of squeakers, they have proved to be able to hang with other top NFL teams. How can you are that the Eagles are superior to the Falcons? The Falcons have beat 2 teams with winnining records. The Eagles have only beaten three. Granted the falcons received a couple of ass whippings, the Eagles didn't play so hot against the Steelers. I think the Steelers loss was much more significant than the Falcons' three losses. You have to prove you can contend with top teams.

Neither team has looked impressive in the past few weeks. I think a match-up between these two teams would be a good football game, and I would like to see it.

As far as Vick goes, some of his stats look impressive. Some such as the interceptions and fumbles mentioned above definitely things you want to have under your belt. However, I think Vick is a pro bowler because of what he contributes to his team. The Falcons would not be in the great situation they are currently in without Michael Vick leading them.

ironchef82

Disclaimer: I'm going to start by saying I'm a Falcons fan.

I totally agree that their record is in part due to a weak schedule. Before the season began, with the team they had assembled, I expected them to get 8-10 and have a shot at a wild card. For them to get 11, and possibly up to 13, is extremely fortunate.

But I also think that part of their record has to do with the fact that they have a healthy Vick, and a pretty solid defense. I don't see them getting 11 wins with Matt Schaub as their QB, or with the same defensive scheme as was used last year.

To me, the Falcons aren't overrated, but just simply decent. Not stellar, but just decent. I can't fault people saying that the Falcons are contenders for the Superbowl, simply because you have to admit they have a pretty good shot. They have a home game in the playoffs, which is a huge advantage, and (assuming both they and Philly win) will face a weakened Eagles team. Certainly Vick and co will have a revenge factor in their minds from their divisional playoff loss from 2 years ago.

Also, I can certainly use the same overrated via strength of schedule argument with the Eagles. But I'm smarter than that because I know that the Eagles have a decent team (but should be interesting to see how they respond to the TO loss).

Whatever happens the rest of the way, the Falcons will need to get some WRs and develop Vick more as a passer. I still hold my breath every time he runs up the field and flails his body after a dive/awkward tackle. But the thought of a Vick who can both pass well and bust out a highlight reel rush every game is better not just for the Falcons but for the NFL in general.

Shpoop

i guess i will concede to that. they are only decent, but have a shot because of the mediocrity of the NFC. i think that if they get to the superbowl and face the patriots or steelers, they will get smoked and a pancake.

Rdr4evr

Vick just got a 10 year fucking contract! BAHAHAHAHAHA, what a joke, this guys legs aren't even going to last 10 years. I heard that he will get $100,000,000 as well, which is more than that other QB makes, you know, the one that is actually good? I think his name is Manning. The Falcons might as well taken that money and burned it, what a waste. They will regret this one in a year or two.

http://nfl.com/teams/story/ATL/8030762

Bodyhammer86

Vick is getting paid more than Manning? Wow, this is a new low for football.

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Cross-Over

Vick's total deal is worth more, but thats because he signed for 10 years (Manning signed for 7).

Per year, Manning makes more.

Rdr4evr

Vick got a better signing bonus as well......

TitleFight

Bingo! To continue to beat a dead horse....

People keep whining about the Falcons strength of schedule this year...well as all of you by know by now, the NFC is a busch league, cupcake conference this year. Only 4 teams at the moment are playing ABOVE .500 ball. FOUR teams. So every team plays an easy schedule, it's really that simple. Before the season began the Falcons were projected to have something like the 14th hardest schedule in the league, pretty much right down the middle - it's not their fault that their competition fucking blows. BUT, what does matter is the fact that they get the job done. They win the games they're supposed to win, it's really that simple. Not sure how people can fault them for that.

And about these close games. I think a sign/mark of a talented and gully team is the boys that pull out the close ones. Look at the Pats from years past...hell, look at the Panthers from last year and all their come-from-behind-wins and squeakers. You have to know how to win the close ones, period.

Having a rushing attack/time control offense of a healthy Duckett, Vick, and Dunn combined with their above average D I think makes them easily the top team in the NFC now that TO is gone...I'm sitting here picking my brain for another NFC team that someone else can even argue. First off fuck the NFC West. So they're out. Second the problem with the NFC North is a common problem among the two top teams - coaches by the name of Mike. Third, in the NFC East the Iggles are the most famous chokeartists since well, since Monica Lewinsky. And until they prove otherwise, WITHOUT TO, and with pussy ass reveivers like Pinkston, I'll continue to pick the Falcons as the favorites. Easily.

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blakngold4

i say whether they're overrated depends entirely on what you think of 'em. as far as 3-loss nfl teams go, they're in the lower chunk of them historically. still, who's more deserving of a bye in the nfc? i say no one. who's got a qualified case to make a super bowl run? i say carolina if they still have a way in, and maybe minnesota if randy moss is actually healthy and playing hard. beyond that, the top 2 teams always have a huge advantage with home field and the bye week, and i think it puts both teams (atl phi) in good shape since they don't stand to see any teams noticeably better than they've already played.

i also think your argument is slightly problematic when you take the only game they've played against high-level competition (SD) and disregard it. if they're 1-0 against teams with great records, maybe they're one of those teams that just always pulls out wins. their team, with a strong running game and TE, is built MUCH more for wearing teams down and playing close. i think that plays to their advantage with their home crowd, and if they have to play outside in the cold (philly)

grayman

This is the funniest part of Vick's contract: the $37 million in guaranteed money. Now when Vick gets hurt again or for good, they still have to pay him. What a great idea.

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Rdr4evr

Didn't Vick miss todays game? I think he had a shoulder injury......won't be his last.

Bodyhammer86

The Falcons just lost to the Saints 26-13. Is anyone going to praise them now?

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