jcookc6

JEFF SUPPAN
I Rest my case.

Jay_Jay

David Ortiz is what came to mind from the headline, but I think you win.

djtestudo

Hell, Oritz was the guy who picked Suppan off!

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jobu

I don't think that is a case for having the DH. At some point Supan played the field, batted and ran the bases. Running the bases is all mental. Supan should have know what to do before the ball was put in play. If someone should be blamed it should be the base coach. If i recall, the replay showed him yelling at Supan to go. So that leads me to believe that Supan didn't have his head in the game.

Halx

I rather like National League games.. moreso than American League games. More dimensional strategy involved.

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Averett

I agree. The National League is much better baseball. More strategy, more options for the manager. I'd love to see the DH go away.

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toverfie

I enjoy NL baseball much better too....but I would like the leagues to keep as much individuality as possible....it really makes for more interest and drama (of sorts) during the Series...if they have the same everything it will take something away from mlb and world series in general. Hockey, football, basketball.....the championships are all the same...baseball is different and I find that appealing.....btw what ever happened to hockey )nhl)??? are they talking at all, or is it just going to silently slip away into the night?

Scipio

The best reason I can come up with for the DH is watching Pedro Martinez stand there and watch fast balls come through the middle of the strike zone, laugh, not swing, and go back to the dugout and high five his teammates after a four pitch strikeout.

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Glory's Sun

what the fuck was Suppan thinking?? geez I'm glad Boston got rid of him. The base coach told him to go and even if he didn't HELLO!! you're a pro, you know the strategies and you know what's going on. That mistake really hurt him and the cards...but Pedro was just unreal after that inning...

as far as NL vs. AL goes, I like the DH. I don't really see how the NL rules offer that much more strategy or options. Sure you can use more pinch hitters if you do alot of pitching changes, but if you don't then why not have a dh with a strong bat in there all the time versus a pitcher who rarely gets on base?? I'd rather see Ortiz swingin for homeruns in the DH position than watching Pedro smile as a 90 mph fastball whizzes by him.

aerozeppelin

Pinch hitting keeps it interesting though - is the offensive boost enough to compensate for the necesscary pitching change? Plus, it puts a hole in every team's lineup, meaning that team's have to plan around that hole. Plus, I think it keeps pitchers honest by making them go to the plate - if they decide to throw up and in, they can get thrown back it. It's also the way baseball was originally done - the DH is a 70's era rule, not some original American league characteristic.

One final note - SUPPAN IS AN IDIOT. He was closer to home than to third, and would have been at home if he hadn't stopped to watch Ortiz pick up the ball and make a play, and STILL tried to outrun a throw to third..... that cost probably 2 runs, as he kept renteria off third with that play.

darkness1162

one solution might be to stop babying these freaking pitchers and having them take batting practice and working on their swings. Some of these guys are excellent hitters in college or high school, but then are told it could somehow mess up their pitching. Once that happens, you could get rid of the DH rule.

absorbentishe

I can go either way with this rule. But... I hate to see a guy's career extended because he can ride the pine, but still get his AB's. No DH makes the game more interesting, but the DH adds more HR's, and that's what every one likes, right?

yoyoyobro

With the DH strategy comes to be a much bigger factor in the game. As far as Suppan's he is a pitcher, but that is a personal error not one that can be associated to him being a pitcher on the basepaths. As a Bluejays fan what comes to mind for me is that of Todd Stotelmyre running the basepaths with a warmup jacket on in the World Series. With this in mind I would still prefer that the DH be eliminated. Let the managers earn their money and let the players play the game if you sign miilion dollar contracts you can learn to play first base. In the World Series it also leaves the NL team at a huge disadvantage as they do not alocate a significant sum of money in their payroll like Boston does for example for Ortiz and they are left with a pinch hitter for the entire season as their DH. Someone who hasen't even received significant at bats in the playofss until the World Series.

aerozeppelin

I odn't think your last argument is very valid. NL teams, IMO, have an easier time adapting to AL rules than AL teams to NL rules iin the WS. NL teams have pinch hitters that they can just throw more at bats at playing AL style, but AL teams have to reorganize their lineup plus decide which bat to lose playing NL style, which IMO is more difficult than just subbing someone in at the pitcher spot or maybe switching the 8 and 9 spots at the most.

pan6467

I maybe alone but to me the best baseball games are pitchers duels. There's just something about watching a 2-1 or 1-0 ballgame that excites me. Or a no hitter wondering if the next pitch will get hit. Wondering how or even if the game is going to get blown open.

With the DH I don't see that, I see huge blowouts (CLE's win over the Yanks this year in da bronx .... what was it 22-0?) I see pitchers that get their ERA's kicked up and then they overpitch and blowout their arms at young ages.

Hell, if were up to me I'd raise the mound 6 inches (like it was until they believed pitchers had too much of an advantage and that someone like Bob Gibson was going to kill a man), get rid of the DH, give the pitchers the true strike zone (including giving the inside corner of the plate back), and prohibit batters from stepping out of the box when the pitcher is in his windup.

To me the casual fan likes the home run, the true fan and historian and lover of the game can see the nuances and the greatness of no DH.

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djtestudo

Teams have been blowing out other teams since the very beginning of baseball. Hell, the first official baseball game ended 21-1.

If a pitcher overpitches for that reason, it is his own damn fault, or that of his coaches, just like it has been since, once again, the very beginning of baseball.

Bull. I can see all that while still celebrating the lack of an automatic out in the lineup.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/of...s/batter_6.jsp

See 6.10.

There is no rule that says a DH MUST be used. If you are a manager in the AL and want to have that stratagy, you go right ahead.

I, on the other hand would rather let my pitchers focus on pitching, while giving my team an advantage over the other.

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Harry Cox

How about working on FUNDAMENTALS of the game? Screw the DH.

goppers

I have no interest in watching a pitcher get up there and hit .150. If I have to miss out on the double switch to see lineups that are strong one through nine I won't lose any sleep. The pitcher at the plate has a way of killing innings that doesn't add anything to the game for me. shrug. not that I really care.

canuckguy

i think its comical watching the pitchers hit but think its boring. but its not exciting to watch, the number 7 hitter, getting a double, they then walk the number 8 hitter, and then watch the pitcher foul off two lousy bunt attempts before grounding into an inning ending double play. ohh thats exciting. sure the national league has more strategy involved but, its baseball, not chess.

jcookc6

I guess some people enjoy seeing a team manufacture a run, etc.
To be a good hitter you have to face big league pitching on a daily basis, you can't be a good hitter just batting every 5 days. A pitcher in the National League with a .192 average would be considered a good hitter. If he was playing 2nd base batting .192 he would not be playing. So, if you enjoy watching a manager do double switching of the order making a pitching change in the 7th than National League baseball is for you.

guy44

The DH's time is gone. We no longer need more offense. Pitchers can now hit doubles or homers on a moderately decent level - some well enough that it doesn't make sense for them to bunt all the time. Strategy makes the game more fun.

Besides, watching (Frank Thomas/David Ortiz/Mo Vaughn/etc.) try and play the field is a whole lotta fun.

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Glory's Sun

you're right it was fun watching Ortiz throw Suppan out at third

Harry Cox

There are plenty of good hitting pitchers in the NL. Why? Because they are well rounded players and they have to hit every time they take the mound. AL pitchers never take any time working on their hitting because they don't have to hit. Then it really shows in the World Series. And while I'm at it, I think it will be a travesty if Edgar Martinez is elected to the Hall of Fame. How can someone who never picked up a glove be a HOF'er? He should be in the Hall of Great Hitters.

Glory's Sun

I was under the impression that Edgar has played in the field then moved into the DH role.. correct me if I'm wrong. Even if I am wrong it won't be a travesty. He one of the best pure hitters the game has seen. Hitting is an aspect of the game and he mastered it. Why is that so wrong?

yoyoyobro

As far as I know Edgar Martinez was always a DH and if not always at least for a LARGE majority of his career.

djtestudo

Martinez came up as a third baseman, and played there on and off for probably half of his career. Obviously he wasn't very good, but even if there wasn't a DH rule, he would have been a first baseman, or stayed at third, or something like that, so keeping him out of the hall of fame because of his DH status is just a dumb argument.

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archer2371

There should be a Constitutional Amendment against the DH.....








....and astroturf.

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boom29

It might be the case that NL teams can adapt easier to AL rules than the other way around, but the AL teams have a bigger advantage overall. No NL team has the luxury to keep an extra (good) batter on their bench just for the chance that he might become the DH in a World Series. The guys that end up DHing are for the most part not great hitters and don't have a lot of power. Granted, they might put their best hitter at DH and put the better defender on the field, but that doesn't change the fact that the substituted player is an a bench guy. The big advantage for the AL comes from the fact that the gap between the DHs (for AL and NL) is greater than the gap for the two pitchers. While the AL teams might have a slight dropoff in their offensive production, NL teams do not gain much in theirs.

I'm not sure if my explanation will come through clear, but I'm willing to clarify if needed.

aerozeppelin

That is sometimes true, but a good many AL teams don't have a very good DH - not significantly better than a quality pinch hitter anyways. Obviously, that isn't/wasn't true with the Sox, but not all AL teams have a David Ortiz. Hitting wise, I agree that the AL has a bigger advantage from the DH differential than the NL gets from the pitcher differential.

With that said, going to a NL ballpark can really screw with an AL team's lineup - taking a bat out, putting a hole in, and most likely many other changes. That's why I think the NL has a bigger overall homefield advantage compared to the AL - far less changes to make.

CheesePizzaMan

I hate the DH but like a few DHs that wouldn't necessarily have been given a shot to shine where the rule not in effect.

If I had the deciding vote, I'd get rid of it.

However, I loved watching players like Edgar and Erubiel Durazo--with zero fielding skills--shine in the DH spot. I guess I'm just a hypocrite.

Sue me.

But then get rid of the dh.

whiplash13

Mike Piazza definately needs to get traded to a AL team so he can DH. His firstbasemen skills are almost as bad as his ability to throw out runners as a catcher.

soloist124

picthers can't hit thats why.

darens42

i seem to recall there was this not too shabby pitcher who had a lot of hits & HRs...

he also played in the outfield in between his pitching assignments...

i forget his name... but i think he played for the bo sox & the yankees some years back

ah the good ol days

jcookc6

think his name was George Herman something, use to be a curse named after him.