clockworkgreen

I know, another thread about this, but my God, sports are **DEAD** right now....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Jun24.html

Guess we'll see how this plays out tomorrow....Washington Post is the only place I've seen it....so maybe I shouldn't believe it yet...We'll see.

jmf1234

Yeah i think this is the best way. it really improves Acc's football (and that was the real reason for the ACC's expansion) and it keeps the Big East a good (not great) conference.

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VirFighter

Local news here has been all over it, we've gotten play by play pretty much

My Dad told me he heard on the radio this evening that the VT unofficially said they were going to join. There shouldn't be a doubt in anyone's mind over Miami, they've been planning this thing for awhile.

My Dad and I theorized on this as well. Obviously this is a compromise to get the votes needed. The ACC still does not have the 12 teams needed for a championship game. So we think the plan is that they'll do this for now and then maybe in two years add the 12th team to overrule the dissenting members (namely Duke and UNC).

I think the league should have went ahead and got 13 teams now by inviting Miami, Syracuse, BC, and VT. This way they could get the championship game now. Hell, in some ways it seemed like a good idea to just go ahead and "merge" (take over) with the Big East and add Pitt, WVU, and UConn to the league making it a 16 member league with a true North and South division. This way the ACC would be by far the most dominant league in the nation. Also, just think of the TV contract they could demand with that kind of coverage. Profits would be amazing, but the initial cost would be high.

I'm pretty satisfied for now though. VT and Miami were the two teams that I wanted from the Big East.

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fearofmear

This still really hurts ACC basketball. ACC basketball is just great and will be tarnished by this. On the subject of the 12th school needed, I would like to see South Carolina from the SEC go. They don't really have any huge rivalries in the SEC and the SEC could invite a team like Southern Miss to replace them.

The_Dude

i feel sorry for poor big east.

they gonna suck ass now.

bah, who cares as long as big 12 stays in tact (except for baylor)

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Knolan Fairdale

Now VT looks like a bunch of sad hypocrites, since aren't they a part of the lawsuit aimed at Miami, BC, and the ACC for trying to destroy the Big East? I could've sworn they are. If VT and Miami go, it won't be as bad as SU and BC going as well; VT's football is suffering lately, and I'm just sick of losing to Miami. I hope they start to suck soon since Dorsey's gone, but I doubt they will, they've got strong recruiting in Florida.

I don't understand why the Big Ten isn't bitching to get just one more lousy team so it can become a superconference as well. I mean, it's basically the Big Eleven right now since Penn State is the odd man out, they should start courting someone, heck even my alma mater Pitt, since everyone can smell the tinge of death knocking at the Big East's door.

And yea, it would make a lot of sense for the ACC and Big East to merge, even if it's just the Big East's football schools that jump, but that'd never happen. This "crisis" should bring solidarity to the Big East schools that survive. I just wish that all the non-football Big East schools like St. John's, Villanova, Georgetown, and Seton Hall would do like UConn and start playing football in the Big East as well; Temple has done wise to leave Big East football since its basketball is elsewhere. Hey Notre Dame, you listening? All or nothing, baby!

Eh, what am I talking about. The Big East is gonna die, or at least be playing with one leg in a cast for a while.

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nico

Yeah VT was first for the expansion, then apart of a lawsuit against it, now they are all for it again.

smarm

I don't understand the decision here... It makes no sense to go half way. If they are going to expand at all, they might as well go to 12... 11 just doesn't make any sense. Now I figure that Miami will decide not to come because their friends (Syracuse and BC) were snubbed and all the ACC gets is VT. So VT is better than most of the ACC in Football, they add little else and complicate the round robin basketball format. How can Duke-UNC only play once a season? Or UNC-State? Or Duke-MD? for that matter.... it's almost sacrilegious.

If the ACC doesn't get Miami, how does adding VT help with revenue? Adding a small market, lower top-20 football school will increase the television ratings how? They certainly won't make up for it with BBall.

Grr. (My note isn't well thought out, I know, but man this expansion option seems like the dumbest of the lot!)

clockworkgreen

I've realized most people who think they know anything about VT, don't know anything about VT....

You will soon.

Go Hokies.

smarm

From a football perspective I have a lot of respect for the Hokies. I certainly think that the level of play on the football field will improve in the ACC when VT joins, I just don't think the financials will make sense if Miami doesn't join (and maybe even then, since we'll be 1 team away from having a real championship game in football.) VT has no basketball to speak of and it isn't as strong of a football program as Miami, so I don't see it strengthening the TV deal that much (small market, etc.)

Basically this is great for VT financially, and in a lot of other ways (witness the sudden change of heart with the lawsuit!)... and it dilutes the revenues for all the other teams in the ACC, as they'll never get THAT much more TV revenue for a 10 team leage without Miami. It will also reduce the quality of the basketball significantly, not just because VT doesn't bring much of a program, but the round-robin format for having a REAL conference regular season champion may be broken up.

I think Mr. Swofford should have a freshened up resume ready after this fiasco.

Jaiddin

VT and miami only makes it an 11 team league, so still no conference championship game and $ from the tv deal. Look for them to wait 1 year and grab Syracuse to throw a bone to the basketball coaches, and retain a market in the NE. Will still be trying to get to 12 teams by the 2004-05 season.

IF they only go after 2 teams, such as VT and Miami, they take some of the steam outta the lawsuit, by cuttin down the big east "strength" they are taking.

just my $.02

BigGov

The could ask the NCAA for an exemption though to have a championship game having only 11 teams (what they're planning on doing with the current proposal of Miami and VT only.)

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VirFighter

Here is the deal from the local Raleigh paper and I think a couple other news sources.

The plan was to compromise and invite, Miami, VT, and BC. Everyone expected this to pass through unless someone else decided to jump ship. Miami and VT were passed through as expected but Chancellor Fox of NC State voted against BC. Fox is very much for expansion, so why did she do this?

Current speculation is that there might be a shot at Notre Dame joining the ACC, yes the Irish might finally join a league. Now, sure this most likely a long shot considering ND turned down the Big 10 a couple years ago but even if there is just a 1 % it is worht pursuing. Adding ND would be a huge profit maker and conference booster. With that kind of football power the ACC could almost demand two automatic BCS bids and one at large. Also, just imagine the TV contract.

Chancellor Fox has ties to Notre Dame. So either she knows someone or has talked to someone up there and has decided that it would be better to sit tight on that 12th team until something happens (if anything) on the ND front.

Do I think Notre Dame will join the ACC? Personally, I see it as a long shot, but you never know and it is worth the chance.

__________________
"The South is gonna boogie again"
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smarm

When is ND's TV deal finished? That has always been the hook for them, right? They get a jillion dollars from NBC without having to share with a conference for their football games. They would have to get a HUGE payout from the conference to overcome that financially, it seems.

They also get all the freedom in the world to schedule UCLA/USC/Mich/etc. without having to play Clemson, Duke, etc. Seems like a tough sell to me. The BBall improvement wouldn't overcome the Fball downside.

Now, Miami, VT, ND as adders into the conference would be very interesting if they could pull it off.

The_Dude

VT accepted the invite. spotlight on miami now

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smarm

Miami promises an answer on Monday... I wonder what horsetrading is happening this weekend.

dawg1998

Miami will accept. Next will be whom?

East Carolina?
Marshall?
West Virginia?
Maybe even Syracuse or BC?

The Big East will still fall. No Miami or VT equals a laughable football conference. Sorry basketball fans, your sport makes no money.

smarm

I've heard ND discussed, perhaps South Carolina. Both highly unlikely, I think. Although with VT, Miami, and FSU, ND might be convinced if their TV money was protected somehow.

ECU, like VT, is trying to the get the politicians to force them in, even though I think they are a worse fit than VT... Also, I don't know if Moeser will fold as fast and the UVA Chancellor.

I hadn't heard Marshall or WVU mentioned in any of the rumors I've heard. (which certainly doesn't discount them in the least)

VirFighter

So now that Miami has accepted, the 12 team is inevitable, it might take a couple years but there will eventually be one. So lets take a look at the current contenders:


ECU? Man, I couldn't help but laugh when I read about them trying to pull some political clout to get in the conference. ECU offers absolutely nothing to the ACC. Lets see, no expanded tv area, 3rd rate football program, 5th rate basketball program... yeah, don't think that's gonna happen. They best arguement they can come up with is that they have rabid fans... On top of that, all the other schools hate the fact that the North Carolina schools dominate the league, do you really think they would be wiling to add another one? It will be a cold, cold day in hell when ECU is a part of the ACC.

South Carolina.... they don't really offer anything to conference but they are certainly more viable then ECU. However, South Carolina was once a part of the ACC and I'm not sure if they would be willing to join again, even if invited. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing them added though, as it would keep the conference in the Southeast and keep the rivals together.

Notre Dame is all just rumors right now. I really hope this is a serious possibility though. It would definitely make the ACC the best conference in all the land. I'm waiting on this one with my fingers crossed. I could stand adding a non-Southeast team if it was someone like ND.

Realistically though... I think the ACC will add either BC or Syracuse on the down the road. Miami will push hard for either of these two and most of the league was ready to accept them anyways so either one is certainly a possibility.

I just really hope everyone keeps their heads on straight and doesn't let ECU become anything more than wishful thinking from their fans. We already have one chicken shit school with rabid fans (Clemson ) and definitely don't need another.

__________________
"The South is gonna boogie again"
- Disco Stu

daryl10

ACC is now in wait mode sitting on 11 teams. They have two viable options
1. Petition the NCAA to drop 12 team requirement (Big 12 has already welcomed this idea) and stay with 11 teams.
2. Wait until Miami and VT get voting rights or a compromise with swing voters Virginia and NC State comes along (Louisville???).

Notre Dame and South Carolina will not be joining the ACC for the same reasons that the ACC is looking to expand...MONEY$$$$$

Notre Dame will stay status quo as long as they have an individual seat in the BCS, the TV deal, and the Big East allows them to participate in other sports. It made more sense for ND to join the Big 10 (which is where I believe they will eventually find themselves after a few down seasons prior to re-upping TV deal) or the Big East (fellow Catholic Univ.).

South Carolina just got there payday from the SEC with the SEC being the largest revenue conference in the country. USC was in the ACC and left by their choosing. Dr McGee (USC AD) has repeatedly shot this idea down as USC is very happy being in the SEC where they are making money, have made a few bowl games now, competing nationally in other sports (top 25 in Sears cup last two years) and play second to only Vanderbilt for tops in graduation rate.

Agree with VirFighter that ECU brings nothing to the table other than political infighting in NC. Besides NC State and UNC hate ECU with passion. Probably add Miami to that list as well. Four years ago during Hurricane Floyd, rabid ECU fans trashed NC State's stadium after beating Miami there after NC State kind enough to allow them to play game there due to ECU campus being under water. I saw the humor, but I bet NC State and Miami still remember.

Next big news toward end of week when ACC divisions are announced according to sources here. Can't wait for realization to hit Clemson fans when they realize that they have FSU, Miami and VT on their schedule every year.

VirFighter

Good point about ND being happy on their own. However, remeber that the BCS is due for restructuring shortly and ND might be left out. Besides, the would probably stand to make a very nice amount of money from joining the ACC as well. Maybe I'm just thining wishfully but there have gotta be some kind of talk going on. Chancellor Fox (NC State) was one that turned down BC, she's an ND grad and has other ties to the school, maybe she's been talking to someone? Who knows.

I forgot about the big payout the SEC gives. Overall there is too much bad blood between the ACC and USC for them to be given a viable shot. And on top of that, I don't think USC could meet the academic requirements of the ACC. (I don't know them right off the top of my head but they are higher than the minimum NCAA ones which the SEC uses).

Academics are partially the reason why Miami was interested in the ACC. The SEC also wanted Miami and even though the SEC was a better football, Miami didn't want to be associated with the lower class and sleaziness of the SEC, just look at UGA (sic).

That's not the only time those idiots have torn up Carter-Finely. There's a reason why a fair amount of State fans refer to them as vandals instead of pirates.

On a side note, ECU and UNC play in Greenville this coming season, I think. Personally I'll be praying for a hurricane to sweep them both out to sea.

__________________
"The South is gonna boogie again"
- Disco Stu

smarm

It was fun watching the State-ECU implosion in Carter Finley, unfortunately they both made it out. No need to add more teams like that to the ACC.

Is the SEC payout better than the ACC? The ACC gave out 9.6M or so last year. The News and Observer has been saying that was the largest of any conference.

alec

i go to uva right now and i cant wait (or at least hope to get to see) miami play at UVA in football. even if we get crushed, its like seeing a freaking professional football team.

anyhow, on the 12th team issue... i hope its a school thats good at bball and football. screw south carolina. Notre Dame, Syracuse, or Pittsburgh would be ideal.

the ACC dominates basketball, lacrosse, and soccer... itll be nice to see us dominate football and whatever other sport we get better at. the NCAA might as well be renamed the ACC, because all youll be hearing about for the next few years is another ACC team winning national championships

dawg1998

The ACC is going to stick with 11 members. Why? Because the NCAA will allow the champ game to go on despite that 12-team rule (they make money, too, you know) and then the ACC can split the cash with 11 teams rather than 12.