MEAD

This is going to be quite long.

Hey there everyone. I try and be pretty active in this forum and give my input on the various topics. The last time I posted anything myself was when I had a pretty difficult break up with the first person I ever loved, thankfully with all your help and some work and care on either side, things with that have setteled and we are able to be friends. Anyhow, since everyone helped so much last time I come with more questions regarding my new relationship. You must understand that I don't know much about women so I need to be informed as much as possible. My last and only other girl friend was a good friend before we were together, and everyone knows that those are much easier in the early stages. However, with the girl I am seeing now, I only just met her this semester. So the experience of meeting a new person and starting to date them is totally new to me. Now I really don't want to mess this relationship up just due to my inexperience with women, but I seem to be getting really mixed signals with this girl and it is often frustrating.

Let me tell this as it happened. I went on a casual date with this girl a couple weeks ago, it went well, we hung out with some of her friends, who I got along with, and we went back to my place and talked by ourselves for a while. I didnt make a move to kiss her, but I went for some closer physical contact, which seemed well met. She left and I hugged her goodybe at the car door. I have class with her MWF. I'd see her then and we'd talk on the phone and online very easily. Things were still pretty nascent and at times a little awkward, but I was happy.

We already had plans to go to a concert for the next weekend so when that rolls around eveything is still going well. We went to the show and then back to my place where we fell on the bed dead tired, I managed to get the lights turned off and we talked and got closer to each other for a while before I went to kiss her. Thankfully that went well, it lasted a few seconds and nothing was said. I went back to kiss her again and it lasted a bit longer, again nothing was really said. I guess we were still figuring out what we thought, lol. Finally we both sat up, I brushed her hair to the side, and she dove in to kiss me. I guess we had it right this time because it was a much more intense experience. There's no need to get graphic about what we did after that point, but I'll just term it "fooling around" there wasnt any kind of sex, but still great mutual enjoyment of each other's bodies. That went on for about an hour or so and probably would have went on longer if it were not 5:30 am by that time. She ended up falling asleep with me. We woke up early the next day and I walked her down to her car, hugged her and kissed her goodbye. I was on top of the world.
Well Monday rolls around and its time to see her in class, I really expected to get a kiss or at least a hug from her, but when I approached there was nothing. Just "Hello," but I could deal with that although I'm used to hugging all my female friends when greeting them, I figured maybe she didn't do that so much, and that when things were more comfortable we could do that. But things jsut got worse, I sat next to her in class and I didnt get the impression that she was interested in me at all anymore, I would have given up right there if I hadnt liked her so much and if she hadnt called me later that night and had such a great and easy conversation with me. I was excited again and figured on Wednesday I'd get my hug and kiss.

Wednesday: no hug. no kiss. I'm bummed and once again she doesnt seem to be interested in me.

So I'm like seething frustrated with her because it seems that we can talk just great on the phone or IM, she wants to talk, she starts conversation and acts cute, but in person it just doesnt happen. I'm at the end of my rope when she tells me she wants to meet me on Thurs and do something, so figure I'll give it a chance, I like her so much, I tell ehr I do, and she seems to really care for me too. Thurs night comes and she even brings me something to eat, but no hug no kiss at the door. I do all I can to sit close and get my hands on her and she doesnt move away. We end up in my room and I manage a quick kiss but that's it. She doesnt seem to want to take it any further.

This all makes me very sad, I don't know how to take this disconnect from how close we are in conversation and how it goes in person. We have plans to go on a trip next weekend and she cant seem to be more excited for it, and that makes me really happy. But on the other hand I am very afraid it will just a weekend of me pursuing her and her accepting the pursuits but not showing any extended interest beyond that. I don't know how to take it all. It confuses and sadens me a lot, I really want things to work out with her because the more I learn about her, the more we have in common and the more it makes me like her. But I can't deal with these seemingly mixed signals.

Am I just pushing things too hard and expecting too much too soon?
Does she not really like me as much as I thought?
Am I just a friend?
Is she just not affectionate?
WTF do I do?

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

joemc91

To be honest, it sounds like she really likes you. Maybe she's just shy about PDA (public displays of affection). Also, she seems to get really excited when she's doing something with you. I've seen this before with a lot of girls. If you're doing something with them, say a concert, sport, cooking, whatever, they seem to be even more attracted to that person. It has happened to me many times. If she seems excited about the trip, she's probably really looking forward to going.

But, like you said, it's still early in the relationship, maybe she's a bit nervous about it. I can't say for certain since I've never met her and besides, I'm not the world's most experienced about this sort of thing. Though I can identify rejection from 5 weeks away with (so far) 100% accuracy! I wish you luck with this girl, she sounds like a lot of fun.

ruggerp11

well don't persue her then. Don't try and jump on her or even initiate much. Just hang out and let her come to you. Believe me when I say that this will help. If she just needed to get some time to adjust then she'll be fine. If she doesn't like PDA she'll let you know. If she doesn't like you then you don't feel like a fool for trying so hard. just be casual about it and I know its impossible but try not to worry about it. it will work it self out one way or another.

__________________
Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
Do What makes you happy
--Me
BUT!
"Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness" - Chuang-Tzu

dlish

ruggerp11 is right..play it cool... let her play into your hands.

you'll find that when u play hard to get yo arouse their eagerness and curiosity in you. good luck

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Nisses

And then 2 months later, when nothing has happened at all, you guys will be telling him he waited to long and now he's in the friend-zone?

How's about you ask her what's up?

__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.

cptgreedle

Wow... I feel both of these opinions are right. You might need to let her approach you, but you still have to seem interested. On the other hand, if you establish communication with her now, not just talking about stuff but about you and her, and what she wants and what you want, then you can both undestand eachother better. The secret to every lasting, good relationship is communication.
So I say you give her a chance, see what she does. Don't get her upset, and make sure you are there for her. But when the time is right, try to talk (face to face, no AIM or phone crap for this) about you and her and what she wants.
She sounds truely interested in you, and from what I read, she knows you are interested in her. Patience is a virtue that will help any relationship. If you try to rush it, it will collapse. Let her set the pace, and keep up.
Just make sure you both enjoy each other's company and have fun!
Good luck and God speed!

Schatz

I think she's freakin' out and I'll bet a little conversation could sort things out.

I think I've done what she's doing. For me, i freak out when the ambiguity that is inherent in startin' somethin' gets to be too much and then I freeze up - I start wondering what he's assuming and being scared of the possibilities, and then I start assuming stuff and then it's just a big ball of confusion.

SO - I wonder - because I've never tried this before - if just a little conversation would sort it out. It doesn't have to be a Big Talk. In fact, I think it shouldn't be a Big Talk - it's more a matter of bringing the topic up for conversation, having it open for discussion (in this case, the topic being "why are you so chummy on the phone but so distant in person") it seems like she's nervous about something, and if she could name it then you'll both feel more secure about whatever it is you're doing together.

It's REALLY SCARY to start these conversations, because it really opens you up to be let down - like, what if the answer is "I just wanna be friends" - eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! this is probably why I have never done it. NOnetheless, at this point I believe it must be a worthwhile thing to do, because the freak out kills everything before it can even start; so ya might as well start an uncomfortable conversation before letting it die by freak out. and in your case, you're getting frustrated, and that can kill it... so if you can only get the nerve to talk to her about it...

little_tippler

I'm not sure...she sounds confused really. I personally hate playing games. I know it's tough but a little talk is the best option IMO.

Something casual, like when you're on the phone, saying " I love talking to you on the phone like this...I've noticed you're so shy with me when we're actually together... are you embarrassed about what's been going on between us?...I just want to know...because I really like you and would love to give US a try...what do you think?...I hope I haven't misread you..."

of course allowing for her responses in there, but something soft and sensitive like that may do the trick. I think sh'es interested but not knowing her I can only guess. There could be something else. But either way, if you ask you'll know.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

tooth

So, right now she's freaking out....
" I'm getting mixed signals from him. He finally kissed me after the concert, which turned into a great make-out session. Then I see him at class this week, and nothing. No kiss, no hug. Just some friendly chit-chat. WTF?"

Melka

I'm with Schatz in that I've probably done this before myself to a guy.

Maybe on the night after the concert she went further or did more things with you than she normally would or normally wants to. Maybe now she's worried about what you might be expecting from her. Maybe she likes you so much she doesn't want to make a mistake or put you off somehow. Maybe she doesn't like you that much but wants to be friends. Maybe she's not comfortable with PDAs. Maybe, maybe, maybe..

The only way you're going to know for sure what crazy thoughts are going through her head is to ask her. Don't pressure her and make sure you talk about this in person. Talking on AIM/Messenger or the phone leaves so much to be desire and you won't be able to interpret her body language and tone of voice really into what she's saying.

dlish

too many maybe's.. maybe she loves you too much that she hates you. and like that she wont get hurt.. what a load of..nevermind... feels like games to me. play hardball if you can. if you ant stand the excitement just ask her in person.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

nightstuff

Had that happen to me a few times, and each time it ended up being that that she was embarassed about the situation and didnt know how to handle things towards me, so did the thing most people do in those times: avoided it.

When I saw the same behaviour in another girl i went out with, I flipped this line on her:
"explain something to me...how is it that we can have our tongues in each others mouthes one night, and the next day you seem to barely know me. Do I embarass you?"
...
"its not like I expect us to be all over each other, but what I do want is for some basic acknowledgement that you care for me...if you do."

Ended up that she just needed time, which i gave her, and in time things did improve alot.

Make sure if you confront her about her behaviour (and i think you should), that you are damn certain about what you expect from her, and are prepared to explain it with clarity. Be able to give a list of examples (in situation x, i expect behaviour y), based upon what you is important to you. Don't make it a guessing game for her.

To me she's already sent you some strong signals that she wants more than friendship, and probably just needs time to get comfortable with her role in your relationship. Being open about your needs and expectations should speed up the process ten fold.

MEAD

Things are sort of crapping out, I think I let the indecisivness go on too long and now the tension that there used to be is turning to bordom with this constant stalemate. I wanted to strike with this conversation when we were getting on really well, but it seems as if I let that chance pass me by and I'll now have to talk to her as a last ditch effort to get us back in shape. Please ladies, don't make out with us and then act uninterested, that's damn confusing.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

GoldenOuroboros

Uninterested in a whole, or uninterested in sex? Just cause a chick makes out with you doesn't mean she wants other things, or so I've found out with my current gf. And there shouldn't be a 'chance' for a conversation, just say something, anything, learn to speak up abit, if things are getting boring take her somewhere. Don't wait around for her to do something or you maybe waiting forever

__________________
Can you see me grin grin grrriiiiinnnning?!

gotekix

Ah, I've had this happen to me numerous times in the past. From the way you speak I can tell that you're a pretty easy going nice guy (not that it's a bad thing), which acting accordingly, will lead to situations like this. I say this because I'm the same way. These situations usually arise for two reasons:

1) You come off as a friend at first to the girl until you finally muster up enough courage to make a move, which the girl will like and usually accept because she thinks you're nice. The next day she'll still like you but think it was too quick of a transition from going from "friend" to "boyfriend material" over such a short span of time. Unless you confront her and ask her about her feelings in person (don't use computer or phone) she'll start to grow distant and not show any love for you.

2) She's a shy somewhat prude girl and always wants the guy to make the first move. Once you make a move on her she'll accept as described in scenario one but this time she'll regret leading you on like that. Because she is afraid of telling you how she feels about the situation she'll avoid you because she really doesn't know how to tell you this. You, not being the most upfront and brave person, will start to worry about her not liking you and you'll question your relationship. This leads to all the "what if she's thinking this or that..." which will just bring your demise. In this case, stop wondering and just ask her straight up what the deal is with you and her.

Think of it this way, you'll never know unless you ask. It's better to find out now so you can still get things going before the spark dies out. Or if worse comes to worse, you can find out that she's not interested anymore and pursue other girls. You don't know how many times stuff like this has happened to me and I just waited it out forever. Then years later the girls ask me why I didn't make a move or tell them how I felt. The least I can do is help others out in similar situations. Carpe diem my friend.

dublhelix

hey, this may be just me, but youre going about this all wrong.

have some CONFIDENCE, man. talk to the girl. say "do you like me or not? im obviously infatuated, and the fact that you are ignoring me hurts."

and if she says she doesnt, get with her sister.

__________________
A Freudian slip. Where you say one thing and mean your mother....

MEAD

Yeah, you are right. I just think the whole formality of having to ask someone to be with you is really childish. I think its totally awkward and dumb. I don't understand how someone cant just be upfront with their emotions, without me having to send in an offical request for their affection. I mean damn, how am I going to stay interested in this person if they are waiting till the ink is dried on our boyfriend/girlfriend papers to be affectionate. I think that is childish. I feel bad for anyone who has to gaurd their emotions so closely for fear that someone will take advantage and hurt them. It's really unattractive to me.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

nightstuff

Then find yourself a new girl. I'm sure this chick has elements of the girl you are after, and maybe you could make those shine in time, but either it wasnt the right match or you had the wrong approach.

My best guess is that her avoidance was a defensive mechanism meant to keep you at a safe distance. She probably liked you, yet wanted to keep you within arms distance.

If you still want things to work with her, then if I were you I'd make damn sure you are showing her a good time before you start talking terms and conditions. Otherwise, the moment you broach the subject is the moment you get transformed into wuss ass with a bleeding heart, and she will just counter with some "i wasnt ready" excuse, and never go out with you again.

oh and for what its worth...most of the times, if I had to ask a girl if she was into me, then the answer was no. Remove the following phrases from your vocabulary:
Was it good for you?
Are we more than friends?
Do you love me?

Some people might insist that its just being communicative, but I say bullshit; communication isnt just about words, and 9 times out of 10 you already know the answer. And if you dont, then start paying more attention to the clues. Feeling like you HAVE to ask is usually a good warning flag that trouble is amist.

SERPENT7

Mead,
You are doing the classic 'We kissed therfore i own you' thing. Stop expecting that just because you fooled around once that it means things have permanently altered to a sex-on-the-menu relationship. Yes things have changed, but at the same time 'relax, dude.'

SERPENT7

Also,
Women are just like us, they don't always know what they want, and sometimes they regret moving too fast, but we don't always allow them to back away w/o terminating things.

MEAD

Welp she says she doesnt know, which I translate to mean... you are wasting your time kyle. Well thanks anyway guys, at least I know now.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

gotekix

Move on to better stuff amigo.