Cy Young awards - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dylanmarsh · 09-10-2003, 04:23 PM

Okay, so I'm a Red Sox fan and, of course, most of you will shun me for even suggesting this but I think Pedro Martinez does have a legitimate case for the Cy Young this year. First, he has the few losses of any starter. He leads the AL in strikeouts. He also leads the AL in ERA. Granted, Loaiza is pushing 20 wins and has an ERA under three but should Pedro be punished for a sloppy bullpen that has cost him several wins this season? Pedro will have at least three more starts and assuming he wins all of those and maintains he league leading stats, would 15 wins give him the Cy Young? Personally, I don't think Halladay in Toronto should even be mentioned with Loaiza and Martinez in the voting.

In the NL, I think it is a foregone conclusion that Eric Gagne will win it. I think Smoltz would have taken it from him but with Smoltz being injuried, he's lost it.

What do you all think and who do you think will win?

gov135 · 09-10-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dylanmarsh

In the NL, I think it is a foregone conclusion that Eric Gagne will win it. I think Smoltz would have taken it from him but with Smoltz being injuried, he's lost it.

I'm not sure baseball voters would vote for a closer, even if it is deserved. I think the thought is that the award should go to a starter.

reconmike · 09-10-2003, 06:12 PM

Eckersley won it in 92 as a closer, I dont think wins should be primary factor for winning the cy young.

Look at Clemens in 2001, there were pitchers with much better numbers than him, but since he was 20-3 he got it.

Halx · 09-10-2003, 06:22 PM

Loaiza is up for the AL honor.

Of course... Gagne is untouchable in save situations. Only 2 earned runs in save situations. The Dodgers have a perfect record when leading after 8 innings.

jfranco13 · 09-10-2003, 06:49 PM

I think Jason Schmidt could/should be in the NL mix, but he'll need to finish strong to be a contender. With Russ Ortiz getting pounded by the freakin Pirates, he's probably out.

For the AL, I still like Halladay. If you look at the # of innings he has pitched, he is helping his team just as much (or more) as the guys with lower ERAs (Pedro/Loiaza)

Mikey The Great · 09-10-2003, 07:46 PM

AL:

NL:

djtestudo · 09-10-2003, 08:24 PM

Who the hell is "E." Bonderman?

By the way, Loeza has it won I think.

And as for Mikey's choice...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

dylanmarsh · 09-10-2003, 08:38 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by djtestudo
[B]Who the hell is "E." Bonderman?

By the way, Loeza has it won I think.

My bad on the "E" Bonderman; should be Jeremy. Dumb joke that failed miserably.

Artermis · 09-11-2003, 03:35 AM

Should have been mike maroth since he was the one who lost 20 games.

Art

maximusveritas · 09-11-2003, 04:19 AM

I like Loaiza, he's a big reason I'm winning my fantasy baseball league. But I still gotta go with Pedro for the reasons dylanmarsh indicated.

MikeyChalupa · 09-11-2003, 07:13 AM

Loaiza. This is the best season of his career. He has anchored the White Sox rotation that was SUPPOSED to have Bartolo Colon (13-12, 3.99) and Steve Buehrle (12-13, 4.18) as their big guns and single-handedly kept them in the AL Central hunt, winning big game after big game. Here are Loaiza's numbers this season so far:

19-6, 2.60, 197.2 IP, 176 K, 1.08 WHIP.

That leads the AL in wins and win %, is 2nd in ERA, and is 4th in K's and WHIP. Not bad for a guy who was a non-roster invitee to spring training, and began the season as Chicago's 5th starter. In his 8 seasons has had a winning season exactly once. His career numbers are atrocious. He's never had a season ERA below 4.13. Last year he went 9-10, 5.71. But the Cy is not a career award.

And, for all of you non-Yankee fans who really really care about this type of shit, he is only making $500,000 this year and the Sox picked up his $500,000 option for next year. Think he won't jump when Steinbrenner offers him $5M after that?

-Mikey

JohnnyRock · 09-11-2003, 12:26 PM

Gotta go with Loaiza and Gagne in the NL...

livingitup101 · 09-11-2003, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gov135
I'm not sure baseball voters would vote for a closer, even if it is deserved. I think the thought is that the award should go to a starter.

Gagne definitely deserves it--regardless of Reliever. I think it's a foregone conclusion that he'll win it.

Bobdoler · 09-12-2003, 04:49 PM

not sure how you can discount halladay like that, 15 straight wins(20 on the season with 3 starts left), 3 back to back complete game victories(2 shut outs, granted one was against detroit), leads the AL in innings pitched, slightly higher era than loaiza to be sure but all the other stats are quite strong

AL9045 · 09-13-2003, 07:03 AM

Halladay or Loaiza, Loaiza if the ChiSox make the playoffs, Halladay if they don't.

Halladay has started to heat up lately, 1 ER in his last 28 innings, of course 19 of those innings were against the Rays and Tigers, but he did beat the Yankees.

Sabonis · 09-13-2003, 12:43 PM

Of the ones posted, I would have to go with Loaiza. One guy getting overlooked is Tim Hudson. He's second in the AL in ERA, right behind Pedro and ahead of Loaiza. He only has 14 wins but 5 times this year, the A's closer Foulke has blown the save to screw Huddy out of a win. A 19-6 record looks a lot better than a 14-6 record.

Begora21 · 09-14-2003, 06:35 PM

I like Halladay in the AL, but I'm otrn between Gagne and Prior for the NL...

JoeyB · 09-15-2003, 07:17 PM

If any NL starter would have clearly distanced himself from the pack, I would feel that they would be the favorite. Usually a starter will get the nod....since nobody has really stood out--it has to be Eric Gagne. He's having a season which may not ever be duplicated.

In the AL, all signs point to Loaiza. He has the stats and his team should win its division. That's a powerful combination. Pedro is having another great year, but 20 wins is tough to overcome in the eyes of some voters.

View Poll Results: AL Cy Young
P. Martinez	4	13.79%
E. Loaiza	13	44.83%
R. Halladay	12	41.38%
E. Bonderman	0	0%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

09-10-2003, 04:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	Cy Young awards Okay, so I'm a Red Sox fan and, of course, most of you will shun me for even suggesting this but I think Pedro Martinez does have a legitimate case for the Cy Young this year. First, he has the few losses of any starter. He leads the AL in strikeouts. He also leads the AL in ERA. Granted, Loaiza is pushing 20 wins and has an ERA under three but should Pedro be punished for a sloppy bullpen that has cost him several wins this season? Pedro will have at least three more starts and assuming he wins all of those and maintains he league leading stats, would 15 wins give him the Cy Young? Personally, I don't think Halladay in Toronto should even be mentioned with Loaiza and Martinez in the voting. In the NL, I think it is a foregone conclusion that Eric Gagne will win it. I think Smoltz would have taken it from him but with Smoltz being injuried, he's lost it. What do you all think and who do you think will win?

09-10-2003, 06:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	Eckersley won it in 92 as a closer, I dont think wins should be primary factor for winning the cy young. Look at Clemens in 2001, there were pitchers with much better numbers than him, but since he was 20-3 he got it. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

09-10-2003, 06:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Loaiza is up for the AL honor. Of course... Gagne is untouchable in save situations. Only 2 earned runs in save situations. The Dodgers have a perfect record when leading after 8 innings. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-10-2003, 06:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
jfranco13 Crazy Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I think Jason Schmidt could/should be in the NL mix, but he'll need to finish strong to be a contender. With Russ Ortiz getting pounded by the freakin Pirates, he's probably out. For the AL, I still like Halladay. If you look at the # of innings he has pitched, he is helping his team just as much (or more) as the guys with lower ERAs (Pedro/Loiaza) __________________ We may lose, and we may win, but we will never be here again.

09-10-2003, 07:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mikey The Great Upright	AL: NL:

09-10-2003, 08:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Who the hell is "E." Bonderman? By the way, Loeza has it won I think. And as for Mikey's choice...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

09-10-2003, 08:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	[QUOTE]Originally posted by djtestudo [B]Who the hell is "E." Bonderman? By the way, Loeza has it won I think. My bad on the "E" Bonderman; should be Jeremy. Dumb joke that failed miserably.

09-11-2003, 03:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
Artermis Insane Location: I live where all the morons live	Should have been mike maroth since he was the one who lost 20 games. Art

09-11-2003, 04:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	I like Loaiza, he's a big reason I'm winning my fantasy baseball league. But I still gotta go with Pedro for the reasons dylanmarsh indicated.

09-11-2003, 07:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
MikeyChalupa Squid Location: USS George Washington	Loaiza. This is the best season of his career. He has anchored the White Sox rotation that was SUPPOSED to have Bartolo Colon (13-12, 3.99) and Steve Buehrle (12-13, 4.18) as their big guns and single-handedly kept them in the AL Central hunt, winning big game after big game. Here are Loaiza's numbers this season so far: 19-6, 2.60, 197.2 IP, 176 K, 1.08 WHIP. That leads the AL in wins and win %, is 2nd in ERA, and is 4th in K's and WHIP. Not bad for a guy who was a non-roster invitee to spring training, and began the season as Chicago's 5th starter. In his 8 seasons has had a winning season exactly once. His career numbers are atrocious. He's never had a season ERA below 4.13. Last year he went 9-10, 5.71. But the Cy is not a career award. And, for all of you non-Yankee fans who really really care about this type of shit, he is only making $500,000 this year and the Sox picked up his $500,000 option for next year. Think he won't jump when Steinbrenner offers him $5M after that? -Mikey

09-11-2003, 12:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
JohnnyRock Addict Location: Taxachussetts	Gotta go with Loaiza and Gagne in the NL... __________________ Not only do I not know the answer...I don't even know what the question is!!!

09-12-2003, 04:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
Bobdoler Crazy	not sure how you can discount halladay like that, 15 straight wins(20 on the season with 3 starts left), 3 back to back complete game victories(2 shut outs, granted one was against detroit), leads the AL in innings pitched, slightly higher era than loaiza to be sure but all the other stats are quite strong __________________ woot

09-13-2003, 07:03 AM	#15 (permalink)
AL9045 Addict Location: Virginia	Halladay or Loaiza, Loaiza if the ChiSox make the playoffs, Halladay if they don't. Halladay has started to heat up lately, 1 ER in his last 28 innings, of course 19 of those innings were against the Rays and Tigers, but he did beat the Yankees.

09-13-2003, 12:43 PM	#16 (permalink)
Sabonis Upright	Of the ones posted, I would have to go with Loaiza. One guy getting overlooked is Tim Hudson. He's second in the AL in ERA, right behind Pedro and ahead of Loaiza. He only has 14 wins but 5 times this year, the A's closer Foulke has blown the save to screw Huddy out of a win. A 19-6 record looks a lot better than a 14-6 record.

09-14-2003, 06:35 PM	#17 (permalink)
Begora21 Insane	I like Halladay in the AL, but I'm otrn between Gagne and Prior for the NL...

09-15-2003, 07:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
JoeyB feeling tingly	If any NL starter would have clearly distanced himself from the pack, I would feel that they would be the favorite. Usually a starter will get the nod....since nobody has really stood out--it has to be Eric Gagne. He's having a season which may not ever be duplicated. In the AL, all signs point to Loaiza. He has the stats and his team should win its division. That's a powerful combination. Pedro is having another great year, but 20 wins is tough to overcome in the eyes of some voters. __________________ My mom is a Diamondbacks fan. She really likes the Big Unit