Friday Night Fights (Pistons/Pacers Game) - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Jadedfox · 11-20-2004, 08:20 AM

Well first off I'm a huge Pacers fan. That being said, I'm pretty embarassed by the actions of Artest, O'Neal and Jackson.

However, I can completely understand why. That doesn't make it right obviously, but the Pistons fans where completely out of line. And where the hell was security?

--jaded

Manic_Skafe · 11-20-2004, 08:20 AM

This is just more tell-tale evidence that the entire sports world is getting out of hand - the only thing capable of surmounting the attitudes of most of these "athletes" are their paychecks. As the ones who "make the game worth playing" and make it possible to do so, hitting a fan under any circumstance other than self defense deserves nothing less than a beheading and that's exactly what these "athletes" deserve.

If I were running the ship these guys would no longer have jobs and they'd be fined to the point that they'd have to pawn their grandmother's gold teeth.

djtestudo · 11-20-2004, 08:50 AM

Stevo22, if you are truely demanding Artest get banned, then I demand Ben Wallace get banned, because he was the ultimate start of it all when he came after Artest.

And anyone in that same situation of having taunts shouted, followed by a FULL CUP OF BEER thrown at your FACE would have acted exactly as Artest acted.

I would accept suspensions for Artest and Jackson, although I believe they did absolutely nothing truely wrong. But Ben Wallace needs to be suspended at least as long, Detroit needs to have games forfeited due to the actions of the fans, and a very large number of those fans need to go to prison.

djtestudo · 11-20-2004, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic_Skafe

This is just more tell-tale evidence that the entire sports world is getting out of hand - the only thing capable of surmounting the attitudes of most of these "athletes" are their paychecks. As the ones who "make the game worth playing" and make it possible to do so, hitting a fan under any circumstance other than self defense deserves nothing less than a beheading and that's exactly what these "athletes" deserve.

If I were running the ship these guys would no longer have jobs and they'd be fined to the point that they'd have to pawn their grandmother's gold teeth.

But fans are allowed to assualt players?

Strange Famous · 11-20-2004, 08:56 AM

I dont want to hear these fans whining about getting hit.

If you taunt, insult, pelt a player, and get hit back... GOOD, you just got what you were asking for. Anyone has the right to defend themselves, NBA players included,,,

irateplatypus · 11-20-2004, 09:05 AM

i got sick to my stomach listening to the lame ESPN commentary on the link Hanxter provided. how many times can you scapegoat the fans in one sequence? the players were clearly out of control before the fans got involved. and how do you think that media would treat you if a player threw a water bottle at you from the bench and you came down swinging? you'd be banned from the arena for life. i think the players lose track of the fact that all they can do is play a game well. the media loses track that all they do is talk about a bunch of people playing a game. beyond that, many of them aren't qualified to do anything but bag my groceries. their money, power, and prestige go out the window when the working stiff stops paying 70 dollars for a replica jersey and 125 bucks for decent seats.

i'd like to see the NBA take a hard look at the type of people that are employed throughout their league. they've either got to cut down hard on this stuff or face the fact that they've let the game become a circus.

djtestudo · 11-20-2004, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

i got sick to my stomach listening to the lame ESPN commentary on the link Hanxter provided. how many times can you scapegoat the fans in one sequence? the players were clearly out of control before the fans got involved. and how do you think that media would treat you if a player threw a water bottle at you from the bench and you came down swinging? you'd be banned from the arena for life. i think the players lose track of the fact that all they can do is play a game well. the media loses track that all they do is talk about a bunch of people playing a game. beyond that, many of them aren't qualified to do anything but bag my groceries. their money, power, and prestige go out the window when the working stiff stops paying 70 dollars for a replica jersey and 125 bucks for decent seats.

i'd like to see the NBA take a hard look at the type of people that are employed throughout their league. they've either got to cut down hard on this stuff or face the fact that they've let the game become a circus.

Once again...so the fans should be allowed to assualt players?

The problem was on the court and calming down when the beer was thrown at Artest. Fans then came ONTO THE COURT after players, and threw stuff as they were walking back to the locker rooms, even at uninvolved players. It IS the fans fault.

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-20-2004, 09:28 AM

I got into a big arguement with my friends over this.

No doubt players like Artest and Jackson were at least somewhat at fault for charging into the stands, but I personally don't blame them.

Fans on the floor is another thing. I have never laughed so hard in all my life when I saw Artest and O'Neal steal on those two fat sons of bitches who walked onto the court like they were going to do something. I'd say those guys got off light, they should've been torn limb from fucking limb, fans should not be allowed on the court like that.

irateplatypus · 11-20-2004, 09:37 AM

of course the fans shouldn't be allowed to assault players. do you really think anyone is suggesting that?

my point is that no where but the NBA (with the possible exception of the Vibe awards

) is running up to someone and punching them out an acceptable response to getting hit with a plastic cup filled with beer. both you and i would get thrown IN JAIL for acting like that in a sports arena... yet the players receive empathy from the media (at least the ESPN commentators anyway) because the fan's usual annoying behavior justifies such an outrageous response.

well, i say "tough titties" to our dear mister artest. enduring jeering and the occassional sailing beer cup is just part of getting paid millions to play a game. they have no problem getting a paycheck that benefits from the NBA's rabid atmosphere yet go out of control when the situation crosses from their bank account into a personal inconvenience. so you got hit w/a cup of beer from one of your patrons... suck it up.

djtestudo · 11-20-2004, 09:43 AM

No, WE would go with self-defense and have no problems.

That is exactly what it was.

stevo · 11-20-2004, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

Stevo22, if you are truely demanding Artest get banned, then I demand Ben Wallace get banned, because he was the ultimate start of it all when he came after Artest.

And anyone in that same situation of having taunts shouted, followed by a FULL CUP OF BEER thrown at your FACE would have acted exactly as Artest acted.

Ben Wallace overreacted, yes. But what he did was still on the court of play. He should be punnished for it.

If Artest did not go into the stands, none of this would have happened. The players have to be above the fans in such situations, and Artest acting like nothing more than a highschool punk deserves nothing more than to be banned from the sport. Think about what would have happened had Artest only stood up and let his teammates hold him back while the offending beer thrower is pointed out and escorted out of the stands. There is NO excuse for what Artest did. Ban his punk-ass from basketball.

And claiming self-defense is complete bullshit. The beer was already thrown. no fan came onto the court to attack a player until AFTER Artest went into the stands to attack random fans. You make it sound as if beer started raining from the stands and fans flooded the court to attack the Pacers. You know thats not how it happened. If Artest never entered the stands none of this would have happened.

maleficent · 11-20-2004, 10:02 AM

Wonder if the networks will see any fines for this? People get their panties in a bunch about a white woman in a towel, but all out brawls are acceptable behavior and are ok to be televised? Why, because it's 'entertainment'?

stevo · 11-20-2004, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Wonder if the networks will see any fines for this? People get their panties in a bunch about a white woman in a towel, but all out brawls are acceptable behavior and are ok to be televised? Why, because it's 'entertainment'?

Come on. get real. How can you even compare the two? This riot was not a planned publicity stunt. It was a random act of chaos. What are the camera men supposed to do? Turn off their cameras? What is the producer supposed to do? Cut to a commercial? I'm not even going to get dragged into the MNF fiasco, but comparing the two is absurd.

dylanmarsh · 11-20-2004, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimbletoe

Damnit, Artest is on my fantasy team.

Me too and I also have Big Ben and Tinsley. What a bunch of morons.

What possesses a dipshit like Artest to track down and pummel a guy who threw a plastic cup at him is beyond stupid. I've been hit with cups, sneakers, nachos, hockey pucks and other objects at sporting events and I've managed to keep my cool and not attack an entire stadium to get after one guy who I think threw something at me. Artest is the biggest moron in NBA since the glory days of Dennis Rodman; ironic he's where Rodman's #91.

murphpuppy37 · 11-20-2004, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

And anyone in that same situation of having taunts shouted, followed by a FULL CUP OF BEER thrown at your FACE would have acted exactly as Artest acted.

I would accept suspensions for Artest and Jackson, although I believe they did absolutely nothing truely wrong. But Ben Wallace needs to be suspended at least as long, Detroit needs to have games forfeited due to the actions of the fans, and a very large number of those fans need to go to prison.

There are so many things wrong with this.
1) Just because you would have acted the same way as Artest did, DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!! He will get suspended, and he SHOULD get suspended. And his suspension will be incredibly lengthy, as it should be. He will probably get sued by the fan that he hit first, because, as mentioned before, that was NOT the guy who threw the beer. That is assault, any way you slice it, and I have a feeling that Artest is going to wish he had picked the correct guy. (By the way, the guy who DID throw the beer was subsequently punched out by Jermaine O'Neal). As hard as it might be, as much against your nature as it must be, you absolutely have to keep yourself from going up in the stands. Artest and his teammates made a choice. It was a choice that, granted, most of us (including me) would probably make, but again...it DOESN'T MAKE IT THE RIGHT CHOICE! The fan who threw the beer got what he deserved, and Artest will soon get what he deserves (lawsuit, suspension, etc.).

2) Anyone who watched the entire game knows that Artest had no real reason for fouling Wallace on the play. He did not make any kind of play on the ball until Wallace started the layup, so it was a cheap shot. And, if you look at the tape, Artest completely expected to get shoved by Wallace and got precisely the reaction he wanted. Again, Wallace definitely shares the blame of the situation and deserves the suspension that he will inevitably get, but no one can honestly say (in an unbiased manner) that Wallace was completely at fault. Artest was completely goading him by hitting him the way he did, and Artest got the shove in the face that he richly deserved. Wallace will (and should) get suspended, but Artest's suspension will (and should) be just as long, because it was Artest who truly started this completely unnecessary situation.

3) If you believe Stephen Jackson did absolutely nothing wrong, then I believe you did not watch the tape carefully enough. He tried absolutely everything he could to incite something, instead of doing what he should have done and playing a role in calming things down (like just about everyone else was trying to do.) He started going after people like Lindsey Hunter who had nothing at all to do with what was going on, and his despicable actions were even mentioned by the announcers before the really rough stuff started happening. I ask you, again, to watch the tape more closely before making your sanctimonious assertions of blame.

4) The Pistons need to have games forfeited because of the actions of 50 or so fans out of 22,076? Absolutely ridiculous. The arena was two-thirds empty because the game was out of reach, so to blame the majority of Pistons fans for the actions of an idiotic few is ludicrous. To punish the Pistons team for those same actions of those idiotic few is equally as ludicrous. I'll say it again, this could truly happen almost anywhere, especially when someone as provocative and hot-headed as Ron Artest is concerned.

No one is absolved of blame in this situation. Wallace, Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, Stephen Jackson, the moron that threw the initial beer, the two chubby guys who got what they deserved, the media for promoting a thug like Artest, the incredibly horrible security at the Palace: all of these share the blame. Everyone is at fault here, and consequences will, and should be dire.

Cowman · 11-20-2004, 11:43 AM

The hypocrasy from some people saying "artest is a pro athlete, he's paid to take abuse from fans! he's to blame!" , and then turning around and saying "there was no need for artest to foul wallace! you can't blame big ben for shoving artest after that unneccesary foul! "

is hilarious.

Bacchanal · 11-20-2004, 11:59 AM

The first time I watched the replay of it, I thought Artest and Jackson were suspended for the length of the season. After watching ESPN disect in every possible way, my opinion changed a bit.

I'm not going into who should get suspended/fined/arrested. The NBA doesn't care about my opinion, so what's the point?

Artest may have over reacted but even that is a tough decision considering he was trying to calm down after the initial fight. I cant say I wouldn't do the same. I think the fans got out of hand after Artest went after the first guy. Some guy who was trying to hold Artest back just started punching him in the back of the head, then Jackson comes to Artest's aid to get punched in the back of the head by some huge black guy.

The shit on the floor, I just cant see how that was allowed to happen at all. Some guy trying to start shit on the floor deserves to get punched, and Artest did just that. Fair enough. I cant see why O'Neal would punch some other guy the way he did though. He flew in from off camera and laid that guy out. From what I saw it didn't look like that guy was starting anything, but I cant say for sure, as I wasn't there.

I cant agree with anyone saying Wallace should be suspended or anything else. That fight was over by the time the cup was thrown, and it isn't like Wallace told anyone to throw anything.

Munku · 11-20-2004, 12:37 PM

Anyone got a link where I don't have to download some exe player thing?

Jadedfox · 11-20-2004, 12:39 PM

Well Artest, O'Neal, Jackson and Wallace have been suspended "indefinitely".
There goes the Pacers season.

Linky

--jaded

Gabbyness · 11-20-2004, 01:46 PM

Completely unbelievable, on all ends!

Cowman · 11-20-2004, 02:17 PM

I'd hardly say this is the end of the Pacers season.

powerclown · 11-20-2004, 03:43 PM

Artest started the whole thing, from the initial stupidly flagrant foul, to being the first one in the stands. I thought Wallace was really going to tear into him, he looked PISSED. Why they gave Wallace an indefinite suspension for only pushing Artest is beyond me...makes no sense. He pushed him, big deal. This kind of crap is best forgotten - just get all these guys (who all happen to be great players, not no-name journeymen) back playing ASAP. Everybody knows its pro sports, yes there's a double standard, yes people would have gone to jail if it happened in a bar, but its the NBA. Don't go screwing up any teams seasons by suspending their best players. Doesn't this happen in hockey like every month or so anyway??

Cross-Over · 11-20-2004, 03:51 PM

I think Wallace should get about five games for going after Artest's face/head, and then:
-refusing to calm down,
-refusing to leave the court in a timely manner (if ejected at that time)
-escalating the incident by throwing a towel at a idle Artest.

Artest should only get suspended for going into the stands and putting his hands on a defenseless person. I say about 5 games. Hitting that guy on the floor should go unpunished, we dont have audio or tape on what led up to the guy and his friend coming onto the floor towards Artest.

I know Jackson will get suspended, but I dont think he should I have heard that he didnt go into the stands as a peacemaker, instead as a brawler. At this point though, Artest was already yoked up by another fan and surrounded by more. Jackson went to help his teamate as far I am concerned. I play basketball, I would do the same thing for a teamate.
(On the floor, Jackson did the same as Lindsey Hunter accept with less body language. He also didn't push as many guys as Rasheed did.)

Oneal should probably get about 5 games for charging at that guy who didnt appear to pose a threat at the time.

Stompy · 11-20-2004, 04:03 PM

I'm not into sports at all... but that was goddamn AWESOME.

I don't care what anyone says, it was good: far from a "disgrace" as people are calling it. I applaud all those involved!

If sports was like that more often, I'd watch and be all into it.

I think they should get a slap on the wrist... and then a rematch on THEIR turf!

Nimbletoe · 11-20-2004, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowman

I'd hardly say this is the end of the Pacers season.

If they're suspended for the rest of the year it is. Remember, Latrell got 68 games for choking a coach. Even if they are out long enough for them to lose a lot of games... without those three, they might barely make the playoffs if at all. Injuries and losing your best two players will have a HUGE impact, no matter how deep.

NoseyJoe · 11-20-2004, 05:57 PM

As commish David Stern said, there is NO reason for players to go into the stands! Ron Artest knew what he was doing, and I think the Pacers were taking out their frustrations for losing the Eastern Conference Finals last year. He got hit in the chest with a cup, big freakin deal. That is NO reason to assault fans.

Ben Wallace overreacted to the foul, but he should have been ejected and suspended 1 - 5 games. But to be suspended indefinitely? Out of control fans and Artest, Jackson, and O'neal were out of line in this.

There needs to be swift and harsh punishment for ANYONE who goes into the stands. LET LAW ENFORCEMENT HANDLE THE FANS!

Cowman · 11-20-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimbletoe

If they're suspended for the rest of the year it is. Remember, Latrell got 68 games for choking a coach. Even if they are out long enough for them to lose a lot of games... without those three, they might barely make the playoffs if at all. Injuries and losing your best two players will have a HUGE impact, no matter how deep.

Im thinking this way tho: even if they are suspended for the rest of the year, it would only be for the rest of the regular season. The pacers are deep enough, and the east is weak enough, that they can still get into the playoffs without those guys, albeit a 7th or 8th seed. As long as they get to the playoffs..well..I mean the pacers are one of the best teams in the league, plus artest and o'neal and co would come back BANGIN in the playoffs. theyd be pissed

mattgical · 11-20-2004, 10:00 PM

European soccer fans are watching all this commotion and saying to themselves, "you should come to a Soccer game here".

You can Literally get killed for cheering the wrong team!

lk_3000 · 11-20-2004, 11:04 PM

The two fans that Artest and Jermaine O'Neal punched on the court deserved what they got.

pan6467 · 11-20-2004, 11:18 PM

From what I have seen, read and heard, there is no excuse for a player to EVER go into the stands unless physically life or death jeopardy, and even then it would be smart just to go to the lockerroom..

Having a soda cup thrown at you is nothing. Someone saying that throwing a cup at an athlete gives that athlete the right to go into the stands and start kicking the fans asses is something I can't understand at all.

Hell, when I was a kid I remember in Pittsburgh people literally throwing batteries at Dave Parker. He didn't charge the stands.

When you buy a ticket you have the right to sit there and say whatever you want about an athlete. I have always believed that it relieves stress and allows people an outlet to say something about high priced pussies who can't take a little name calling, that is their job. If they are in a bar or regular people that's one thing but as a celebrity and athlete that comes with the territory always has always will.

Should the guy have thrown the soda? No, and he should have been found and arrested. Instead, there are fans that are going to become very rich because they have the right to sue big time. Especially that first guy who didn't do anything.

I think with the baseball incidents that have happened recently and other sports.... serves as a warning. I think there are fans that are getting tired of over paid crybabies in sports that care nothing about the fans and unfortunately until these players recognize the fans things will get worse.

Wingless · 11-20-2004, 11:42 PM

I'm in Metro Detroit, so this melee is a treat for the media here at the end of sweeps period.

Anywho, watching the 11pm news earlier tonight, the latest poop is a 30 game suspension for Artest, 20 game suspensions for the other two Pacers guys, and a 5 game suspension for Wallace.

BTW, the Pacers game today, combined with suspensions and injuries, left 6 healthy players to go.

Sadly enough, trash-talking and disrespectfulness is all a part of the game. I will admit, however, that going as far as throwing something at the player is too much - still, Artest HAD NO RIGHT to jump into the stands and GO AFTER THE WRONG GUY. Plus, if you watch the video carefully, Artest is a dumbass and goes after the guy WITH A DRINK IN HIS HAND! (I LIKE CAPS!)

Here's how things went, in my opinion:

-Artest fouls Wallace
-Wallace shoves Artest
-Short hell breaks out, but order is more-or-less restored...
-Artest lies down on judges table and lies down on the table like he owns the place
-This prevokes ONE Pistons fan to throw a beer at Artest (According to Local 4 Detroit here, the guy actually came down from an above section to throw the beer... however he didn't get hit. If he did get hit, he would've deserved whatever he got)
-Artest becomes infuriated, runs up the stands to the general area where the beer was thrown from, trys to find the guy who threw it.
-Jackson runs after Artest, first appearing to stop him, but instead attacks at random
-Two fat guys in Pistons jerseys, seeing that all hell is breaking loose, run down into the court (is there proof that these guys came down from the stands?)
-Prevoked by Artest's horrible reaction to everything in the stands, Pistons fans become angry and begin throwing more shit into the general Pacers area (yes, including a chair)
-Artest and Jackson punch the two fat guys (one of which left the Palace in an ambulence)
-Artest is taken down the tunnel and into the locker room... however something happened in the tunnel that wasn't on a camera (?)

...and less than 24 hours later, "ArrestArtest.com" appears, and "Detroit Fans Suck" hats appear at the Pacers arena

Who's to blame? At the bottom of the list, Wallace and Palace Security. At the top of the list, 1) Artest, and 2) Detroit fans. Although if you ask me (and I've only watched the videos tonight, didn't watch the game, and I'm not into sports much), the original only fan to blame was the first guy that threw the beer. (Local 4 Detroit 11pm's news started today with a "Who is this fan?", pointing out who really did throw the beer initially.)

I'm done ranting... I'm sure someone will prove this all wrong, but this is the highlight of my weekend.

Edit: BTW, I'm happy everyone is a professional on Detroit. I know I'm not a professional, but we're not all the riot-enducing, building-burning people that everyone has made us out to be. (side rant, not necessarily people here on TFP)

Jadedfox · 11-21-2004, 02:53 AM

I though it was pretty amazing that Pacers only lost by 3 to Orlando only dressing six players

But yeah I agree with suspensions, but I also think the Detroit fans should be punished as well. And that fat fuck who ran onto the court got exactly what he deserved...twice

--jaded

DJ Happy · 11-21-2004, 03:44 AM

The fat fuck in the Pistons jersey who ran onto the court was looking for some millionnaires to hit him so that he could sue - and he ended up bagging two of richest of them.

Artest and O'Neal should be banned for just being plain fucking stupid. And I hope the fat fuck inthe Pistons jersey takes them to the cleaners.

OFKU0 · 11-21-2004, 11:10 AM

Sad sight all around but along with suspensions and fines (for players and fans) who ever runs security for the Pistons should be fired to. Where the hell was the security. The lack thereof is worse than what happened

Halx · 11-21-2004, 12:13 PM

For those who put the blame on the players, I think you're missing or not considering a lot of info. Look, everything that went on was completely human. I think those who expect others to act beyond or above the realm of basic human emotion are far too self-illusioned about people. None of us are budhist monks, we have survival instincts. When we feel threatened, we will attack.

Of course the NBA is not gonna consider these points. Not because they expect the players to be calm, docile sheep, but because an example has to be made. The league has to show that it has dignity.

With all that said, I feel like Artest should be banned for life. That's my personal opinion. A hell of a player, but a major nuisance.

djtestudo · 11-21-2004, 12:27 PM

Here's a question.

Say you are sitting in a bar with your buddies, and you get into an argument with another patron. He is a regular, and has a lot of friends there. He attacks you, but you back off while his friends are egging everything on. Suddenly, out of nowhere a cup of beer comes flying and hits you in the face.

What would you do?

A lot of people will say that they would turn and walk out, but I would be sure that in most people it is a 50/50 chance that you would go after the guy who threw it instead.

Now, after hearing all sorts of opinions on this, seeing it again and again and again, and thinking about it, here's what I think.

1) Artest is more in the wrong then I first thought, but not 30 games worth. I would fine and suspend him though.

2) Wallace still needs much more then a five game suspention, but less then what Artest gets, since he was the ultimate start of it all.

3) Stephen Jackson should get the most severe penalty, since he has no excuse. He went in and started swinging. O'Neal should get less, because he did try to break the fight up in the stands, and the fan on the court doesn't get any sympathy.

4) The two guys who came onto the court have no legal recourse. They had no reason to go out there other then for neferious reasons, and got whatever they deserved.

5) There still needs to be MAJOR sanctions against the Pistons fans to show that throwing things will NOT be tolerated, as well as coming onto the court after players. Personally, I would make the Pistons forfeit their remaining home game against the Pacers, that way the fans know how their actions can have consequences. This is in addition to any criminal prosecutions.

The NBA needs to make a statement.

Kurant · 11-21-2004, 12:48 PM

Banned for life? Artest is no worse the Sprewell, or Rodman in his days. Now, this is on another level, but banned for life? I woulden't go that far. However, banned for the season, while I may not agree with such a suspension, woulden't be too far fetched. It's entirely possibly. Matter in fact, I woulden't doubt Artest gets suspended for the season.

I don't find what Wallace did all that bad. Shaq a few years ago took a swing at Brad Miller and missed, benches cleared, all he got was 3 games and 10 grand. Because Wallace pushed him and the benches cleared, has nothing to do with Artest laying on the scores table and cups start flying, and then all hell breaks loose. Wallace had nothing to do with it after the shove and the benches cleared. Overeaction to the foul or not, he had nothing to do with the fan interaction. You can't punish Wallace based on Artests and O'Neals retaliation on a bunch of crazy fuckin fans. If all that happend was the shove and bench clearing, with no fans, does Wallace still derserve such a harsh suspension? I didn't think so.

It's everyones fault involved. The Pacers players involved took it to another level by beating fans. Wrong, or right, the NBA does need to make a statement, and all of these players, deserve whatever they get. However, in no way does this justify a life-long banning. It's not drugs, or a killing, it's a fight. Shit happens.

Justsomeguy · 11-21-2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

Here's a question.

Say you are sitting in a bar with your buddies, and you get into an argument with another patron. He is a regular, and has a lot of friends there. He attacks you, but you back off while his friends are egging everything on. Suddenly, out of nowhere a cup of beer comes flying and hits you in the face.

What would you do?

A lot of people will say that they would turn and walk out, but I would be sure that in most people it is a 50/50 chance that you would go after the guy who threw it instead.

Get real. Your example is nothing like what actually went on. We're not talking about people in a bar. We're talking about "professional" athletes. What if your doctor did shit like that? I damn sure would find a new one before my next check-up.

To the people that think the fans are responsible, do me a favor and let someone kick you in the nuts 10-20 times. Perhaps they started the feud so to speak, but they did not ignite it. Fans are shitty everywhere. I went to a few college football games and in my experience, the fans were much worse than most sporting events. A few times I had beer thrown onto me by some drunk dumbass that decides it would be fun to toss his liquor into the stands. Did I punch the guy out? No. Do you know why? Because I would go to jail.

It seems like when you are making around 5 millions dollars or more(every player in this Pacer-Piston fued was), you could shut the fuck up and try to handle to situation appropriately. I wouldn't think that someone would be stupid enough to deck someone on television like that. I guess I was wrong.

Players are not supposed to take abuse, but they are not suppose to instigate more problems as well. It wasn't right for the guy to throw ice at him. I'm sure a number of the fans are drunk or low class shit heads. Maybe both. What do you expect? Like Artest, I would have been pissed, but I wouldn't deck someone because of it.

On a side note, for Artest or Jermaine O'neal's (close to 15million a year) salary, you can throw ice at me all you want.

djtestudo · 11-21-2004, 12:54 PM

I blame Wallace because he had no reason to go after Artest. It got the teams riled up and the fans riled up so that when Artest lay down on the table the fans started chucking, and the players got pissed. If he had kept his cool none of it would have happened at all.

lpj8 · 11-21-2004, 01:45 PM

I think that there is plenty of blame to spread all around.
Ben Wallace completely overeacted to the foul,
Ron Artest decided to take matters into his own hands which I believe is completely unacceptable. He didn't know who to hit, so he decided to go after whoever he could get his hands on. What if there was a small child in the third row? What if the kid had gotten injured in the scuffle?
Jermaine O'neil and Jackson were trying to protect their own, but they made it worse rather than stopping the violence.
The fans were completely out of control.
Each party uniquely contributed to the violence and I believe they all should be held accountable for their actions.
This seems to be a growing trend in sports. Remember when Carl Everett was hit by a cell phone thrown by a fan? Remember when the Yankees bullpen got in a fight with some fans during a game? And now this. We've always had such a luxury in sports to go watch teams compete and be close to the action. Parents used to be able to take their kids to sporting venues enjoy the game and not worry about their own well-being. This may be changing.

11-20-2004, 08:20 AM	#41 (permalink)
Jadedfox Egocentric Location: World of Warcraft	Well first off I'm a huge Pacers fan. That being said, I'm pretty embarassed by the actions of Artest, O'Neal and Jackson. However, I can completely understand why. That doesn't make it right obviously, but the Pistons fans where completely out of line. And where the hell was security? --jaded __________________ There is no fucking you, there is only me.

11-20-2004, 08:20 AM	#42 (permalink)
Manic_Skafe More Than You Expect Location: Queens	This is just more tell-tale evidence that the entire sports world is getting out of hand - the only thing capable of surmounting the attitudes of most of these "athletes" are their paychecks. As the ones who "make the game worth playing" and make it possible to do so, hitting a fan under any circumstance other than self defense deserves nothing less than a beheading and that's exactly what these "athletes" deserve. If I were running the ship these guys would no longer have jobs and they'd be fined to the point that they'd have to pawn their grandmother's gold teeth. __________________ "Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

11-20-2004, 08:50 AM	#43 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Stevo22, if you are truely demanding Artest get banned, then I demand Ben Wallace get banned, because he was the ultimate start of it all when he came after Artest. And anyone in that same situation of having taunts shouted, followed by a FULL CUP OF BEER thrown at your FACE would have acted exactly as Artest acted. I would accept suspensions for Artest and Jackson, although I believe they did absolutely nothing truely wrong. But Ben Wallace needs to be suspended at least as long, Detroit needs to have games forfeited due to the actions of the fans, and a very large number of those fans need to go to prison. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

11-20-2004, 08:56 AM	#45 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I dont want to hear these fans whining about getting hit. If you taunt, insult, pelt a player, and get hit back... GOOD, you just got what you were asking for. Anyone has the right to defend themselves, NBA players included,,, __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-20-2004, 09:05 AM	#46 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i got sick to my stomach listening to the lame ESPN commentary on the link Hanxter provided. how many times can you scapegoat the fans in one sequence? the players were clearly out of control before the fans got involved. and how do you think that media would treat you if a player threw a water bottle at you from the bench and you came down swinging? you'd be banned from the arena for life. i think the players lose track of the fact that all they can do is play a game well. the media loses track that all they do is talk about a bunch of people playing a game. beyond that, many of them aren't qualified to do anything but bag my groceries. their money, power, and prestige go out the window when the working stiff stops paying 70 dollars for a replica jersey and 125 bucks for decent seats. i'd like to see the NBA take a hard look at the type of people that are employed throughout their league. they've either got to cut down hard on this stuff or face the fact that they've let the game become a circus. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill Last edited by irateplatypus; 11-20-2004 at 09:08 AM..

11-20-2004, 09:28 AM	#48 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I got into a big arguement with my friends over this. No doubt players like Artest and Jackson were at least somewhat at fault for charging into the stands, but I personally don't blame them. Fans on the floor is another thing. I have never laughed so hard in all my life when I saw Artest and O'Neal steal on those two fat sons of bitches who walked onto the court like they were going to do something. I'd say those guys got off light, they should've been torn limb from fucking limb, fans should not be allowed on the court like that. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

11-20-2004, 09:37 AM	#49 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	of course the fans shouldn't be allowed to assault players. do you really think anyone is suggesting that? my point is that no where but the NBA (with the possible exception of the Vibe awards ) is running up to someone and punching them out an acceptable response to getting hit with a plastic cup filled with beer. both you and i would get thrown IN JAIL for acting like that in a sports arena... yet the players receive empathy from the media (at least the ESPN commentators anyway) because the fan's usual annoying behavior justifies such an outrageous response. well, i say "tough titties" to our dear mister artest. enduring jeering and the occassional sailing beer cup is just part of getting paid millions to play a game. they have no problem getting a paycheck that benefits from the NBA's rabid atmosphere yet go out of control when the situation crosses from their bank account into a personal inconvenience. so you got hit w/a cup of beer from one of your patrons... suck it up. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

11-20-2004, 09:43 AM	#50 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	No, WE would go with self-defense and have no problems. That is exactly what it was. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

11-20-2004, 10:02 AM	#52 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Wonder if the networks will see any fines for this? People get their panties in a bunch about a white woman in a towel, but all out brawls are acceptable behavior and are ok to be televised? Why, because it's 'entertainment'? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

11-20-2004, 11:43 AM	#56 (permalink)
Cowman Psycho	The hypocrasy from some people saying "artest is a pro athlete, he's paid to take abuse from fans! he's to blame!" , and then turning around and saying "there was no need for artest to foul wallace! you can't blame big ben for shoving artest after that unneccesary foul! " is hilarious. __________________ You don't like my point of view..but im insane

11-20-2004, 11:59 AM	#57 (permalink)
Bacchanal Laid back Location: Jayhawkland	The first time I watched the replay of it, I thought Artest and Jackson were suspended for the length of the season. After watching ESPN disect in every possible way, my opinion changed a bit. I'm not going into who should get suspended/fined/arrested. The NBA doesn't care about my opinion, so what's the point? Artest may have over reacted but even that is a tough decision considering he was trying to calm down after the initial fight. I cant say I wouldn't do the same. I think the fans got out of hand after Artest went after the first guy. Some guy who was trying to hold Artest back just started punching him in the back of the head, then Jackson comes to Artest's aid to get punched in the back of the head by some huge black guy. The shit on the floor, I just cant see how that was allowed to happen at all. Some guy trying to start shit on the floor deserves to get punched, and Artest did just that. Fair enough. I cant see why O'Neal would punch some other guy the way he did though. He flew in from off camera and laid that guy out. From what I saw it didn't look like that guy was starting anything, but I cant say for sure, as I wasn't there. I cant agree with anyone saying Wallace should be suspended or anything else. That fight was over by the time the cup was thrown, and it isn't like Wallace told anyone to throw anything.

11-20-2004, 12:37 PM	#58 (permalink)
Munku Lost Location: Florida	Anyone got a link where I don't have to download some exe player thing?

11-20-2004, 12:39 PM	#59 (permalink)
Jadedfox Egocentric Location: World of Warcraft	Well Artest, O'Neal, Jackson and Wallace have been suspended "indefinitely". There goes the Pacers season. Linky --jaded __________________ There is no fucking you, there is only me. Last edited by Jadedfox; 11-20-2004 at 12:41 PM.. Reason: Added link

11-20-2004, 01:46 PM	#60 (permalink)
Gabbyness Chicken scratch. Location: Japan!!!	Completely unbelievable, on all ends!

11-20-2004, 02:17 PM	#61 (permalink)
Cowman Psycho	I'd hardly say this is the end of the Pacers season. __________________ You don't like my point of view..but im insane

11-20-2004, 03:43 PM	#62 (permalink)
powerclown Junkie Location: Detroit, MI	Artest started the whole thing, from the initial stupidly flagrant foul, to being the first one in the stands. I thought Wallace was really going to tear into him, he looked PISSED. Why they gave Wallace an indefinite suspension for only pushing Artest is beyond me...makes no sense. He pushed him, big deal. This kind of crap is best forgotten - just get all these guys (who all happen to be great players, not no-name journeymen) back playing ASAP. Everybody knows its pro sports, yes there's a double standard, yes people would have gone to jail if it happened in a bar, but its the NBA. Don't go screwing up any teams seasons by suspending their best players. Doesn't this happen in hockey like every month or so anyway??

11-20-2004, 03:51 PM	#63 (permalink)
Cross-Over Psycho	I think Wallace should get about five games for going after Artest's face/head, and then: -refusing to calm down, -refusing to leave the court in a timely manner (if ejected at that time) -escalating the incident by throwing a towel at a idle Artest. Artest should only get suspended for going into the stands and putting his hands on a defenseless person. I say about 5 games. Hitting that guy on the floor should go unpunished, we dont have audio or tape on what led up to the guy and his friend coming onto the floor towards Artest. I know Jackson will get suspended, but I dont think he should I have heard that he didnt go into the stands as a peacemaker, instead as a brawler. At this point though, Artest was already yoked up by another fan and surrounded by more. Jackson went to help his teamate as far I am concerned. I play basketball, I would do the same thing for a teamate. (On the floor, Jackson did the same as Lindsey Hunter accept with less body language. He also didn't push as many guys as Rasheed did.) Oneal should probably get about 5 games for charging at that guy who didnt appear to pose a threat at the time.

11-20-2004, 04:03 PM	#64 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	I'm not into sports at all... but that was goddamn AWESOME. I don't care what anyone says, it was good: far from a "disgrace" as people are calling it. I applaud all those involved! If sports was like that more often, I'd watch and be all into it. I think they should get a slap on the wrist... and then a rematch on THEIR turf! __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 11-20-2004 at 04:07 PM..

11-20-2004, 05:57 PM	#66 (permalink)
NoseyJoe Tilted Location: Michigan	As commish David Stern said, there is NO reason for players to go into the stands! Ron Artest knew what he was doing, and I think the Pacers were taking out their frustrations for losing the Eastern Conference Finals last year. He got hit in the chest with a cup, big freakin deal. That is NO reason to assault fans. Ben Wallace overreacted to the foul, but he should have been ejected and suspended 1 - 5 games. But to be suspended indefinitely? Out of control fans and Artest, Jackson, and O'neal were out of line in this. There needs to be swift and harsh punishment for ANYONE who goes into the stands. LET LAW ENFORCEMENT HANDLE THE FANS! __________________ "the only difference between suicide and martyrdom is press coverage." -- Chuck Palahniuk

11-20-2004, 10:00 PM	#68 (permalink)
mattgical Upright	re European soccer fans are watching all this commotion and saying to themselves, "you should come to a Soccer game here". You can Literally get killed for cheering the wrong team!

11-20-2004, 11:04 PM	#69 (permalink)
lk_3000 Tilted	The two fans that Artest and Jermaine O'Neal punched on the court deserved what they got.

11-20-2004, 11:18 PM	#70 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	From what I have seen, read and heard, there is no excuse for a player to EVER go into the stands unless physically life or death jeopardy, and even then it would be smart just to go to the lockerroom.. Having a soda cup thrown at you is nothing. Someone saying that throwing a cup at an athlete gives that athlete the right to go into the stands and start kicking the fans asses is something I can't understand at all. Hell, when I was a kid I remember in Pittsburgh people literally throwing batteries at Dave Parker. He didn't charge the stands. When you buy a ticket you have the right to sit there and say whatever you want about an athlete. I have always believed that it relieves stress and allows people an outlet to say something about high priced pussies who can't take a little name calling, that is their job. If they are in a bar or regular people that's one thing but as a celebrity and athlete that comes with the territory always has always will. Should the guy have thrown the soda? No, and he should have been found and arrested. Instead, there are fans that are going to become very rich because they have the right to sue big time. Especially that first guy who didn't do anything. I think with the baseball incidents that have happened recently and other sports.... serves as a warning. I think there are fans that are getting tired of over paid crybabies in sports that care nothing about the fans and unfortunately until these players recognize the fans things will get worse. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

11-20-2004, 11:42 PM	#71 (permalink)
Wingless Psycho Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA	I'm in Metro Detroit, so this melee is a treat for the media here at the end of sweeps period. Anywho, watching the 11pm news earlier tonight, the latest poop is a 30 game suspension for Artest, 20 game suspensions for the other two Pacers guys, and a 5 game suspension for Wallace. BTW, the Pacers game today, combined with suspensions and injuries, left 6 healthy players to go. Sadly enough, trash-talking and disrespectfulness is all a part of the game. I will admit, however, that going as far as throwing something at the player is too much - still, Artest HAD NO RIGHT to jump into the stands and GO AFTER THE WRONG GUY. Plus, if you watch the video carefully, Artest is a dumbass and goes after the guy WITH A DRINK IN HIS HAND! (I LIKE CAPS!) Here's how things went, in my opinion: -Artest fouls Wallace -Wallace shoves Artest -Short hell breaks out, but order is more-or-less restored... -Artest lies down on judges table and lies down on the table like he owns the place -This prevokes ONE Pistons fan to throw a beer at Artest (According to Local 4 Detroit here, the guy actually came down from an above section to throw the beer... however he didn't get hit. If he did get hit, he would've deserved whatever he got) -Artest becomes infuriated, runs up the stands to the general area where the beer was thrown from, trys to find the guy who threw it. -Jackson runs after Artest, first appearing to stop him, but instead attacks at random -Two fat guys in Pistons jerseys, seeing that all hell is breaking loose, run down into the court (is there proof that these guys came down from the stands?) -Prevoked by Artest's horrible reaction to everything in the stands, Pistons fans become angry and begin throwing more shit into the general Pacers area (yes, including a chair) -Artest and Jackson punch the two fat guys (one of which left the Palace in an ambulence) -Artest is taken down the tunnel and into the locker room... however something happened in the tunnel that wasn't on a camera (?) ...and less than 24 hours later, "ArrestArtest.com" appears, and "Detroit Fans Suck" hats appear at the Pacers arena Who's to blame? At the bottom of the list, Wallace and Palace Security. At the top of the list, 1) Artest, and 2) Detroit fans. Although if you ask me (and I've only watched the videos tonight, didn't watch the game, and I'm not into sports much), the original only fan to blame was the first guy that threw the beer. (Local 4 Detroit 11pm's news started today with a "Who is this fan?", pointing out who really did throw the beer initially.) I'm done ranting... I'm sure someone will prove this all wrong, but this is the highlight of my weekend. Edit: BTW, I'm happy everyone is a professional on Detroit. I know I'm not a professional, but we're not all the riot-enducing, building-burning people that everyone has made us out to be. (side rant, not necessarily people here on TFP) __________________ Tommy Nibs is a funny word. So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall... You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you. Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor Last edited by Wingless; 11-20-2004 at 11:57 PM..

11-21-2004, 02:53 AM	#72 (permalink)
Jadedfox Egocentric Location: World of Warcraft	I though it was pretty amazing that Pacers only lost by 3 to Orlando only dressing six players But yeah I agree with suspensions, but I also think the Detroit fans should be punished as well. And that fat fuck who ran onto the court got exactly what he deserved...twice --jaded __________________ There is no fucking you, there is only me.

11-21-2004, 03:44 AM	#73 (permalink)
DJ Happy Psycho	The fat fuck in the Pistons jersey who ran onto the court was looking for some millionnaires to hit him so that he could sue - and he ended up bagging two of richest of them. Artest and O'Neal should be banned for just being plain fucking stupid. And I hope the fat fuck inthe Pistons jersey takes them to the cleaners.

11-21-2004, 11:10 AM	#74 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	Sad sight all around but along with suspensions and fines (for players and fans) who ever runs security for the Pistons should be fired to. Where the hell was the security. The lack thereof is worse than what happened __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

11-21-2004, 12:13 PM	#75 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	For those who put the blame on the players, I think you're missing or not considering a lot of info. Look, everything that went on was completely human. I think those who expect others to act beyond or above the realm of basic human emotion are far too self-illusioned about people. None of us are budhist monks, we have survival instincts. When we feel threatened, we will attack. Of course the NBA is not gonna consider these points. Not because they expect the players to be calm, docile sheep, but because an example has to be made. The league has to show that it has dignity. With all that said, I feel like Artest should be banned for life. That's my personal opinion. A hell of a player, but a major nuisance. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

11-21-2004, 12:27 PM	#76 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Here's a question. Say you are sitting in a bar with your buddies, and you get into an argument with another patron. He is a regular, and has a lot of friends there. He attacks you, but you back off while his friends are egging everything on. Suddenly, out of nowhere a cup of beer comes flying and hits you in the face. What would you do? A lot of people will say that they would turn and walk out, but I would be sure that in most people it is a 50/50 chance that you would go after the guy who threw it instead. Now, after hearing all sorts of opinions on this, seeing it again and again and again, and thinking about it, here's what I think. 1) Artest is more in the wrong then I first thought, but not 30 games worth. I would fine and suspend him though. 2) Wallace still needs much more then a five game suspention, but less then what Artest gets, since he was the ultimate start of it all. 3) Stephen Jackson should get the most severe penalty, since he has no excuse. He went in and started swinging. O'Neal should get less, because he did try to break the fight up in the stands, and the fan on the court doesn't get any sympathy. 4) The two guys who came onto the court have no legal recourse. They had no reason to go out there other then for neferious reasons, and got whatever they deserved. 5) There still needs to be MAJOR sanctions against the Pistons fans to show that throwing things will NOT be tolerated, as well as coming onto the court after players. Personally, I would make the Pistons forfeit their remaining home game against the Pacers, that way the fans know how their actions can have consequences. This is in addition to any criminal prosecutions. The NBA needs to make a statement. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

11-21-2004, 12:48 PM	#77 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	Banned for life? Artest is no worse the Sprewell, or Rodman in his days. Now, this is on another level, but banned for life? I woulden't go that far. However, banned for the season, while I may not agree with such a suspension, woulden't be too far fetched. It's entirely possibly. Matter in fact, I woulden't doubt Artest gets suspended for the season. I don't find what Wallace did all that bad. Shaq a few years ago took a swing at Brad Miller and missed, benches cleared, all he got was 3 games and 10 grand. Because Wallace pushed him and the benches cleared, has nothing to do with Artest laying on the scores table and cups start flying, and then all hell breaks loose. Wallace had nothing to do with it after the shove and the benches cleared. Overeaction to the foul or not, he had nothing to do with the fan interaction. You can't punish Wallace based on Artests and O'Neals retaliation on a bunch of crazy fuckin fans. If all that happend was the shove and bench clearing, with no fans, does Wallace still derserve such a harsh suspension? I didn't think so. It's everyones fault involved. The Pacers players involved took it to another level by beating fans. Wrong, or right, the NBA does need to make a statement, and all of these players, deserve whatever they get. However, in no way does this justify a life-long banning. It's not drugs, or a killing, it's a fight. Shit happens. Last edited by Kurant; 11-21-2004 at 12:56 PM..

11-21-2004, 12:54 PM	#79 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	I blame Wallace because he had no reason to go after Artest. It got the teams riled up and the fans riled up so that when Artest lay down on the table the fans started chucking, and the players got pissed. If he had kept his cool none of it would have happened at all. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

11-21-2004, 01:45 PM	#80 (permalink)
lpj8 Crazy Location: U.S.A	I think that there is plenty of blame to spread all around. Ben Wallace completely overeacted to the foul, Ron Artest decided to take matters into his own hands which I believe is completely unacceptable. He didn't know who to hit, so he decided to go after whoever he could get his hands on. What if there was a small child in the third row? What if the kid had gotten injured in the scuffle? Jermaine O'neil and Jackson were trying to protect their own, but they made it worse rather than stopping the violence. The fans were completely out of control. Each party uniquely contributed to the violence and I believe they all should be held accountable for their actions. This seems to be a growing trend in sports. Remember when Carl Everett was hit by a cell phone thrown by a fan? Remember when the Yankees bullpen got in a fight with some fans during a game? And now this. We've always had such a luxury in sports to go watch teams compete and be close to the action. Parents used to be able to take their kids to sporting venues enjoy the game and not worry about their own well-being. This may be changing.