anleja

:}

Ustwo

So Mary is hotter than Jen?

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

anleja

;]

maleficent

/me rolls eyes at Ustwo
/me is going to ignore the sure to be comments about why he can't have both women...

If he doesn't give it a go wiht Mary - -and ends up married to Jen, would he always wonder what might have been, and would he be truly happy for the rest of his life with Jen? Would he always wonder.

Sounds like he's staying with Jen for now out of duty and obligation, and not wanting to hurt someone... Not because he loves her from the bottom of his toes and she makes him a better person. If he doesnt have the 'toes' and he's only staying out of obligation - that's the wrong reason to stay with somoene. He may love her, as a person, because she's there and comfortable, but is he really In love with her -- from his gut?

Mary is someone new... that may not be the real deal either - or it might... I have no answers...

__________________

Ustwo

And apparently hot

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

MageB420666

Who does?

Staying with someone out of a feeling of comfort and obligation is not a good idea. That's what my ex-girlfriend did with me, she stayed with me for a year after she realized she no longer loved me, and told me nothing until she gave me her break-up speech. It hurt me a lot worse than it would have if she had just come straight out with the truth as soon as she realized it. One thing your friend should ask himself is: "Am I lying when I tell Jen I love her?". The answer to that question should help him out.

__________________
Apathy: The best outlook this side of I don't give a damn.

ngdawg

There might very well be a hotness factor he is reacting to. Only he knows for sure. Maybe the best way to know is to bide his time. It's only been a couple of weeks. Best analogy I could give is like having an older dog(sorry) and you see a really cute puppy. The dog is tailored to you, been around a while etc...but oh, how cute that puppy is!!! Those eyes, that new puppy smell...must...have....
A chance at 'truer love'? There's no way to know, hence it is a chance. He should get to know Mary a while longer at a friendship level. Is he questioning his love for Jen or just having new feelings on top of them? How long have they been together? Can she still excite him?
There can be more than one true love in a lifetime. But only he would be able to answer 'how much is he willing to risk', for he may very well end up with nothing.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

anleja

;]

anleja

..

amonkie

It is possible to love more than one person... and we love each of them differently. As far as monogomous, exclusive relationships, however, motivations can answer a lot of the questions, as well as just being open and thinking and letting time play it's part - If he is honest with himself, he will see the answer that he requires for the moment.

__________________
Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Sage

I like the puppy analogy. Seriously, tho, tell him to wait it out. Instant knee-jerk attraction happens to the best of us, but when you find someone you can be with forever, who (after three years, like Jen) still is all PDA with you and loves you just the way you are... well, it'd be totally folly to give that up for some woman he just met.

Time reveals all things... tell him to heel a little!

__________________

analog

Puppy breath is awesome. lol

Anyway, i totally agree. He needs to just cool his jets a little. Attractions come and go, and this one may go after the initial infatuation has cleared... if he does still really love her, then he needs to act like it and let life play itself out. If he's truly "meant" for the other girl, they will naturally develop a deep friendship that may turn into more. Infatuations come and go, and they can mimic the feelings of love really, really well... but real love doesn't just flow like a river, it's a special thing between two people.

Also, since they're practically engaged but for a lack of funds, he's also got to keep in mind that if he had just enough money, they'd be engaged or married- and then he'd be thinking about leaving a fiancee or wife. Does that mean more to him? I'd think it should.

zVp

My words exactly Sage.

Tell him to wait a bit and feelings will become more and more apparent and more precise. A similar incident happened to me as well. I basically really fell for my best friend's sister (who is 3 years younger than me, and still in high school, while I'm just a freshman in university). Me and her got close while we all camped together with her family. I decided to just wait. Maybe it's just one of those things. I didn't want to screw anything up, especially since it was my best friend's LITTLE sister. I felt guilty, but I really liked the girl. But still, I decided to wait it out and although the outcome was "meh", I think I did the right thing. Unless she liked me as well (I think she did), I don't think I should have made the first move, considering my age difference.

So, yeah. Tell your friend to wait a bit. See if it makes things more precise and straight forward. If it doesn't, make another thread and tell us the updates :P

__________________
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

Martian

A bird in hand is worth two on the wing.

If] he loves the girl he's with, is that really worth breaking up what he has for a chance?

I don't believe in hollywood. These chances don't necessarily work out and he could end up kicking himself in the ass. If he's not in love with Jen she deserves better than to be deceived, but if he is in love with her than he should stay with her.

Part of his problem may be an inability to recognize that it's entirely possible to be in love and committed to one individual and attracted to another. I tease my girlfriend about her crushes and she does the same. My finding someone attractive (or her for that matter) doesn't have an impact on our relationship because we both recognize it for what it is. It's superficial; I may be in love but my heart's still beating which means other girls will occasionally catch my eye. That doesn't mean I don't find her attractive and it doesn't mean that I don't love her.

I've explained it as best I can. I've seen people of either sex have issues because they're unable to reconcile an attraction to another person with being in love with someone else. I'm not saying this is the case, but it may be worth pointing out to Jim. Ask him if he truly thinks he's in love with Mary or if it's just 'cuz she's hot and point out that it's normal to have those little crushes. Then ask him if he's in love with Jen and if he is if it's worth throwing that away for this new girl.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

slimshaydee

The first feeling I got from the situation was that it was a situation of love v lust. He obviously lusts after this other girl, most likely because of the whole wanting what you can't have forbidden fruit kind of thing.

anleja

..

Johnny Pyro

If it was ''true love'' with Jen, he wouldn't even think about Mary.

__________________
"From delusion lead me to truth, from darkness lead me to light, from death lead me to eternal life. - Sheriff John Wydell

JustJess

There's no point in his telling Jen yet... not unless he's done something or plans to do something about it. Cooling the jets is the best idea. The new person... may be the best thing ever to happen to him, but honestly, there's no way of knowing and it's pretty unlikely that she's so much better than Jen. I don't suppose he happens to be near his goal of paying off the bills/etc that will make it possible to get the rings? Fear is a subtle motivator sometimes... insidious.

Just remember (and this is coming from a woman)... she may be hot and interesting and wonderful, but someone, somewhere, is sick of putting up with her shit.


Edit: Pyro... that's just not true. Take it from someone who is in love, and has discussed this idea with other people who are actually in love... Love isn't perfect. It's hard work, and it's wonderful, and sometimes you can have a crush on someone else and it has nothing to do with your true feelings for your SO. I'm in love, I'm not dead.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

sn33k

What kind of connection is he talking about and what does it have to do with becoming romantically involved with Mary? It's possible to feel a deep connection with a person and just keep them as a friend without sex or romance coming into the picture. A vague feeling is alot to risk for years of built trust. He just met her, i mean, comon... he's only seen one aspect of her personality.

That's my problem with the "one" fascination. Isn't it just a way for people to fall in love with a fantasy?

pig

So this Jim character is a guy, right? And he's been dating the same girl for 2 years, and now he's looking at getting out of debt to buy rings and houses? Is he sure he's ready to settle down? Deep down inside himself? For this reason, and all the reasons given above, I'm backing the cool your jets and let the situation come to you angle.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Acetylene

Jim is planning on marrying Jan. It seems to me that he's looking for a permanent relationship at this time in his life. After all, searching for permanence is the reason why we date in the first place (horniness aside).

He's wondering whether he loves one woman more than he MIGHT love another woman, but when one is looking for marriage, "Whom do I love best?" is the wrong question to ask. A more important question is, "Who will be my partner in all my undertakings, the person I work well with, the person who will be my best friend and supporter for the rest of my life?"

The idea that marriage is based entirely on love is a relatively new one in human society, and judging by our divorce rate, it's not working too well. Love is hard to define, and many people depend too much on their hormones when deciding who they love. When you're dating someone, it's enough to love them--but when you're marrying them, you need A LOT MORE than just love.

If Jim loves Jan but doesn't have the "partner/best friend/coworker" relationships with her as well, then their marriage may indeed be a bad idea, and pursuit of Mary is understood and probably a good idea. But if Jim does have these other requirements, then EVEN IF he might love Mary more, he should still marry Jan. This is the foundation of marriage and families, and of the true and real love that developes over a lifetime and cannot be predicted or even felt during the courtship stage of a relationship.

__________________
There's no justice. There's just us.

lurkette

It's easy to fall for a new person who represents an unknown factor, a blank relationship slate that's all mysterious and smacks of adventure and that tingly "new fling" feeling. Especially when you go home to the familiar and comfortable that makes you sigh with contentment but not necessarily with passion.

People are perverse. We always want what's on the other side of the fence, even if we have no idea whether the grass is really so green and lush and tender, or if it's just very convincing astroturf. I'd say your friend would be foolish to throw away his perfectly good, if "slightly used" relationship with Jen for a new, shiny relationship. If he's having serious doubts about Jen, that's one thing. But if it's just that he's having feelings for Mary and that's making him question his commitment...well, as Jess wisely said, he's in love, not dead. Everyone in a serious relationship goes through doubts and temptations.

I can see several outcomes:

1. He dumps Jen, and Mary turns out to be the love of his life. Hooray!
2. He dumps Jen, and things don't work out with Mary, and
a. Jen takes him back (ouch, but yay!)
b. Jen doesn't take him back (double ouch, you lose!)
3. He stays with Jen and wonders "what if" for the rest of his life. Join the club.
4. He stays with Jen and is perfectly happy. Yay!

I think he needs to look at each possible decision and wonder which ones he's willing to chance, and which outcomes he's willing to live with. Myself, I always prefer known quantities, but that's just me.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

guthmund

^^Wise words from a wise woman. ^^

Look, in my opinion and it's certainly not the definitive one, love is what you make of it. What I mean is that anyone can be absolutely miserable in a relationship if they try hard enough. The new girl is hot. She's an unknown. She's exciting. She's a mystery that wants to be solved. The old girl is still pretty hot, but he's discovered most of her secrets and explored the mysterious unknowns, so, she's a bit boring.

Personally, I'd take boring any old day of the week. Exciting and mysterious is good, but comfortable and familiar is so much better, in my opinion.

I'd say get the old boy to settle down a bit and take a little time. I'd tell him to not tell the old of the new and keep the new at arm's length for a while until he's sure he's sorted all this mess out. Only then can he objectively look at the situation and come to the 'right' conclusion, whatever that is.

Cooler heads prevail, right?

__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.

Busstopboy

I have been married for 10 years and during that time I have come to one conclusion.

The WOW factor is a dangerous thing.

When you meet someone new and are attracted to them, you go insane. Called it phermones or hormones or whatever. It's after that wears off that you really know that you are in love with a person.

The question is this: Is Jen his best friend?

If that's the case, then stick it out.

That's all that matters in a long-term relationship -- communication and trust. If you don't have those two things, your doomed.

Stompy

People will always wonder "what if.."

People come and go. Sometimes when you're in a relationship, you will meet someone you THINK you connect with better than your partner. It happens, however, you need to sit and think about the consequences of pursuing a temporary interest and WHY you're thinking about doing so.

Maybe he's unhappy (even subconsciously), or there's some kind of desire he has that isn't being properly fulfilled.

To me, it's simply not worth losing what you have if what you have is good. If you have trust, someone that cares about you, and the feelings are mutual, do NOT fuck with that. He WILL regret it.

Of course, there's also the possibility that his new interest may lead him to a better life, but I personally wouldn't even fathom risking it. It's simply not worth it.

__________________
I love lamp.

anleja

..

maleficent

better to do it now, then when it involves lawyers, child support and equitable division of assets...

People change and their feelings for people change... Doesn't really make him a bad guy... Just as long as he's honest.

__________________

pig

yeah, I think when you've gotten to the point that you're doing the calling someone for 3-4 hrs. a night (incidentally, that's just some whacked out shit right there by itself. 1. who talks for 3-4 hrs. every night with anyone, and 2. his girlfriend already knows something is up. Your SO doesn't have 3-4 hrs. every night to talk to someone else, and you not know about it) and you're throwing around the backrubs and whatnot, it's pretty much titanic-ville. This should be a classic.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

5757

I totally agree with the wow factor opinion. It sounds to me like it's more of a physical attraction with this *new girl. He really needs to be honest. We all know honesty is the best policy. I hope the situation with the *new chick doesn't turn out to be a temporary mistake. Sounds like that is what it is though.
Maybe not.
It's too bad there is a child involved. Jen having a son, and letting her son and this friend of yours spend time together, will proabably cause her to be even more upset than she would have been had she not had a kid. I'm sure Jen wants a family and was planning on that, looking forward to that. I just went through a situation similar to this. My guy didn't tell me about the other girl. I found out the hard way (phone bill). I hope you encourage him to be honest. He's got to think about that child. He needs to explain things to Jen so that she may explain things to this child.
A little honesty and some time apart seems like it would to the trick!

__________________
Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint, Forever in debt to ((your)) priceless advice. - Nirvana

World's King

"There are as many types of love as there moments in time."

Billy S.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Poppinjay

I think this bears repeating from Just Jess:

<b>Just remember (and this is coming from a woman)... she may be hot and interesting and wonderful, but someone, somewhere, is sick of putting up with her shit.</b>

The world of untethered hot girls (and guys for that matter) is littered with trouble.

Dating a hottie, who is a co-worker, may end up being a much larger problem itself. Especially now that it's apparent she's willing to steal him away.

If he follows through, and hooks up with Mary, I would give it maybe 7 months before he realizes that Mary is totally a human being who picks her nose, farts occasionally, and reverses her underwear. If she doesn't dump him first.

But at least he won't wonder, "what if?" Maybe, "why did I do thid?" Or, "can I chew my arm off and sneak out the door?"

Or he may get fired.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

anleja

..