The changing landscape of College Football - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

RoadRage · 11-04-2003, 08:23 PM

It's now official. The Big East has invited Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida (plus all-but-football DePaul and Marquette) to join them. In response, Conference USA has invited Marshall, Central Florida, Rice, Tulsa, and SMU to join them; definitely a better response than litigation.

According to CollegeBCS.com, the following schools are below the 15K butts-in-the-seats standard that starts next year: Buffalo (MAC), Kent State (MAC), Idaho (SB), Louisiana-Monroe (SB), Eastern Michigan (MAC), Middle Tennessee State (SB), Louisiana-Lafayette (SB), Central Michigan (MAC), and Akron (MAC).

Net result with other slated realignments:

Big XII, no change
Big 10, no change
SEC, no change
Pac-10, no change
ACC: add Miami FL, Virginia Tech, Boston College
Big East: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, PIttsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, West Virginia
Conference USA: Alabama-Birmingham, Central Florida, East Carolina, Houston, Marshall, Memphis, Rice, Southern Methodist, Southern Mississippi, TCU, Tulane, Tulsa
WAC: Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Louisiana Tech, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Jose State, UTEP, Utah State
MAC: Miami OH, Ohio, Bowling Green, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Western Michigan, Ball State
Sun Belt: Arkansas State, North Texas, Troy State
Independent: Army, Navy, Norte Dame, Temple, Florida A&M

Akron and Central Michigan are less than 500 below the 15K mark, so the MAC may survive with 9 members.

The Sun Belt is fatally wounded, having only 3 members left. Troy State is a bit too far east for the WAC, the MAC will likely pick them up to ensure at least 8 teams for themselves. Arkansas State and North Texas help keep Louisiana Tech in the WAC by giving them a couple of relatively close road games.

The addition of up-and-coming South Florida with perennial homecoming attendent Louisville and more-known-for-basketball Cincinnati maybe enough to keep the Big East with a BCS bid. With the dissolution of the Sun Belt, maybe everyone dances or (more likely) the lesser conferences share a spot or two at the table.

Maybe the only question left is if North Texas will lose a Sun Belt Conference football game before there is no longer a Sun Belt football Conference.

The_Dude · 11-04-2003, 08:47 PM

i'm happy cuz the big bad 12 is still the way it is (#1).

Artermis · 11-04-2003, 10:53 PM

Dude I do not want to prove once again on how wrong you are about that.

Art

The_Dude · 11-04-2003, 10:55 PM

a big xii team is going to win the national championship

gov135 · 11-05-2003, 06:51 AM

Anyhow, without this thread deteriorating into ripping the Big12 a new orafice, here is what I think about "the changing landscape of college football"

1. Marshall and Central Florida should be ashamed. While Cincinatti and Louisville and friends can justify their move to the Big East based on a move to better competition, Marshall and UCF are definitely moving down in competition - both in football and basketball. This is a money play, pure and simple. Sure, Marshall and UCF owe no alliegance to the MAC. But they do owe an alliegence to their fans, who (in the case of Marshall) travel to all MAC away games. This will not be the case in CONF-USA.

2. RoadRage is right about Akron and Central Michigan. They will easily maintain 15,000 plus. But I'd also throw Kent State into that category - they'll appeal to the community, they have a large contingent of graduates - they'll get the behinds in the seats.

3. I can't see the Big East getting a BCS bid. South Florida and Cincy aren't enough. The automatic bids should just be reduced - and let those schools fight it out in the weak Big East for an at large bid.

4. Does the state of Idaho contain 15,000 people to fulfill the requirement? If Idaho is finally booted out of I-A, does that mean that they can't become Pac-10 fodder anymore? Anyone else sick of seeing Idaho being scheduled against Washington, USC, Oregon, and Oregon State the first three weeks? Are those Pac-10 schools allowed to play teams like Boise State instead? (end rant)

5. Temple would make a nice addition to the MAC. They won't do it, but it would be a nice fit. I think they play other sports in conference - they are probably prevented from just playing football in the MAC.

6. Those Louisiana schools are best off in I-AA where they started. They are absolutely miserable - let them play and have success at the I-AA level.

The_Dude · 11-05-2003, 07:34 AM

ok, back on topic.

this is sad how these schools do not hesitate to take the better offer.

the schools get bitchy at other schools when they take up offers when they would do the same thing in their dreams.

there is absolutely no conference loyalty for some of these schools.

bond007 · 11-05-2003, 08:48 AM

Marshall and UCF both, ultimately, want to join the Big East.

Artermis · 11-05-2003, 10:30 AM

Big East will not keep their BCS bid. Louisville main reason was because they think the Big E will but I cannot see that happening unless ND comes to the rescue for them or maybe PSU?

I never understood why Marshall and CF were ever in the MAC. I can see Marshall more than i can see CF there. Big East will be too big with 16 teams. I think it is just a diaster waiting to happen. Too many teams and not enough of a payout at the end of it all.

Art

b1naryb0r1s · 11-06-2003, 06:25 AM

So what happens to the teams that didn't make the cutoff for the 15k fans? Demoted to Div 1-AA? Sad for Middle Tennessee State to get demoted, but it's probably best for them in the long run since I don't think they even could win the AA title.

absorbentishe · 11-06-2003, 09:16 AM

The MAC teams had a great rivalry with Marshal. I kind of hate to see them go. Several years ago, when C-USA was founded, Toledo was mentioned to join, but the didn't want to leave the MAC, so there they stay. CFlorida's membership in the MAC was pretty subject at best.

The Big East I think was looking to be more a Basketball power house than in football with those moves.

Liquor Dealer · 11-06-2003, 12:19 PM

I don't think the Big 12 is going to change anytime soon but I think change is imminent. Parts of the old SWC that were added to the Big 8 to make the Big 12 should have gone elsewhere - at the moment the team that comes most to mind is Baylor. I'm not sure where Baylor belongs but I don't think they can last in the Big 12 - and there are a couple of others that are questionable.

dy156 · 11-06-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
I don't think the Big 12 is going to change anytime soon but I think change is imminent. Parts of the old SWC that were added to the Big 8 to make the Big 12 should have gone elsewhere - at the moment the team that comes most to mind is Baylor. I'm not sure where Baylor belongs but I don't think they can last in the Big 12 - and there are a couple of others that are questionable.

Breathe.
1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10...

Okay.

(trying not to get all riled up again)

With all due respect, please see my postings in this thread that I think covers that same question.

http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ghlight=Baylor

Liquor Dealer · 11-06-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dy156
Breathe.
1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10...

Okay.

(trying not to get all riled up again)

With all due respect, please see my postings in this thread that I think covers that same question.

http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread....ghlight=Baylor

OK - I went back and read it again - What I stated has absolutely nothing to do with what has transpired in the past month - or few months - Baylor does not participate at the same level as do most of the other schools in the Big 12 - and I did mention or at least hint towards K-State when I said there are others in the Big 12 that wouldn't be missed.

RoadRage · 11-06-2003, 02:09 PM

Oh yeah, the Baylor issue; not exactly the prettiest can of worms to be opening.

Those booted from I-A would almost certainly become I-AA Independents until they find a conference with whom to affilitate.

Idaho's stadium capacity is only 16K. They have to average 93% attendence to maintain the minimum I-A standard. There are more than 16K people in Idaho, but most won't come down out of the mountains just to watch a football game.

Kent State's average this season is 11216. That's one hell of an attendence drive needed to reach 15K.

Temple is Atlantic 10 in basketball. I don't have information about them with other sports.

dy156 · 11-06-2003, 03:07 PM

Okay, I'm better now.

I wish we still played TCU. I know we will soon, but
I just hope that it's not in the same conference for awhile.

The_Dude · 11-06-2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
OK - I went back and read it again - What I stated has absolutely nothing to do with what has transpired in the past month - or few months - Baylor does not participate at the same level as do most of the other schools in the Big 12 - and I did mention or at least hint towards K-State when I said there are others in the Big 12 that wouldn't be missed.

u're kidding me! k-state? WHAT?

if there is anyone at risk, it would be iowa state.

k-state has a women's basketball team that reached the elite eight or the final four last year. their football team is having an off year this year, but bill snyder is like 4th in the # of wins from 1990. k-state is here to stay.

Artermis · 11-07-2003, 07:07 AM

Yeah must be hard to get to 4th in the # of wins since 90 when he averages 2 DIAA teams a year.

How many times has Texas won the Big 12 football title? Winning your division does not really count since people only remember who won the big game. Texas is 0-3...very nice.

Lets check B-Ball....one regular season conf champ. (1999) The year before guess who had a better league record...uh oh...yep it was Baylor. Texas has an awe inspiring 7-6 record in Big 12 tournament. Baylor is 4-6...man you are right Texas is so much better than Baylor in this sport also.

All confernces have and need teams like Baylor in them. If not then you would have a bunch of 8-4 teams and none of them having a chance to reach the Big Game and the total money brought in would be pretty low and then you would complain about too much parity.

Why not go back to telling us how much you need a new coach....at least this is true..

Road do you really want me to start on the Arkansas program?

Art

RoadRage · 11-07-2003, 08:18 AM

More like don't get me started. Nolan Richardson is GOD. Frank Broyles (AD) is still a Klansman at heart. Houston Nutt shows signs of promise, then promptly shoots himself in the foot.

Arkansas started all this realignment craze back in 1990 when they decided to leave the Southworst Conference for the Southeast Conference. Most of the alums would have rather gone to the Big 8, but playing national powers other than just Texas was good too.

SSJwrestler · 11-07-2003, 08:49 AM

VA Tech rules all

RoadRage · 11-07-2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SSJwrestler
VA Tech rules all

… except West Virginia.

11-04-2003, 08:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
RoadRage Stay off the sidewalk! Location: Oklahoma City, OK	The changing landscape of College Football It's now official. The Big East has invited Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida (plus all-but-football DePaul and Marquette) to join them. In response, Conference USA has invited Marshall, Central Florida, Rice, Tulsa, and SMU to join them; definitely a better response than litigation. According to CollegeBCS.com, the following schools are below the 15K butts-in-the-seats standard that starts next year: Buffalo (MAC), Kent State (MAC), Idaho (SB), Louisiana-Monroe (SB), Eastern Michigan (MAC), Middle Tennessee State (SB), Louisiana-Lafayette (SB), Central Michigan (MAC), and Akron (MAC). Net result with other slated realignments: Big XII, no change Big 10, no change SEC, no change Pac-10, no change ACC: add Miami FL, Virginia Tech, Boston College Big East: Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, PIttsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, West Virginia Conference USA: Alabama-Birmingham, Central Florida, East Carolina, Houston, Marshall, Memphis, Rice, Southern Methodist, Southern Mississippi, TCU, Tulane, Tulsa WAC: Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Louisiana Tech, Nevada, New Mexico State, San Jose State, UTEP, Utah State MAC: Miami OH, Ohio, Bowling Green, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Western Michigan, Ball State Sun Belt: Arkansas State, North Texas, Troy State Independent: Army, Navy, Norte Dame, Temple, Florida A&M Akron and Central Michigan are less than 500 below the 15K mark, so the MAC may survive with 9 members. The Sun Belt is fatally wounded, having only 3 members left. Troy State is a bit too far east for the WAC, the MAC will likely pick them up to ensure at least 8 teams for themselves. Arkansas State and North Texas help keep Louisiana Tech in the WAC by giving them a couple of relatively close road games. The addition of up-and-coming South Florida with perennial homecoming attendent Louisville and more-known-for-basketball Cincinnati maybe enough to keep the Big East with a BCS bid. With the dissolution of the Sun Belt, maybe everyone dances or (more likely) the lesser conferences share a spot or two at the table. Maybe the only question left is if North Texas will lose a Sun Belt Conference football game before there is no longer a Sun Belt football Conference. __________________ Join TFP Team SETI 43K workunits complete, 34 members, more of each needed. Last edited by RoadRage; 11-04-2003 at 08:25 PM..

11-04-2003, 08:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i'm happy cuz the big bad 12 is still the way it is (#1). __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

11-04-2003, 10:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	a big xii team is going to win the national championship __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

11-05-2003, 07:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	ok, back on topic. this is sad how these schools do not hesitate to take the better offer. the schools get bitchy at other schools when they take up offers when they would do the same thing in their dreams. there is absolutely no conference loyalty for some of these schools. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

11-06-2003, 12:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I don't think the Big 12 is going to change anytime soon but I think change is imminent. Parts of the old SWC that were added to the Big 8 to make the Big 12 should have gone elsewhere - at the moment the team that comes most to mind is Baylor. I'm not sure where Baylor belongs but I don't think they can last in the Big 12 - and there are a couple of others that are questionable. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

11-04-2003, 10:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Artermis Insane Location: I live where all the morons live	Dude I do not want to prove once again on how wrong you are about that. Art

11-05-2003, 06:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	Anyhow, without this thread deteriorating into ripping the Big12 a new orafice, here is what I think about "the changing landscape of college football" 1. Marshall and Central Florida should be ashamed. While Cincinatti and Louisville and friends can justify their move to the Big East based on a move to better competition, Marshall and UCF are definitely moving down in competition - both in football and basketball. This is a money play, pure and simple. Sure, Marshall and UCF owe no alliegance to the MAC. But they do owe an alliegence to their fans, who (in the case of Marshall) travel to all MAC away games. This will not be the case in CONF-USA. 2. RoadRage is right about Akron and Central Michigan. They will easily maintain 15,000 plus. But I'd also throw Kent State into that category - they'll appeal to the community, they have a large contingent of graduates - they'll get the behinds in the seats. 3. I can't see the Big East getting a BCS bid. South Florida and Cincy aren't enough. The automatic bids should just be reduced - and let those schools fight it out in the weak Big East for an at large bid. 4. Does the state of Idaho contain 15,000 people to fulfill the requirement? If Idaho is finally booted out of I-A, does that mean that they can't become Pac-10 fodder anymore? Anyone else sick of seeing Idaho being scheduled against Washington, USC, Oregon, and Oregon State the first three weeks? Are those Pac-10 schools allowed to play teams like Boise State instead? (end rant) 5. Temple would make a nice addition to the MAC. They won't do it, but it would be a nice fit. I think they play other sports in conference - they are probably prevented from just playing football in the MAC. 6. Those Louisiana schools are best off in I-AA where they started. They are absolutely miserable - let them play and have success at the I-AA level.

11-05-2003, 08:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
bond007 Junkie Location: too far from Texas	Marshall and UCF both, ultimately, want to join the Big East.

11-05-2003, 10:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
Artermis Insane Location: I live where all the morons live	Big East will not keep their BCS bid. Louisville main reason was because they think the Big E will but I cannot see that happening unless ND comes to the rescue for them or maybe PSU? I never understood why Marshall and CF were ever in the MAC. I can see Marshall more than i can see CF there. Big East will be too big with 16 teams. I think it is just a diaster waiting to happen. Too many teams and not enough of a payout at the end of it all. Art

11-06-2003, 06:25 AM	#9 (permalink)
b1naryb0r1s Crazy Location: Murfreesboro	So what happens to the teams that didn't make the cutoff for the 15k fans? Demoted to Div 1-AA? Sad for Middle Tennessee State to get demoted, but it's probably best for them in the long run since I don't think they even could win the AA title.

11-06-2003, 09:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	The MAC teams had a great rivalry with Marshal. I kind of hate to see them go. Several years ago, when C-USA was founded, Toledo was mentioned to join, but the didn't want to leave the MAC, so there they stay. CFlorida's membership in the MAC was pretty subject at best. The Big East I think was looking to be more a Basketball power house than in football with those moves.

11-06-2003, 02:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
RoadRage Stay off the sidewalk! Location: Oklahoma City, OK	Oh yeah, the Baylor issue; not exactly the prettiest can of worms to be opening. Those booted from I-A would almost certainly become I-AA Independents until they find a conference with whom to affilitate. Idaho's stadium capacity is only 16K. They have to average 93% attendence to maintain the minimum I-A standard. There are more than 16K people in Idaho, but most won't come down out of the mountains just to watch a football game. Kent State's average this season is 11216. That's one hell of an attendence drive needed to reach 15K. Temple is Atlantic 10 in basketball. I don't have information about them with other sports. __________________ Join TFP Team SETI 43K workunits complete, 34 members, more of each needed.

11-06-2003, 03:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
dy156 cookie Location: in the backwoods	Okay, I'm better now. I wish we still played TCU. I know we will soon, but I just hope that it's not in the same conference for awhile. Last edited by dy156; 11-06-2003 at 03:19 PM..

11-07-2003, 07:07 AM	#17 (permalink)
Artermis Insane Location: I live where all the morons live	Yeah must be hard to get to 4th in the # of wins since 90 when he averages 2 DIAA teams a year. How many times has Texas won the Big 12 football title? Winning your division does not really count since people only remember who won the big game. Texas is 0-3...very nice. Lets check B-Ball....one regular season conf champ. (1999) The year before guess who had a better league record...uh oh...yep it was Baylor. Texas has an awe inspiring 7-6 record in Big 12 tournament. Baylor is 4-6...man you are right Texas is so much better than Baylor in this sport also. All confernces have and need teams like Baylor in them. If not then you would have a bunch of 8-4 teams and none of them having a chance to reach the Big Game and the total money brought in would be pretty low and then you would complain about too much parity. Why not go back to telling us how much you need a new coach....at least this is true.. Road do you really want me to start on the Arkansas program? Art

11-07-2003, 08:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
RoadRage Stay off the sidewalk! Location: Oklahoma City, OK	More like don't get me started. Nolan Richardson is GOD. Frank Broyles (AD) is still a Klansman at heart. Houston Nutt shows signs of promise, then promptly shoots himself in the foot. Arkansas started all this realignment craze back in 1990 when they decided to leave the Southworst Conference for the Southeast Conference. Most of the alums would have rather gone to the Big 8, but playing national powers other than just Texas was good too. __________________ Join TFP Team SETI 43K workunits complete, 34 members, more of each needed.

11-07-2003, 08:49 AM	#19 (permalink)
SSJwrestler Banned Location: Davidson, NC/ Manassas, VA	VA Tech rules all