Friday Night Fights (Pistons/Pacers Game) - Page 5 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Nimbletoe · 11-27-2004, 07:53 PM

I can't find a link, but they've been playing it a lot on ESPN and such. It was the guy that started sucker punching Artest in the head from behind in the white hat and blue jacket. He underhanded it, and there was one angle that showed him clearly doing it.

Look, i'm not saying I don't somewhat understand why Artest did what he did. But given his past suspensions, the fact that he attacked fans (which I think is worse than pushing another player in any situation), and the fact that he knew Ben was mad at him, and just tried to piss him off more make me think he got what he deserved. All Ben did was push him, which, if you look at similar incidents in the past, his suspension was a lot longer than normal. Understandable, because of what followed. We can argue all we want about it in regards to whats worse, but in the end, what's done is done.

But my opinion all comes down to, I think charging into the stands is worse than an overreaction and push after a foul. Both are wrong though.

DJ Happy · 11-28-2004, 12:56 AM

I don't understand how people can say that Wallace should've received the biggest suspension. He pushed another player on court, whereas Artest ran into the stands to attack and punch innocent spectators.

How is the first worse than the second?

Rdr4evr · 11-28-2004, 02:15 AM

It's not that it is worse, it is that he started the entire mess. Had Wallace not shoved Artest, nothing would have happened.

DJ Happy · 11-28-2004, 02:26 AM

So Wallace shouldn't shove Artest because he knows that Artest has a ridiculous ego and a temper to match and that he will end up storming the stands and beating the fans?

If someone at work irritates me and I get so pissed off I go home and beat my wife, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who would blame my colleague for my wife's beating.

I don't think you can realistically hold Wallace responsible for Artest's actions. Everyone is resonsible for their own.

Rdr4evr · 11-28-2004, 02:32 AM

Good point, but after Wallace shoved Artest, he continued to pursue him even after Artest showed no retaliation; he wanted things to escalate further. Had he not, he would have stepped back after he saw Artest not fighting back.

DJ Happy · 11-28-2004, 04:35 AM

But doesn't that show that Artest wasn't really bothered by Wallace? He flipped after having that beer thrown at him. I believe he was lying down and having a nap until that happened.

Rdr4evr · 11-28-2004, 12:41 PM

I think he was already quite angry, I just think he kept the anger inside and when the fan threw the cup at him he completely exploded. Had a cup been thrown at him without the previous incident, I believe he probably wouldn't have over reacted.

This situation could really be looked at in a bunch of different ways, but in the end, whats done is done, lets just hope it doesn't happen again.

Nimbletoe · 11-28-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

It's not that it is worse, it is that he started the entire mess. Had Wallace not shoved Artest, nothing would have happened.

If Artest hadn't fouled Wallace, Ben wouldn't have pushed him. Wait, if they weren't playing basketball, there would have been no foul! You have to draw the line somewhere, and I draw it outside the realm of the court. Ben pushed Artest on the court, in the heat of the game. Artest left the game and attacked fans. That's my justification.

Avail · 12-01-2004, 05:32 PM

Recently, two fans (the one that initially threw the cup at Artest and the one that went onto the court afterwards) have been banned from The Palace of Auburn Hills. Police are still conducting their investigation.

stevo · 12-03-2004, 09:34 PM

If they banned the fans from the palace for life why not Artest? That would be awesome if the pistons did that. The pacers come to town...oops sorry Mr. Artest you are not allowed on the property. scoot.

dylanmarsh · 12-08-2004, 11:05 AM

Merry Christmas, everybody! Misdemeanors for everyone!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._investigation

Quote:

DETROIT - Five Indiana Pacers players were charged Wednesday with assault and battery in a brawl that broke out on the court last month and spilled into the stands at The Palace of Auburn Hills.

Five fans also were charged, according to a news report.

All charges were misdemeanor assault and battery — except for one count of felony assault against a fan accused of throwing a chair — according to WXYZ-TV in Detroit.

Auburn Hills police Detective Brian Martin on Wednesday morning requested arrest warrants against the five Pacers players in 52nd District Court in Rochester Hills. Martin said Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, David Harrison and Anthony Johnson each were being charged with one count of assault and battery, a 93-day misdemeanor. Jermaine O'Neal was charged with two counts of assault and battery, he said.

Bloomfield Hills attorney James W. Burdick, who represents Jackson, said it was "unfair and inappropriate" to charge his client for his actions during the brawl. Jackson is seen in TV footage punching fans in the stands.

"The problem is this: a few crazed drunken fans who created a chaotic situation," Burdick said. "Steve responded in a way that he thought was necessary to protect himself and protect his friends."

Walter Piszczatowski, a lawyer for Harrison, who is seen on tape punching a fan, also said Harrison's actions were reasonable in the context of the brawl.

"David was acting as the peacekeeper throughout that evening," he said. "He was trying to make sure everybody was safe."

Five fans also were charged with misdemeanor assault and battery, WXYZ reported. John Green, 39 and of Oakland County's West Bloomfield Township, was charged with a second count of assault and battery, the station said. Green is accused of throwing a plastic cup containing a drink that sparked the brawl.

Bryant Jackson, 35 and of Genesee County's Mundy Township, was charged with felony assault on accusations that he threw a chair into the crowd, and David Wallace, 33 and of Selma, Ala., the brother of Pistons center Ben Wallace, is one of three fans charged with a single count each of misdemeanor assault and battery, according to WXYZ.

Assault and battery carries a maximum penalty of 93 days in jail and a fine of up to $500. Felonious assault carries up to four years' imprisonment.

The fight among spectators and players broke out near the end of the game after an on-court dispute over a foul. A fan tossed a drink at Artest, who then charged into the stands and began beating a man he thought had done it.

Oakland County Prosecutor David Gorcyca said Monday that his decision on charges would be based on videotapes of the brawl and about 1,000 pages of reports. Gorcyca planned a 2 p.m. EST news conference Wednesday to announce the charges.

Two days after the brawl, NBA Commissioner David Stern issued lengthy suspensions against several players. He suspended Artest for the season, Jackson for 30 games and O'Neal for 25. Ben Wallace got six games and Johnson got five. Four players were suspended for a game apiece: Indiana's Reggie Miller and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman.

ToiletDuck · 12-08-2004, 11:25 AM

Bloomfield Hills attorney James W. Burdick, who represents Jackson, said it was "unfair and inappropriate" to charge his client for his actions during the brawl. Jackson is seen in TV footage punching fans in the stands.

it gets better everytime i read this quote

ScottKuma · 12-08-2004, 11:25 AM

Misdemeanors for everyone except for the fan that threw the chair. He gets a felony that could land him in jail for four years.

What I want to know is this: Why does that guy get a felony, and all the players only get misdemeanors? Because he used a chair?

I hope that they prosecute all of the players to the fullest extent of the law. I hope they get EVERY DAY of the 93 possible for each count. I also hope the fans get their arses thrown into jail, and also get their privelege to go to the Palace completely revoked.

But, of course...everyone will get off with probation. Bah.

Ace_O_Spades · 12-08-2004, 11:54 AM

Yes, because he used a weapon with the intent to injure

felony

ScottKuma · 12-08-2004, 11:58 AM

While I know this is the law, I also think that it's a bit ridiculous:

So a trained athlete can't do more damage than a thrown chair?

I know that the law can't cover everything, but I think I'd have thrown more charges at everyone involved. How about "inciting a riot?" How about "breaking the peace?"

dylanmarsh · 12-08-2004, 12:15 PM

The District Attorney has to figure out what charges will stick and will most likely get a conviction. I posted previously about the riot stuff and why the fight participants will only get charged with misdemeanors. Basically, it comes down to what the intent of their actions were; Artest, more than likely, did not try to kill someone. There isn't enough evidence for the DA to charge them with felony assault as it was a spur of the moment action and not planned. The chair-thrower, on the other hand, is facing a felony because of the manner in which it happened. The DA must believe or have evidence to show premeditation with the chair-thrower.

11-27-2004, 07:53 PM	#161 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	I can't find a link, but they've been playing it a lot on ESPN and such. It was the guy that started sucker punching Artest in the head from behind in the white hat and blue jacket. He underhanded it, and there was one angle that showed him clearly doing it. Look, i'm not saying I don't somewhat understand why Artest did what he did. But given his past suspensions, the fact that he attacked fans (which I think is worse than pushing another player in any situation), and the fact that he knew Ben was mad at him, and just tried to piss him off more make me think he got what he deserved. All Ben did was push him, which, if you look at similar incidents in the past, his suspension was a lot longer than normal. Understandable, because of what followed. We can argue all we want about it in regards to whats worse, but in the end, what's done is done. But my opinion all comes down to, I think charging into the stands is worse than an overreaction and push after a foul. Both are wrong though. __________________ Go Pistons!

12-08-2004, 11:54 AM	#174 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	Yes, because he used a weapon with the intent to injure felony __________________ Feh.

11-28-2004, 12:56 AM	#162 (permalink)
DJ Happy Psycho	I don't understand how people can say that Wallace should've received the biggest suspension. He pushed another player on court, whereas Artest ran into the stands to attack and punch innocent spectators. How is the first worse than the second?

11-28-2004, 02:15 AM	#163 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	It's not that it is worse, it is that he started the entire mess. Had Wallace not shoved Artest, nothing would have happened.

11-28-2004, 02:26 AM	#164 (permalink)
DJ Happy Psycho	So Wallace shouldn't shove Artest because he knows that Artest has a ridiculous ego and a temper to match and that he will end up storming the stands and beating the fans? If someone at work irritates me and I get so pissed off I go home and beat my wife, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who would blame my colleague for my wife's beating. I don't think you can realistically hold Wallace responsible for Artest's actions. Everyone is resonsible for their own.

11-28-2004, 02:32 AM	#165 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	Good point, but after Wallace shoved Artest, he continued to pursue him even after Artest showed no retaliation; he wanted things to escalate further. Had he not, he would have stepped back after he saw Artest not fighting back.

11-28-2004, 04:35 AM	#166 (permalink)
DJ Happy Psycho	But doesn't that show that Artest wasn't really bothered by Wallace? He flipped after having that beer thrown at him. I believe he was lying down and having a nap until that happened.

11-28-2004, 12:41 PM	#167 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	I think he was already quite angry, I just think he kept the anger inside and when the fan threw the cup at him he completely exploded. Had a cup been thrown at him without the previous incident, I believe he probably wouldn't have over reacted. This situation could really be looked at in a bunch of different ways, but in the end, whats done is done, lets just hope it doesn't happen again.

12-01-2004, 05:32 PM	#169 (permalink)
Avail Crazy Location: Richmond, VA	Recently, two fans (the one that initially threw the cup at Artest and the one that went onto the court afterwards) have been banned from The Palace of Auburn Hills. Police are still conducting their investigation.

12-03-2004, 09:34 PM	#170 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	If they banned the fans from the palace for life why not Artest? That would be awesome if the pistons did that. The pacers come to town...oops sorry Mr. Artest you are not allowed on the property. scoot.

12-08-2004, 11:25 AM	#172 (permalink)
ToiletDuck Insane Location: In beautiful (YOUR AREA)	Bloomfield Hills attorney James W. Burdick, who represents Jackson, said it was "unfair and inappropriate" to charge his client for his actions during the brawl. Jackson is seen in TV footage punching fans in the stands. it gets better everytime i read this quote

12-08-2004, 11:25 AM	#173 (permalink)
ScottKuma Insane Location: Maineville, OH	Misdemeanors for everyone except for the fan that threw the chair. He gets a felony that could land him in jail for four years. What I want to know is this: Why does that guy get a felony, and all the players only get misdemeanors? Because he used a chair? I hope that they prosecute all of the players to the fullest extent of the law. I hope they get EVERY DAY of the 93 possible for each count. I also hope the fans get their arses thrown into jail, and also get their privelege to go to the Palace completely revoked. But, of course...everyone will get off with probation. Bah.

12-08-2004, 11:58 AM	#175 (permalink)
ScottKuma Insane Location: Maineville, OH	While I know this is the law, I also think that it's a bit ridiculous: So a trained athlete can't do more damage than a thrown chair? I know that the law can't cover everything, but I think I'd have thrown more charges at everyone involved. How about "inciting a riot?" How about "breaking the peace?"

12-08-2004, 12:15 PM	#176 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	The District Attorney has to figure out what charges will stick and will most likely get a conviction. I posted previously about the riot stuff and why the fight participants will only get charged with misdemeanors. Basically, it comes down to what the intent of their actions were; Artest, more than likely, did not try to kill someone. There isn't enough evidence for the DA to charge them with felony assault as it was a spur of the moment action and not planned. The chair-thrower, on the other hand, is facing a felony because of the manner in which it happened. The DA must believe or have evidence to show premeditation with the chair-thrower.