kutulu

In light of Gagne's blown save I was wondering who people thought was the most dominant relief pitcher in MLB. It could be a closer, a set-up guy, or whatever. Gagne obviously comes to mind. He strikes out guys at an amazing rate but my choice has to be Danny Kolb, the closer for the Brew Crew.

Kolb has been just a little more effective at keeping runners off base than Gagne but they way he's done it is totally different. He's only K'ed 11 batters in 33 IP but he is such an extreme ground ball pitcher that he has allowed ZERO extra base hits. With most closers you can hope to tie a 1 run game with a HR off the guy's fastball but you shouldn't even think about it with Kolb.

He's given up 3 total runs in only 2 games this year with 1 blown save. It's really surprising that virtually no press people have even mentioned him.

Halx

My vote goes to Gagne still. I watched the Dodgers dismantle Kolb... he wasn't the most confident looking person I could recall. Gagne retains his composure through the rough spots.. that's why he is who he is.

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dylanmarsh

I try to view this sort of debate with which pitcher I wouldn't want to face personally. With that said, Gagne scares the crap out of me. Three equally tough pitches that he can locate and all coming from virtually the same arm angle. A close second would be Mariano.

If we're talking all-time and not current players, I'd go with Mitch Williams. Absolutely no control of his pitches and one is guaranteed to be a fastball in the ear.

KWSN

Fuckin' Gagne. Easily.

A few years ago it would have been Alfonseca or Nenn.

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kutulu

Gagne looked bad on Monday night, does that make him so-so? He may have got out of the inning after Tracy tied the game but his pitches were missing the zone by a lot afterwards. McCracken and Brito are both bad hitters.

The Dodgers got a hit batter and three singles in one game against Kolb. That's hardly dismantling him. In the three other games they went 1,2,3. Keep in mind that he allowed a run in only 1 other game so far this season and no extra base hits.

Gagne is definitely deserving but I think Kolb's accomplishments (and the entire Brewer team) have been totally overlooked this season. They are in 3rd place in the NL Central. When was the last time they weren't practically eliminated at this point in the season?

djtestudo

I will go with B.J. Ryan vs. lefties. In 50 at-bats, lefthanded hitters have had exactly TWO (2) hits off of him, with 24 strikeouts. A .040 batting average! That is simply impossible.

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Cross-Over

This is one debate where statistics hold a lot of weight, and they clearly favor Gagne.

Smoltz and Revera (sp?) are in that league as well, and Benitez has been great this year too.

kutulu

Why, because of K's? There's a lot of other ways to get outs. Their WHIP's are almost identical with Kolb having a slight lead. His ERA is also less than half of Gagne's

SAM821

Armando Benitez deserves some recognition, especially with the turnaround he had from being practially kicked out of New York

Also I think Overall Mariano Rivera is more dominating

BigGov

Mariano is number 1 in my opinion. With the current set of pitchers, he's the most experienced, and and has been extremely consistant.

84 consecutive saves is great and all, but how many really mattered? Zippo. Nadda. None.

If you ask Gagne yourself, he'll tell you he isn't the best reliever in baseball, he hasn't come close to performing at the level of Mariano. When he does, and if he succeeds, then it will be fair, but until then, he isn't the best.

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kutulu

Gagne has been better than Rivera over the last 3 years. It doesn't matter that the Bums never made the playoffs.

One thing that is more respectable about Rivera than Gagne is that Torre brings him in with runners on more times. On the other hand, in the few situations where Gagne did inherit runners, he held them on better than Mo did.

Closers in general are way too coddled.

dylanmarsh

I'd agree that Kolb has been very good this year, but one has to factor in intimidation, etc. Gagne and Rivera are both feared by just about everyone in baseball. When it comes down to it any manager out there would put Gagne or Rivera on the mound in a heartbeat over Kolb.

jasonresno

(tom) gordon, quantrill, rivera, armando benitez, gagne, have all been ace this year.

Cross-Over

No, thats not what I meant. The statistics I am referring to are can be found HERE and HERE

Kolb just started showing some ability last year, but his numbers weren't incredible by any stretch.
A half a years worth of great stats doesn't indicate dominance to me.

Show me a pattern of success and continued excellence, Gagne and Rivera, and I'll buy it.