Ilow

Alrighty, he's guilty now, so we can move on from our "if he's guilty" comments. Where are all the supporters who had their heads in the sand now.

__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris

Terrell

Now what should the NFL do with him. I think that he should be banned from football for doing this. What he did with the dogs was beyond reprehensible, and I cannot see any way that it doesn't violate the NFL's personal conduct rules.

I don't have a problem with the judge rejecting his plea-bargin and sentencing him much more harshly than what Vick's attorneys and the prosecution agreed upon. I've heard on CNN that the judge has the authority to punish him more harshly if he sees fit to do so.

filtherton

All i'm going to say is that i'd watch vick fight two pit bulls if it were on t.v. I don't think it would qualify as cruel and unusual at all.

ShaniFaye

I dont normally pay attention to editorial cartoons....but I love this one

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

kutulu

I'm more than a little upset that all he's going to get is a year or two for this.

Glory's Sun

well he's also losing what? 90 million??

I said earlier that I'm assuming 2 years, but after reading more about this judge.. 5 years is by no means a stretch of the imagination. Also included is the time off he'll have to receive from the NFL which could be permanent.

Even if he does happen to make it back which IMO won't be as a QB, he'll have such a nightmarish time trying to repair his image it's going to suck balls.

aceventura3

I know Vick committed multiple felonies and deserves jail time. However, I think the public reaction is interesting given the fact that:

http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affe...estimates.html

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Glory's Sun

ace: that's a totally different story that holds much different circumstances and legal issues.

The Vick issue is an illegal act that not only included animal violence but violence between man and animal.

Willravel

Number of dogs and cats tortured by shelters: 0

pan6467

There is a huge difference between euthanizing animals (putting to death in a humane way) and totally abusing the Hell out of an animal and doing as much damage as possible before killing it. To compare the 2 is disgraceful and IMHO trying to find a way to approve what Vick did.

Vick participated in an illegal and barbaric event, over and over again. He raised dogs to kill and would kill them by hanging, drowning, electrocution if they lost their fight. To me, it shows a man without any civility, any conscience and any compassion.

For Stephon Marbury to defend this man "he fell into a bad situation" LINK:
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball...438575-ap.html
WTF????? Vick commits ILLEGAL activities, brutally kills dogs, in and out of the "fights" and you defend this fucker????? Worse yet, we pay you millions of dollars a year to play a kid's game and you give us this?????? WTF... proof money doesn't buy intelligence and that today's athletes believe because of the money they make and their "fame" they feel above the law.




Or the NAACP to start making this a racial issue, shows me that all they truly care about is trying to make this a racial issue. Gee, NAACP maybe you could really do some good and start talking out AGAINST these dumb fucks and truly promote the Urban Minority by praising the true role models and giving respect and honor where it belongs.... but no you would rather defend some self serving, law breaker, the Gangsta lifestyle, that has allowed this barbarism to become a "sport of the millionaire black athlete and entertainer". Course with their money and donations to you, they probably own your asses by now and you cringe in fear to speak out against this shit. So, yeah let's just keep making it racial, shall we.

If Vick were white, would you NAACP guys feel the same way????????

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

snowy

I think he deserves a lifetime ban from the NFL.

This is not a racial issue. This is an animal cruelty issue. For the NAACP to think otherwise--they're being deliberately obtuse.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

kutulu

The fact that he's losing tens of millions of dollars is irrelevant to what his sentence should be.

aceventura3

I know the differences, I am pointing out the irony or the pretense that we live in a nation of dog lovers. How do you explain the tone of the rhetoric towards Vick when millions of dogs are abandoned and killed every year?

Have you ever been to a dog shelter? I have. The dogs are clearly in distress, it is an unnatural setting for them, they lack proper exercise, emotional bonding, some are sick and malnourished. I am not saying the shelters torture, but for a dog being in a shelter is torture. The people who work and volunteer at dog shelters are remarkable people, they deserve all the credit in the world, because I don't know how they do it. I leave dog shelters deeply saddened.

In many situations when an animal is put to death on a farm or in a situation away from a vet, a shot to the head is common. I am not sure why dog fighters would hang, drown or electrocute a dog other than them being sick.

Also, there is the world of bull fighting, there is the world of fox hunting, to people not of those cultures, the treatment of those animals seems unconscionable. Personally I don't like the thought of picking a live lobster out of a tank to be dropped in boiling water for my dinner.

I agree.

I bet a few people in the Falcon's organization knew Vick was into dog fighting. The owner said Vick was like a son to him. Vick owned a kennel called, Bad News, raising pitbulls, and nobody thought to ask or investigate if he was involved in illegal activities before offering him the richest contract in the NFL? To that I say even people with more money than Vick aren't to smart either.




The dog fighting, gambling and Vick's pleading guilty is not racial, but there are racial overtones to the national response.

No. It is not their job to respond the same way to injustice that doesn't involve "colored" people. The NRA gets involved in NRA issues and ignore non-NRA issues. Same for the ACLU, PETA, AARP, AMA, UAW, and your local PTA, etc, etc, etc.

I always found this, why don't the do the same for white people, argument used against the NAACP kind of odd. Well why doesn't the NRA stand up and support the causes of non-gun owners?

So what is the new rule going to be?

If a person has ever killed a dog they cannot play in the NFL?
If you are a felon you can't play in the NFL?
If you are cruel you can't play in the NFL?

What about rapists who have been convicted and served their time? Murderers? Wife beaters? Child abusers? Drunk driving convictions?

To most people this may not be a race issue. To some it is. Some people hate young black hip-hop culture and hate the fact that young black males make millions of dollars in sports and entertainment, and they let their hate be known. Why should we pretend, this is not real?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Glory's Sun

How can I explain it? Well first off most animals are taken to the shelter because of bad pet owners. Now those pet owners may have given every ounce of love they could to the animal, but they just didn't plan out all the factors. So they take it to a shelter where there is at least a chance to be adopted .. instead of just saying "Ya know, I don't want you anymore, I think I'll drown you, hang you and electrocute you. You were a great dog."

Willravel

Are the dogs fighting each other and bleeding to death? Are there puncture marks covering their bodies?

I think you can see where there is a very blatant distinction between the treatment of the animals at a shelter and Michael Vick (btw, MV if you're reading this, I'm going to kick your ass if I ever see you).

This is not to say that shelters are filled with warm hugs and daisies, and that is a problem that needs fixing. I wish I had the time and energy to fix everything but I don't. A bleeding heart liberal has to prioritize, and right now it's Iraq and the upcoming cold war between the US and China/Russia.

Glory's Sun

Now this.. I would pay a lot of money to see this.

Sion

the Bungles (half the damned roster) and the cRavens (Jamal Lewis, Ray "The Knife" Lewis) have probably already contacted him about a tryout in a year or 3.

__________________
He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

spectre

The NAACP isn't supporting him as much now.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

albania

A white man assaulting a black man, hmm I know what that's called... a hate crime.

aceventura3

So they let someone else do the dirty work. And it is done behind a curtain. Do we care about dogs or not? I think what goes on in shelters is like a dirty little secret, while we put on a very different public face.

Have you seen the puppy mills? Have you seen the latest trend in designer breeding? Rather than adopting a perfectly good mutt from a shelter, people spend thousands of dollars on "labradoodles" or whatever. Should that make real dog lovers cringe?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

Glory's Sun

puppy mills and designer breeding is just as bad. I will agree with you there.

However, there are plenty of no kill shelters and adoption shelters to give people options these days.

snowy

Yeah, all of the shelters in my area are no-kill. I volunteer for them, and the shelter is NOT a sad place. It's a happy place. Yes, the dogs are in kennels, but volunteers walk them, play with them, and they are well-fed. For many of those dogs, the shelter is a better place than they were before.

Like will pointed out already, the way these dogs were treated is more along the lines of a puppy mill than a dog shelter, plus they were made to fight. Even dog shelters who do euthanize generally keep the dogs in good, healthy, and safe conditions, and only euthanize when it is necessary. No animal shelter takes joy in euthanizing animals, and they certainly aren't pitted against one another in battles.

As for:
If you are a felon, you shouldn't be able to play in the NFL. For better or worse, whether we like it or not, athletes are rolemodels to young kids. I know some athletes have issue with this idea, but if they're going to be paid as much as they do for playing a game, they should have to follow the law like anyone else, and be held to a higher standard of conduct on and off the field.

Is there really something wrong with expecting people to be decent human beings and to act like adults?

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

YaWhateva

I wholeheartedly agree with onesnowyowl. All the dog shelters in my area are no-kill as well and I just went to one yesterday. The animals were extremely well taken care of and I saw many dogs being walked and played with by the people that worked at the shelter.

ace, I agree about puppy mills and designer animals. The only dogs I have owned or ever will own are strays or ones from the dog shelter.

As for the NAACP playing the race card, the vast majority of professional athletes (at least basketball and football) are black. That in and of itself shows why more black athletes are convicted of crimes. It's just statistics. Also, the vast majority of them play on the whole gangsta attitude. I for one think the public would have been much more shocked and outraged if Brian Urlacher or Brett Favre or Michael Jordan or some other role-model athlete had been part to these heinous crimes. Also, I feel that they would have at least the same level of punishment from the NFL and the courts just because of how these players are(were) role-models and not bling bling wearing wankstas.

Michael Vick is a horrid human being. To have all the money that he has and to know what good he could have done with it only to see him use it for that is despicable. I personally think all the money and houses and cars and everything he owns should be seized and sold off. Then I think 100% of that money should be given to charities that help poor, unwanted animals (and not just dogs either).

As for his punishment, let a pack of pit bulls tear him to shreds, and then let someone finish him off by drowning. Let him play football again? Ha.

__________________
“If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again.” - Bill O'Reilly

"This is my United States of Whateva!"

Willravel

$5 at the door.
Well I wouldn't be doing it because he was black. Also, he probably has a full foot on me and maybe 100 pounds of muscle. I'd just say he was walking towards my dog and I felt threatened.

Sion

Mike Vick is a shitbag. He should do hard time and never be allowed to disgrace the NFL again.

__________________
He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

pan6467

Maybe to "punish" them for losing?

This just changes the subject unnecessarily. We're not talking about any of those, we're talking about what Michael Vick did.



True, it isn't just Vick and yes I'm sure the owner will eventually face some form of retribution when people realize this...... if they realize this. Perhaps, we shall see Vick turn over evidence in a plea bargain that could really rock the professional sports world.
The only racial responses I personally have seen or heard all come from the NAACP and the black community.


See, I believe you are wrong here, in that, the NAACP or any of the named organizations should fight to make sure people have the same rights.... not turn issues into something else, like racial, and expect different treatment.

Again, this was about the NAACP response, not those other organizations, and I qualified what I said by stating:

But, I guess that didn't fit into your argument.


Hmm ..... how about, not being a felon and thinking you are above the law?


If a person tortures dogs to death, by electrocution, making them fight to the death (which is ILLEGAL), drowning them and so on, with malice..... and they are breaking the law.... yes.

Again, you are taking this and trying to change the subject and focus, which is Vick and what HE has done. Goodall is working very hard to change the image of the NFL and yes, players implicated in the above are being suspended and blackballed from the NFL.

I don't see this as racial, but I firmly believe and I have the right to believe and feel, whether it is fair or not, that our athletes and entertainers should be expected to live a law abiding life, regardless of race and those that commit felonies should face the punishment to the full extent of the law.

I realize they are human and believe they are not role models.... but they still should be law abiding citizens and if not... then make them role models and show everyone NOONE is above the law and max their sentences out.

In the end, though, they are role models. Kids (and some adults) do aspire to play like them, to sing /rap like they do, to live like they do, to act like they do.

This goes for Vick, Hilton, Lohan, the white NBA ref, Mel Gibson etc.

But that is just MY PERSONAL opinion and belief.

Is it realistic? Doubtful, but would wake some up in a hurry.

Is it fair? Don't know, is having making more money than your fans will in 1,000 lifetimes and then leaving that town for more money, playing a game, fair? Is buying the best lawyers, money can buy, to get off a charge you know you are guilty of fair?

Is knowing that the fan, who doesn't have the same kind of money you have but is guilty of the same crime, ends up in jail, with fines they can't pay, without a driver's license, etc. fair?

If this weren't Michael Vick and just some "regular" guy getting caught do you think we would even have this argument? I don't think so, I think the guy would be tried and thrown in prison and there wouldn't be any outcry from anyone (except maybe his family) whatsoever. So what makes Vick so special, that people feel he should get special treatment?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Mister Coaster

I normally don't just chime in and give a thumbs up to a long and well-crafted post but...

Very well said, Pan!

__________________
If you have any poo... fling it NOW!

highthief

Ha, ha! Rot in jail scumbag. The guy's head is miswired, like Tyson.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

pan6467

I think it's an odd coincidence that DMX's house was busted so soon after Vick pled guilt.

And since I don't believe in coincidences, I have a feeling, he will turn state's evidence and be like the Wesley Snipes' character on New Jack City. Willing to turn everyone in to save his own skin.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Sion

Maybe old Ron Mexico has been working undercover for the Feds all this time, so as to infiltrate the world of the "sport of millionaire black athletes". What a guy, sacrificing his own good name in order to bring these thugs to justice.

Yay Mike Vick!

__________________
He's the best, of course, of all the worst.
Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz

I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...