Browns offer Winslow biggest TE deal in history - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Grondar · 07-30-2004, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Browns' offer meant to pressure Winslow, agent

BEREA, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns want to make rookie Kellen Winslow Jr. the highest paid tight end in NFL history.

The club has offered Winslow, the No. 6 overall pick in last April's draft, a contract that would exceed the $31 million deal Kansas City's Tony Gonzalez signed before the 2002 season. Gonzalez's deal included a $10 million signing bonus, the most ever paid to a tight end.

In an unusual move designed to put pressure on Winslow's agent, Kevin Poston, the Browns released a statement two hours before the club opened training camp to announce that they had made their "best offer" to the former University of Miami star. Teams almost never disclose contract figures -- even after the deal is done.

But the Browns publicly provided the framework for negotiations.

They said their deal matches the seven-year, $18 million contract safety Sean Taylor, the No. 5 overall pick and Winslow's former college teammate, signed earlier this week with the Washington Redskins.

Taylor received a $7.2 million signing bonus and a total package that could exceed $13 million in guaranteed compensation.

"Given the close personal and competitive relationship between Kellen and Sean Taylor, as well as their equal talent level on different sides of the football, we did not want to penalize Kellen for being picked one slot below his former teammate," Browns president John Collins said in the statement.

"Faced with the opportunity to get Kellen in camp on time, we made our best offer."

Kevin Poston and his brother Carl have a reputation for demanding the most for their clients. The Redskins announced before the draft they would not take Winslow because he was represented by the Postons.

In their statement, the Browns said they examined Gonzalez's deal. It said their offer "provides Kellen Winslow the opportunity to far exceed Gonzalez' compensation."

The Browns have had negotiations with Poston all week. The sides had face-to-face negotiations on Wednesday at the team's headquarters.

At the time, coach Butch Davis said the club would not negotiate in the media, but that is exactly where things have gone.

"That's clearly not what we're going to do not only with Kellen, but any of the draft choices not only this year but in future years," Davis said earlier this week.

The Browns traded a second-round pick to Detroit and moved up one spot from No. 7 to No. 6 so they could select Winslow, the son of Hall of Famer Kellen Winslow.

Cleveland's last three first-round picks -- center Jeff Faine, running back William Green and defensive tackle Gerard Warren -- briefly held out of camp before signing.

The Browns fear that if Poston rejects their offer, Winslow's holdout could be lengthy.

Article can be found HERE.

The ball is in Poston's court now.. Ideally, he accepts the deal and Winslow doesn't miss much time.

Glory's Sun · 07-30-2004, 02:36 PM

Winslow is going to be good..but will he have a team changing impact.. the browns are weak in alot of areas..

Grondar · 07-30-2004, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Winslow's agent rejects Browns' offer

BEREA, Ohio (AP) -- Kellen Winslow Jr.'s agents rejected a contract offer from the Cleveland Browns on Friday that would make him the highest paid tight end in NFL history.

Winslow, the No. 6 overall selection, was not on the field as the Browns held their first practice.

In an unusual move designed to put pressure on Winslow's agent, Kevin Poston, Browns president John Collins released a statement two hours before the club opened training camp to announce that the Browns had made their "best offer'' to Winslow.

...

The Browns' negotiating tactic is unusual because teams almost never disclose contract figures -- even after a deal is done. But the Browns, who earlier this week said they would keep talks private, publicly provided the framework for negotiations.

Poston wouldn't elaborate on his decision to reject the offer.

"I do not negotiate in the media,'' Poston told The Associated Press. "We are continuing to negotiate with the Browns to obtain for Kellen Winslow II his fair market value.''

Winslow's holdout began one day after the New York Giants gave No. 1 pick Eli Manning a rookie-record $20 million in guaranteed money and No. 2 overall pick Robert Gallery received a potential $18.5 million in guaranteed bonuses.

Full article can be found HERE.

Simply incredible...

djtestudo · 07-30-2004, 07:36 PM

Winslow will be a bust.

Spartak · 07-30-2004, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
Winslow will be a bust.

You've seen him play... right ?

I think he's a bit of a cunt for turning down the Browns' offer, frankly.

pan6467 · 07-30-2004, 10:42 PM

Remember JD Drew? He was supposed to be the next Mantle, he was going to be the greatest baseballer in 30 years. So he held out against Philly.

And held out because they wouldn't guarantee him a major league spot immediately (he would have to do time in the minors). Well, the Phillies caved and now finally some 5-6 years later he's showing his potential.

Same story in any league. The players that get these great draft offers and decide to hold out for more usually in the end turn out to be busts.

Did LeBron holdout? Those with talent take the great offers and show what they can do and get more the next contract.

If I were the Browns I'd say take our offer or don't play. And next year we'll draft you again and make the same offer only a year's salary less and we will continue to do so until you are worthless and crying in your beer at your neighborhood skid row bar talking about how great you could have been.

I know a team doesn't want to waste picks in drafts BUT, can you imagine the sign that would send. Especially if the other teams would say, "we ain't drafting him next year, he's the Browns property and they gave him a hell of a deal and he's putting personal gain over the team, don't want players like that on our teams."

It's time to stand up and show backbone against these overpriced pussies who cry that 18 million just isn't enough, when real people are barely making a living.

BigGov · 07-31-2004, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pan6467
It's time to stand up and show backbone against these overpriced pussies who cry that 18 million just isn't enough, when real people are barely making a living.

In MLB, it's one thing, but in the NFL it's completely different. Almost none of the money is guarenteed, and your life is almost guarenteed to be shortened by playing professionally. Factor in the pain week in and week out, and the little fact that it is just taking money away from the owners, and it doesn't seem that strange.

Meanwhile, it's bullshit if he thinks he should be paid more than players drafted above him, especially Taylor who was the best defensive player in the draft.

CoachAlan · 07-31-2004, 01:06 AM

It really doesn't matter that he will be the highest paid tight end. In the NFL, if you're drafted early in round one, your position in the draft determines your salary, not your position on the field.

If they truly matched salaries with his draft position, then holding out is messed up. But the salary reports within the article are inconsistent. At one point, they write that his deal is better than Tony Gonzalez's $31M deal. Then they write that his deal matches Sean Taylor's seven year, $18M deal.

Either way, with Eli Manning signing, the price has been generally set and the rest of the first-rounders should fall into line.

Rudel73 · 07-31-2004, 06:45 AM

his agents, the Postons, are complete asshats. They are known to want way more than the player is worth. Anyways, im a huge browns fan and they have the cap room to offer more so i dont really care as long as he gets signed!!

Artermis · 07-31-2004, 07:06 AM

It could be worth up to 40 mil with incentives. Why give a rookie a 40 mil contract without knowing if he can even do the job.

BTW the top 2 picks in this years draft are guaranteed 20 and 18.5 mil respectively. It is the lower round players who do not get anything guaranteed and I am so happy they do not in the NFL. I wish no league would do this. Look what guaranteed money did to Orlando with regards to G. Hill and Albert Belle and Mo Vaughn for the O's and Mets.

Do any of you get guaranteed money whether you work or not and whether or not you are as good as you say you are?

Art

Baldrick · 07-31-2004, 05:42 PM

While I'm not a Redskins fan at all (far from it), it sounds like they had the right idea. They passed on Winslow mostly because the Postons' were representing him. They expected this crap.

The highest paid Tight End in the NFL, and he hasn't even played a professional down? And his agents turn it down? How can anyone think that's okay?

djtestudo · 07-31-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartak
You've seen him play... right ?

Two words...

Ryan.
Leaf.

Remember him? Many thought he would be better then Peyton Manning?

Assholes tend to be busts when they are pressured, which is what Winslow is going to be if he ever signs.

His only advantage is his father, who played in the NFL and knows what goes on, and who I hope is beating him with a belt right now for being a shithead.

Spartak · 07-31-2004, 07:20 PM

Leaf was a (pathetic excuse for a) QB. QBs respond negatively to pressure like nobody else.

All Winslow has to do is run routs and catch the ball... oh and throw a block if he feels like it. Do you really think the Browns drafted him for his blocking ability ?

Assholes can peform and asshole back...

See: Terell Owens

djtestudo · 07-31-2004, 07:21 PM

He became an asshole after he proved himself.

Winslow has not.

Spartak · 07-31-2004, 07:24 PM

Not in the NFL.

But his team won the National Championship, and was one pass interference call away from another, or so I remember.

djtestudo · 07-31-2004, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartak
Not in the NFL.

But his team won the National Championship, and was one pass interference call away from another, or so I remember.

He's going from a winning program with so many of his teamates in the NFL to, well, the Cleveland Browns. He will be expected to do big things very quickly. That is a lot of pressure, when he hasn't had that much on him.

At the very least, he will be Jeremy Shockey; an overhyped player who hasn't produced anything near what he was suppsed to (at least not yet, the jury is still out).

quest1mark · 07-31-2004, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudel73
his agents, the Postons, are complete asshats. They are known to want way more than the player is worth.

Thank god that theyre sweating these details and they got Reggie Williams to sign the dotted line in Jacksonville!! hell yeah!

I think Kellen Winslow is over-rated and one cocky ass player. He already was being offered the highest salary for a tight end as well as a pretty damn good offer for his spot in the draft, but he refused it? He's got brass ones. Its hard for me to blame it on the agents when the guy is as cocky as he is.

"They're out there to kill you, so I'm out there to kill them. We don't care about anybody but this U. They're going after my legs. I'm going to come right back at them. I'm a ... soldier." - Kellen Winslow

Jadedfox · 08-02-2004, 06:47 AM

I already hate him and his agents. No disrespect to the Browns but I hope he's the next Ryan Leaf.

How can you turn that contract down when you haven't played a down in the NFL yet!

--jaded

Spartak · 08-02-2004, 03:47 PM

Oh, you think that's nuts ? Didn't Bron Bron get $150m from all his sponsors before he even stepped on an NBA court ?

VTBrian · 08-02-2004, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartak
You've seen him play... right ?

I think he's a bit of a cunt for turning down the Browns' offer, frankly.

I saw him play, I don't remeber him doing much against our secondary. A secondary that got destroyed by players not nearly as highly regaurded. I'm calling bust. He could be great, but I don't think hes got the heart or maturity to show up when hes needed.

Andrew · 08-03-2004, 04:57 PM

7 years and 18 million isn't that much. If that's all that's guaranteed, than he has a legitimate gripe. Players owe little loyalty to their team. Look at what the Titans did to E.G. Football eats players up and spits them out like no other league.

Andrew.

BigGov · 08-03-2004, 05:44 PM

I forgot that $18 million can't possibly get you an amazing mansion, an amazing stable of cars, and almost everything you could want money-wise in life. Not to mention football being the biggest sport in the USA and performing well opens many, many doors to sponsorship opportunities.

I hope he holds out, doesn't play, and gets absolutely nothing if he's this damn selfish.

djtestudo · 08-03-2004, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew
7 years and 18 million isn't that much. If that's all that's guaranteed, than he has a legitimate gripe. Players owe little loyalty to their team. Look at what the Titans did to E.G. Football eats players up and spits them out like no other league.

Andrew.

Well, he has at least this season's salary guarenteed, and unless his career ends this year, then next year's as well. So that's probably $30 million or so that can safely be called "guarenteed".

As for Eddie George, it's a shame what happened, but he hasn't been producing for the past three years, and refused to take a pay cut.

Grondar · 08-03-2004, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigGov
I forgot that $18 million can't possibly get you an amazing mansion, an amazing stable of cars, and almost everything you could want money-wise in life. Not to mention football being the biggest sport in the USA and performing well opens many, many doors to sponsorship opportunities.

I hope he holds out, doesn't play, and gets absolutely nothing if he's this damn selfish.

I agree.

I'm a fan of the Browns, and am excited to see KW play, but this is ridiculous.

CoachAlan · 08-03-2004, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigGov
I forgot that $18 million can't possibly get you an amazing mansion, an amazing stable of cars, and almost everything you could want money-wise in life. Not to mention football being the biggest sport in the USA and performing well opens many, many doors to sponsorship opportunities.

I hope he holds out, doesn't play, and gets absolutely nothing if he's this damn selfish.

Consider that a player's salary is relative to the amount of revenue the game generates. If the Browns don't pay out the money to their players, then it just stays in the pockets of the Lerner family.

Somebody's going to get rich off the NFL. Why would you prefer that it be the already-crazy-wealthy owners and not the players who put their bodies on the line every day? The Lerners are rich enough. Asking for income that's relative to the type of wealth you're expected to generate seems fairly reasonable to me.

Grondar · 08-03-2004, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoachAlan
Consider that a player's salary is relative to the amount of revenue the game generates. If the Browns don't pay out the money to their players, then it just stays in the pockets of the Lerner family.

Somebody's going to get rich off the NFL. Why would you prefer that it be the already-crazy-wealthy owners and not the players who put their bodies on the line every day? The Lerners are rich enough. Asking for income that's relative to the type of wealth you're expected to generate seems fairly reasonable to me.

I don't know much about the economics of football, but if they had to pay Kellen Winslow less, and he accepted a more reasonable deal, wouldn't that ultimately result in lower ticket prices and other fan-related costs?

Or no?

pan6467 · 08-03-2004, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoachAlan
Consider that a player's salary is relative to the amount of revenue the game generates. If the Browns don't pay out the money to their players, then it just stays in the pockets of the Lerner family.

Somebody's going to get rich off the NFL. Why would you prefer that it be the already-crazy-wealthy owners and not the players who put their bodies on the line every day? The Lerners are rich enough. Asking for income that's relative to the type of wealth you're expected to generate seems fairly reasonable to me.

That would be a good argument in Baseball or maybe basketball, but football is the ultimate team sport. I have never paid to see a football game just for a player. I have in Baseball, and basketball... well I've never gone but Lebron has me interested enough to think about going to a game.

I might have gone to see the Browns for Bernie, but without players like Slaughter, Byner, Mack, Mcneil and so on Bernie was useless and wouldn't be worth the money.

To say a player in the NFL raises revenue, to me is not even close to true. Cleveland will have full houses whether Kellen is there or not. And in the NFL injuries happen so often and if Kellen is injured for say 10 games he hasn't helped revenue, has he?

Kellen will only be as good as the defense and offense allow him to be. The past 2 years in Cleveland proved that. The offensive line didn't work as hard to protect Couch because he wasn't a team player. The offense worked a lot harder blocking for Holcomb because he wanted the team to do well and wasn't worried about his stats.

Point is there is NOONE in the NFL bigger than the team and to believe otherwise is to fall into that trap of allowing these boys who have never played a game to sit out until "their demands and needs are met" and not the teams.

If Kellen establishes himself the money will come. If he doesn't establish then he wasn't worth the signing and the well for him will dry up fast.

To me I'd kill to have the oppurtunity to make that kind of money. I'd do the best I could to prove I was worth every penny and I'd work my ass off to show that when contract time comes I deserve more. I wouldn't sit out and cry that I need more before I demonstrated what I could do.

College ball IS NOT the same as the NFL and anyone who thinks just because they starred in college they can star in the NFL is foolish and needs a psychologist to balance their ego. 2 time Heisman winner Archie Griffin didn't do anything in the NFL. Tim Couch couldn't, Ryan Leaf, and the list goes on and on with college greats who couldn't get the job done in the pros. It happens every year.

Perhaps, Kellen just doesn't want to be a Brown and is using this as an excuse. In which case he could tell the front office he truly doesn't want to play in Cleveland and they could work a deal and trade him away. I'm sure there's a team that could give the Browns a nice return for a selfish egotistical player who doesn't care about the team.

CoachAlan · 08-04-2004, 03:09 AM

When I wrote that a player's salary is relative to the revenue he generates, I meant it as part of the bigger picture. Imagine, as an example, that the Browns generate $200M in a given year. Kellen Winslow is a significant part of that revenue stream. He's not the ONLY part, but he is a part none the less.

The Browns are going to generate $200M whether they pay Winslow or not. What I'm saying, is that if Winslow doesn't go for his share of that pot, then it's just more money in the owners' pockets.

It would be nice if everyone involved could agree to live in 6,000 sqaure foot houses instead of 10,000 sqaure foot houses so that ticket prices would go down a few bucks, but that's not going to happen. The fact is, even with ticket prices higher than ever, NFL attendance is also higher than ever. With that being the case, I would contend that it's OK if a big chunk of that pie goes to the player.

pan6467 · 08-04-2004, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoachAlan
When I wrote that a player's salary is relative to the revenue he generates, I meant it as part of the bigger picture. Imagine, as an example, that the Browns generate $200M in a given year. Kellen Winslow is a significant part of that revenue stream. He's not the ONLY part, but he is a part none the less.

The Browns are going to generate $200M whether they pay Winslow or not. What I'm saying, is that if Winslow doesn't go for his share of that pot, then it's just more money in the owners' pockets.

It would be nice if everyone involved could agree to live in 6,000 sqaure foot houses instead of 10,000 sqaure foot houses so that ticket prices would go down a few bucks, but that's not going to happen. The fact is, even with ticket prices higher than ever, NFL attendance is also higher than ever. With that being the case, I would contend that it's OK if a big chunk of that pie goes to the player.

i understand what you are saying but the man has been offered BIG bucks already and hasn't taken the field.

If he had a few years in and showed he was a superstar and not just a college phenom then I could agree he needs to get all he can.

That's not the case though. The Browns are offering him the money equal to his draft choice (and more). If they offered him 11th or up pick money I could see the problem, but to make him the highest paid TE (over veterans) and offer him the same money as the 5th pick and he chooses to sit out for more then it is all about greed and being in it for himself.

I'm sorry you can use this revenue sharing type pay for veterans but not for draft choices who have yet to establish themselves.

To me sitting out like he is, is just showing he puts his needs and wants over the teams and in football, the ultimate US team sport I just do not think that is goos for either the player or the team and is divisive and brings far more negatives than positives.

Again I point to college players that signed big money contracts and did absolutely nothing. I feel ANY player has to put the time in and show he is worth it. Kellen maybe great but he has yet to show it.

BigGov · 08-04-2004, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoachAlan
Consider that a player's salary is relative to the amount of revenue the game generates. If the Browns don't pay out the money to their players, then it just stays in the pockets of the Lerner family.

Somebody's going to get rich off the NFL. Why would you prefer that it be the already-crazy-wealthy owners and not the players who put their bodies on the line every day? The Lerners are rich enough. Asking for income that's relative to the type of wealth you're expected to generate seems fairly reasonable to me.

Players that DESERVE to get the money have been getting the money. What was Payton's signing bonus? Something like $34.5 MILLION. At the Pro Bowl almost all of the star players there were thanking him because they can now rightfully demand a contract in that range and reasonably get it.

Payton was a first pick overall, is a Co-MVP, a key part of the Colts game, and cannot be replaced without modifications to the system.

Kellen Winslow is a sixth pick overall, is offered a contract (a very nice contract) which was equivilent to the person drafted ahead of him (who many say by far was the best defensive player in the draft). Oh, and would be a record for his position before he even played a down, without even proving ONCE that he is a good player, not even great, just good.

A big chunk of the pie DOES go to the players *who deserve it*. Rookies that haven't done jack shit in the league don't deserve a dime until they prove themselves. A record setting contract that falls in place on the draft board is 100% fair and reasonable. When Winslow shows me a few great seasons, then maybe he should be in the group of superstars, otherwise he's just a greedy S.O.B.

CoachAlan · 08-04-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoachAlan
It really doesn't matter that he will be the highest paid tight end. In the NFL, if you're drafted early in round one, your position in the draft determines your salary, not your position on the field.

If they truly matched salaries with his draft position, then holding out is messed up.

Yep, I wrote that only five short days ago. Since then, in my zeal to defend the high salary of the worker vs the owner, I forgot that Winslow was allegedly offered a fair deal (I don't know the exact details of the deal).

The NFL has stayed this good because it doesn't allow players' salaries to get out of line. In an article on the Browns' website, the team writes that they are negotiating with Winslow "with the integrity of the draft in mind."

Players need to respect the institution that has been run so well it can give them eight figure signing bonuses. I still contend that trying to get a raise is good, but biting the hand that feeds you, as Winslow appears to be doing, is obviously bad.

Anyway, high worker salaries = good. Rookie holdouts = bad. Your great points helped me remember what we were arguing about in the first place. I sit corrected.

pan6467 · 08-04-2004, 02:59 PM

Coach you are truly a BIG MAN and have my respect.

It is rare to see a man correct himself the way you did.

I truly applaud you.

heccubusiv · 08-04-2004, 07:16 PM

Can you blame him for not wanting to play in Clevand, i would hold out also...

/Go Steelers

pan6467 · 08-05-2004, 12:01 AM

Well you know we can't all be fans of the team that destroys QB careers and wastes talent.

Best thing the Steelers ever did was hire Cowher and keep giving him extensions. Gotta love a team that keeps a coach that can't get talent to perform.

As long as you have Cowher your team ain't going nowhere and will be eating dust from the Browns and Bengals.

heccubusiv · 08-08-2004, 07:18 PM

Eating dust from the browns, bengals maybee( or probably). Since the worst day in football history( when the browns got a team back '99) they have gone 8-3 against the Steelers... and when was the last browns super bowl win or apperance they did win a World Championship a while back but not even a superbowl opperance... while under Cowher the steelers have one.

/flamewar
/making fun of my grammar/spelling

Jesus Malverde · 08-10-2004, 01:51 PM

Damn John Clayton just said he thinks this Kellen Winslow holdout will last until the first or second regular season game. What is the deal with this guy? He better be the greatest TE of all time the way his agent is holding out for a monstrous deal. I already hated this jerk at Miami, now I might even hate him more than Eli Manning.

DDDDave · 08-10-2004, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo

His only advantage is his father, who played in the NFL and knows what goes on, and who I hope is beating him with a belt right now for being a shithead.

His father, a Hall of Famer, and arguably the greatest tight end ever, is also an attorney.

He helped KWII choose the Poston's as his agent. He knows their reputation as tough negotiators. The Browns are in over their heads against these guys. KW (Dad) knows this is 'professional' football and you have to negotiate hard to get the money while you can.

That being said, all these salaries are ridiculous. In Tampa, two years ago, after being let go by Jacksonville, Keenan McCardell signed a four year contract that will pay him 2.75MM this season. He is holding out because he wants 4+MM a year. The Bucs have said 'pound sand', a contract is a contract. Hard to see how a guy is willing to walk away from a job that will pay him $52,884. per week. A freakin' week. Ridiculous.

phyzix525 · 08-10-2004, 09:25 PM

I am a big browns fan and I was ashamed of the browns for wanting to have anything to do with him.

Jesus Malverde · 08-10-2004, 09:55 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1856711

Looks like this might be over.......

Keedo · 08-25-2004, 05:50 AM

So far, I have not really been impressed with Winslow. My take on this is that he will be a bust also, too much ego.

07-30-2004, 07:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Winslow will be a bust. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

07-30-2004, 10:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Remember JD Drew? He was supposed to be the next Mantle, he was going to be the greatest baseballer in 30 years. So he held out against Philly. And held out because they wouldn't guarantee him a major league spot immediately (he would have to do time in the minors). Well, the Phillies caved and now finally some 5-6 years later he's showing his potential. Same story in any league. The players that get these great draft offers and decide to hold out for more usually in the end turn out to be busts. Did LeBron holdout? Those with talent take the great offers and show what they can do and get more the next contract. If I were the Browns I'd say take our offer or don't play. And next year we'll draft you again and make the same offer only a year's salary less and we will continue to do so until you are worthless and crying in your beer at your neighborhood skid row bar talking about how great you could have been. I know a team doesn't want to waste picks in drafts BUT, can you imagine the sign that would send. Especially if the other teams would say, "we ain't drafting him next year, he's the Browns property and they gave him a hell of a deal and he's putting personal gain over the team, don't want players like that on our teams." It's time to stand up and show backbone against these overpriced pussies who cry that 18 million just isn't enough, when real people are barely making a living. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

07-31-2004, 01:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
CoachAlan Psycho Location: Las Vegas	It really doesn't matter that he will be the highest paid tight end. In the NFL, if you're drafted early in round one, your position in the draft determines your salary, not your position on the field. If they truly matched salaries with his draft position, then holding out is messed up. But the salary reports within the article are inconsistent. At one point, they write that his deal is better than Tony Gonzalez's $31M deal. Then they write that his deal matches Sean Taylor's seven year, $18M deal. Either way, with Eli Manning signing, the price has been generally set and the rest of the first-rounders should fall into line. __________________ "If I cannot smoke cigars in heaven, I shall not go!" - Mark Twain

07-31-2004, 05:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
Baldrick We are everywhere... Location: Barrie, Ontario	While I'm not a Redskins fan at all (far from it), it sounds like they had the right idea. They passed on Winslow mostly because the Postons' were representing him. They expected this crap. The highest paid Tight End in the NFL, and he hasn't even played a professional down? And his agents turn it down? How can anyone think that's okay? __________________ You can be young only once, but you can be immature for the rest of your life...

07-31-2004, 07:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
Spartak Bang bang Location: New Zealand	Leaf was a (pathetic excuse for a) QB. QBs respond negatively to pressure like nobody else. All Winslow has to do is run routs and catch the ball... oh and throw a block if he feels like it. Do you really think the Browns drafted him for his blocking ability ? Assholes can peform and asshole back... See: Terell Owens __________________ I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

07-30-2004, 02:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Winslow is going to be good..but will he have a team changing impact.. the browns are weak in alot of areas..

07-31-2004, 06:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
Rudel73 Psycho	his agents, the Postons, are complete asshats. They are known to want way more than the player is worth. Anyways, im a huge browns fan and they have the cap room to offer more so i dont really care as long as he gets signed!!

07-31-2004, 07:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
Artermis Insane Location: I live where all the morons live	It could be worth up to 40 mil with incentives. Why give a rookie a 40 mil contract without knowing if he can even do the job. BTW the top 2 picks in this years draft are guaranteed 20 and 18.5 mil respectively. It is the lower round players who do not get anything guaranteed and I am so happy they do not in the NFL. I wish no league would do this. Look what guaranteed money did to Orlando with regards to G. Hill and Albert Belle and Mo Vaughn for the O's and Mets. Do any of you get guaranteed money whether you work or not and whether or not you are as good as you say you are? Art

07-31-2004, 07:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	He became an asshole after he proved himself. Winslow has not. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

07-31-2004, 07:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Spartak Bang bang Location: New Zealand	Not in the NFL. But his team won the National Championship, and was one pass interference call away from another, or so I remember. __________________ I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

08-02-2004, 06:47 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jadedfox Egocentric Location: World of Warcraft	I already hate him and his agents. No disrespect to the Browns but I hope he's the next Ryan Leaf. How can you turn that contract down when you haven't played a down in the NFL yet! --jaded __________________ There is no fucking you, there is only me.

08-02-2004, 03:47 PM	#19 (permalink)
Spartak Bang bang Location: New Zealand	Oh, you think that's nuts ? Didn't Bron Bron get $150m from all his sponsors before he even stepped on an NBA court ? __________________ I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

08-03-2004, 04:57 PM	#21 (permalink)
Andrew Tilted	7 years and 18 million isn't that much. If that's all that's guaranteed, than he has a legitimate gripe. Players owe little loyalty to their team. Look at what the Titans did to E.G. Football eats players up and spits them out like no other league. Andrew.

08-03-2004, 05:44 PM	#22 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	I forgot that $18 million can't possibly get you an amazing mansion, an amazing stable of cars, and almost everything you could want money-wise in life. Not to mention football being the biggest sport in the USA and performing well opens many, many doors to sponsorship opportunities. I hope he holds out, doesn't play, and gets absolutely nothing if he's this damn selfish. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

08-04-2004, 03:09 AM	#28 (permalink)
CoachAlan Psycho Location: Las Vegas	When I wrote that a player's salary is relative to the revenue he generates, I meant it as part of the bigger picture. Imagine, as an example, that the Browns generate $200M in a given year. Kellen Winslow is a significant part of that revenue stream. He's not the ONLY part, but he is a part none the less. The Browns are going to generate $200M whether they pay Winslow or not. What I'm saying, is that if Winslow doesn't go for his share of that pot, then it's just more money in the owners' pockets. It would be nice if everyone involved could agree to live in 6,000 sqaure foot houses instead of 10,000 sqaure foot houses so that ticket prices would go down a few bucks, but that's not going to happen. The fact is, even with ticket prices higher than ever, NFL attendance is also higher than ever. With that being the case, I would contend that it's OK if a big chunk of that pie goes to the player. __________________ "If I cannot smoke cigars in heaven, I shall not go!" - Mark Twain

08-04-2004, 02:59 PM	#32 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Coach you are truly a BIG MAN and have my respect. It is rare to see a man correct himself the way you did. I truly applaud you. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

08-04-2004, 07:16 PM	#33 (permalink)
heccubusiv #1 Irish Fan Location: The Burgh	Can you blame him for not wanting to play in Clevand, i would hold out also... /Go Steelers __________________ Fuck Ohio

08-05-2004, 12:01 AM	#34 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Well you know we can't all be fans of the team that destroys QB careers and wastes talent. Best thing the Steelers ever did was hire Cowher and keep giving him extensions. Gotta love a team that keeps a coach that can't get talent to perform. As long as you have Cowher your team ain't going nowhere and will be eating dust from the Browns and Bengals. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

08-08-2004, 07:18 PM	#35 (permalink)
heccubusiv #1 Irish Fan Location: The Burgh	Eating dust from the browns, bengals maybee( or probably). Since the worst day in football history( when the browns got a team back '99) they have gone 8-3 against the Steelers... and when was the last browns super bowl win or apperance they did win a World Championship a while back but not even a superbowl opperance... while under Cowher the steelers have one. /flamewar /making fun of my grammar/spelling __________________ Fuck Ohio

08-10-2004, 01:51 PM	#36 (permalink)
Jesus Malverde Psycho Location: Sinaloa, Mexico	Damn John Clayton just said he thinks this Kellen Winslow holdout will last until the first or second regular season game. What is the deal with this guy? He better be the greatest TE of all time the way his agent is holding out for a monstrous deal. I already hated this jerk at Miami, now I might even hate him more than Eli Manning. __________________ ...I'm that cat by the bar toasting to the good life...

08-10-2004, 09:25 PM	#38 (permalink)
phyzix525 Psycho Location: Broken Arrow, OK	I am a big browns fan and I was ashamed of the browns for wanting to have anything to do with him. __________________ It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

08-10-2004, 09:55 PM	#39 (permalink)
Jesus Malverde Psycho Location: Sinaloa, Mexico	http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1856711 Looks like this might be over....... __________________ ...I'm that cat by the bar toasting to the good life...

08-25-2004, 05:50 AM	#40 (permalink)
Keedo Tilted	So far, I have not really been impressed with Winslow. My take on this is that he will be a bust also, too much ego.