frolichoek

I know this is something that is probably beaten into submission every year about this time, but I was really frustrated with the inconsistencey of the officiating in the Stars-Lanche game last night. Granted, I am looking with a biased eye, but I counted at least 6 picks that were set by the Avalanche, including the goal that won the game in 2OT.

Why do we even have referees if they aren't going to enforce the most basic rules of the game? Hopefully, the Stars will set a few in the next game, but chances are the refs will be in a penalty-calling mood and it will just backfire...until the Avalanche decide to set another one.

docbungle

Give me a break. All the goalie interference on Abeischer isn't called, yet when Turco runs into an Avs player they call that on the Avs player. It goes both ways. It always has and always will.

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Ace_O_Spades

Officiating isnt flawless lets face it

people are fallable, you cant expect them to see everything that goes on during play

they do 1000% better than any armchair fan would

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Feh.

silent_jay

The officiating is just all around bad, not one sided in any way, in any series that I have watched, and I have watched them all, just plain bad, nothing else describes it.

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BigGov

They're letting the players play, the last thing they want to do is have the playoffs come down to ticky tack penalties they call.

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silent_jay

Letting the players play, what games have you been watching, and these ticky tack, I think you meant tit fot tat penalties have been going on since the playoffs started, you see the main problem with the referees is that they forget the rules for the playoffs, suddenly obstruction goes out the window, diving is forgotten, you can all of a sudden throw picks anywhere you want on the ice, they call a slash everytime these piece of shit 1 piece sticks breaks, even though you can blow on them and they will break. The refs have their heads shoved so far up their asses maybe they can get them out for next years playoffs(if they have them.)

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gnl3434

I agree with silent jay, the officiating in general sucks. Look at the high stick to Drapers face in game 4 at nashvile if you need proof. He needed 6 stitches to close it up and there was no call!
That whole game was called poorly.

frolichoek

Ticky Tack penalties are not the issue I brought up. I don't expect the refs to call a penalty on a play that doesn't affect the outcome of the play directly. But setting picks (and goaltender interference) is a pretty influential penalty that can seriously effect the outcome of the game. You would never see an NFL offical not call a forward pass beyone the line of scrimmage just because it is the playoffs. I don't think it is unreasonable that the referees should be expected to officiate the game within the context of the rules.

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ickma

While I do agree that a lot of calls are missed and there are even more that are called and shouldn't be, you have to give the refs a break. There are ten players and two goalies on the ice at all times and there are only two referees. They can't see everything at once and they do their best job to try to call what they do see. Also, there is a whole fleet of refs out there, not just one. Each one of them is going to percieve the game differently and call different things. A younger ref might think that obstruction is ruining the game while and older more classic ref might want to call only the most blatant of penalties and keep the game going. Considering the crap some of the players do out there, the refs are doing not so bad of a job.

frolichoek

I agree that officiating is one of the most difficult jobs in the world (relative, of course). I also understand that it is much easier to be a NFL and MLB offiicial, as the rules are much less subjective.

Why is it though that every single year the officiating in the NBA and NHL come under fire for not calling the rules ???

Why is it that I can see that it is a BLATANT rules violation from my TV and the "experienced" official doesn't? Better yet, he probably sees it but "decides" not to call it! To me, this is one of the reasons the NHL is in real trouble. If we are going to just let the players decide the game, why have refs? Just so they cal call high sticking penalties? Mike Modano hits an Avalanche player in the shoulder with his stick, and the referee has no qualms about calling it immediately. Why is high-sticking not subjected to the decision making process?

Personally, I think that the whole "let the players decide it" argument is bullshit. We see the results of letting the players decide it every day, with the clutching and grabbing in the neutral zone. It is ruining the game slowly but surely.

I love the game of hockey more than most sports. I believe it the purest sport out there, but one of the most basic parts of any sport is the RULES that the players need to abide by. If picks were made illegal at one point, it is because one team or person was gaining an advantage from it. If we aren't calling the rules of the game as defined, then there is no point for the rule, which means the sport is inherently flawed. If I could cheat in checkers, then I would win every time. But I can't. I have to play within the context of the rules. All that I ask is that a competitor is mandated to play within the defined rules of the game.

Is that so wrong?

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Ace_O_Spades

Im happy that everyone here thinks they are better Officials than the men on the ice... Especially when we have a birds eye view of the action...

cut them some slack people

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Feh.

frolichoek

I love the way that you continue to miss my point. I will not cut them some slack if they are obviously deciding to not call a penalty.

I will cut them some slack if they can't see everything, or the action happes too fast, or that there is a lot going on.

Whenever an official decides to arbitrarily not call a penalty because of the situation, matchups, or how many penalties have already been called, they are tampering with the fabric of the game.

Like my earlier point, everyone would be screaming at the TV if Peyton Manning made an pass beyond the line of scrimmage. An NFL official would call that. He wouldn't say "Boy, we sure have called a lot of penalties on the Colts today. I don't think I should call that.". This is exactly what happens in the NHL and NBA, so much that the players now expect it. Shaq will whine that the officials didn't call a foul on someone defending him, but he commits an offensive foul virtually every time he touches the ball. If the game were called according to the rules, Shaq would foul out in the first quarter of every game.

And, I never claimed that I could do a better job than any of the professionals on the ice, court, whatever. I simply have the expectation that they do the job they are paid to do....make the playing field even for both teams.

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silent_jay

I agree, the 2 referees were supposed to make the game better, and well they have proven that doesn't work, maybe next year they can have 3 refs and 4 linesmen and let the linesmen call penalties as well that sounds like and NHL excuse.

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frolichoek

Yeah, I think that the 2 ref system has failed. What good does it do to have 4 eyes that don't call penalties? One ref did a good enough job of that.

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FleaCircus

Hockey goes by so quick that it's no surprise that refs miss some things. I'm sure there's no way I'd call a game perfectly from ice-level.

That, said, if a ref's going to call a penalty, he's got to call it right. Example: Sakic took a high stick to the face from Modano, was very obviouly bleeding, and the refs only called it a 2 minute minor, not a double minor (which should be automatic with the blood).

Okay, next question: Since the players have to take a bit at the beginning of the game to adjust to how the refs are going to call it, why don't they use the same crew of officials for the length of a playoff series, instead of switching refs each game?

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Ace_O_Spades

because... that would make too much sense?

seriously... i dont think anyone has an answer!

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Feh.

Serpent

I think officiating does need abit of an overhaul.. They HAVE to make the calls that are illegal and disturb the flow of the game, even if its quadruple overtime.

Serpent

Because some refs are bought out... usually the case most of the time.

silent_jay

They don't use the same refs throughout the series because the referee can develop a bias towards one team, whether it be for abusing him verbally, or he just has it in for a player or players from previous experience, but seriously having the same referees call the whole series isn't appropriate because things like this can happen.

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ForgottenKnight

Agreed. It goes both ways. I've seen tons of penalties against the Aves not called. I went to one of the games and saw the refs make some bad calls, and not call some penalties, for both teams, from 15 feet off the ice. It's not one sided, though it seems that way if you're only looking at what happens to one team and not what your team is doing.

It's bad, but then, it's a tough job. While we at home have a birds eye view of it all, they've got a side view where their view of a penalty can be blocked out by some action or something in between their position and where the penalty happens. They've also made some really good calls. Shouldn't we give them a bit of credit for those ones dispite them missing or choosing not to call all the rest?
We can't blame everything on the refs no matter how hard we would like to. We can only hope that our players rise up above the reffing (good or bad) to win the game.

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Ace_O_Spades

Wow, you could really see the refs ptting away the whistle in the OT of the canucks game 6

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Feh.

silent_jay

See OT rolls around and the whistle goes away, yet in regulation, penalties called, no consistency among officials.
So when all you people are telling us to give them a break, just remember when a player screws up the fans are all over him, so why not the referee as well?

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Nikilidstrom

Until the refs are held accountable for their shitty calls or non calls, NHL hockey will always be viewed as a marginal sport by outsiders and non-fans. Everytime I'm watching a game with someone who has never seen hockey before, their #1 complaint is that they can't tell what is a penalty and what isn't a penalty. And all I can tell them is, the refs don't either. Its hard to gain new audiences when they can't understand what is going on in the game.

silent_jay

I highly doubt hockey is viewed as a "marginal sport", and if these people are non-fans or outsoders then does their opinion on the sport really matter? I think not. They obviously have no knowledge of what they are watching so they are forming a bad opinion because they can't understand what they are watching.

I agree the refs need to be held responsible, but does the NHL have the balls to see to this? I doubt it.

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frolichoek

I think hockey is in danger of being viewed as a marginal sport. It isn't there yet, but if the CBA doesn't do what it is supposed to do this next season, hockey is in grave danger of being surpassed by other sports.

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crackpot

Sort of on topic... has anyone else noticed that the refs are throwing a lot of guys out of the face offs? Watching the Habs-Bruins series, I musta seen it happen a trillion times... is it just me?
Felt like they got told to buckle down on minor faceoff infractions, but I don't like when it manifests itself in such an obvious way (well, to me at least).

frolichoek

Another example of a "rule" that is called consistently regardless of the time of year. If they are so insistent on calling that rule by the book, why do all of the other ones fall by the wayside?

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Nikilidstrom

Wake up man. The people you are insulting, those attempting to get into hockey for the first time, are the very people the NHL desperately needs to win over to remain viable. And if they can't understand the game for a legitimate reason, such as inconsistent penalty calling, then the blame does not lie on them. I sure as hell am glad that when I was 6 and was starting to get interested in hockey, I didn't run into that attitude everytime I didn't understand something.

And I didn't say hockey was viewed as marginal, I said NHL hockey is viewed as marginal. Europeans are starting to look away from the NHL and concentrate on regional play, and the Russians are looking into starting up a national league to compete with the NHL, and have been trying to lure their players back for years now. Not to mention the WHL idea of Hull's, who is looking to strike while the iron is hot when the CBA expires.

And no, as long as Bettman is around, the NHL head office will never have any balls, for this or any other issue.

silent_jay

I wasn't referring to people that ask questions about the game, I was referring to the non-fans that start wanting to make all kinds of drastic rule cahnges when they really have no knowledge to base an opinion on.

I have no problem with people asking questions about what is apenalty and what isn't, or why something happened that is something I like to see so people do gain the knowledge to have an opinion on the game, it the people who have no desire to learn anything and just want to change everything that I have a problem with.

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silent_jay

I wasn't referring to people that ask questions about the game, I was referring to the non-fans that start wanting to make all kinds of drastic rule cahnges when they really have no knowledge to base an opinion on.

I have no problem with people asking questions about what is a penalty and what isn't, or why something happened that is something I like to see so people do gain the knowledge to have an opinion on the game, it is the people who have no desire to learn anything and just want to change everything that I have a problem with.

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bond007

in the final minute of the game (or in OT), the officals won't call anything unless it is blatantly a foul...

are we talking NHL officals or NBA???

silent_jay

NHL, the thread is called NHL officiating, or else I've been talking about the wrong sport and I know nothing about basketball, oh no what have i done.

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feelgood

Look at this way, try to see the game from the surface of the ice. You think you can see everything? Bullshit. The referee are suppose to watch 10 players on the ice and try to spot every penalty? Since when did human beings become perfect?

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Go_AVS

I know I am just bitter but I think the officiating really SUCKS when it comes to Forsberg. The damn refs call him all the time but never the guy who is mauling him. I just don't f@#king get it!!! The refs will be sending Forsberg away for ever with their lack of calls. I hope the damn refs will be happy losing one of the best players in the world from the NHL...

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frolichoek

I can't speak for just one player, such as Forsberg, but it is this kind of thing that the NHL just has to fix. A player like Forsberg, at the top of the league in skill, can be completely held in check by a guy who couldn't carry his jock because that defender is allowed to grab, clutch, slash, etc. If Forsberg is allowed to skate freely (like the rules say he should), the game would be a hell of a lot more interesting to watch.

The NFL does a really good job of making sure that the star players are the focus of the game because of their skill. The NBA does a decent job of it. The NHL is the only sport where a 300k a year thug can keep an 8 million dollar player down.

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Serpent

Oh and what really gets me is when refs call a penalty when there was not one.. The announcer here last night for the lightining was about to start swearing over the call where suposidly modin had covered the puck with his hand.. When he was really putting it back down on the ice..

frolichoek

Yeah, that is frustrating, but at least you can make the argument that it was a bad judgement call, not a political no-call.

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Quadraton

From the NHL Rulebook:
He didn't put it down on the ice. He put it down on the ice a good couple of feet away from the Habs player, but not too far that he couldn't run away with the puck. He gave himself the distinct upperhand by gaining territory. In this case, the ref actually made the right call.

And to further my point, a lot of people seem to criticize refereeing without knowing too much about what it's like to be a referee.

The other day, I was playing a game of hockey, and down at ice level, it felt as though the game were moving at a fairly rapid pace. On this day, one of the wives decided to bring her camera along, and after watching the playback, I couldn't believe how amazingly slow we looked. I mean, we're not exactly a low skill team, but even then, it looked as though we were skating on tar.

I can only imagine then what the game of hockey at the NHL level must feel like down at ice level. So, it's understandable that a referee (or two) can't possibly call them all, even the blatant ones. A referee has only a split second to make a decision before 10 other things happen on the ice. On top of that, their view is obscured being down at ice level, and they have to be concerned with maintaining the flow of the game. It also doesn't help that there are ~20,000 self-appointed "referees" in the stands who all think they could do a better job.

Are calls missed? Yes. Are unnecessary calls made? Absolutely. Is refereeing a perfect science. No. The best you can do is improve the training, maintain a high level of communication, both on and off the ice, and hope that the game is officiated at a respectable level.

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