My boyfriend's problem with my past - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Janie · 11-12-2004, 10:53 PM

The story goes, we hit it off, we got together. Fast forward ~4 months:

We have the PAST HISTORY conversation. I'm young, I'm clean, and I don't have a large number of past hookups (6 not including my current man). He asks, and I tell him things like who, when, why. Four out of six are one-night stands. He freaked out completely. Sex is really important to him, and he believes one-night stands to be wrong. After this first conversation, for 4-5 months we continually had arguments about my past, with him making comments like "How could you possibly do something like that?" and overall making me feel like an unworthy whoring slut who cares nothing for the wonders of the loving relationship. We were apart for the summer, and he finally told me my past doesn't bother him anymore.

Through this all, I suffered (and am still suffering) a huge downward spiralling libido. This also caused many arguments and sleepless nights. First I orgasmed rarely, then none at all, then I just didn't want to have sex anymore. Every time I didn't orgasm he'd curl up into a corner and cry and ask me why I didn't love him, to which I repeatedly answered that I did, but he continued to ask me questions like that. He was also under the impression that sex in my other long-term relationship was stellar and wholly without problems, to which I also assured him it was not perfect.

About a month ago, I admitted that I'd fallen out of love with him. I still love to spend time with him, and I wish things were different. This led to a talk about why he'd had this huge problem with my past to begin with. It turns out one of his exes had cheated on him with his best friend, and he'd also cheated on one of his other exes, though it wasn't intercourse. He confessed to me that not cheating was higher up on his list of morals than no promiscuity. I don't understand why he has such a big problem with me not matching up with his morals when he himself violated his own morals and seems to have come to terms with that fairly quickly.

Now I can't stop thinking about this entire chain of events. It's ruining things more, and we're arguing more often. I can't help still feeling depressed and angry about all this, even though he apologized and says he isn't bothered by it anymore.

What do I do? Advice would be great, especially if something similar has happened to you.

Lockjaw · 11-12-2004, 11:00 PM

Quote:

About a month ago, I admitted that I'd fallen out of love with him. I still love to spend time with him

You just answered your own question with that one honestly. No offense and this is going to sound harsh but you are better off cutting your loses and moving on. Things aren't going to get better. You can either chose to stay and be miserable for the next few months or you can start the process of moving on with your life.
Suffice to say you guys just likely are not compatible and there's nothing at all wrong with that and doesn't mean either of you are bad people just means you aren't right for each other.
Good luck.

Janie · 11-12-2004, 11:08 PM

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I love him (at least I think I do, he really makes me doubt it), but I'm not IN love with him.

CaneBay · 11-12-2004, 11:09 PM

Agree with Lockjaw. It's not going to get better.

BUT: I didn't hear you talk about couples counseling. Maybe if you really wanted to be with him, counseling would work. But ti takes two to tango, and it sounds like you're "outta there."

Lots of couples break up, and remain friends.

You can do this if you don't do or say anything that you are not proud of later.

The other side of this is maybe the two of you didn't get to the really wonderful space of where you can be completely honest with each other. Trusting.

You know, things turn on the head of a pin. They really do. I practice law, and each case in the complex matters I deal with (3-4 years of heated litigation) always seem to turn on the head of a pin. Relationships are the same, in my experience.

If you want to chat more, let me know. I have more to share on this thread.

God bless.

Janie · 11-12-2004, 11:16 PM

We haven't been to couple councelling, though we have gone to see a doctor about the lack of sexual activity.

The problem is I feel that I do love him, but I'm not in love with him. That romantic aspect of it is almost completely destroyed because of the months of sexual dissatisfaction. We have set a deadline, that is, if things don't seem to be improving by the new year, then we'll end it. What I want is to help things to get better so it doesn't get to that point. I don't know it that's silly or just wishful thinking on my part.

Kalnaur · 11-12-2004, 11:17 PM

My thought, try counseling. If that doesn't work, say good-bye to the guy. And good luck. You're going to need it.

CaneBay · 11-12-2004, 11:29 PM

If your heart is not there to try 200%.then it's not.

There are a lot of nice guys out there who won't blame you like some right winger for having a sexual past. If I where that guy, I would appreciate your honesty and treasure the current love that you have for him.

Hell, I had 5 or so girlfriends by the time I hit college and that didn't lessen my intense feelings for a girlfriend. Love em all, but most of all the now.

You girls up in Vancouver shouldn't spend the winter worrying about this stuff ...

shortynickel · 11-12-2004, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janie

Through this all, I suffered (and am still suffering) a huge downward spiralling libido. This also caused many arguments and sleepless nights. First I orgasmed rarely, then none at all, then I just didn't want to have sex anymore. Every time I didn't orgasm he'd curl up into a corner and cry and ask me why I didn't love him, to which I repeatedly answered that I did, but he continued to ask me questions like that. He was also under the impression that sex in my other long-term relationship was stellar and wholly without problems, to which I also assured him it was not perfect.

IMO maybe i took it the wrong way...correct me if i did...but that sounds like he was trying to get you to become the person he wanted you to be...or he wanted to emotionally abuse (sorry if thats harsh), due to the fact that he couldnt handle that you have had a few one night stands etc.

i would have to agree that if counselling doesnt work i wouldnt stay...cause i dont see it getting any better at all...anyway good luck with this hun!

guthmund · 11-12-2004, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janie

Every time I didn't orgasm he'd curl up into a corner and cry and ask me why I didn't love him, to which I repeatedly answered that I did, but he continued to ask me questions like that. He was also under the impression that sex in my other long-term relationship was stellar and wholly without problems, to which I also assured him it was not perfect.

Wow. There is so much to say here, but I think I'll just stick with this...

I would imagine that who your sleeping with now matters more than who you slept with in the past

Love is hard enough without having to wade through the bullshit issues. Of course, that's just my take on it.

CaneBay · 11-12-2004, 11:45 PM

guthmund speaketh the truth.

Rlyss · 11-13-2004, 12:13 AM

I think you already know the reason why he's so uppity about your past - he wasn't able to control his own actions and he couldn't deal with it so he's trying to control yours. He can't accept that you don't have the same rules as him, and it's double hard since he broke his own rules and hates himself because of it.

To be honest I do have a couple of jealousy issues with my partners, and I put that down to the fact that my first love cheated on me and left me for someone else, that AND she was cheating on her partner with me when I first met her. All of that took me a while to figure out, and come to terms with. I went from denial to anger and all those stages, now I've accepted that I shouldn't have encouraged her to cheat, and she shouldn't have done it to me, but the past is the past and I've learned from it and accepted it.

But no matter how you look at it your relationship with this guy is over and you're both going to be better off because of it. You'll find someone that is accepting of your past and he'll find someone with his same morals and high standards.

DJLaurieB · 11-13-2004, 07:01 AM

Ok, I dont' know how old the original poster is, or if it matters, but here's my advice for what it's worth.

I'm 35 and single. I make it a point to NEVER divulge the numbers. No good can ever come of it. It's one thing to talk about past relationships, that's more of what has shaped you as a person rather than the fact that you may have been a dirty whore in college. Which I believe most people go through at some point in their lives.

Here's why I think the numbers game is dangerous. Say for the sake of argument that I was sexually active at 15 (I wasn't). And say that I've had a few long relationships, a period of a few "one night stands" and maybe a few 3-6 month relationships here and there. That number easily gets up to 20 or 25 without breaking a sweat. (no pun intended). On paper, that number could make me a dirty whore. Do I spread my legs for everyone who comes down the pike? Not even close. Do I pick and choose who I share that with? Absolutely. But if someone I'm seeing has a way stricter policy about sex, like "only in serious relationships" and his number is closer to, say, 10....... hes' going to feel like I'm "dirty" or that I've been around, when it could be a hell of a lot worse.

I find the older I get that men worry less about the past and numbers, and more about the here and now. Past is past, and should stay there. At my age, it's hard to find anyone without some serious skeletons in the closet, and I know just as I wouldn't want to indulge every little thing I've done.............I don't think I want to hear about it from a lover either.

Just my $0.02.

adam · 11-13-2004, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janie

He confessed to me that not cheating was higher up on his list of morals than no promiscuity. I don't understand why he has such a big problem with me not matching up with his morals when he himself violated his own morals and seems to have come to terms with that fairly quickly.

He's got a judge in his head judging everything -- you, but also himself. Don't assume that he isn't beating himself up about it inside -- people often do. Men often try to deny that or at least avoid showing it, because it doesn't fit in with their conception of what men are supposed to be. He's still lost inside the dream of control, where he feels responsible for (and threatened by) the actions of others.

If you don't love him, best advice is to move on.

adam · 11-13-2004, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janie

We haven't been to couple councelling, though we have gone to see a doctor about the lack of sexual activity.

The problem is I feel that I do love him, but I'm not in love with him. That romantic aspect of it is almost completely destroyed because of the months of sexual dissatisfaction. We have set a deadline, that is, if things don't seem to be improving by the new year, then we'll end it. What I want is to help things to get better so it doesn't get to that point. I don't know it that's silly or just wishful thinking on my part.

Sorry, hadn't read this far. It isn't silly, but even if he starts counseling today it will probably take a while to show results (and he has to want to change to change at all). So I don't think new year's is very realistic, but only you can decide how much you want to risk on this relationship.

pinkie · 11-13-2004, 07:51 AM

That shit is none of his fucking business, and he has no right to judge you. If he can't handle the truth, and feels the need to persecute you, then he has A LOT of growing up to do.

That is so unfair, and so so so so so so wrong.

Grrrrrrr.........

Pisses me off just thinking about it. How dare he?????????

Sorry, but he just needs to be put back in the oven til he’s done.

Quote:

What do I do? Advice would be great, especially if something similar has happened to you.

Dump his ass.......

Sure, I've gone out with an imature asshole before too.

adam · 11-13-2004, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJLaurieB

Not even close. Do I pick and choose who I share that with? Absolutely. But if someone I'm seeing has a way stricter policy about sex, like "only in serious relationships" and his number is closer to, say, 10....... hes' going to feel like I'm "dirty" or that I've been around, when it could be a hell of a lot worse.

Only danger is that if he figures it out otherwise, he may feel lied to and deceived. The reality is, if he isn't comfortable with who you are, he isn't for you. Trying to hide bits of yourself to avoid rejection is a dangerous game, IMO.

doncalypso · 11-13-2004, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janie

The story goes, we hit it off, we got together. Fast forward ~4 months:

We have the PAST HISTORY conversation. I'm young, I'm clean, and I don't have a large number of past hookups (6 not including my current man). He asks, and I tell him things like who, when, why. Four out of six are one-night stands. He freaked out completely. Sex is really important to him, and he believes one-night stands to be wrong. After this first conversation, for 4-5 months we continually had arguments about my past, with him making comments like "How could you possibly do something like that?" and overall making me feel like an unworthy whoring slut who cares nothing for the wonders of the loving relationship. We were apart for the summer, and he finally told me my past doesn't bother him anymore...

In all honesty, I understand his point of view because I also hold myself and others to very strict standards when it comes to sex and relationships. However, given the fact that what you did in your past was in the past and that you probably gave him no reason to suspect you'd ever cheat on him he had no right to make you feel dirty and whorish.

I've been cheated on too, so I can definitely understand why your past would scare him because he's afraid that you might cheat on him like he'd been cheated on.

Aladdin Sane · 11-13-2004, 07:58 AM

So much to comment on here.
1. You two must be young. Late teens I would guess. For this reason alone, I say cut your losses now. Don't string this bad relationship out.
2. He is very insecure and jealous. This may or may not change with age.
3. He has a false view of sexuality--expressed, in part, by his reaction to you not having an orgasm. He needs to be educated, but you're probably not the one to do it. Not at this point anyway.
4. Your view upon sexuality seems to be more realistic and healthy than his. If you are young, as I suspect, it is quite usual for the female partner to be more mentally and emotionally mature than the male-- this is a fact of life.
5. Here's the part we in Western civilization have the hardest time coming to terms with. If you are a romantic you will hate what I am about to say. You say that you love him but you are not "in love" with him. One thing we must learn, to maintain sanity, is that love is not something that happens to you. Instead, love is something you do. Love is a choice you make. Love is action. Yes, there is that first pleasurable feeling of anxious euphoria that accompanies the beginning of a passionate relationship. That is what is commonly called being "in love." Problem is, humans are physiologically incapable of maintaining any emotion for a long period of time. Once the emotion wears off, and it will, you must honestly evaluate the relationship and your partner. Does this guy have the characteristics I require in a partner? Do I like this person? Should I choose to make a commitment to him? The point is, you have a choice to make, and it should be a rational one, based on a logical process.
I hope something I've said is helpful.

**Aladdin steps down from his soapbox, tripping on his beard.**

st33lr4t · 11-13-2004, 08:36 AM

sounds like he is insecure with himself and just trying to control you. your young like you mentioned...and not sure about your feelings with him. i would walk away, it might not be easy but your "relationship" isnt worth the headache it is obviously causing you.

i really dont see this getting any better while the both of you are still together. sure he says it doesnt bother him anymore...hes gonna do what he can to hold onto you. ive been in a couple relationships like this. his attitude isnt going to change overnite.

just remember this is his problem and not yours.

Zeraph · 11-13-2004, 09:26 AM

Break it off. But you may not want to listen to me, I don't believe "love but not in love" crap. You either love someone or not and it def sounds like you do not love him.

Janie · 11-13-2004, 11:34 AM

Hey all. I am the boyfriend about this entire posting is about. My girlfriend and I have always been able to talk to each other and be honest with each other about our relationship, hence my posting on here now as she has informed me of its existence.

See, the thing here that really sucks is this: I had a problem with her past. I'll admit it, I was a dick, and like so many here have said, I needed to grow up. Well, the truth of the matter is, I did. I'm a rational person and I know I treated her like shit, but everyone here might as well get the other side of the story before giving advice like "cut your losses" and such, as my girlfriend and I have talked a lot on this subject and she came here looking for genuine possibilites as to how to help our relationship. As she stated, we have already set a deadline for "cutting losses", so please, any further posts here need only be about ways to possibly help.

I am 23 years old. I had a very insecure childhood due to the fact that I was very short, unathletic, and academically very intelligent to boot (straight A+'s). As such, all the female attention I got in high school was along the lines of flirting with me in order to get my class notes, or to help with homework, and then metaphorically throwing me in the trash after my resources had been tapped. Then in final year I got a girlfriend, whom I didn't really like at first, but she was the only girl to ever have been seriously interested in me so I went for it. I am not proud to admit that I 'cheated' on her a couple times (just kissing) and I was very upset with myself afterwards, especially after I fell in love with her. We were together for 4 years, as I eventually fell in love with her despite not really liking her to begin with. After 3 years, though, she broke up with me because she had said she fell in love with a friend of mine (she never knew I had cheated on her as described above, and I thought everything was fine in our relationship). I talked her into taking me back, and we were together for the last year, and she was very happy and sorry for what she did. Unfortunately what she did caused me to never trust her anymore, so after a year of pain inside me (she never knew) I broke up with her, which crushed her. I came back home from where we were living at the time for the summer and after a couple weeks met someone else and we clicked completely. It was all-consuming. I was able to rationalize "i am on the rebound here, I shouldn't be doing this" but she assured me her feelings were genuine and I believed her. Things were awesome with her for 3 months. Then she cheated on me at a party that I was at with her, with my best friend. I was in the freaking house. I've never felt so completely devastated in my life: not only did my girlfriend do this to me, who I very much cared for and thought she shared those feelings, but my BEST FRIEND betrayed me. Needless to say we are not friends any more. I went back to school at the end of the summer.

Enter my current girlfriend. We hit it off really well as well, but I wasn't going to make the same mistake again. I courted her romantically (chocolate covered strawberries, small gifts wrapped up, etc.) and everything was great for quite a while. Then the topic of the past came up. i can not fully explain here how that made me feel. She had had a couple one night stands, and for some reason that really bothered me. I had a past too, but I always had sex in the context of it being a serious relationship: I do not believe in sex for physical pleasure. As my gf stated above, sex is very important to me as a manifestation of a romantic relationship. A couple without sex (IMHO) are just friends, and as such sex is just not something done outside of that context. It's not the be-all-end-all, but sex to me is one of the defining characteristics of a romantic relationship, and I will not have it outside of that context.

So, I had a problem. She didn't care about my past (not that I had much of one) but she wasn't even concerned with my infedility in the past, and for that I love her all the more. The problem here lied solely with me being a dick, thinking that I should be her 'only', and such. The problem that manifested later regarding her not orgasming and me curling up and crying was all tied into this same problem: i couldn't handle the thought of her past. And the reason for this was because of MY past. In my head, if she was capable of one night stands, then for some reason I thought it a logical conclusion that she would cheat on me, because no woman has ever wanted me in my life, and because if I was capable fo cheating, she was too. This is SO unfair to her it's not even funny, I know, but there it was.

To compound the problem, my girlfriend has never known and will never be able to understand my high-school experiences. I was lucky enough to be a late-bloomer, and eventually after high school grew up to six feet, strong, muscular, and athletic. Anyway, to cut this post down, let's cut to the chase.

I feel HORRIBLE about how I treated her, but I got over it. I AM OVER IT. i love her, and am so sorry I made such a big deal about her past. It seriously doesn't bother me any more. We had a good talk about a week ago about our relationship, and it was so good and meaningful that from that point up until yesterday everything was as it should be in our relationship: we were happy with each other, we enjoyed each other's company for the whole day for days, we had great sex on numerous occasions. But then we got in a bit of an argument last night and when that happens she admits that all this feeling of ill will towards me comes flooding up because of the way I handled the whole past thing.

So now here it is (And don't think this is behind her back... she's sitting right beside me as I type this). She says she still wants to try, and wants to be with me. i have no problems with her past or anything right now; i'm actually quite upset because everything was going so well until yesterday. But the problem, according to her (we had a good talk this morning just a few minutes prior to me starting this post) is that she is having trouble dealing with the problem I HAD with her past. She doesn;t understand why it happened in the first place, and she seems convinced that we can solve our problems if she can just be brought to understand why I behaved as I did, although i don't have a problem with it any more.

Please help. We need not posts saying "cut your losses and move on": we're not stupid, and we've already decided upon that course if it comes to it. But we are both mature enough and care enough about each other to give ourselves a chance together because when crap like this ISN'T happening, we really are very happy together. So, as I said, please help. Thank you.

Rich

st33lr4t · 11-13-2004, 11:56 AM

insecurities kill. i dont blame her one bit for the way she is feeling. of course she not convinced it doesnt bother you anymore. you didnt even convince me!...you said this "i have no problems with her past or anything right now"...and thats just how its going to be..."right now" things are good because they have to be or she will walk.

man ive been in the same situation. i was insecure about myself which lead me to trying to control my woman. how many times did i say to her and even myself "im cool now...its ok" ....yet it never was.

all i can say is time will tell. ...your pretty much left with proving yourself through your actions and not your words that your insecurities arent an issue anymore....that is if she is willing to let you.

11-13-2004, 12:02 PM

Looks like you guys are doing the right thing talking about it, and being open with one another. Carry on doing that and things might work out fine. Try dating one another again, start the relationship afresh as if you are both strangers, and see what happens differently. I don't know, it looks like you've worked through the worst of it.

As someone else mentioned, the fact that she says she's not 'IN' love with he sounds important. Loving, but not being IN love doesn't make sense. Are you friends or lovers? Do either of you consider getting into other relationships? Are you holding onto one another because there isn't anything else out there right now? These might be the hardest questions of all to even think about, let alone answer truthfully (even if you only answer to yourself)

Lockjaw · 11-13-2004, 12:28 PM

Well first off the "cut your loses" suggestions come up because frankly I'm betting just about everybody has BEEN in a situation like this and at least in my own personal experience it NEVER worked. Period. Many tried very hard but at the end of the relationship they just were all just emotionally and physically(and some fiscally) exhausted trying to salvage something that was never meant to be. But in the interest of being some what sympathetic I have some questions...

Quote:

I do not believe in sex for physical pleasure.

I'll assume you mean this in the context of it's not JUST for physical pleasure right?
If so does your girlfriend also have this feeeling? If not it's a basic difference in opinion that will grow and mutate into things much much more destabilizing. So you guys right now need to figure out if you are both on board in that regard.

Quote:

As my gf stated above, sex is very important to me as a manifestation of a romantic relationship. A couple without sex (IMHO) are just friends

I concur with this HOWEVER sex tends to cloud the issue in many cases. Many people use it as an excuse to mask problems in a relationship and others use it to inaccurately find problems that really don't exist.
Have you guys tried to take a step BACK regress a bit and try to rebuild the relationship a new? Kind of take sex out of the picture. It would give you both some time to do some soul searching and figuring out exactly what problems you both DO have with one another. Because frankly even if you don't have any more problems with her SHE has some definate ones with you right now. If she is saying she isn't IN love with you anymore that's pretty all but the last shovel of dirt on the grave of the relationship. But if you guys take a step back. Start rethinking things evaluate what you both want out of this relationship(how long term is long term for you guys, what are your plans beyond just "dating"). The sex might start masking an underlying problem instead of helping you guys heal so to speak. Suck it up figure out a time frame of how long would be a good amount of time for you guys to just explore each other as a people and then go from there.

And that's my suggestion...

Oh and another thing register your own screen name so people can figure out who's talking a little easier and also so people can give you guys advice via private message if need be.

Rich · 11-13-2004, 12:48 PM

Well first off I feel I need to reply to st33lr4t's comments...

You didn't listen to a thing I said. i admit to being an idiot. I don't blame her for mfeeling the way she does right now either, and i know I am to blame. As for your comment about "not being convinced", that's not my problem. We came to this forum for help, not to hear whether or not you believe my reasons for coming on here seeking help. Just keep in mind this that I didn;t mention: my acceptance of her past isn't a 'new development': I've accepted it for quite some time now. The problem now, at present, is that she has a problem with my having HAD a problem in the first place. We have talked, and she has told me that she doesn't hold it against me that I had a problem, she just wants to know WHY I DID, the reasoning being that if she doesn;t understand, she will probably always doubt, and thus she wants to understand.

As for dating anew, we've done that. And it's helped very much. I don't know if I'm really conveying our problem here very well. Everyone here seems to think that we're both miserable all the time. We're not. We're very happy with each other most of the time: the problem is that whenever we get in an argument, about ANY topic, she starts thinking about the way I acted in the past (regarding her past) and then she starts questioning the whole thing again because she still doesn't UNDERSTAND why i acted that way, despite the fact that when things are going well, everything is great. like i said previously, we're not stupid. We're looking for help. If we both thought this relationship was 100% unsalvageable, we'd ditch it.

For Lockjaw's reply, yes, I do mean JUST for physical pleasure. Sex is not something I will do for physical pleasure alone: I need the spiritual connection as well, of being with someone I know and care for (not someone I just met at the bar). And as for Lockjaw's suggestion about sex, it's really not relevant. Sex is not the issue here, at all. I hope I've helped clarify things a touch

Anyway, thanks all for replying.

Rich

Zeraph · 11-13-2004, 01:33 PM

You keep saying WE came to this forum for help. You mean SHE came here for help. It seems to me like you are still trying to control her, by not even letting her get her own advice.

"she will probably always doubt, and thus she wants to understand."
And she should, problems come and go, but the causes stay unless you do something about them. IF you can do something about them.

Peace.

Rich · 11-13-2004, 02:01 PM

??

I'm at a loss.... She came to me to tell me about this posting. I'm trying to control her by not letting her get her own advice? I didn't even know this board existed until she came to ME and told me of it, and opened it for me, and logged onto her own account so I could view it, and post a reply (hence my first posting is under her name). Every post I've written on here, except for this one, was with her sitting right beside me, she's read what I've said, and agreed with what I've said. So, I say again, I'm at a loss. I really don't see how I'm trying to control her when she was the one who came to me without any prompting on my part.

I'm sorry I've posted on here at all now. I came here in good spirits hoping someone would help us out, and I've been consistently attacked for it. I'm sorry you seem to have such ill feelings towards me. I guess I deserve it.

Rich

doncalypso · 11-13-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

??

I'm at a loss.... She came to me to tell me about this posting. I'm trying to control her by not letting her get her own advice? I didn't even know this board existed until she came to ME and told me of it, and opened it for me, and logged onto her own account so I could view it, and post a reply (hence my first posting is under her name). Every post I've written on here, except for this one, was with her sitting right beside me, she's read what I've said, and agreed with what I've said. So, I say again, I'm at a loss. I really don't see how I'm trying to control her when she was the one who came to me without any prompting on my part.

I'm sorry I've posted on here at all now. I came here in good spirits hoping someone would help us out, and I've been consistently attacked for it. I'm sorry you seem to have such ill feelings towards me. I guess I deserve it.

Rich

Hey man,

Don't take it so personally... you're still new so it takes a while to get used to how things go around here. It's just that many of us have some very strong opinions about relationships and sexuality. I'm certain no one is out to get your skin for this.

I've been through similar situations as you have, and despite my best efforts to be open-minded I do find myself harboring some double standards, and it is a daily struggle to keep myself in check and practice what I preach.

Don't worry son, you'll be alright. And by the way.... welcome to TFP.

Rich · 11-13-2004, 08:02 PM

Alright... I feel the need to reply again and apologize if it seemed I was taking things too personally. It is another bad habit of mine I guess. It's just that Zeraph's post seemed to me to imply that Janie came on here looking for help and then I found out about it and m now trying to 'control' the situation, which is not the case. Janie told me about this place and thought it was a good idea to see what other people thought, and I agreed. We are in this together, for the time being (to my relief), and I sincerely hope we can find some useful information here or elsewhere that will help us out. Thanks again, everyone... this seems like a good place to be.

Rich

Suave · 11-13-2004, 08:50 PM

Try to stay friends, if you still like being around him. -edited for harsh wording-

Janie · 11-13-2004, 10:01 PM

I have my answers now. To those of you who replied, thank you; it's much appreciated. I don't think I need any more replies though.

Perhaps I should have broken it off when the problem first surfaced months and months ago. However, I have put too much of my time and trouble into this, and my opinion dictates that I cannot just cut my losses at a moment's notice like that. I will stick by the deadline, see what can and cannot be done in this relationship and decide for myself.

I don't feel I received the kind of advice I was looking for, but that is mostly my fault for making the question unclear. Again, thank you to those who offered their advice and views on the subject.

DJLaurieB · 11-14-2004, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

Only danger is that if he figures it out otherwise, he may feel lied to and deceived. The reality is, if he isn't comfortable with who you are, he isn't for you. Trying to hide bits of yourself to avoid rejection is a dangerous game, IMO.

I don't think not divulging a "number" is necessarily hiding bits and pieces of yourself. You can say "oh, i went through a period in college where I was promiscuous" instead of saying "I once had 20 partners in 3 months". I think putting it the 1st way is open enough.

Numbers play a terrible trick on people. I know personally I'd rather not know. What matters at this stage of my life is....... is he clean? Is he faithful NOW? Do we have good chemistry together? If he slept with 200 people before me, I never need know about it, because he can NOW be the warmest kindest person in the world - but if it took him 200 partners to get there, I'm going to look at my relationship more cheaply - does that make sense? Like "I don't care if you love me, I'm still only 1 of 200 on your list".\

Starting to remind me of that Don Juan Demarco movie with Johnny Depp.
"How many women have you been with?"
"Including you? Well. let's see there's one.........................thousand five hundred and 1"

ratbastid · 11-14-2004, 07:43 AM

Okay, I hear that you're sticking to your guns about the deadline you set, and that sounds like the right thing. I just have this one observation for you to think about:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janie

I love him ..., but I'm not IN love with him.

This is going to sound a little harsh. That statement is completely bogus. It's a trite, over-used cliche that is designed to justify something. You're either justifying that the love is gone (but you're a nice person and you don't want to admit it), or you're confused and using "not IN love" to justfiy dominating the situation.

You feel controlled and manipulated. Fact is, Rich has been controlling and manipulating you--and he knows it. And you're using this "love but not IN love" BS to get back at him.

st33lr4t · 11-14-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janie

Perhaps I should have broken it off when the problem first surfaced months and months ago. However, I have put too much of my time and trouble into this, and my opinion dictates that I cannot just cut my losses at a moment's notice like that.

what do you mean you cant just cut your losses at a moments notice...you first say that this has been going oan for months and months.

this sounds like a good reason to stay with someone "I have put too much of my time and trouble into this".

a relationship is supposed to be a good thing...not something that causes stress.

CaneBay · 11-14-2004, 10:35 AM

Advice? Change your user code and screen name if you want any privacy on TFP. Rich knows who you are now. I think he's a controlling person and you should have some private space.

And NOT being in love with him? That's a sure sign you're hegging your bets and expecting to leave.

Get out of there, and chaulk it up as a learning experience.

In terms of TFP, it's a great cyber space for discussion and learning. If you leave your screen name the same, it means that you and Rich are using TFP as a communication channel. That could be a good thing ...

Read some erotica together with him and see what he likes, you like. Maybe sex will get better? (Assuming you want to work on things ...)

Good luck!

doncalypso · 11-14-2004, 12:26 PM

Hey everyone,

I can understand all of you guys' perspectives, but I think too many of you are too quick to write Rich off as some mentally insecure control-freak and aren't willing to give the guy a chance to redeem himself (or something to that effect). Let's face it, it's not easy for a guy to have to deal with the ghost of betrayal in a past relationship. Not that I agree with society's double-standards when it comes to male and female sexuality, but I too would struggle with accepting the fact that my girlfriend had been much more sexually experienced than me and on top of that didn't climax most of the time when we had sex.

I don't kow about the other men who've posted thus far in this thread, but I've been cheated on twice in past relationships, so if I were to date a woman who'd been with many more partners than I had in the past I would fear that I may not measure up to her past lovers and that she might be tempted to cheat on me if I didn't satisfy her rather than try to teach me the necessary skills to please her. In addition to this, I would be worried if the woman I was with had experienced a sizeable number of one-night stands and fuck-buddies in the past--despite the fact that it all happened before she knew me--because I wouldn't be able to get over the possibility that she might revert to those old ways and one day choose to cheat on me.

You guys gotta understand this.... Whether one is a man or a woman, being cheated on in a past relationship is a very traumatic experience, and it can be very difficult for a person to get over it. Hell!!! I still have to face the demons of past relationships and past betrayals to this day.

st33lr4t · 11-14-2004, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doncalypso

Hey everyone,

I can understand all of you guys' perspectives, but I think too many of you are too quick to write Rich off as some mentally insecure control-freak and aren't willing to give the guy a chance to redeem himself (or something to that effect). Let's face it, it's not easy for a guy to have to deal with the ghost of betrayal in a past relationship. Not that I agree with society's double-standards when it comes to male and female sexuality, but I too would struggle with accepting the fact that my girlfriend had been much more sexually experienced than me and on top of that didn't climax most of the time when we had sex.

I don't kow about the other men who've posted thus far in this thread, but I've been cheated on twice in past relationships, so if I were to date a woman who'd been with many more partners than I had in the past I would fear that I may not measure up to her past lovers and that she might be tempted to cheat on me if I didn't satisfy her rather than try to teach me the necessary skills to please her. In addition to this, I would be worried if the woman I was with had experienced a sizeable number of one-night stands and fuck-buddies in the past--despite the fact that it all happened before she knew me--because I wouldn't be able to get over the possibility that she might revert to those old ways and one day choose to cheat on me.

You guys gotta understand this.... Whether one is a man or a woman, being cheated on in a past relationship is a very traumatic experience, and it can be very difficult for a person to get over it. Hell!!! I still have to face the demons of past relationships and past betrayals to this day.

hello insecurities. so you would turn a woman away because she had more sexual experience then you because that means she might cheat on you?....come on.

so in others words whats your saying is "the greater the sexual experience the greater possibility of cheating"? .....oh yah that sounds very logical.

adam · 11-14-2004, 02:58 PM

Mocking people does nothing to heal their own insecurities.

doncalypso · 11-14-2004, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st33lr4t

hello insecurities. so you would turn a woman away because she had more sexual experience then you because that means she might cheat on you?....come on.

so in others words whats your saying is "the greater the sexual experience the greater possibility of cheating"? .....oh yah that sounds very logical.

It is not whether she's had greater sexual experience but whether she's had lots of one-night stand and whether she's had experience cheating on her past partners.

If a woman acquired a lot of sexual experience in the context of committed relationship it wouldn't bother me at all. But if a woman has bedded more than 50 guys by age 22, and 90% of all those experiences were one-night stands and men she slept behind past boyfriends' backs then I wouldn't trust her to be faithful in a relationship with me.

And there's no need to mock me just because you don't agree with my perspective.

CaneBay · 11-15-2004, 08:24 AM

Hey, in the end the two of them seem to like each other and want to keep talking. So let's give them a month and maybe they'll start a new thread on the latest?

Ya know, send them to traditional counseling, then have them back for TFP-style counseling!

11-12-2004, 10:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
Janie Insane Location: Greater Vancouver	My boyfriend's problem with my past The story goes, we hit it off, we got together. Fast forward ~4 months: We have the PAST HISTORY conversation. I'm young, I'm clean, and I don't have a large number of past hookups (6 not including my current man). He asks, and I tell him things like who, when, why. Four out of six are one-night stands. He freaked out completely. Sex is really important to him, and he believes one-night stands to be wrong. After this first conversation, for 4-5 months we continually had arguments about my past, with him making comments like "How could you possibly do something like that?" and overall making me feel like an unworthy whoring slut who cares nothing for the wonders of the loving relationship. We were apart for the summer, and he finally told me my past doesn't bother him anymore. Through this all, I suffered (and am still suffering) a huge downward spiralling libido. This also caused many arguments and sleepless nights. First I orgasmed rarely, then none at all, then I just didn't want to have sex anymore. Every time I didn't orgasm he'd curl up into a corner and cry and ask me why I didn't love him, to which I repeatedly answered that I did, but he continued to ask me questions like that. He was also under the impression that sex in my other long-term relationship was stellar and wholly without problems, to which I also assured him it was not perfect. About a month ago, I admitted that I'd fallen out of love with him. I still love to spend time with him, and I wish things were different. This led to a talk about why he'd had this huge problem with my past to begin with. It turns out one of his exes had cheated on him with his best friend, and he'd also cheated on one of his other exes, though it wasn't intercourse. He confessed to me that not cheating was higher up on his list of morals than no promiscuity. I don't understand why he has such a big problem with me not matching up with his morals when he himself violated his own morals and seems to have come to terms with that fairly quickly. Now I can't stop thinking about this entire chain of events. It's ruining things more, and we're arguing more often. I can't help still feeling depressed and angry about all this, even though he apologized and says he isn't bothered by it anymore. What do I do? Advice would be great, especially if something similar has happened to you. __________________ cheers to the motherland

11-12-2004, 11:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Janie Insane Location: Greater Vancouver	Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I love him (at least I think I do, he really makes me doubt it), but I'm not IN love with him. __________________ cheers to the motherland

11-12-2004, 11:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Janie Insane Location: Greater Vancouver	We haven't been to couple councelling, though we have gone to see a doctor about the lack of sexual activity. The problem is I feel that I do love him, but I'm not in love with him. That romantic aspect of it is almost completely destroyed because of the months of sexual dissatisfaction. We have set a deadline, that is, if things don't seem to be improving by the new year, then we'll end it. What I want is to help things to get better so it doesn't get to that point. I don't know it that's silly or just wishful thinking on my part. __________________ cheers to the motherland

11-12-2004, 11:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kalnaur Psycho Location: Portland, Oregon	My thought, try counseling. If that doesn't work, say good-bye to the guy. And good luck. You're going to need it. __________________ PC: Can you help me out here HK? HK-47: I'm 98% percent sure this miniature organic meatbag wants you to help find his fellow miniature organic meatbags. PC: And the other 2 percent? HK-47: The other 2 percent is that he is just looking for trouble and needs to be blasted, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.

11-13-2004, 07:58 AM	#18 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	So much to comment on here. 1. You two must be young. Late teens I would guess. For this reason alone, I say cut your losses now. Don't string this bad relationship out. 2. He is very insecure and jealous. This may or may not change with age. 3. He has a false view of sexuality--expressed, in part, by his reaction to you not having an orgasm. He needs to be educated, but you're probably not the one to do it. Not at this point anyway. 4. Your view upon sexuality seems to be more realistic and healthy than his. If you are young, as I suspect, it is quite usual for the female partner to be more mentally and emotionally mature than the male-- this is a fact of life. 5. Here's the part we in Western civilization have the hardest time coming to terms with. If you are a romantic you will hate what I am about to say. You say that you love him but you are not "in love" with him. One thing we must learn, to maintain sanity, is that love is not something that happens to you. Instead, love is something you do. Love is a choice you make. Love is action. Yes, there is that first pleasurable feeling of anxious euphoria that accompanies the beginning of a passionate relationship. That is what is commonly called being "in love." Problem is, humans are physiologically incapable of maintaining any emotion for a long period of time. Once the emotion wears off, and it will, you must honestly evaluate the relationship and your partner. Does this guy have the characteristics I require in a partner? Do I like this person? Should I choose to make a commitment to him? The point is, you have a choice to make, and it should be a rational one, based on a logical process. I hope something I've said is helpful. Aladdin steps down from his soapbox, tripping on his beard. __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

11-12-2004, 11:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
CaneBay Upright Location: Near Sacramento, CA	Agree with Lockjaw. It's not going to get better. BUT: I didn't hear you talk about couples counseling. Maybe if you really wanted to be with him, counseling would work. But ti takes two to tango, and it sounds like you're "outta there." Lots of couples break up, and remain friends. You can do this if you don't do or say anything that you are not proud of later. The other side of this is maybe the two of you didn't get to the really wonderful space of where you can be completely honest with each other. Trusting. You know, things turn on the head of a pin. They really do. I practice law, and each case in the complex matters I deal with (3-4 years of heated litigation) always seem to turn on the head of a pin. Relationships are the same, in my experience. If you want to chat more, let me know. I have more to share on this thread. God bless.

11-12-2004, 11:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
CaneBay Upright Location: Near Sacramento, CA	If your heart is not there to try 200%.then it's not. There are a lot of nice guys out there who won't blame you like some right winger for having a sexual past. If I where that guy, I would appreciate your honesty and treasure the current love that you have for him. Hell, I had 5 or so girlfriends by the time I hit college and that didn't lessen my intense feelings for a girlfriend. Love em all, but most of all the now. You girls up in Vancouver shouldn't spend the winter worrying about this stuff ...

11-12-2004, 11:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
CaneBay Upright Location: Near Sacramento, CA	guthmund speaketh the truth.

11-13-2004, 12:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
Rlyss The Pusher Location: Edinburgh	I think you already know the reason why he's so uppity about your past - he wasn't able to control his own actions and he couldn't deal with it so he's trying to control yours. He can't accept that you don't have the same rules as him, and it's double hard since he broke his own rules and hates himself because of it. To be honest I do have a couple of jealousy issues with my partners, and I put that down to the fact that my first love cheated on me and left me for someone else, that AND she was cheating on her partner with me when I first met her. All of that took me a while to figure out, and come to terms with. I went from denial to anger and all those stages, now I've accepted that I shouldn't have encouraged her to cheat, and she shouldn't have done it to me, but the past is the past and I've learned from it and accepted it. But no matter how you look at it your relationship with this guy is over and you're both going to be better off because of it. You'll find someone that is accepting of your past and he'll find someone with his same morals and high standards.

11-13-2004, 07:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
DJLaurieB Upright	Ok, I dont' know how old the original poster is, or if it matters, but here's my advice for what it's worth. I'm 35 and single. I make it a point to NEVER divulge the numbers. No good can ever come of it. It's one thing to talk about past relationships, that's more of what has shaped you as a person rather than the fact that you may have been a dirty whore in college. Which I believe most people go through at some point in their lives. Here's why I think the numbers game is dangerous. Say for the sake of argument that I was sexually active at 15 (I wasn't). And say that I've had a few long relationships, a period of a few "one night stands" and maybe a few 3-6 month relationships here and there. That number easily gets up to 20 or 25 without breaking a sweat. (no pun intended). On paper, that number could make me a dirty whore. Do I spread my legs for everyone who comes down the pike? Not even close. Do I pick and choose who I share that with? Absolutely. But if someone I'm seeing has a way stricter policy about sex, like "only in serious relationships" and his number is closer to, say, 10....... hes' going to feel like I'm "dirty" or that I've been around, when it could be a hell of a lot worse. I find the older I get that men worry less about the past and numbers, and more about the here and now. Past is past, and should stay there. At my age, it's hard to find anyone without some serious skeletons in the closet, and I know just as I wouldn't want to indulge every little thing I've done.............I don't think I want to hear about it from a lover either. Just my $0.02.

11-13-2004, 08:36 AM	#19 (permalink)
st33lr4t Psycho Location: Dallas, Tx	sounds like he is insecure with himself and just trying to control you. your young like you mentioned...and not sure about your feelings with him. i would walk away, it might not be easy but your "relationship" isnt worth the headache it is obviously causing you. i really dont see this getting any better while the both of you are still together. sure he says it doesnt bother him anymore...hes gonna do what he can to hold onto you. ive been in a couple relationships like this. his attitude isnt going to change overnite. just remember this is his problem and not yours.

11-13-2004, 09:26 AM	#20 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Break it off. But you may not want to listen to me, I don't believe "love but not in love" crap. You either love someone or not and it def sounds like you do not love him.

11-13-2004, 11:34 AM	#21 (permalink)
Janie Insane Location: Greater Vancouver	The Boyfriend is here Hey all. I am the boyfriend about this entire posting is about. My girlfriend and I have always been able to talk to each other and be honest with each other about our relationship, hence my posting on here now as she has informed me of its existence. See, the thing here that really sucks is this: I had a problem with her past. I'll admit it, I was a dick, and like so many here have said, I needed to grow up. Well, the truth of the matter is, I did. I'm a rational person and I know I treated her like shit, but everyone here might as well get the other side of the story before giving advice like "cut your losses" and such, as my girlfriend and I have talked a lot on this subject and she came here looking for genuine possibilites as to how to help our relationship. As she stated, we have already set a deadline for "cutting losses", so please, any further posts here need only be about ways to possibly help. I am 23 years old. I had a very insecure childhood due to the fact that I was very short, unathletic, and academically very intelligent to boot (straight A+'s). As such, all the female attention I got in high school was along the lines of flirting with me in order to get my class notes, or to help with homework, and then metaphorically throwing me in the trash after my resources had been tapped. Then in final year I got a girlfriend, whom I didn't really like at first, but she was the only girl to ever have been seriously interested in me so I went for it. I am not proud to admit that I 'cheated' on her a couple times (just kissing) and I was very upset with myself afterwards, especially after I fell in love with her. We were together for 4 years, as I eventually fell in love with her despite not really liking her to begin with. After 3 years, though, she broke up with me because she had said she fell in love with a friend of mine (she never knew I had cheated on her as described above, and I thought everything was fine in our relationship). I talked her into taking me back, and we were together for the last year, and she was very happy and sorry for what she did. Unfortunately what she did caused me to never trust her anymore, so after a year of pain inside me (she never knew) I broke up with her, which crushed her. I came back home from where we were living at the time for the summer and after a couple weeks met someone else and we clicked completely. It was all-consuming. I was able to rationalize "i am on the rebound here, I shouldn't be doing this" but she assured me her feelings were genuine and I believed her. Things were awesome with her for 3 months. Then she cheated on me at a party that I was at with her, with my best friend. I was in the freaking house. I've never felt so completely devastated in my life: not only did my girlfriend do this to me, who I very much cared for and thought she shared those feelings, but my BEST FRIEND betrayed me. Needless to say we are not friends any more. I went back to school at the end of the summer. Enter my current girlfriend. We hit it off really well as well, but I wasn't going to make the same mistake again. I courted her romantically (chocolate covered strawberries, small gifts wrapped up, etc.) and everything was great for quite a while. Then the topic of the past came up. i can not fully explain here how that made me feel. She had had a couple one night stands, and for some reason that really bothered me. I had a past too, but I always had sex in the context of it being a serious relationship: I do not believe in sex for physical pleasure. As my gf stated above, sex is very important to me as a manifestation of a romantic relationship. A couple without sex (IMHO) are just friends, and as such sex is just not something done outside of that context. It's not the be-all-end-all, but sex to me is one of the defining characteristics of a romantic relationship, and I will not have it outside of that context. So, I had a problem. She didn't care about my past (not that I had much of one) but she wasn't even concerned with my infedility in the past, and for that I love her all the more. The problem here lied solely with me being a dick, thinking that I should be her 'only', and such. The problem that manifested later regarding her not orgasming and me curling up and crying was all tied into this same problem: i couldn't handle the thought of her past. And the reason for this was because of MY past. In my head, if she was capable of one night stands, then for some reason I thought it a logical conclusion that she would cheat on me, because no woman has ever wanted me in my life, and because if I was capable fo cheating, she was too. This is SO unfair to her it's not even funny, I know, but there it was. To compound the problem, my girlfriend has never known and will never be able to understand my high-school experiences. I was lucky enough to be a late-bloomer, and eventually after high school grew up to six feet, strong, muscular, and athletic. Anyway, to cut this post down, let's cut to the chase. I feel HORRIBLE about how I treated her, but I got over it. I AM OVER IT. i love her, and am so sorry I made such a big deal about her past. It seriously doesn't bother me any more. We had a good talk about a week ago about our relationship, and it was so good and meaningful that from that point up until yesterday everything was as it should be in our relationship: we were happy with each other, we enjoyed each other's company for the whole day for days, we had great sex on numerous occasions. But then we got in a bit of an argument last night and when that happens she admits that all this feeling of ill will towards me comes flooding up because of the way I handled the whole past thing. So now here it is (And don't think this is behind her back... she's sitting right beside me as I type this). She says she still wants to try, and wants to be with me. i have no problems with her past or anything right now; i'm actually quite upset because everything was going so well until yesterday. But the problem, according to her (we had a good talk this morning just a few minutes prior to me starting this post) is that she is having trouble dealing with the problem I HAD with her past. She doesn;t understand why it happened in the first place, and she seems convinced that we can solve our problems if she can just be brought to understand why I behaved as I did, although i don't have a problem with it any more. Please help. We need not posts saying "cut your losses and move on": we're not stupid, and we've already decided upon that course if it comes to it. But we are both mature enough and care enough about each other to give ourselves a chance together because when crap like this ISN'T happening, we really are very happy together. So, as I said, please help. Thank you. Rich __________________ cheers to the motherland

11-13-2004, 11:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
st33lr4t Psycho Location: Dallas, Tx	insecurities kill. i dont blame her one bit for the way she is feeling. of course she not convinced it doesnt bother you anymore. you didnt even convince me!...you said this "i have no problems with her past or anything right now"...and thats just how its going to be..."right now" things are good because they have to be or she will walk. man ive been in the same situation. i was insecure about myself which lead me to trying to control my woman. how many times did i say to her and even myself "im cool now...its ok" ....yet it never was. all i can say is time will tell. ...your pretty much left with proving yourself through your actions and not your words that your insecurities arent an issue anymore....that is if she is willing to let you.

11-13-2004, 12:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	Looks like you guys are doing the right thing talking about it, and being open with one another. Carry on doing that and things might work out fine. Try dating one another again, start the relationship afresh as if you are both strangers, and see what happens differently. I don't know, it looks like you've worked through the worst of it. As someone else mentioned, the fact that she says she's not 'IN' love with he sounds important. Loving, but not being IN love doesn't make sense. Are you friends or lovers? Do either of you consider getting into other relationships? Are you holding onto one another because there isn't anything else out there right now? These might be the hardest questions of all to even think about, let alone answer truthfully (even if you only answer to yourself)

11-13-2004, 12:48 PM	#25 (permalink)
Rich Upright	Well first off I feel I need to reply to st33lr4t's comments... You didn't listen to a thing I said. i admit to being an idiot. I don't blame her for mfeeling the way she does right now either, and i know I am to blame. As for your comment about "not being convinced", that's not my problem. We came to this forum for help, not to hear whether or not you believe my reasons for coming on here seeking help. Just keep in mind this that I didn;t mention: my acceptance of her past isn't a 'new development': I've accepted it for quite some time now. The problem now, at present, is that she has a problem with my having HAD a problem in the first place. We have talked, and she has told me that she doesn't hold it against me that I had a problem, she just wants to know WHY I DID, the reasoning being that if she doesn;t understand, she will probably always doubt, and thus she wants to understand. As for dating anew, we've done that. And it's helped very much. I don't know if I'm really conveying our problem here very well. Everyone here seems to think that we're both miserable all the time. We're not. We're very happy with each other most of the time: the problem is that whenever we get in an argument, about ANY topic, she starts thinking about the way I acted in the past (regarding her past) and then she starts questioning the whole thing again because she still doesn't UNDERSTAND why i acted that way, despite the fact that when things are going well, everything is great. like i said previously, we're not stupid. We're looking for help. If we both thought this relationship was 100% unsalvageable, we'd ditch it. For Lockjaw's reply, yes, I do mean JUST for physical pleasure. Sex is not something I will do for physical pleasure alone: I need the spiritual connection as well, of being with someone I know and care for (not someone I just met at the bar). And as for Lockjaw's suggestion about sex, it's really not relevant. Sex is not the issue here, at all. I hope I've helped clarify things a touch Anyway, thanks all for replying. Rich

11-13-2004, 01:33 PM	#26 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	You keep saying WE came to this forum for help. You mean SHE came here for help. It seems to me like you are still trying to control her, by not even letting her get her own advice. "she will probably always doubt, and thus she wants to understand." And she should, problems come and go, but the causes stay unless you do something about them. IF you can do something about them. Peace.

11-13-2004, 02:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
Rich Upright	?? I'm at a loss.... She came to me to tell me about this posting. I'm trying to control her by not letting her get her own advice? I didn't even know this board existed until she came to ME and told me of it, and opened it for me, and logged onto her own account so I could view it, and post a reply (hence my first posting is under her name). Every post I've written on here, except for this one, was with her sitting right beside me, she's read what I've said, and agreed with what I've said. So, I say again, I'm at a loss. I really don't see how I'm trying to control her when she was the one who came to me without any prompting on my part. I'm sorry I've posted on here at all now. I came here in good spirits hoping someone would help us out, and I've been consistently attacked for it. I'm sorry you seem to have such ill feelings towards me. I guess I deserve it. Rich

11-13-2004, 08:02 PM	#29 (permalink)
Rich Upright	Alright... I feel the need to reply again and apologize if it seemed I was taking things too personally. It is another bad habit of mine I guess. It's just that Zeraph's post seemed to me to imply that Janie came on here looking for help and then I found out about it and m now trying to 'control' the situation, which is not the case. Janie told me about this place and thought it was a good idea to see what other people thought, and I agreed. We are in this together, for the time being (to my relief), and I sincerely hope we can find some useful information here or elsewhere that will help us out. Thanks again, everyone... this seems like a good place to be. Rich

11-13-2004, 08:50 PM	#30 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Try to stay friends, if you still like being around him. -edited for harsh wording-

11-13-2004, 10:01 PM	#31 (permalink)
Janie Insane Location: Greater Vancouver	I have my answers now. To those of you who replied, thank you; it's much appreciated. I don't think I need any more replies though. Perhaps I should have broken it off when the problem first surfaced months and months ago. However, I have put too much of my time and trouble into this, and my opinion dictates that I cannot just cut my losses at a moment's notice like that. I will stick by the deadline, see what can and cannot be done in this relationship and decide for myself. I don't feel I received the kind of advice I was looking for, but that is mostly my fault for making the question unclear. Again, thank you to those who offered their advice and views on the subject. __________________ cheers to the motherland

11-14-2004, 10:35 AM	#35 (permalink)
CaneBay Upright Location: Near Sacramento, CA	Advice? Change your user code and screen name if you want any privacy on TFP. Rich knows who you are now. I think he's a controlling person and you should have some private space. And NOT being in love with him? That's a sure sign you're hegging your bets and expecting to leave. Get out of there, and chaulk it up as a learning experience. In terms of TFP, it's a great cyber space for discussion and learning. If you leave your screen name the same, it means that you and Rich are using TFP as a communication channel. That could be a good thing ... Read some erotica together with him and see what he likes, you like. Maybe sex will get better? (Assuming you want to work on things ...) Good luck!

11-14-2004, 12:26 PM	#36 (permalink)
doncalypso TFP Mad Scientist Location: Philadelphia, PA	Hey everyone, I can understand all of you guys' perspectives, but I think too many of you are too quick to write Rich off as some mentally insecure control-freak and aren't willing to give the guy a chance to redeem himself (or something to that effect). Let's face it, it's not easy for a guy to have to deal with the ghost of betrayal in a past relationship. Not that I agree with society's double-standards when it comes to male and female sexuality, but I too would struggle with accepting the fact that my girlfriend had been much more sexually experienced than me and on top of that didn't climax most of the time when we had sex. I don't kow about the other men who've posted thus far in this thread, but I've been cheated on twice in past relationships, so if I were to date a woman who'd been with many more partners than I had in the past I would fear that I may not measure up to her past lovers and that she might be tempted to cheat on me if I didn't satisfy her rather than try to teach me the necessary skills to please her. In addition to this, I would be worried if the woman I was with had experienced a sizeable number of one-night stands and fuck-buddies in the past--despite the fact that it all happened before she knew me--because I wouldn't be able to get over the possibility that she might revert to those old ways and one day choose to cheat on me. You guys gotta understand this.... Whether one is a man or a woman, being cheated on in a past relationship is a very traumatic experience, and it can be very difficult for a person to get over it. Hell!!! I still have to face the demons of past relationships and past betrayals to this day. __________________ Doncalypso... the one and only Haitian Sensation

11-14-2004, 02:58 PM	#38 (permalink)
adam Insane	Mocking people does nothing to heal their own insecurities.

11-15-2004, 08:24 AM	#40 (permalink)
CaneBay Upright Location: Near Sacramento, CA	Hey, in the end the two of them seem to like each other and want to keep talking. So let's give them a month and maybe they'll start a new thread on the latest? Ya know, send them to traditional counseling, then have them back for TFP-style counseling!