hossified

...made the jump about 6 months ago and moved in with my gf. First place we got kicked out of because HER cat, so we moved again, into a real nice place. Well she is admittedly messy, and I am by no means a neat freak, but don't like dirty dishes, pots etc..lying around. I am constantly after her to put these things away or in the dishwasher cause she just leaves them out. That one usually ends up her calling me 'her father' and me putting the stuff away, cause I can't handle it anymore. Also, I decided to splurge and go out and buy a 2500$ tv. Well yesterday she decides to play with her cat in front of it, throwing a little foam ball towards the tv, and the cat jumps and gets it.....well after a few misses, the cat decides to go for a 'high' one and flys into my new tv. Well at this point I think I blacked out from rage, and lost it.......asking her why she does such stupid things? She leaves the room in a tantrum and I haven't spoken to her since. Now how can I rectify this situation, without causing a huge problem. We've been going out for 5 years now.....but if this keeps up I am seriosly thinking about leaving. I take all these little antics as dis-respect....and any time I tell her this, she gets super defensive, and ends up blwoing it out of the water. I'm tired of not being able to discuss things like adults!!! (we're both 27)

help me!

maleficent

Living with someone is an adjustment... and it takes time... I doubt she's being disprespectul to you on purpose.

One thing you mention that stands out.. that you are "always after her to put things away...." Well... to me that's nagging, and if it were me I wouldn't do something because I'm being nagged to do it... You aren't her parent, you are her boyfriend, you shouldn't be nagging her to do anything.. (Put the shoe on the other foot - or whatever that expression is - -How would you react to being nagged to do something?)

Sit down with her and talk to her about how you are feeling - not what she is or is not doing. Put together a chore schedule about what needs doing and who needs to do it... Do this together...

It also sounds like you are both working out territory issues... "her cat" "my television" You are living together, "Our" should be entering the vocabulary more.

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scout

Just talk to her and be honest, admit you were being an ass, apologize until your blue in the face and promise to attempt to never be an ass again but please forgive you in advance just in case you are {which you invariably will at some point that's a given}. That should be a good start. Then in your own time step back and think about what's really important in your life. Begin to make decisions accordingly.

hossified

i realize it probably is nagging, but at the same token, I don't want dirty dishes covering the countertops that I use, for days on end. There is no reason for it, we have a dishwasher!!!! And as far as MY tv....I totally see it as mine and not ours, because I am the one paying for it, and to me 2500$ is alot of money. If it gets damaged, it's coming out of MY pocket. And same goes with HER cat. Trust me there are all kinds of compromises going on behind the scenes, and I am by no means some unbearable slave driver to live with....but these are basic things, that should come along with being 'grown up'.......I'm not living in a student house anymore....

scout

If the dishes bother you that much then place them in the dishwasher yourself. As far as the television, does she help financially in other ways that make it possible for you to purchase such an expensive set? If so then maybe you should take that into consideration.

drakers

Well I lived with my wife 6 months after we met because she became pregnant after two months of meeting. So I know what your going through, we are still learning to live together after 4 years, but we are married now and have learned there is a an equal amount of work that needs to be done. We both know that if something is dirty we just do it and just don't expect the other to have to do it. But we also talk about the inequalities, because I have a tendenticy to fall off the cleaning horse but she will usually let me know about in a nice conversational way. You both just have to talk about what problems you have and what are some ways to solve them, it will help greatly. Take her out to eat so that you can have a little fun and at the same time talk about your relationship over dinner; it helps to have a comfortable atmosphere around you especially if she doesn't stay around to talk about the tough things in the relationship. It would be hard for her to leave a nice restaurant so try this option if you can't think of anything better to do. Good Luck.

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Bill O'Rights

Bingo! All of those idiosyncrasies and quirks that you found so cute in the beginning now become anoyances. In any relationship there is a large amount of give and take. It all boils down to just how much you are willing to give, and how much you need to take. Mrs. O'Rights and I have been married for ten year, and I hold my tounge...a lot. As does she, I'm sure. Choose your battles wisely. How much damage is kitty going to do the TV? Is it worth getting in a row about? The dirty dishes? That's a communication thing. Express to her how important to you that it is that dirty dishes be put into the dishwasher. Don't nag...remind.

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hossified

the way I see it (of course)...is not necessarily nagging. I've asked her super politely at times to put her stuff away and she still reacts back very stongly instead of just doing it. And as per your suggestion of just putting them away myself....that's what I usually end up doing, but I'm not a maid....because on top of that I take the garbage out, I vacuum the place, I pick up her clothes and put them away......that's the part the bothers me. I can only clean up after her for so long until I think "what a sec, I can manage to clean up after myself, so why can't she?"

Averett

The person doing the nagging never sees it as nagging

This is freaking me out a bit as I'm about to move in with my boyfriend. As if I didn't have enough to worry about!

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Charlatan

Are you together or not?

I find it interesting that the TV is yours and not ours... Sounds like you have some sharing issues.

You are really going to have to adjust your outlook if you are going to continue to live with someone like this (as opposed to having a roommate).

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wolf

Ok, well, everyone has shortcomings. I am sure there is some stuff that you do that drives her nuts. Well neatness is one of hers. Living together is all about compromise and communication. Honest communication, you need to have the sitdown with her and say " you know what this drives me crazy" It is true, you are not her maid, just as it is true that she is not your sounding board. Just because she doesn't do one thing doesn't mean that you get to nag at her. Compromise, if you do the dishes, maybe she can help with the vaccuming. My wife and I do this. She does everything laundry related, I do all of the cooking/trash stuff. She does bathroooms, except the shower/tub, I do those/ I do all of the floor cleaning. We have worked it out. You have to do the same. I have stuff from when I was single, so does she,but since we've been living together, it is ours. There isn't any mine/hers, there is only ours now. If the TV breaks you should share in the responsibility of paying for it. My wife and I got a joint checking account as soon as we knew we were going to live together. That way there was no mine/hers, only ours. Not any one person gets everything their way all of the time. That is immature, maturity is realizing that everyone is their own person with their own faults. Is this really something you want to end a 5 year relationship over? Dishes?

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hossified

i'll admit at times it's nagging but I get the same repsonse whether I nag, or ask with the sugar and gumdrops approach.....so why put in the time and effort to be all nice when I get overeaction either way???? Cripes.....it's simple hygenics, clean up after you are done!!!!!!!
i don't get why that is so hard to understand?

...as far as the mine and hers....we aren't married, so there is definite division. Again, if I'm working my tail off to pay for this tv, and she isn't doing a thing...than yes it is mine. Same goes for her, she has her own computer and I don't go near it. Is there no transition between living together and being married for 50 years. When I'm ready to have joint accounts and joint ownership, than I will get married......but until she picks up after herself and shares in the daily chores (closer to 50-50 versus the current 90-10)....there ain't gonna be no wedding!

MiSo

honestly, it sucks that you have to be the one to clean up everything. its annoying and living in filth sucks. you can try doing things seperate like having seperate sides of the counter/dinner table/coffee table. and having seperate hampers. that way you'll clean your mess and she'll have to learn how to clean hers. also have a cleaning schedule that you guys can follow.

example, if you guys have to clean the microwave
you do it on monday, she does it on thursday.
same with vacuuming, set certain days to do chores
and make a check off list to place on the fridge.

hossified

that's a good suggestion, but I did the whole chart on the fridge when I was 12!!!! It's frustrating to me, that at 27, you can't realize what is dirty and what isn't. By no means, does the place have to be ready for surgery....but a pot with leftover food on the counter for 3 days might be a little much??

..my problem is I don't want to have to make a chart etc, because that is just childish. And if I have to live with someone who requires that kind of 'parenting', than maybe i shouldn't be living with them.......

kollege_gal2000

I agree with this. It will help alot. I currently having the same problem with my b/f although we are not living together. I am not all that quick to clean up after myself. I live by myself, and now my b/f when he comes over expects everything to be spic and span for him. This may be how she feels. In reading previously, you mentioned that YOU move in with HER.

You should first and foremost talk calmly with her about what is bugging you. She may feel that you moved in and now you are trying to get her to change, through nagging, the way she has been for quite sometime now. She may be feeling some resentment and may be wishing that you hadn't move in not realizing how you would be when you did.

I do have one question. Before you moved in, did you spend time with her at her place? If you did was she the same way as she is currently? And if this is true, did you say anything about cleaning before you moved in?

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maleficent

maybe you shouldnt be living with them then... better to find out before getting married than after.

You really have to accept a person as they are, warts and all, if this is such a major issue to you... then maybe you should cut your losses now.

But... if you have strong feelings for this person, dare I say Love this person, and you must otherwise why would you be living with her, I'd think you would want to find a way to make it work. If something as simple as a chart helps, don't think of it as parenting her, think of it as coaching her... or just do it yourself and don't let it raise your blood pressure.

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hossified

actually we both lived on our own and moved to this new place together....and yes I used to complain prior becasue she was extra messy. Again, I clean up right away after myself out of repsect for somwone else living with me, so they don't have to deal with my crap in theri way....and when she leaves her stuff out, I take it as disrespect. I would prefer that instead of ME having to pick up after her, that she would clean up better herself, because she knows it bugs me sooo much. I'm thinking why should I have to be the one to bend over backwards on this issue, when I'm doing it with so many other things??? It's not like this is a little quirk, its hygenic!

kollege_gal2000

Like I said previously, I have the same issue with my b/f. In my case, I do try sometimes to clean up my place when he is around (again we don't live together). What I do recommend because it is lacking in my relationship is when she does something good express that you do notice her trying. That will help.

So first calmly talk about it like adults, no yelling/nagging.

Second, clean up after yourself, and leave her mess. If you constantly clean up after her, she will never want to clean because she will think that you will always clean up after her. Do not let this get to you at first. She has to notice for herself how much of an inconvinence it is for you before she will do anything.

Third, when she does clean up something, comment on it. I do not mean, criticize another room, or say "this is nice but you missed a spot", I get those comments, hence why I don't clean up much anymore. Comment on how nice it looks, or just the fact that you appreciate it.

I hope this helps!

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Spicy McHaggis

This is why I always recomend people living together before they get married. I couldn't imagine moving in after the honeymoon and THEN realizing that you can't live together without driving each other nuts! Then it's too late to get out!

You never truly know someone until you share the same space

firestormo

I did that with my G/F early on while living together... it worked great.. it took some time for her to stop complaining about having to clean so much.. but it was her mess.. she is better now.. just hit the aproach above and give it time.. if not... find a new girlfriend.

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hossified

the only thing that worries me about that approach is I don't think she will care if she has junk all over. I mean give it 2 or 3 weeks, and she will do a major clean.....but does that mean I have to be put out for 3 weeks, dealing with that?? I mean it's my place too! And by the end of that 3rd week I will be so annoyed, that I probably won't be a very nice person.....

abaya

It sounds like she has always had other people clean up after her, so she is falling into the same pattern (I used to be that way, too). You can't really get mad at her for that, but you can help her understand why things need to change if you are living together and sharing space while maintaining a relationship. (Has she ever had to deal with roommates in the past? How did that go?) Does she understand how much it honestly frustrates you, and that you are not trying to be controlling but just enjoy your living space?

I really echo kollege_gal2000... with these issues, I think praise and appreciation go a LONG way when it's done with consistency. Ultimately the other person does want to make you happy (at least, I assume so, if you have been together so long), and vice versa. I don't want to make my boyfriend unhappy with my criticism, but I also remain unhappy if he is messy (or even if I am messy and don't have the energy to clean it up). So instead of nagging, you might tell her, "I feel unhappy when you don't do your share of the chores, because I feel tired when I have to do them and then I don't feel good about us," or something that clearly expresses your emotions in reaction to her behavior.

I'm learning that most things, even negative thoughts, can be expressed honestly as long as they are done in loving, non-accusational terms. And if she makes ANY effort to clean up, affirmation is definitely important... pick up on those small things and praise her for it. This stuff is very helpful to "grease" your relationship in general and make it easier to request for help with chores.

guthmund

The best way to handle any problem is to get at it head on.

Accusations aren't going to work, reverse psychology isn't going to work and skirting the issue isn't going to work. You're just going to have sit down and talk about it.

You're not her father, nursemaid, or live-in caretaker. She's an adult, entered into the relationship as an adult, made the decision to live with you as an adult and now it's time to handle things like an adult. You love her and want desperately to get past this, but concessions will have to made and things will have to change for both of you if this is to get better.

Because it's not going to get better on it's own. Constantly going along and picking up after her isn't going to change a thing. Neither is waiting for her to get tired of the filth and clean it up on her own.

I hate to say it, but if she can't understand where your coming from (and vice-versa, mind you) then maybe you should consider the notion that you guys shouldn't be living together.

It all hinges and how much both of you want to make it work.

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amonkie

Everybody has said a lot of good stuff, but maybe something to encourage the cleaning process is to do them together. Throw the laundry in, then when it's done sit down together and watch a movie while you fold it. Turn some music on, wash the dishes and dance to the music when you're done. Neither of you enjoy doing it because you see it as a chore. If you can incorporate something fun and meaningful into it for you, then it'll go so much more smoothly. If hygiene is such a big thing, seriously take some dish soap, wait till she's not wearing her nicest clothes, playfully get some on her, then clean the dishes, hop in the shower when you're done and have fun. It's all about your perspective. You say you want to be adult, sometimes that means trying different things until you find something that works.

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Carno

Yeah that's a bummer dude. I know exactly what you're going through. It pisses me off to no end. I don't have the problem with a girlfriend, but with my roommates. Luckily I'm not trying to have sex with them so I don't really care if they get all pissy and act like bitches when I ask them to clean up after themselves.

To express my opinion very bluntly, who gives a fuck if it's nagging? It's basic cleanliness! If you want to live like a dirty pig, then expect to get nagged!

insidious_machinae

This message has been deleted.

abaya

Guthmund, that's quite a bold post... but in some ways I agree. I've just never been very successful at it, since most people (including myself) take their living habits quite personally and are offended at remarks to change those habits. Is someone more "adult" when they clean up after themselves, or is it more related to how that person was raised? (Is it more about maturity or living style?) Do most people really grow out of these things? And Guthmund, for you particularly, how do you manage to converse about these things without hurting the other person?

For me, I tend to get off my high horse of cleaning madness when I realize how messy I can be, too. But that doesn't help, either, as I feel that no matter who does it, the house ought to be clean. So then I get frustrated with myself in addition to the other person, which is just not good.

Squishor

A lot of people have made a lot of suggestions on the chore issue so I won't say anything about that. I have that issue in my household too, and I don't know that I have the perfect solution.

One thing I see is how you said it's hard to talk to her about it because she reacts. So maybe you could say to her how much you want to get along (prepare her to be favorably disposed to what you have to say), and then explain what she's doing (flying off the handle) and tell her it makes it hard for you to talk to her. Ask how you can talk to her so that the two of you can have a conversation and work out the details. If you just directly present her with the problem you're having this way and ask for her help, maybe you'll get somewhere. There's probably somethig you don't realize that's causing her to over-react, and she may not realize it either.

This worked for me, when I was getting really defensive every time my boyfriend tried to talk to me about a certain thing. Finally he told me, "It makes it really hard for me to talk to you when you react that way" and asked for my help, as I suggested. I immediately wanted to help more than anything, and I was able to improve my behavior. Maybe it'll work for her too.

HookedOnChronic

I guess we must have it pretty easy, because we never plan who is going to do what - but our place stays pretty neat most of the time and the workload seems to even itself out. We work different schedules most of the time so it's nice to come home to a clean house when my SO has been home all day! Lucky I guess

If you can keep yourself lighthearted when you bring this type of stuff up it would probably help. Whether it's the first time you asked or the most recent, people in general have a tendancy to react in a defensive manner when confronted offensively. For example, she's at work and you clean for the afternoon and when she gets home it's nice and tidy - you say "Pretty Good don't you think? Next time it's your turn!" in a lighthearted tone.

Also, you have been going out for a long time, it might be time to start thinking more "ours" and less "mine" like maleficient said. Your GF might take that kind of stuff personally.

Demeter

One consideration may be for the both of you to fork over a few bucks every week or two to have someone come in & clean for you. That way its clean, you don't have to do all of the work & she's doing her part by contributing her share of the bill.

Kid_Karysma

She doesn't clean up after herself because she doesn't give a damn.

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guthmund

Thanks.

First of all, believe me, I'm not a not a neat freak, far from it. I have a tendency to leave things lying about. Books, magazines, glasses and the list goes on. It's not something I do consciously. It just happens.

On the other hand, as an adult, for lack of a better term, I also realize that I don't have someone to clean up after me. I don't have the extra cash to pay someone to clean up for me, as a side note: I wouldn't if I did. And it certainly isn't going to go away on it's own.

At first, I had to make a conscious effort to pick up after myself. I could delay the inevitable, but, in the end, I'm going to have to do it. So I choose to do it in small increments of work rather than one big day of working my ass off to clean up every couple of weeks. At 26, I realize that I'm not a teenager living at home anymore, I'm not living in a dorm where, it seems, it's acceptable and there are always other people to consider.

I've almost always lived with someone else; my family, a couple of roommates and one stint with girlfriend. I realized that I can't very well expect them to clean up after me, so, the 'adult' in me compromised. As much as I want to leave the glass on the table or leave the books, CDs, video games unshelved, I can't very well expect others to do my work and not expect some heat for it. So, I do it. I make the conscious effort to do it to avoid problems in the long run. Does it make me more 'adult?' Maybe. I am taking a bit of responsibility for myself, not much mind you, but a bit. If that's what 'adults' do, then, yeah, I guess it does.

As for broaching the subject, well it's all about respect for that other person. I see no reason why two 'adults,' again for lack of a better term, can't sit down and have a conversation about anything. One doesn't have to be confrontational to be direct, mind you. That's not to say that that happens all the time. As long as the conversation is serious in tone, without accusation and sarcasm free with a free exchange of ideas and feelings, it seems to work just fine as long as those involved are willing to really listen, willing to compromise and willing to make it work.

I've tried all other methods. I've tried praising. I've tried regular psychology and its' reverse. I've tried jokes & sarcasm, which is really just passive aggression wrapped up in dry wit. I've tried the carrot approach. I've tried the carrot and stick approach. They're all good methods for training animals or interns, although I'll admit dogs don't get the sarcasm and it rarely works with new hires. Some of them seem to work on the job, but that's not the same as a relationship such as with friends, family or lovers.

In this case nothing works better than a direct approach. Anything else and I'm not respecting them enough to come clean and relationships don't last long without respect. From both sides, mind you, as I would expect them to do the same for me.

Well, that was a little long winded, no?

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hossified

well...update...it is now day 2 of the 'not talking to you' approach she seems to be taking. She comes home from work and goes in to the bedroom and closes the door behind her. And I'm just stubborn enough to go along with it, since she is the one who started the silent treatment. I'm not about to 'fold', and go chasing after her, when I feel she was in the wrong, and because she was the one to initiate this approach. So I've made an effort, to meet up after work at a coffee house so we can talk some stuff out. I want to get across to her that this is VERY serious, including her silent treatment reaction, and that this is really damaging our chances (I found myself yesterday looking at one bedroom apartmentsin the paper, to get an idea of budget and cause I am so fed up).......there have been some real good suggestions on here......but I need some more. How can I now get across to her the severity of this issue, without her feeling like I am personally attakcing her. I know that if I start rhyming off alist of things I am unhappy about, she is just going to shut down and not even listen anymore.....??

Schwan

I've read all that you've written so far, and to be honest, I question the point of you living together. A relationship should be about two people being comaptible with each other, and apparently you are not. It's an issue of balance - do the good things outweight the bad? Apparently they don't. If you do feel that there's more good then bad, then I guess you're the one who should give up issues related to your comfort. You don;t have to break up, but it might be a good idea to reconsider living together. That's my opinion on the whole thing.

hossified

I think we are compatible, we are just still in that transition phase, when 2 people start to live together. We are both pretty stubborn, and to an extent spoiled. I think the maturity level is the big difference right now. She has been and still is babied by her parents, and I expect more adult like behaviour. You can't expect to live together and have everything be rainbows and butterflies off the bat. I don't want to throw in the towel after such a short time living together, but at the same time, if this is how its' always going to be, I know I can't handle it. So I'm looking for ways to improve the situation, because aparently what I am doing right now is not working at all.

Janey

it really sounds like you aren't compatible together. Maybe you two should have a hard look at whether you should persist. Are you guys in love? or is it an inertia relationship? if there is love, then there shold be an equal (in theory ) compromise in the adjustments to living together. i recall that your (other thread) statement that she and you are only a once per month couple was also a source of frustration.

sit down and lay the cards on the table... that's what iwould do (and have done...)

hossified

I'll be honest that after 5 years, I am affraid to lay it all on the table, and yes I am in love. I'd rather work things out, than give ultimatums, but am losing ideas for ways to fix things?

abaya

Guthmund, thanks for your response. I can really see where you're coming from... it echoes a lot of my own process, though I'm still working on how to be direct (and also not a hypocrite). It definitely helps if you expect that other people to hold you just as accountable as you hold them.

Hossified, I would ask your gf (when she calms down) if she prefers to live alone, and if so, discuss what that means for your relationship. If you can maintain a relationship without living together, I'd do that until you are ready to try living together again... sounds like less stress all around. Also might be helpful to ask her what she'd like her house to look like, ideally. What kind of home does she want to come home to? Does it match up with your idea?

hossified

at this point after 5 years dating and the last 5 months living together....if this doesn't work out...than that's it. There's no going back to living on our own.....if we can't make things work now, than we never will. That's the opinion I hold. Good idea though to ask her what her ideal house 'condition' is....

Schwan

hossified, it's great that you want the whole thing to work. Communication is the key. Talk, talk, talk, until you get sick of it. I know myself that I'm the champion in giving out this advice to everyone, and then I fail miserably at it in my life, but I know that most of my failures come down to a lack of propoer communication.

I like Janey's ideas - turn the whole thing around, ask what she expects, what she wants. It might turn out that she dosn't want to be neat at all, even when it comes down to her surroundings. You said earlier that she said that you are acting just like her Dad. Well, my Mom is thesame way. Her father was a neat freak, and she decided to do everything not to be like him, and she's at it for years. What I'm getting at is that some things might be irreversible, and you should know what your fiance wants in life, and how she wants it.

So there, some advice, and now it's back with a shovel to sorting out the mess that my life is :>