MLB: Biggest All-Star Snub - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 07-05-2004, 02:15 PM

I know you all know who I think was the biggest snub for the All Star game this year...

Adrian Beltre

4th in home runs, .322 BA, the best glove and arm at 3rd base in baseball, and he does all of this on a bad ankle. Why did he get snubbed? Because Todd Helton was the only name worth mentioning on the Colorado Rockies, and you have to include one player from every team. Adrian was even left off the fan voting ballot. What a crock.

buclao · 07-05-2004, 03:26 PM

I have a list...

Bobby Abreu
Paul Konerko
Eric Milton
Adrian Beltre

All those are great players and Milton even won 11 games.

Nimbletoe · 07-05-2004, 03:27 PM

Giambi!

Oh, wait...

goddfather40 · 07-05-2004, 03:49 PM

Beltre deserves to be there, Melvin Mora is second in the AL in batting and probably 'deserves' to be there. Unfortunately, as Hal alluded to, when every team must have at least one representative, the snubbery will continue year after year.

kutulu · 07-05-2004, 07:31 PM

Lyle Overbay nobody could have expected his performance this year.

Overbay
.340/.405/.551 43R, 35 2B (leads MLB) 9HR, 61RBI

Beltre
.318/.353/.578 46R, 17 2B, 21HR, 55 RBI

Overbay took Sexson's place and made Brewer fans forget who Richie was.

djtestudo · 07-05-2004, 07:37 PM

I'll go with Melvin Mora, but only because I am a homer

Someone who probably won't get a mention on here is Orioles reliever B.J. Ryan.

Code:

   Split   AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS   BAA  OBP  SLG  OPS 
vs. Left   48 2  0  0 0   2   5  0  24  0  0  .042 .130 .042 .171 
vs. Right 112 28 5  1 0  14  15  0  37  3  0  .250 .333 .313 .646

He is absolutely LIGHTS OUT against lefties, and very good agaisnt righties. Giambi called him the toughest pitcher he has faced last year. SHould be on the team.

pan6467 · 07-06-2004, 06:42 AM

Would liked to have seen Adam Dunn on the team.

But hey, who's complaining, the REDS have Jr., Casey, Graves and (even though it's probably sentimental and as a tribute) Larkin.

AND the glorious TRIBE takes 4 possibly 5 with Belliard, Sabbathia, Martinez and Lawton (and maybe Hafner).

It's a great time to be livin it large in OHIO. 8 maybe 9 All stars, that is showing who has the teams. Can anyone say OHIO holds baseball's future baby.

The REDS haven't really been fading and are in the hunt.... bye, bye Houston and Cubbies, too many injuries and egos killed you all. Even if the REDS do falter, I love their chances next year in probably the best division in baseball. All Lindner has to do is open his wallet for some pitching, they have the hitting and JR. ain't goin nowhere, now that he is healthy and regaining form..... mmmmm doggie those REDS are back in town baby.

The TRIBE has a great lineup and SP. with Boone coming in and a couple deals for RP, the TRIBE will reclaim the Central and the A.L.

Can we all say this year's All-Star Game dominated by Ohio's teams is a prelude to the I-71 WS next year?

Livin it large in OHIO where we rule baseball.

(Sorry just some trash talk, that's part of the fun in sports. Hope noone truly gets all that offended.)

Peetster · 07-06-2004, 06:58 AM

I'll agree with Adrian Beltre, BJ Ryan and Melvin Mora.

The snubbage continues.

kutulu · 07-06-2004, 09:36 AM

I just don't get how people could say Beltre was snubbed and Overbay wasn't

djtestudo · 07-06-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kutulu
I just don't get how people could say Beltre was snubbed and Overbay wasn't

He's better at his position then Overbay at his.

Blackthorn · 07-06-2004, 10:25 AM

Adam Dunn from the 'nati is another good candidate for the snubbage colar. He's got 24 dingers and 9 assists from left field. Of course he's leading the universe in strike outs too

but hey....he hits tape measure jobs that are great for All Star games.

Sargeman · 07-06-2004, 10:43 AM

I'm a Dodgers Homer so I have to agree with Adrian Beltre being snubbed.

Also it's too bad about Carlos Beltran. IMO I think he should be an honorary member of the NL team.

Bobaphat · 07-06-2004, 10:48 AM

I agree that Beltre deserves to be on the team, but at the same time, I don't have a problem with him being left off the ballot. historically, he has been a disappointing player and its only this season that he has begun to live up to his potential. Its safe to say he will be included on next years ballot.

kutulu · 07-06-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by djtestudo
He's better at his position then Overbay at his.

If you were looking at an important side of the fielding spectrum (such as a 2B, SS, C, or CF) I'd give you that but we're talking about corner infielders here. With the exception of 2000, Beltre has been a way below average player his entire career. Overbay is a second year player who is dominating.

Halx · 07-06-2004, 01:06 PM

but for the *2004* All Star Game... Beltre is better

kutulu · 07-06-2004, 01:40 PM

Actually he's not. As I said, Overbay has more RBI, 50 points more in OBP and 20 point more in batting average.

BigGov · 07-06-2004, 01:59 PM

No. Everyone's way off. It's Carlos Beltran.

He's one of the best players in baseball, he was voted onto the AL team, but Selig won't let him play for the NL.

kutulu · 07-06-2004, 03:14 PM

It's hard to say that Beltran not playing for the NL team is a travesty when you have someone like Finley who has almost the same numbers. Beltran has 14 more RBI but Finley has a batting average that is 20 points higher. Other than that the numbers are almost identical with Finley getting 1 more HR, a couple more doubles, and Beltran has more SB.

lazyaznguy · 07-06-2004, 11:00 PM

Overbay plays 1st base, a fairly deep position in the NL. Pujols, Thome, Helton, those are MVP caliber guys.

The thing with Beltre is that he's so much better than Mike Lowell, who made the team. Not only are his numbers awesome (and better than Lowells), but he's carried the Dodgers offense for most of the season. And his defense is just flat out incredible. All of this on a bad ankle.

The Beltran thing is messed up, fucking Bud Selig ruins everything.

pan6467 · 07-07-2004, 04:19 AM

With Casey on the DL, Beltre may get the nod.

kutulu · 07-07-2004, 09:03 AM

I don't think it's fair to blame Selig for this. Now that the AS game decides who has home field advantage (which I do not agree with) it means something. Therefore if a player switches leagues he surely can't play for the league he was previously in. Just inserting him into the lineup of the new league is also unfair to players with similar accomplishments over the season and didn't get in (Beltran vs. Finley)

bellzboy · 07-07-2004, 01:22 PM

Im gonna go with Paul Konerko because the one player from the White Sox who made it before him sure as hell didnt deserve it. Loaiza is the third best pitcher on the sox right now, much less the best player on the Sox overall.

djtestudo · 07-07-2004, 01:23 PM

How many players did the Marlins get?

If Lowell was the only one, that ends that argument.

thephuse · 07-07-2004, 02:11 PM

Beltran.. I kno he's "part of the team" but come on.. wth?

kutulu · 07-07-2004, 04:25 PM

Cabrerra, Finley, and Beltran all have about the same numbers. Excluding any or all is no big deal to me.

Quote:

Originally posted by lazyaznguy
The thing with Beltre is that he's so much better than Mike Lowell, who made the team. Not only are his numbers awesome (and better than Lowells), but he's carried the Dodgers offense for most of the season. And his defense is just flat out incredible. All of this on a bad ankle.

I don't see Beltre as being so much better than Lowell offensively. It's basically a wash.

Beltre has:
4 less runs, 7 less doubles, 1 less triple, 3 more HR, 5 more RBI.
Beltre: .318/.356/.585/.942
Lowell .301/.377/.561/.938
Offensively, they are virtually the same player.

Defensively:
Same amount of errors. Beltre's fielding% is 0.002 higher
Defensively, they are the same player.

Chances are you could have them switch places and nobody would notice. Since Lowell is the guy with the history of being a top 3B, he should get the nod.

lazyaznguy · 07-07-2004, 07:44 PM

kutulu · 07-08-2004, 12:23 PM

You have to be carefull when using situational stats. They have a small sample size and generally vary greatly from year to year. As you increase the sample size over a few years, the numbers converge to reflect a player's career stats.

Both of them only have 48 AB in a 2 out RISP situation. That's not enough data to make a strong case. If you expand it to RISP, it's:

Beltre - .294/.337/.565
Lowell - .286/.394/.429

At least expanding it to general RISP, you increase the sample size to about 80 AB for both.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when anouncers misuse statisics. Some of the situational stats are so restricted that a player may onle have 20AB in that situation and it's completely meaningless.

I still don't get the defensive differences. They have the same amount of errors and virtually the same fielding percentage.

I definitely don't buy into the thinking that having better players on your team should make you less worthy of awards.

Beltre is worthy of being on the All-Star team, I won't deny that. However, when I look at all their numbers I don't see either of them as being above or beyond the other player. Aramis Ramirez has pretty much the same numbers (hitting and defense) as both of them also...

I will say that it was a joke that Juan Pierre was included in the final fan vote (at least he didn't win). Sure he's stolen 20 bases but he's also been caught 13 times (less than a 66% success rate)

The whole All-Star system is a sham anyways. Hideki Matsui is on the freaking team for the second time! In neither season he did nothing spectacular with the bat while playing as a corner outfielder (a position that is supposed to be heavily weighted towards offense) At least this season he actually is putting up semi-worthy All Star numbers.

One last thing: There's no way in hell that Sammy Sosa, Alou, or Danny Graves deserved their spots on the team. So what if Graves had 31 saves, he's blown 7 saves. That makes him an average closer at best who has had a lot of chances.

KWSN · 07-08-2004, 02:46 PM

Pretty much what a lot of people have said, plus fucking Melvin Mora. I don't think Piazza should have made it... plus hes not even a fucking catcher anymore! There wasnt that much in the way of a replacement though. Anyway, there were better Mets than Piazza that could have made the team, especially in light of their play in the last several weeks... Hidalgo has been hot as a motherfucker lately, not to mention Wigginton, Matsui, and Floyd too all of a sudden. Matsui really seems like hes coming into his own and is playing like he means it now, Wiggintons been swinging the stick real well despite all this talk about his imminent disposal, and Floyd has been great at the plate and in the field too, he had a fucking amazing catch the other night. Anyway, I think that the wrong Met was picked for the team but whatever.

I also think that when a team has 8 (or 7, i forget) all-stars, they should be fucking broken up by the league. It's ridiculous and simply shouldn't happen. There is actually only one player in the Yankees' entire all-star lineup that isn't at least very close to all-star caliber, and that's Enrique Wilson.... and even he came in like 4th in voting for his position. If the Yankees won the world series this year it would be pathetic if you ask me. It's pretty much like having either the NL or AL all-star team play regular teams all year (how many times do the yankees get to play the devil rays??? that's a luxury not many teams get). Anyway, maybe I'm ranting being a Mets fan and all but I think that the Yankees are ust ludicrous at this point... and am HELLA GLAD that the Mets swept them :-D

Blu2e354 · 07-08-2004, 02:48 PM

Halx saying, "Beltre has the best glove and arm at 3rd base," is laughable. Rolen has a way better arm and glove. What about aramiz he is deserving also.

Halx · 07-08-2004, 03:03 PM

You're using stats to compare players when you should be looking at video. Beltre is, if anything, spectacular to watch at 3rd base.

And I would expect an Illinois homer to claim that about Rolen... you don't get many Dodgers games broadcasted out there, I bet.

kutulu · 07-08-2004, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
You're using stats to compare players when you should be looking at video. Beltre is, if anything, spectacular to watch at 3rd base.

Stats are the ONLY way to compare players. There is a big difference between making tough plays and making them look easy. Craig Counsell is such an amazing defensive player (2B, SS, 3B). He knows where to set up, he knows which plays he can get to, etc. You'll never confuse him with a guy that is flashy but he'll make every play the flashy guy made.

Looking at video is exactly why Dontrelle Willis was the rookie of the year last season. He was flashy as hell but he numbers paled in comparison to Podsednik and Webb.

redcigar · 07-11-2004, 03:56 PM

Eric Milton.

BigGov · 07-11-2004, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kutulu
Stats are the ONLY way to compare players. There is a big difference between making tough plays and making them look easy. Craig Counsell is such an amazing defensive player (2B, SS, 3B). He knows where to set up, he knows which plays he can get to, etc. You'll never confuse him with a guy that is flashy but he'll make every play the flashy guy made.

Looking at video is exactly why Dontrelle Willis was the rookie of the year last season. He was flashy as hell but he numbers paled in comparison to Podsednik and Webb.

Stats do players like Jeter no justice though. Have you ever seen A-Rod make a play like the "Flip"? Have you ever seen Nomar dive into the stands like he did a week or two ago?

That kind of thing cannot be measured or ignored.

goddfather40 · 07-11-2004, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kutulu
Cabrerra, Finley, and Beltran all have about the same numbers. Excluding any or all is no big deal to me.

I don't see Beltre as being so much better than Lowell offensively. It's basically a wash.

Beltre has:
4 less runs, 7 less doubles, 1 less triple, 3 more HR, 5 more RBI.
Beltre: .318/.356/.585/.942
Lowell .301/.377/.561/.938
Offensively, they are virtually the same player.

Defensively:
Same amount of errors. Beltre's fielding% is 0.002 higher
Defensively, they are the same player.

Chances are you could have them switch places and nobody would notice. Since Lowell is the guy with the history of being a top 3B, he should get the nod.

You can't just look at fielding percentage as the only indicator of defensive strength. Beltre seems to make plays that most 3rd baseman don't make. If you look at a couple of obscure but useful stats, most notably RF (range factor) and ZF (zone factor), Beltre has a decided advantage over Lowell, and compares favorably to even Scott Rolen, the generally regarded best 3rd basemen in the league.

For an explanation of RF and ZF see here.

kutulu · 07-12-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy4
Stats do players like Jeter no justice though.

Stats show that Jeter is not even close to as great as the NY media would like you to believe. They expose him as an overrated defensive player. It was disgusting that ARod was the one who had to move to 3B.

japhyryder · 07-12-2004, 10:57 AM

Eric Milton, who can have a good era have the new Corrs Field

bellzboy · 07-12-2004, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kutulu
Stats show that Jeter is not even close to as great as the NY media would like you to believe. They expose him as an overrated defensive player. It was disgusting that ARod was the one who had to move to 3B.

Derek Jeter IS the Yankees. The guy leads that team, he plays as hard as anyone in the majors every single day, he is clutch, and he has seniority. And if A-Rod is that much better defensively, all the more reason to have him move, he can better adjust. Derek Jeter is much more than his stats, he makes that team play hard and not just rely on their amazing talent. Ryan Freel is the only guy I can think of who would have made that play diving into the stands that he made, and Jeter didn't take out an old lady.

And I don't even like the Yankees.

perripken · 07-12-2004, 02:45 PM

I'm with djtestudo on Melvin Mora!

kutulu · 07-12-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bellzboy
And if A-Rod is that much better defensively, all the more reason to have him move, he can better adjust.

Shortstop is much more important than 3B defensively. Jeter should have been the one to move. Moving to shortstop would have been the perfect way for him to display his leadership skills.

kutulu · 07-12-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by japhyryder
Eric Milton, who can have a good era have the new Corrs Field

Please tell me you're joking. Eric Milton is this year's Russ Ortiz. He's made 18 starts and only 9 have been quality starts (6 or more IP, 3 ER or less).

NL Starters sorted by run support

Without that run support he'd be a .500 W% at best. Run support does not make someone a good pitcher.

07-05-2004, 02:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	MLB: Biggest All-Star Snub I know you all know who I think was the biggest snub for the All Star game this year... Adrian Beltre 4th in home runs, .322 BA, the best glove and arm at 3rd base in baseball, and he does all of this on a bad ankle. Why did he get snubbed? Because Todd Helton was the only name worth mentioning on the Colorado Rockies, and you have to include one player from every team. Adrian was even left off the fan voting ballot. What a crock. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

07-05-2004, 03:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	Giambi! Oh, wait... __________________ Go Pistons!

07-05-2004, 03:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
goddfather40 Llama Location: Cali-for-nye-a	Beltre deserves to be there, Melvin Mora is second in the AL in batting and probably 'deserves' to be there. Unfortunately, as Hal alluded to, when every team must have at least one representative, the snubbery will continue year after year. __________________ My name is goddfather40 and I approved this message. I got ho's and I got bitches, In C++ I branch with switches -MC Plus+

07-05-2004, 07:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	I'll go with Melvin Mora, but only because I am a homer Someone who probably won't get a mention on here is Orioles reliever B.J. Ryan. Code: Split AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS BAA OBP SLG OPS vs. Left 48 2 0 0 0 2 5 0 24 0 0 .042 .130 .042 .171 vs. Right 112 28 5 1 0 14 15 0 37 3 0 .250 .333 .313 .646 He is absolutely LIGHTS OUT against lefties, and very good agaisnt righties. Giambi called him the toughest pitcher he has faced last year. SHould be on the team. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun Last edited by djtestudo; 07-05-2004 at 07:44 PM..

07-06-2004, 06:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Would liked to have seen Adam Dunn on the team. But hey, who's complaining, the REDS have Jr., Casey, Graves and (even though it's probably sentimental and as a tribute) Larkin. AND the glorious TRIBE takes 4 possibly 5 with Belliard, Sabbathia, Martinez and Lawton (and maybe Hafner). It's a great time to be livin it large in OHIO. 8 maybe 9 All stars, that is showing who has the teams. Can anyone say OHIO holds baseball's future baby. The REDS haven't really been fading and are in the hunt.... bye, bye Houston and Cubbies, too many injuries and egos killed you all. Even if the REDS do falter, I love their chances next year in probably the best division in baseball. All Lindner has to do is open his wallet for some pitching, they have the hitting and JR. ain't goin nowhere, now that he is healthy and regaining form..... mmmmm doggie those REDS are back in town baby. The TRIBE has a great lineup and SP. with Boone coming in and a couple deals for RP, the TRIBE will reclaim the Central and the A.L. Can we all say this year's All-Star Game dominated by Ohio's teams is a prelude to the I-71 WS next year? Livin it large in OHIO where we rule baseball. (Sorry just some trash talk, that's part of the fun in sports. Hope noone truly gets all that offended.) __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 07-06-2004 at 06:49 AM..

07-05-2004, 03:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
buclao Insane	I have a list... Bobby Abreu Paul Konerko Eric Milton Adrian Beltre All those are great players and Milton even won 11 games.

07-05-2004, 07:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Lyle Overbay nobody could have expected his performance this year. Overbay .340/.405/.551 43R, 35 2B (leads MLB) 9HR, 61RBI Beltre .318/.353/.578 46R, 17 2B, 21HR, 55 RBI Overbay took Sexson's place and made Brewer fans forget who Richie was.

07-06-2004, 06:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	I'll agree with Adrian Beltre, BJ Ryan and Melvin Mora. The snubbage continues.

07-06-2004, 09:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I just don't get how people could say Beltre was snubbed and Overbay wasn't

07-06-2004, 10:25 AM	#11 (permalink)
Blackthorn Beware the Mad Irish Location: Wish I was on the N17...	Adam Dunn from the 'nati is another good candidate for the snubbage colar. He's got 24 dingers and 9 assists from left field. Of course he's leading the universe in strike outs too but hey....he hits tape measure jobs that are great for All Star games. __________________ What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

07-06-2004, 10:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
Sargeman Insane Location: Texas	I'm a Dodgers Homer so I have to agree with Adrian Beltre being snubbed. Also it's too bad about Carlos Beltran. IMO I think he should be an honorary member of the NL team. __________________ ...because there are no facts, there is no truth, just data to be manipulated. I can get you any results you like, what's it worth to you.....

07-06-2004, 10:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
Bobaphat whoopity doo Location: Seattle	I agree that Beltre deserves to be on the team, but at the same time, I don't have a problem with him being left off the ballot. historically, he has been a disappointing player and its only this season that he has begun to live up to his potential. Its safe to say he will be included on next years ballot. __________________ --size matters not-- yoda

07-06-2004, 01:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	but for the 2004 All Star Game... Beltre is better __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

07-06-2004, 01:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Actually he's not. As I said, Overbay has more RBI, 50 points more in OBP and 20 point more in batting average.

07-06-2004, 01:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
BigGov WoW or Class... Location: UWW	No. Everyone's way off. It's Carlos Beltran. He's one of the best players in baseball, he was voted onto the AL team, but Selig won't let him play for the NL. __________________ One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

07-07-2004, 07:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
lazyaznguy Upright	.. Last edited by lazyaznguy; 02-05-2011 at 08:52 AM..

07-06-2004, 03:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	It's hard to say that Beltran not playing for the NL team is a travesty when you have someone like Finley who has almost the same numbers. Beltran has 14 more RBI but Finley has a batting average that is 20 points higher. Other than that the numbers are almost identical with Finley getting 1 more HR, a couple more doubles, and Beltran has more SB.

07-06-2004, 11:00 PM	#19 (permalink)
lazyaznguy Upright	Overbay plays 1st base, a fairly deep position in the NL. Pujols, Thome, Helton, those are MVP caliber guys. The thing with Beltre is that he's so much better than Mike Lowell, who made the team. Not only are his numbers awesome (and better than Lowells), but he's carried the Dodgers offense for most of the season. And his defense is just flat out incredible. All of this on a bad ankle. The Beltran thing is messed up, fucking Bud Selig ruins everything.

07-07-2004, 04:19 AM	#20 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	With Casey on the DL, Beltre may get the nod. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

07-07-2004, 09:03 AM	#21 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I don't think it's fair to blame Selig for this. Now that the AS game decides who has home field advantage (which I do not agree with) it means something. Therefore if a player switches leagues he surely can't play for the league he was previously in. Just inserting him into the lineup of the new league is also unfair to players with similar accomplishments over the season and didn't get in (Beltran vs. Finley)

07-07-2004, 01:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
bellzboy Crazy	Im gonna go with Paul Konerko because the one player from the White Sox who made it before him sure as hell didnt deserve it. Loaiza is the third best pitcher on the sox right now, much less the best player on the Sox overall.

07-07-2004, 01:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	How many players did the Marlins get? If Lowell was the only one, that ends that argument. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

07-07-2004, 02:11 PM	#24 (permalink)
thephuse Psycho Location: NY	Beltran.. I kno he's "part of the team" but come on.. wth? __________________ b000yahed up your w000pah!! Joygasm~!!

07-08-2004, 12:23 PM	#27 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	You have to be carefull when using situational stats. They have a small sample size and generally vary greatly from year to year. As you increase the sample size over a few years, the numbers converge to reflect a player's career stats. Both of them only have 48 AB in a 2 out RISP situation. That's not enough data to make a strong case. If you expand it to RISP, it's: Beltre - .294/.337/.565 Lowell - .286/.394/.429 At least expanding it to general RISP, you increase the sample size to about 80 AB for both. One of my biggest pet peeves is when anouncers misuse statisics. Some of the situational stats are so restricted that a player may onle have 20AB in that situation and it's completely meaningless. I still don't get the defensive differences. They have the same amount of errors and virtually the same fielding percentage. I definitely don't buy into the thinking that having better players on your team should make you less worthy of awards. Beltre is worthy of being on the All-Star team, I won't deny that. However, when I look at all their numbers I don't see either of them as being above or beyond the other player. Aramis Ramirez has pretty much the same numbers (hitting and defense) as both of them also... I will say that it was a joke that Juan Pierre was included in the final fan vote (at least he didn't win). Sure he's stolen 20 bases but he's also been caught 13 times (less than a 66% success rate) The whole All-Star system is a sham anyways. Hideki Matsui is on the freaking team for the second time! In neither season he did nothing spectacular with the bat while playing as a corner outfielder (a position that is supposed to be heavily weighted towards offense) At least this season he actually is putting up semi-worthy All Star numbers. One last thing: There's no way in hell that Sammy Sosa, Alou, or Danny Graves deserved their spots on the team. So what if Graves had 31 saves, he's blown 7 saves. That makes him an average closer at best who has had a lot of chances.

07-08-2004, 02:46 PM	#28 (permalink)
KWSN green	Pretty much what a lot of people have said, plus fucking Melvin Mora. I don't think Piazza should have made it... plus hes not even a fucking catcher anymore! There wasnt that much in the way of a replacement though. Anyway, there were better Mets than Piazza that could have made the team, especially in light of their play in the last several weeks... Hidalgo has been hot as a motherfucker lately, not to mention Wigginton, Matsui, and Floyd too all of a sudden. Matsui really seems like hes coming into his own and is playing like he means it now, Wiggintons been swinging the stick real well despite all this talk about his imminent disposal, and Floyd has been great at the plate and in the field too, he had a fucking amazing catch the other night. Anyway, I think that the wrong Met was picked for the team but whatever. I also think that when a team has 8 (or 7, i forget) all-stars, they should be fucking broken up by the league. It's ridiculous and simply shouldn't happen. There is actually only one player in the Yankees' entire all-star lineup that isn't at least very close to all-star caliber, and that's Enrique Wilson.... and even he came in like 4th in voting for his position. If the Yankees won the world series this year it would be pathetic if you ask me. It's pretty much like having either the NL or AL all-star team play regular teams all year (how many times do the yankees get to play the devil rays??? that's a luxury not many teams get). Anyway, maybe I'm ranting being a Mets fan and all but I think that the Yankees are ust ludicrous at this point... and am HELLA GLAD that the Mets swept them :-D __________________ Your arms are broken!

07-08-2004, 02:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
Blu2e354 Crazy Location: Illinois	Halx saying, "Beltre has the best glove and arm at 3rd base," is laughable. Rolen has a way better arm and glove. What about aramiz he is deserving also.

07-08-2004, 03:03 PM	#30 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	You're using stats to compare players when you should be looking at video. Beltre is, if anything, spectacular to watch at 3rd base. And I would expect an Illinois homer to claim that about Rolen... you don't get many Dodgers games broadcasted out there, I bet. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

07-11-2004, 03:56 PM	#32 (permalink)
redcigar Upright	Eric Milton.

07-12-2004, 10:57 AM	#36 (permalink)
japhyryder no one special Location: Charlotte, NC	Eric Milton, who can have a good era have the new Corrs Field __________________ It's only entertainment, someone's sick idea of a joke.

07-12-2004, 02:45 PM	#38 (permalink)
perripken Now a registered fossil Location: Home of the shrinking Kodak	I'm with djtestudo on Melvin Mora! __________________ And in the end, it’s not the years in your life that count. It’s the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln