Something to think about........ - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pan6467 · 01-30-2006, 09:52 PM

I read this:

Quote:

Clemens pitches BP at Astros minicamp

By CHRIS DUNCAN, AP Sports Writer
January 30, 2006

HOUSTON (AP) -- Roger Clemens made an unexpected appearance at the start of the Houston Astros' minicamp on Monday, pitching batting practice to prospects that included his oldest son, Koby.

The 43-year-old right-hander hasn't decided whether he'll play a 23rd season. He led the major leagues with a 1.87 ERA last year but was plagued by back and hamstring problems late in the season. He limped off the field after just two innings in the World Series opener.

Clemens said Monday his back and hamstring were healed, but he has doubts whether he could last another full season.

"There will be a week I get up and I feel like I can do it again and then the next week, I don't want to get out in the outfield and start running those poles and doing those things," Clemens said. "If last year's World Series was it for me, I'm more than happy. I know we didn't reach our ultimate goal, but it was a lot of fun. I have a lot to think about."

Clemens, a free agent, wasn't offered salary arbitration by the Astros and cannot re-sign with them until May 1. He hopes to pitch for the United States in the World Baseball Classic.

Clemens took the mound at Minute Maid Park, wearing a black Astros shirt and matching cap as he worked up a sweat pitching for about 20 minutes.

"My body feels great, arm feels good," Clemens said. "I just need the conditioning with my legs. When I have a little extra-long session here, like I was able to throw BP and simulate a couple of hitters, it helps a lot."

Clemens said he didn't overexert himself during Monday's workout, throwing only a handful of game-level fastballs. He was still sore afterward.

"Two split-fingers hurt my elbow like you wouldn't believe, and I've got a heartbeat in the back of my shoulder right now," Clemens said.

Clemens planned to throw again Tuesday and Wednesday. He hopes to tell U.S. manager Buck Martinez within 12 days if he can pitch effectively in the WBC.

"If I'm going to be active, I want to make a good showing," he said. "It's not an exhibition game, it's the real deal. It's not spring training, where I can get out there and I start getting hammered around, they just leave me out there to get my pitch count in."

Hall of Famer Nolan Ryan, a power pitcher like Clemens who retired at 46, expects Clemens to play this season. Ryan, who works in the Astros' front office, chatted with Clemens before Monday's workout.

"I don't expect him not to pitch because of the competitor he is," said Ryan. "If he can physically do it, I think he'll do it. That's his life."

When Clemens signed with the Astros in January 2004, he also signed a personal services contract that would keep him with the team in some capacity for 10 years after he retires.

Clemens said he showed up Monday mainly to work with the Astros' prospects, a hint of what he'll do after he's finished playing.

"This is my home, whether I play here or not, no matter what, I'm going to come back and work for these kids and be around the organization," Clemens said. "I'll go out and shake hands and see everybody here, but I want to work with the kids behind the scenes in the minor leagues. Right now, that's the only deal I've got."

I know it's early and I doubt his ego would handle it, but what if Clemens became a closer for the next couple seasons.

I bolded the part and saw that perhaps he won't have the stamina at his age to keep as a SP but as a closer..... I have a feeling he'd be as automatic and as good as they get.

Any opinions?

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-30-2006, 10:35 PM

You bring up a very good point, but to me you hit the nail on the head when you talked about ego. Do you think The Rocket would regulate himself to the pen?

pan6467 · 01-30-2006, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

You bring up a very good point, but to me you hit the nail on the head when you talked about ego. Do you think The Rocket would regulate himself to the pen?

I seriously doubt it. But if he could bring himself to do it..... I think he could last a few more years and truly be helpful to any team.

Just imagining him coming out to shut the door on a game in the 9th, brings shivers.

The_Jazz · 01-31-2006, 05:39 AM

I can't see him ever allowing himself to be relegated to second banana out in the bullpen. I think that he's always patterned his career after Nolan Ryan's, and that's definitely something that Ryan never would have done. I'd love it if he came up and helped my Cubbies out for a year or two in the rotation, but that's never going to happen. Besides, we already have one of the greatest-players-who's-now-a-scrub in Greg Maddux.

Borla · 01-31-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

I read this:

I know it's early and I doubt his ego would handle it, but what if Clemens became a closer for the next couple seasons.

I bolded the part and saw that perhaps he won't have the stamina at his age to keep as a SP but as a closer..... I have a feeling he'd be as automatic and as good as they get.

Any opinions?

Interesting thought. I think it would be fun to watch, and I don't think the closer role is a "second place" role on the staff like it was years ago (when Ryan was pitching for instance). Look at the money that unproven or barely proven closers got this offseason. That right there shows their value.

I see a few things in the way though.

Don't the Astros already feel they are set at closer though?

Would Clemens want to go elsewhere for the experiment, or be willing to share the role?

What about him staying home on days he doesn't pitch? As a closer you may pitch 3-5 times a week, not once every five days.

Would it be easier or harder on his arm and legs to pitch back to back, but only to get 3-5 outs, or to pitch every fifth day for 5-7 innings?

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-31-2006, 10:05 AM

The transition would be different, I wonder if the old fogie could handle it physically. Granted he would be pitching more often on a day to day basis, he would be throwing less pitches between warming up/bull pen activity/ and games. Not everyone can do the transition, because the job description is different, I think this dog might be too old to learn any new tricks.

pan6467 · 01-31-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

The transition would be different, I wonder if the old fogie could handle it physically. Granted he would be pitching more often on a day to day basis, he would be throwing less pitches between warming up/bull pen activity/ and games. Not everyone can do the transition, because the job description is different, I think this dog might be too old to learn any new tricks.

True as a starter you play a lot more of a thinking game trying to out think the batter.... "what's he loooking for? I'll hit the outside fast, outside fast, outside high and fast and then come in on him soft and weak as soon as he is sold on the outside hard pitches.

Whereas with a closer it is just power vs. batter, very few thinkers/psychological pitchers are closers. Closers just say, "Here's my stuff hit me if you can." (SP trying that don't last long as SP

That's why it takes hard throwers longer to hit their prime like Nolan, Big Unit, Rocket and so on.... some like Swindell never get the psych part of pitching.)

Guess it all depends on what Clemens believes he is, and I have a feeling it is the SP out think the batter type.

dylanmarsh · 01-31-2006, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Just imagining him coming out to shut the door on a game in the 9th, brings shivers.

Why? Because he forgot his wool cardigan?

Seriously, though, I don't think Clemens would ever slip into the closer's role. Granted his splits are awesome over the last three years; 1 to 45 pitches = .205/.290/.350 with 259 strikeouts and 23 HRs allowed in 948ABs.

Effectiveness aside, his ego is too much for him to switch into a "lesser" role. Clemens came in a starter and he'll leave a starter.

The_Jazz · 02-01-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylanmarsh

Clemens came in a starter and he'll leave a starter.

By that logic, does that mean he'll sign with the Red Sox?

dylanmarsh · 02-01-2006, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

By that logic, does that mean he'll sign with the Red Sox?

No, it means that Clemens came in a hot-head, loud-mouth and he will leave the same. I wouldn't mind seeing him pitch for the Sox but I think he's more of a disruption than good teammate.

01-30-2006, 10:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	You bring up a very good point, but to me you hit the nail on the head when you talked about ego. Do you think The Rocket would regulate himself to the pen? __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-31-2006, 10:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	The transition would be different, I wonder if the old fogie could handle it physically. Granted he would be pitching more often on a day to day basis, he would be throwing less pitches between warming up/bull pen activity/ and games. Not everyone can do the transition, because the job description is different, I think this dog might be too old to learn any new tricks. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

01-31-2006, 05:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	I can't see him ever allowing himself to be relegated to second banana out in the bullpen. I think that he's always patterned his career after Nolan Ryan's, and that's definitely something that Ryan never would have done. I'd love it if he came up and helped my Cubbies out for a year or two in the rotation, but that's never going to happen. Besides, we already have one of the greatest-players-who's-now-a-scrub in Greg Maddux.