lonesome_tom

I've been a lurker here for quite a while, and would appreciate some advice on what would appear to be a mundane subject.

I just got divorced (no kids); I'm in my mid-30s; fairly well-built and I take care of myself. Unfortunately I work in the IT field, which means I don't see many women around at work.
Recently I was forced to relocate to the silicon valley and I'm finding it really hard (no pun intended) to find a decent woman to just go out with. I mainly attracted to smart, intelligent women only; the Paris Hiltons of this world don't do it for me.

So I'm trying this online dating thing (match.com, nerve.com, yahoo personals). My ad is up on Nerve, and I have contacted about a dozen women who seemed to be active. I sent each of them a polite message describing why I found their profile interesting, etc.
Out of the 12, not a single one responded. Not even a "sorry, not interested".

Now I'm new to this online dating thing, and I'm hoping folks here can help me out here.
Should I send them a note again? Should I keep it short and to the point, or should I blabber on? Are there any tricks to writing successful initial contact messages?

The main problem is that even though I'm well-built (many women in the past have commented about my broad shoulders, strong arms, etc.), I'm a big nerd upstairs. I am a bit shy too, which means I can't usually approach women in the grocery store or library.

So here I am, at the mercy of a group of strangers, pan-handling for some words of wisdom.

ShaniFaye

Dave and I met on redpersonals.com, we had our first date the day he received my answer to his ad and we have not been apart one day since (it will be two years next month), but do you know for the life of me I cant remember what his ad said. I only remember answering it cause he was in the age range I was looking for and lived near by me. He had no picture in his profile either.... I did though, I was dressed in my cute mini kilt and corset.

I dont advise that you recontact them....they could be in a relationship by now, or have more on their plate than they can handle and arent checking it anymore. Just be patient and honest!!!

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

bad jane

i wouldn't contact them again either, for the same reasons shanifaye already mentioned.

and while i adore the idea of a personals ad (always wanted to try one, doubt i'd ever actually go through with it though), my suggestion is to meet women as you meet other people. keep your ads up, but i'm sure you do something that allows for interaction with people outside of work.

do you hang out online? girls do too! we are in forums, chat rooms, we play online games--all great places to meet people. have any hobbies? if there is something you love doing, there's bound to be some sort of club for it. i really think a person's best shot at finding someone to start a relationship with (even if it never gets beyond friendship) is to have some sort of starting point. if you meet while doing something you both enjoy (or while trying something new that you both end up hating!) then you are already off to a better start than if you met at a bar because at least you have something in common aside from a desire to drink and get laid (not the strongest foundations for a relationship).

apolian

Online dating sites, unfortunately draw some creepy people and it's hard to know the difference between the good & the bad. I met my fiance via forum just like this, when we had a group meeting of members off that forum.

Other than that, I think your best bet is meeting someone in the real world. I know it's hard, especially when you're shy, but you're better off just pushing yourself.

Good luck

777

I agree with apolian. Most online site have an uneven ratio of guys to gals. Java Life is like 10:1. So any a lot of messages you send with get gobbled up into some kind of mush that is a full inbox of messages to delete.

For fun, I heard a guy tested this theory my opening an account as a women. Provided no pic and left the profile blank. For some reason, it would still receive messages daily. All they know is that it might be a woman.

Try writing, "I like sex" in your profile. see how that works. Personally, I think you're better off at the grocery store or library. Don't think about it, that'll just make you nervous.

Just do it.

__________________
"I don't know that I ever wanted greatness, on its own. It seems rather like wanting to be an engineer, rather than wanting to design something - or wanting to be a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip."

Roger Zelazny

Minx

I tried the online dating thing. Lesson learned....there are a lot of FREAKS out there!

I was lucky enough to meet some really great people but no-one that totally clicked so I opted out. *shrug*

I think the best advice given so far was to get involved in a group that has the same interests as you do. That is the best foundation to start off with.

Good luck!

__________________
You've been a naughty boy....go to my room!

Craven Morehead

Join a health club, get involved in some community organization. Do something active with other people. Make some contacts beyond your work place. Just a thought, or two.

rmarshall

I met my last few girlfriends on Dreammates.com. I live near Kingston Ontario, so there aren't too many freaks there. I met a few women that responded to my ad and dated them. The ones I eventually hooked up with were the ones that I contacted. My current girlfriend just seemed to like all the things I do. (Self-employed, has a motorcycle, lives on a quiet lake nearby, etc.) I been with her three years.

I actually had some fun with it and created three profiles. One, a kind of sucky guy looking for long-term relationship, sensitive, caring, etc. The 2nd, a casual dating guy, rides a motorbike, loves going out, rock and roll. The third just for sex, looking for attractive, fit women for regular sex, etc.

The best dates responded to the third profile. I even had one married woman from Ottawa area send me X-rated letters and photos for weeks. Never met her in person. Turned out she was just briefly seperated from her husband for awhile, then went back to him.

Try different profiles and see what works.

Buk

I met my wife online back in 97 when the internet dating thing wasn't more than just a message board or two.

I asked my wife one day why it was that she instant messaged me outta the blue, this is what she said, 'I needed someone to talk to, and girls think your weird if other women message them, so I IMed every single guy online from Washington."

Yup, no picture on my profile or profound statement made one bit of difference, it was just being in the right place at the right time. Its alot like real life, you might bump into the woman of your dreams, but she needs to be looking for the man of her dreams or nothing you do or say will work.

Just keep trying, you are bound to get some nibbles on the line, and after you do keep casting it out there.

lonesome_tom

Thank you for the great replies.

Being in the Silicon Valley, the job keeps me at work till late (7pm) every day. I like to volunteer (environmental causes, vegetarianism, etc.) but it takes time to find a good vol group with interesting people. I live in the southern part of the peninsula, which is a total sausage factory.

I chose online dating sites like Nerve.com because the quality of the women seemed higher. I'm looking for women who'll be more compatible, and with online sites, I can (for example), see who's a non-smoker, has a graduate degree, has no kids, etc. In real life, it is difficult to meet and ask these questions in a reasonably small amount of time. I like rmarshall's suggestion of different profiles; I'll try that out.

Please keep the suggestions coming..

maleficent

Check out www.volunteermatch.com - -they are not a dating site, but a site that has volunteer opportunities all over the country... some are one time only opportunities, others are more of a time commitment. there's generally something for everyone... (and while you might not meet the love of your life, do-gooding is always a good thing)

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kangaeru

I've got a desk job and a lot of time this summer, so I've dabbled in this stuff. Although we have some great success stories here, in general, I have found if people are online and looking for dates, its usually for a reason. Well balanced, genuine, friendly people (who you also have to find attractive) are rare-- I never found one. I never even met any of the people who contacted me / I contacted because after chatting with them on the phone they'd always have some kind of deal breaker which just nixed the whole thing for me.

Tom, the best advice I can offer you if you want to get a girl, is practice talking to them everywhere you go. Always say something extra, make a comment, nothing sleazy, but just get them talking. At starbucks, the girl at the counter at the gym, the girl who opens a changing room door for you at the mall. These times are when you find out questions and strategies that work with women--it doesn't matter if you make mistakes here because they're basically freebies. You've got to learn somehow. The more you talk to them and get comfortable with it, the easier it will be for you to stay yourself around girls you're interested in, and it becomes much easier to meet people.

If everytime you're talking to a girl you're interested in, it's like being up to bat with 2 outs, down by one in the bottom of the 9th, you're never going to get anywhere because the pressure you put on yourself is crushing. In addition to looking online, I'd recommend doing stuff like that to help you out with your shyness, and to ease yourself into being able to meet people comfortably when you're face to face.

By the way, I'm not advocating flirting with every girl you see. I'm just saying, say something. It breaks the ice with a total stranger, and the more you do it, the more comfortable you get. Even just 1 comment which makes them giggle or starts them talking or something, you'll be amazed how little it takes to start just a little chit chat. That's all the first step in dating usually is, little chit chat. Doesn't matter if you've got all these other qualities if you're not able to get enough speed to get off the ground, know what I mean? Gotta focus on the chain of events and work from initial stuff.

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Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

rmarshall

That's the thing about online dating. Women have to be looking and they do look when they go online at a dating site. They may not be looking while doing other things. The girl at Starbucks may just be busy or trying to get through the day. She's not looking for guys, usually.

Another thing, they are not all ugly losers. Look for the create or modify date to find the recent postings. They good ones get snapped up quickly. The fresh posts could be gorgeous women who just decided to get another date. The ones that have posted ages ago could be dogs, or could be so busy, they haven't checked their messages, or could be taken and haven't bothered to remove themselves from the site.

World's King

I found my girlfriend on MySpace.com. I don't suggest it though. Mostly 20-somethings with nothing better to do.

You can't expect instant results. Take your time and be honest. Don't go askin' for naked pics right away. Trust me.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

islandflea

I met my husband online in '98...still with him. If I recall correctly, his ad started something like "looking for that gypsy lady..." It was cool that we chatted/emailed for a while before talking on the phone (he was in WA and I in KY) and even longer before we met in person. I did not try to impress him (well, too much anyway, LOL) and neither did he...just pretty casual.

The number ONE reason why I kept chattin with him is that he NEVER got too personal and "intimate" ...hell, we didnt know each other really! He was always polite and never insisted on my details (exact location/number...). If hed been a cyber freak or too nosy... I would have cut off the contact asap!

Thats my suggestion to start IF you are determined to use the web as a resource...dont be in a hurry...friendly chat first.

lonesome_tom

Don't go askin' for naked pics right away. Trust me.
No, I would never.
My basic problem is that I'm a nice guy: I'm upfront, honest and very down-to-earth (all cliches, but all true).
So far I have contacted about 10 women online at Match and Nerve. In each instance, I started politely, complimented them on their profile; specifically listed why I thought their profile was interesting; thanked them for reading and gave them my email address where they could get in touch with me if interested.

To my surprise, none of them responded, not even with "sorry, not interested". Basic manners would dictate at least a response.
Which leads me to 2 possibilties: they are pricks, and I'm better off without them (a possibility).
Or that my initial contact message somehow lacked something in the "protocol", which is what brought me to this forum, wondering: is there some formula that's supposed to be followed for such contacts?

PS: thanks for the VolunteerMatch suggestion; I'll be putting that site to good use!

777

To me, it's kinda of a numbers game, like spam. You send x messages, and will recieve y responses. Where x > y. Just keep doing what your doing, someone interesting will get back to you. Sometimes x/10 = y Or x/20 = y Or x/50 = y. It's the Brad Pits and Johny Depps that are like x/2 = y (or better) that make us average Joes look bad

Just hang in there and keep your head up.

__________________
"I don't know that I ever wanted greatness, on its own. It seems rather like wanting to be an engineer, rather than wanting to design something - or wanting to be a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip."

Roger Zelazny

sonuva72

I had a good experience with online personals through Spring Street Networks (they affiliate with sites like Salon, the Onion, Nerve, and many others), so I'll run through what worked for me:

First of all, make it personal. I was pretty selective about the girls I would write to. Occasionally, when I hadn't had a date in awhile, I'd start shotgunning, but for the most part I was diligent about targeting my approaches to good matches. As a young hot-headed male I'd start with pictures, but I wouldn't reply to everyone who looked good. I would stick to girls who I had a lot in common with. It's important to hit it off right from the initial email, so pick out some of their interests that you share, and make reference to them. Point her to places in your profile that she'll like. Let her know that when you talk on the phone for the first time, or meet up for the first time, you'll have some immediate connections.

I met four girls in person from internet dating, one of whom became my girlfriend (going on a year and a half). Each of the others I'd be happy to have a friend, because they were cool girls. By the time we met, we knew we had shared interests, and could hold entertaining conversations.

That leads into my final piece of advice, which is to be entertaining. From the first email you send, keep her smiling. Your personality sounds similar to mine, in that you are shy in person, but you're obviously able to compose a good sentence. Use the advantage that you have when you communicate online to write and revise until you come up with an introduction you like. Try to find that delicate point where you are being humorous without being cheesy or fake. If you jump out of the crowd by immediately pointing out that you share a favorite movie, or both love a particular band, or sport, or whatever it is, it will give you an advantage when she's running through her inbox.

Best of luck!

777

Hey gang, did some digging and here's a sample of what I found:

Review of Adult Friend Finder: http://www.whichdatingsite.com/seere...de=129&&cat=-1

"Tough Male:Female ratio, but do-able

Reviewer: Dr. Adonis from San Francisco, CA, 4 Mar 2005

I've been a Gold member of AFF for about 6 weeks now, and the following are my statistics.

Emails sent: 268
Emails received: 68

Girls contacted: 200
Girls with returned email contact: 35
Girls I've IM'ed with or had continued contact: 15
Girls I've met in person: 5
Girls I've actually taken on a date: 5
Girls I've had sex with: 3
Girls I continue to have sex with (and carry on a friendship): 2

Total hours wasted on the site: Circa 100.

Anyhow, I know someone who works there, and she tells me there is a 15:1 M/F ratio. The 15, of course are all men who pay about $20 per month. So, just like the real world, women have their picks. If you are persistent, a good writer and have a nice picture, your odds as a man go way up. But don't get me wrong, it's very difficult.

Certainly a much better deal than Ashley-Madison (0 girls, 55 dollars) or Philanderer's International (1 girl, 18 dollars).

Good Luck."

And here's a freeby: There's a site called www.AmIHotorNot.com that rates user photos on a scale of 1-10. Put your favorite pics of yourself on there, and use the best ones for your online personals

__________________
"I don't know that I ever wanted greatness, on its own. It seems rather like wanting to be an engineer, rather than wanting to design something - or wanting to be a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip."

Roger Zelazny

lonesome_tom

Thank you for the stats 777. Quite eye-opening.

I guess the thing that bugged me somewhat was that I took the time to carefully pare down the profiles, write down reasons why I thought it was a good match; composed an intelligent email and sent it off, only to get no response. Heck, even a "thanks, but no thanks" would have sufficed.
Of the 12 women I have contacted so far, none replied. Is it that they don't teach manners anymore?

bad jane

never done personals before--so take the following with a grain of salt!

i consider myself a polite person for the most part. i think i have good manners and try to be considerate of others. however, as a woman, my instinct when approached online by a guy that i have no interest in, is to ignore it. if he's sending me emails, private messages, instant messages, whatever and i'm not into him, i would ignore him.

that may seem rude on the surface, but if you have ever had someone that wouldn't take no for an answer, you might feel that way too.

when i was married, i had a guy from a forum i visited often start sending me messages constantly. i told him i was married, not interested but thanks all the same. for whatever reason, he took this to mean he should be more aggressive. he hounded me to the point i changed emails and quit visiting that forum--but for months after that he would constantly send messages to friends and family (who also visited that forum) trying to get in touch with me. i later found out from others that he had done that before (and since). he fixated on the fact that a woman was responding to him and completely ignored what she was saying. the women who ignored his initial advance, he never bothered.

i realize you aren't contacting women out of the blue--personals are designed for the type of contact you are initiating. however, i would guess the chances of running into guys like the one i knew, are significantly higher when you put your profile on a dating site. a run in or two with someone like that, it's easier to just ignore people you aren't interested in and circumvent the potential hassles of a cyber-stalker.

vautrain

I agree. Replying to a personals contact with a "no thanks" opens the door for subsequent contact. If that's not what the woman (or man) wants, then it is not wise for her to do so.

trib767

Nobody seems to have mentioned this...
Most of these sites work on the basis that it is free to register but you have to pay to send mail (fair enough) but also to read received mail. Usually there is no way for the sender to know if the recipient is actually capable of reading the message (by being paid up).
Thus, a large portion of sent mails won't actually be read because the recipient can't read them.
I've often thought they should allow reading messages for free as it would encourage a sign-up so a reply could be sent. If a honey sent me a mail and I wanted to reply I'd probably pay up.
That coupled with the high ration fo guys to girls makes this game very hard...

FngKestrel

No one's mentioned eharmony.com. I've had a few friends meet their current girlfriends via eharmony. I tried it for a while and met someone who was like me, almost too much like me. It was kind of creepy.

The process at eharmony is:
1. Take personality quiz. It's fairly in depth, so this is not a place to skimp.
2. Fill out profile. Generic crap.
3. Wait for matches. You don't get matches immediately, but it will match you up within a few days.
4. Examine match's profile. Initiate next step communication or close contact.
5. Next step - send out 5 questions from a grab bag of real low key questions, the stuff you'd ask on a date.
6. Respond to questions. The questions are multiple choice, so easy enough to answer without a lot of commitment.
7. Read answers. Continue to next step or close communication.
8. Send out must haves/can't stands. These are criteria that you know that you cognitively know you want.
9. Read match's must haves/can't stands.
10. Continue or close.
11. Send out open ended questions. These are longer, short answer questions that are more in depth. They have a batch that you can send, or you can use some of your own.
12. Respond to match's open ended questions or close.
13. Continue to open communication, which is unregulated communication, but still through eharmony's site.
14. Continue to communicate outside of eharmony.

Lots of luck.

lonesome_tom

I understand your wariness based on your personal experience. But a "personals" site would be different from being approached out of the blue on a public forum, right?

On the personals site, the women have put up their profile soliciting advances. Secondly, most personals sites have options for blocking users and reporting harassing users. Thirdly, these sites (Yahoo! personals, Match, Nerve) have a policy of requiring payment to send email; an abusive user would get filtered out quickly.

Jesus Pimp

Look into taking an improv class. It will help you build your confidence and you'll meet cute girls too unless your whole group is a sausage party

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

jader9920

While I may be an exception to the rule, I met my girlfriend through a gaming clan.
I think the personals sites are overrated. The require you to enter a lot of information that people will make snap judgements on.
Where as meeting someone on a non-dating site and just sparking conversation based on that I feel builds a stronger bond as you immediately will have something in common.

Bob Biter

First of all Tom, do you have a pic to go with your ad? If not, then that explains the complete lack of responses. I've posted a total of two profiles on Nerve (the first about three years ago, the new one since I've returned from abroad), both with pics and I got mail from women. That's right: women paid for credits and spent them to talk to me. I've met some fantastic people (and my share of nutjobs) without spending more than I normally would on a night out. That's what pics will do for you. On Nerve, you can post up to 3 of them, so vary your choices (full-body, close-up of face, funny moment, etc.).

Also, many girls put clues within their ad as to how to contact them for free, so you can check that out as well. I always look at profiles with pics, so I make sure to post some as well. Pics, pics, pics!

Finally, when you send messages or reply to them, never forget humour. Making women laugh (with taste, obviously) will beat being overly polite any day. Ever notice how "sense of humour" always ends up so high on the little polls asking what women like in a man? Bingo. This, and your ad, make up your first impression. Good luck! PICS!

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A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

lindseylatch

You seem to be harping on this "manners" thing. I mean, I agree that it's somewhat rude, and frustrating, however, there's no mother looking over their shoulder and it's a lot easier to just toss your message than to try to come up with a polite "thanks but no thanks." It's not as emotionally draining. It can be really hard to reject someone, it's much easier to just ignore them. So, anyway...chill a little, dude, take a deep breath, and dive back in.

Now, as to all that work you put into your messages...that could have been part of the problem. You were coming off as WAAAAY too interested. Desperate, even. Chicks don't like desperate, that means you have nothing to offer. And we are looking for the man with the most to offer...

Ok, here's an idea. I'm sure you spent a ton of time on your profile, made sure everything was nice and perfect. Delete that. Write in the craziest things you can think of (that are still true). For example, you like to watch tv shows about sharks, or something. Just wierd and crazy and totally out there. It'll be way more likely to get responses than just another vanilla "I like walks on the beach, blah, blah, blah."

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HoneyPot

Hook a sister up! I'm always up for an older guy!

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hrandani

hehe. Pretty good advice