Skettios

I'd like to think that there are a lot of you out there with the same problem I have. I'm extremely lonely. It's not that I don't have any friends, I have lots. People seem to really enjoy me, they like my opinions, my optimism, and my enduring good nature. Somehow though, I still end up lonely at the end of the night. It's not that I don't know any girls, I know tons of them. For some reason, none of the people I'm into ever seem to be really into me.

There are probably a lot of reasons for this.

1. I'm pretty fat, and I know girls aren't into this at all.
2. I'm pretty insecure, and although I don't have any problem making friends, I do have trouble impressing girl's and keeping girlfriends.
3. I'd really like to meet someone who is as into me, as I am into them, but unfortunately this seems to be a rarity.

I'm at the point now where I don't know what to do with myself. I have a lot of friends, but I haven't had a girl who was interested in me in a really long time. Every girl I get close to, I always seem to be on the friends list. Worse than that, I seem to fall in love really easily, and get really disappointed when that girl ends up with another dude.

I'm at the point now where I would do anything I could to just interrupt the cycle. I've tried everything, losing weight, hanging out with different people... no matter what I feel like I've already lost, it doesn't matter how hard I try.

I'm not sure what I expect from this post. I'd prefer other lonely people like me. I also would appreciate those of you who have been in my position and found your way out of it.

I'm on the verge of giving up hope. I feel like no matter what I do, I'll always be fat (don't believe me? I've worked out at the same gym 4 times a week, I lost 20 pounds, and the minute I slipped, it all came back, and it's not like I eat fast food or even over eat. Scientifically, I know no one believes me, but someday I'll be vindicated). No matter how hard I try, fundamentally I'll always be unlovable. Feels like the only thing left to do is accept my fate.

The worst part is that lately, I've completely given up hope, but at the same time, I've met this girl who is as wonderful as anyone can be. She's smart, liberal, and not completely without her own problems, in love with me, but only as a friend. On one hand I don't feel like I can let her go, but on the other, I feel like I've already lost. I want to get rid of her, and be free in my independence, but at the same time, I really wish it could work somehow. I'm lost, but I can't give up hope, I'm a goner, and my own fatalism recognizes that, but I can't seem to give in.

I'm completely at a loss as to what to do. I guess I'm writing this in the hopes that there are others like me out there. I feel for you guys, and maybe with luck we can support each other.

Please share your stories, and maybe we can all take some relief in the fact that we aren't the only ones, so confused.

No offense to the rest of you, but it would be nice to keep this thread sympathy only. If you've got the whole 'love' thing figured out, that's great, but it's really not going to help anyone in this thread.

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Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

gondath

I feel your pain. I've been in the friends list of every girl I liked, and sometimes not even that far. I must exude something that makes girls turn away and choose someone else.

Don't feel bad about being fat. I'm pretty thin, and it doesnt do anything for me. Attitude is everything. I try to be myself, but I guess it's not good enough to score girls. I wouldn't say I'm ugly either but average.

I've learned that maybe dating isn't so important. I tended not to date early on and maybe I missed developing girl achieving techniques along the way. Reagrdless, I can go on most of the time and life my life the way I have been because I have come to realize it does no good to dwell too long on what I don't have.

When I feel the hurt, I focus on the negative aspects of the girls I want. Putting them on pedestals has typically made me feel like a loser when they are just regular people. It may sound stupid, but it lessens the effect for me at least.

I suggest finding an approach. Maybe you just haven't found the right method yet. Better still, maybe it's circumstance that worked against you. Otherwise, maybe your life would be better single. An answer will come to you eventually.

maleficent

I'm going to sound like your mother, or an afterschool special or something however... Some unsolicted advice:

Beauty/handsomeness comes from within. A great personality shows through. Consider this scenario:
You walk into a bar, and there are two women/girls the first woman is gorgeous, she makes some of the supermodels look ugly, but she's not looking very happy. Shes frowning, any person who approacher her she frowns. The second woman, is plainer, but she's smiling, she's laughing, anyone who approaches her, she's very open. Which woman do you want to talk to?

You are only a loser if you think you are a loser. I am not saying be arrogant, cause women don't like that so much, but have some confidence in yourself. Everyone has at least five good things about themselves, I'd challenge you to find at least 10 - oh hell, make ya work find 20. They are there. If you beleive you are worth spending time with, then people will spend time with you.

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cj22009

I agree with male on this one yall have to be out going and have confidence about your selevs I am 6'2 270lbs I don't have a problem talking to girls or dancing with them or whatever its all in how you project your self girls look for self confindence some might be in it for looks but most are in it for attitude

jakewesier

I certainly know how you feel brother. I myself haven't had a GF in what... (counts on fingers) a long time, 10 years just about. And I have similar issues, overweight being what I think holds me back the most.

I have no lack of confidence in my own abilities in life, however being heavy gives you a self defeatist look on things. Instantly thinking no woman would ever want to be with you in 'that way' and so it makes it hard to take the leap to go for it. Plus, couple that with a general fear of rejection and it hurts our outlook on the opposit sex.

I myself and extremely outgoing. Everyone I have known or has gotten to know me has enjoyed my company (unless they've been lying and have taken me on as a friend just so they can mock me behind my back) and I just basically haven't had many lady friends. Basically, and I know the trouble is going to the fact that while being a social person, I don't like going to bars (i find them contrived and pathetic meat markets) unless it's with the boys for a game and a brew. I don't like to dance at all, and I work evenings meaning I couldn't get out much even if I wanted to. So I guess that wouldn't help.

I to have tried lossing weight, atkins, the gym 4 days a week and it works at the beginning but WHAM i let it slide and it's gone. I actually enjoy lifting or tredmilling but there's got to be someone for me to go and do it with or I just say f'it all i'm fat and that's it. Not like I'm not comfortable with myself, because I am. But the problem is that the ladies aren't comfortable with it. And so be it.

I've only resently been missing that extra person in my life, it's probably only a phase though because I've been by myself like this all my life and don't recall what it is like to have someone calling you besides your parents that isn't asking for your money/sell you magazine'/voters poll or to come into work a half hour early.

~holy vent batman~

ibis

I believe this attitude is one of the sources of your problem. It is probally a self fulfinning prophesy (sp?).

You should pick yourself up a copy of "The 7 habits of highly effective people", by Stephen R. Covey. I've just started reading it myself. I think part one, "Paradidms and Principles" may be of particular interest to you.

nowthen

a relationship shouldnt define you, it should only be part of your life. if you have the attitude that, "oh if only i could meet someone then i would be happy / confident / lovable / etc / etc /", then you are really not giving yourself a lot of credit.

be comfortable in your own skin, realise that you are a unique individual with just as many strengths (and weaknesses) as everyone else.

only from this position of internal self confidence can you move on to develop a solid relationship with somebody, as equal partners.

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"People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them."

George Bernard Shaw

timalkin

This may sound a little harsh, but somebody's got to say it. Would you honestly be attracted to a girl who is "overweight?" Let's just call a spade a spade and say "fat." Sure, you may say that you don't have a problem with a girl being fat, but we all know better. I know there are a few girls out there who would be attracted to a fat dude, but they are few and far between, and I've noticed that they aren't exactly slim and fit themselves.

There is really no reason to be fat. What are you doing in your spare time? You don't have a girlfriend to waste time with, so you should be hitting the gym or running or doing something athletic. Saying that you'll always be fat is just bullshit. If you spent a few months in a concentration camp I seriously doubt you'd be fat. Don't make excuses. Lose the weight and watch what you eat.

I've never had much luck with women myself. I'm very physically fit, at least average in looks, I'm well-educated, and I'm on a career path that will lead to much success and money. My only girlfriend of 4.5 years just broke up with me because her "career is more important" than I am. It sucks, but fuck it. I was honestly going to marry this girl within the next year, but shit changed in an instant. I've learned that you can't define yourself or your happiness by a relationship with another person.

I know I'll find it very hard to be in another relationship in the future, despite everything I have going for me. I'm pretty quiet and introverted, and I don't take the "hit on anything with a vagina and a decent face" approach to dating. I asked a few girls out before my girlfriend, and I got shot down real bad. As a result, I've resigned myself to waiting until a girl directly asks me out on a date. The odds are definitely against me in this respect, but I'm OK with it. I'm extremely lonely too, but you can't always get what you want. You just have to live with it.

oblar

i just felt like answering this... personally, I would go and talk to generally the one frowning (doens't matter about her beauty). I will try for a bit to cheer her up, get her to smile. Then once she smiles, I generally leave.

I have an idea in my mind that if a girl is smiling and laughing, then she doesn't need someone to help her have a good time, so I just leave her alone. Doesn't help me get a girlfriend all the time, but I am rarely out for that. I see beautiful girls often, and may talk to them a decent amount, but I really enjoy just finding a random person, getting them to smile, then leaving knowing that I will probably never see them again.

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"All that we can do is just survive.
.All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive." - Rush

pig

Having been there before, I would suggest the following:

1. You have to realize that most likely, you're not going to meet a girl that's going to "save you." I would say never, but I never say never. I'm like James Bond. Just as well, you're probably not going to meet a girl that's going to make you happy until you pop out of this rut. Chances are, the only girls you'll attract when you're feeling really mopey and self-defeatist are girls that are also having massive insecurity issues. Maybe this is what you need - I guess that's up to you.

2. I would suggest not only resuming an exercise / healthy diet routine to help boost your self-esteem, but also that you think about some other things that you enjoy doing. The exercise/diet thing because of the following: even if you feel like it'll never work, I think you'll find that you'll feel better if you know that you're doing what you can to control your self image and your self esteem.

I know that when I was younger, I felt a lot like you described. I got in shape, and got really involved in playing soccer and playing music and reading and lot of other things, and when you get involved in something, whatever it is - you tend to draw people to you, because you're interesting, and you've got something to offer. It brings confidence and an attitude of liking yourself. People tend to respect people who respect themselves, and like people who like themselves. Period. I think if you do things only to attract other people, you tend to come across as shallow. Really let yourself enjoy your life, and I think you might be surprised at the effect it has on others.

3. As far the situation with this particular girl - tough to say. I've definately been in the so-called "Friend Zone" before, and sometimes that's just the way it goes. That's not to say that you can't jump out of it, but it usually takes just the right moment and set of circumstances. I've personally found that if you approach everyone, girls guys whatever, with the intention of being friends and really getting to know them, that whatever it is that makes physical chemistry tick takes over the rest.

Another tip : Give yourself a break. Do what you can to become more like the person you think you want to be, but remember that none of us is perfect. Remember Stewart Smiley " I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog gone it, people like me..."

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

raeanna74

The weight thing - well Hubby wasn't skinny when I met him nor is he now. I loved him for his sweet thoughtfulness, his humor, and his confidence. He was fun to be with. If a girl isn't willing to look past appearances then you don't want her anyway. For those that will look though appearances you can try to be yourself, have fun, not be afraid of what people think about you (i.e. confident) and be thoughtful and kind. It will make you stand out quickly. I wish you good luck in finding your dream woman.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Redgirl

I'm with you, Raeanna ^^^^^
My husband wasn't (and isn't) skinny, athletic and buff or anything like that. He got my attention through his wit, intelligence, personality AND SELF CONFIDENCE. So please have some hope, all of you thinking you're doomed! There are women like us out there who are focused on more important things than the outside package. Have a little confidence, babe!

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to read in your thread! Feel free to ignore me of course.

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Thought for the day: Men are like fine wine. They start out as grapes, and it's up to the women to stomp the crap out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.

maleficent

I'm glad you ladies said it as well, I was beginning to think I was alone in that. Women are less visual then men are. Looks matter a lot less.

Confidence is what gets the girls/women. Sense of humor. Paying attention to her and giving her what she wants.

There's an old expression, Fake it til you make it, fake the confidence til you really believe it. There are lots of good qualities to you, start naming them. Your weight, guarentee most women won't even notice.

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pig

The weight might not matter to the more enlightened ladies of the TFP, but every one of these posts I've seen from the guys on this forum that center on this issue or something like it mentions that the poster knows he's overweight. It might not be important to some of the females, but I definately think that it can help with building self confidence. Maybe it's narcisistic, mabye it's superficial - I think it's just natural. It also gives a concrete goal and visual results. I know it's worked for a lot of people I've known...I don't think people need to try to live up to some crazy expectations of physical perfection, but almost everyone feels better about themselves when they are exercising - whether they actually look more tone or not.

As y'all have said, it all comes down to confidence in who you are, and also (usually) in the confidence to be nice and outgoing to others. Best of luck.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Anomaly_

Bad example. A guy would easily prefer the banal, gorgeous woman over the energetic, average looking one. This is just one of the many asymmetries in attraction of the genders. The "wounded deer" is not a turn-off at all for men, in fact, it is quite an oppurtunity. On the other hand, a guy can be physically fit, intelligent, caring, and economically prosperous but have no success with women (just like the guy who is depressed, poor, overweight, etc.). There is no female equivalent to this successful man either, because even the affable but average woman in the bar is still very attractive (just not so much relative to the sour gorgeous woman).

That being said, your weight is only the tip of the iceberg, Skettios. I'm in your situation sans the fat, but also sans the friends. I've never believed that I'm destined to be unlovable because fate is absolute BS; however, I really wonder if there's some inherently wrong with me on a physiological level that causes me to be this way (and I don't mean simply depression). It is certainly discouraging that you can be firing on all cylinders outside of relationships and not have this translate to eventual success in relationships.

Jay Francis

It really takes a long time to lose weight, but it is worth the commitment to do so. First impressions have become so important in this world. Congratulations on your commitment to the gym. I, too, worked out for many years without seeing a discernible weight loss, and then realized that my problem was my sweet tooth and portion control (my hobby is cooking). You might try making your meals with the Zone Perfect dinners to see if that helps. Each is about 400 calories. I usually buy mine at Super Target. Good luck.

PoweredByPorn

Weight may be part of it, but isn't everything. I'm in pretty good shape, but am otherwise in the same rut you are. I know exactly how you're feeling.

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Do you want me to sit in a corner and rust of just fall apart where I'm standing?

DelayedReaction

Allrighty then, here we go...

I was in a similar situation as you, and I realised I had to do something about it. You what that something was? An attitude change. The only person who can call you a loser is yourself; it sounds corny but it's true. So get off your cynic trip and do stuff that makes you happy.

If you're not happy by yourself, you're sure as hell not going to be happy with somebody else. A girlfriend isn't going to save you or change your perspective on life. You have to do that for yourself.

So get off your ass and occupy yourself. Get involved in clubs, hobbies, and friends. If you're at home on a Friday night, call up some friends and hit up a movie. Find some meat lying around and barbecue it up with people you know. Join clubs. Find a hobby you like and learn the skill (I'm learning lockpicking right now).

Every relationship I've had was the result of things working together at the right time. You can't spend your life waiting for those moments, because (at least for me) they are few and far between. Instead you should do stuff that boosts your confidence, and makes you happy.

So you're fat. Big deal; so am I. If it's enough of a problem to worry about, it's enough of a problem to fix. Hit up the gym, change your diet (switch to diet soda, it's amazingly effective), and go with friends so that it becomes routine.

Involve yourself in new things. I've discovered Habitat for Humanity, which has been incredibly fun and allowed me to meet a lot of interesting people. I also do things with my engineering society, and am involved in a gaming club. All of those things have become new avenues to expand myself, and gain friendships.

Nothing's gonna happen unless you get up and do it for yourself.

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If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

wilbjammin

The second that I stopped caring, stopped wanting for anything, was the second that I got more than I could have ever wanted.

My original thought when reading this was my general feelings of alienation towards almost all people, and how if I were to write a post similar to this it would have been in a different category.

We are brainwashed to think that love is all there is in life that gives it meaning. And then we find when we start to fall in love just how empty it can be. It is easy to find the emptiness in ourselves, society, relationships and to try to fill those gaps with rationalizations, defeatism, escapism, etc...

You said that you fall in love easily - that tells me that you're really reaching inside. But instead of reaching, start by grounding yourself. Get a handle on what really matters, embrace it, and once you have something of your own you will bring something to a relationship other than baggage and neediness.

I had my insecurity issues in high school leading into the beginning of college (anyone can be insecure for any reason... in fact, nothing has to be wrong). I started feeling better once I really started defining my values for myself. For me, focusing on creativity, music, art, writing, and the world around me helped give me perspective and make my life intimately my own. After that, desperation no longer haunted me at all. I didn't feel the weight of loneliness; solitude became comforting.

For change to happen, the only thing you can do is change yourself. You claim that everything is unchangeable may be the biggest hindrance to this. Nothing will happen overnight, and that maybe the hardest part of this kind of internal battle. There is not one way to approach this, but maybe this will be some help.

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Innominate.

ibis

I agree with those saying a girlfriend won't save you.

John Eldredge says in his book, "Wild at Heart":

MSD

I used to be too shy. Now I'm less shy, but just don't put enough effort into it. I end up as "just friends" on the rare occasion that I do go after someone. Women say that being yourself is the right way to go, but they just want to be friends with the real me since I'm such a nice guy to hang out with.

Part of the issue is my size. Just standing, I fill the average doorframe heightwise, and almost fill it shoulder-to-shoulder. I'm too intimidating to approach, and if I approach anyone who doesn't know me, they get defensive and afraid. Once I get to know someone, it's too late.

Skettios

I want to thank a lot of you that posted. It's good to see that I'm not alone in all of this.

I also wanted to clarify something. I think from reading my post that a lot of people see me as the type of guy that just sits back and waits for good stuff to come to him. The truth of the matter is that I'm really active, I have a wonderful social life, a decent job, and am really active volunteering for the local Youth Development Corporation. Through them, I've got a wonderful mentee to hang out with whenever I want, in addition to my other friends, and I really like him.

I'm not dying for a girlfriend, my problem is, I get really close to these girls, and don't ever feel like I'm a qualified candidate to be with them. That makes me take a critical eye against myself, and all of a sudden, I realize everything that feels wrong with me, and end up floored. I'm not upset with who I am, outside of the company of other people, I feel wonderful. Still, my problem is that although I get to do a lot of stuff, and meet a ton of amazing people, in the end I still feel left out. Maybe psychologically, I just have too much baggage, I grew up a fat ADD kid. I don't know what the problem is, I just know that I would do anything to change it.

As I said before, I don't expect an answer from this thread, I just want to know that I'm not alone in this, and my heartfelt thanks to those of you who have posted and let me though that I'm not.

I'll address some individual posts below...

MrSelfDestruct, I know what you mean, when I find the answer to getting over that hurdle, I'll PM you immediately.

Wilbjammin, it sounds absurd, but the only thing that has really been comforting me lately is the fact that I understand that I am not a unique or beautiful snowflake. It sounds like backwards thinking, but I really do believe that there is some wisdom in that.

DelayedReaction, Thanks for the support, you'll see that my above post agrees with you. I don't think I'm a loser, but I also don't feel like a winner... it's a tough call.

PoweredbyPorn, welcome to the club.

Jay Francis, suggestion noted, and congratulations.

Anamoly_, I think your reply is probably one of the most thoughtful on here. I know that intangible quality you're talking about, and almost feel like I must subconciously broadcast it.

Redgirl and Raenna, if the world were populated with the type of woman that exists on the TFP, the tilted Sexuality board would be EMPTY. Thanks for stopping in though.

timalkin, I don't want to get into an argument about weight on here, but you have to realize that you can be extremely motivated to lose weight, and still not get anywhere. No one ever wants to be fat, and a lot of people try to lose weight and fail. That doesn't mean I'm not going to try, but it does mean, I'm going to wonder when I feel like I'm trying my damnedest and nothing is happening. Anyway welcome to the club.

Jakeweiser, thank you for sharing your story with us. That was exactly the sort of post I was hoping for when I started this thread. I hope things work out for you.

Makeficent, no you don't sound like my mom, but understand that nothing you're saying is really new to me. The thing is, I don't ever feel like a loser until I start thinking about relationships, and then I feel like a toad. I get a lot of validation from friends and family, people will tell me how much they enjoy talking to me, or spending time with me, that's what makes this so difficult. Anyway thanks for your input.

gondath, it's nice to see that my problem isn't just related to my side of the fat issue. I too think dating is overrated, but at the same time I don't know. I don't usually have fun on dates, I feel like I get pigeonholed into trying to hard to be entertaining. I'd much rather just be friends with a girl, and then make a transition into dating, but apparently this doesn't work. Anyway thanks for sharing.

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Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Slauncha Man

As per the losing weight: this year for wrestling I lost 35 pounds to go from 205 to 170. I ate three meals a day still, and worked out like crazy. What you need to do is simple: don't snack between meals. That's the single biggest factor, at least from where I'm standing, in losing weight. You can eat fine, but still snack, and never lose any weight. When you're hungry and it's not mealtime, drink water.

If this doesn't work out, change your three big meals a day to five smaller ones.

Wake up an hour earlier than usual. Eat a bowl of cereal with a glass of orange juice. Go for a 30-minute jog. Come home and shower, then eat a few scrambled eggs and some sausage or hash browns. Have a medium-size lunch. Come home from work, school, or whatever and eat a small dinner. Have a workout. Eat a high-protein snack, such as meat sticks. Go to bed.

The above routine, especially when combined with weightlifting, is great for thinning out. But I'm no diet expert; mileage may vary.

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-Slauncha

BooRadley

One of the best posts to come to the TFProject Sexuality forum.

I have been in a situation very similar to yours. I may still be, as I don't have the ability to see the 'light at the end of the tunnel' so to speak. I do believe I am somewhat better.

Heres some observations.

One : You will stop caring about these things and go on with your life. Of course, in such, you will find that you aren't getting what you want because of apathy.

Two : You will start caring more about these things ( lack of a girlfriend) as a reaction to your earlier apathy, and change.
You might get a girlfriend, and you will be happy for a while. But if you lose her, or you never get a girlfriend, you are likely to switch back to your apathy state.

Neither of these is "the right thing to do"... they are just my experiences with my self esteem in regards to women. You will find a mean in your life of aloofness and seriousness, of motivation and apathy. Then things will fall into place.

Will it be immediate? No.
Can the 'magical mean' go away or be changed once you've found it ? Absolutely.
Will you be happy? Maybe. You have to create happiness for yourself no matter what your situation is. Noone is going to hand it to you, or send it as an email attachment.

I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions or want additional details.

Jizz-Fritter

I'm in the same boat. Most of the girls I ever approached said, "Let's just be friends," and then starts dating/fucking some jackass.

Make sure that when you approach women, do don't give the impression that you need her. If you treat women like dirt, they will stick to you like mud.

Happiness is a life choice.

Don't be surprised if women start knocking down your door ten years from now, because you have a successful career. Again, you don't need those women, so they are going to "change your mind." He's successful, he's got his shit together, I want to fuck him now.

Make sure you don't become a cuddle bitch to those girls you want, but they want to be friends only. Consult the ladder theory.

Asshole -- 99.999% of men. Note to women: I know they are. Note to men: I know you aren't really, and that it's just an act to get women. Essentially it is a man who acts like a man.

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"Principle is okay up to a certain point, but principle doesn't do any good if you lose." Dick Cheney

riptide4070

First off... thank you so much for this thread Skettios! I had a philosophical moment last night and almost posted a thread for it. "Is there a woman out there, like me, who feels insecure and wants to be loved? Does she feel as inadequate as I do? Is there any chance of me meeting her?"

I've been lonely for a while. Some of the people who answered your thread said that love should not be seen as something to save someone and that it does not save you. I disagree.

I've been happiest in my life only when I was in love. I make friends and become close to women through friendship. After a while of trying to keep my feelings secret (I don't say anything but it may be easy for others to tell) the friendship turns into love.

My advice to you...Never Give Up Hope!

I have an athletic body with a likable personality, but I'm not an asshole. Thats why women aren't banging down my door. Be yourself, be patient, and you will get what you need.

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"the greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was making the world believe he didn't exist" -Kevin Spacey 'The Usual Suspects'

Nitrox

Just my 2 cents. Don't underestimatew physical attraction. Unless you have the luxury of being around someone for a considerable amount of time in which they can get to know you, the first thing that is going to be noticeable is how you appear (ie., body type, clothes, personal grooming, etc.)

I myself was overweight for years (6'1", 225 lbs and not in good shape). I couldn't get a girl friend for the life of me. Because of how I looked, it made me fel insecure, so the vicious cycle began.

I decided to get in shape and do something about, so I dieted (if you can call it dieting, I cut out all candy, cake, pie, effectively I started eating only fruits, vegetables, meats, no butter, etc.) and began exercising (1 to 2 hours a day).

I dropped down to 175 pounds and built a relatively hard body.

You wouldn't believe the change in women after that. Now all of a sudden I was something worth approaching.

Women can be just like men when eyeing the opposite sex.

maleficent

I beg to differ with you Nitrox, you may be getting the babes now, but it's not because you look better, it's because you feel better about yourself. Confidence is what attracts women, not hard bodies.

Hard bodies are a dime a dozen and most of them aren't worth the oxygen, women, at least grown up women, like peronalities, confidence, secure men.

If you feel bad about yourself and how you look, it shows thru in your personality, if you feel good about yourself, it shows thru in your personality, what you look like.. eh.. it's all window dressing. Give me a smile, eyes, easy laugh, confidence. Keep the sixpack abs....

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Nitrox

Maleficent, you misconstrued my post. I merely meant that before I let myself feel unconfident because of how I looked (this, however, didn't stop me from interacting with the fairer sex). I meant that once I decided to fundamentally alter my exterior, those interactions I had with women changed at a base level. Was it because I was more confident? Unquestionably. However, there was also a completely different slant coming from these women now. And I mean women I knew before when I was heavier and out of shape. Hell, I had even dated a few of them (a couple of them quite seriously).

impulse03

As most people above have said, Confidence is the key man.

I know your situation...I'm a fairly skinny guy, I'd say average in looks, but all through highschool I always had trouble becoming close friends with girls. I was always afraid of what their opinons of me were, and was always trying to impress them in some of the stupidest ways possible ( I didnt realize this till i looked back on it).

However, now I have completely changed. I have an amazing girl friend now and we are in an amazing relationship. I'm still the same skinny guy that I was in highschool (I gained a little muscle mass from going to the gym, but its nothing all that noticable), but all my old friends and even classmates that I see tell me that I seem so much different. That difference stems from my outlook on life. I stopped caring about what other people think of me. Forget other people's opinions and do not let them dictate your outlook and life. You need to be yourself.

This is gonna sound stupid, but just tell yourself, I'm damn goodlooking, I'm confident, I can do that...etc. If you can stop caring about what other people think of you and just be yourself, you will see a change. Trust me, and trust all of us TFP members who tell you confidence is key, because it really is.

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BLUE HENS!

Skettios

I agree.

I think part of my problem is that my confidence in a social situation, and even in flirting with girls, is not the same as my confidence in the bedroom or even in closing the deal.

I can handle myself up until that point, but when I get to the point of no return, I start to have a lot of self doubt, and girls pick up on that. Sometimes alcohol helps, but I really want to get away from that. I need to be able to do this shit on my own. I guess I just have a lot higher expectations in life than where I'm at right now.

I don't know. This whole subject is like the most confusing thing I've ever had to deal with in my life. At one time I could care less, but 30 minutes later I feel totally obsessed with the subject. Nothing has ever really fucked with me before like this.

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Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Dragonlich

Feh, at least you get out once in a while. I don't like going out, rarely meet girls in anything like a social setting, and wouldn't even know where to start with a conversation... How do you actually go from general chit-chat to More Than That?

I just don't understand the whole Love thing. I've never been in love, y'see...

I feel I'm missing out on something (sex), but feel I could do without other aspects of relationships.

(And FYI, I don't have that many friends either. I tend to lose my interest in people after a while, and we grow apart again. I could probably be described as a loner.)

Skettios

My loser status has been proven indefinitely.

I spent the whole weekend with this girl that I'm really into. Spent the night having a party at her house Saturday. Met her dad on Sunday and went to the beach. We had a nice dinner afterwards. When we got back to the E.L. we went hot tubbing.

Tonight I went out to the bar with my friends and she was there, think she was interested in my bro. I wasn't drinking.

Went back to the bar later because I had a funny feeling. Talked to her for a minute, and then watched some people play pool. Saw her with some dude around her arm, and later they were kissing. Played it cool, went to the bathroom and they were gone.

I'm not really suprised, but definitely heartbroken. I've been through this pattern a billion times before.

This has got to end. I have to do something or I'm going to drive myself insane. I tend to be a pretty emotional person, my heart can't take another one of these.

God bless those of you that feel the same way.

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Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Jizz-Fritter

Odds are, the guy she was kissing was acting like he was not interested.

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"Principle is okay up to a certain point, but principle doesn't do any good if you lose." Dick Cheney

Skettios

Not really. He was definitely interested. I was trying to keep everything on a really low key level because

1. She got me a job
2. We're headed to Taiwan in August

I was pretending to be not interested, I let her call me, etc. etc. but I guess I really never said no to anything she asked. Kind of felt compelled. I didn't have a chance. Wish I could disappear.

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Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Nitrox

Dude, quit being passive about this. If you were around her that much and had that many opportunities to "get" her, why not just say "fuck it" and make your move. The worse that could happen is that you don't have her in the end (like now) but then you'd at least know that she was unattainable.

thespian86

I feel quite the same my friend. I am slightly over weight and since my last girl friend left me I have been finding it really hard to not grasp at any sign of love.

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EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Skettios

I don't disagree, normally that's my policy. However we have plans to be in close proximity for the next year. I can't exactly let this relationship get awkward, which is why I have to play it cool, and let her make the moves that she wants to.

I didn't sleep at all last night, but it gave me some time to think.

I've kind of realized that I deserve a lot better than this. I want a girl that's into me as much as I'm into her, and I'm willing to wait for the right one.

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Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Nitrox

"I want a girl that's into me as much as I'm into her, and I'm willing to wait for the right one."

Never forget those words.

That's why I have an ex-wife. Patience will ultimately be your friend in the end

timalkin

Skettios, I feel for you man. I've personally been in that same situation with a girl that I liked many times, and frankly, I'm tired of it.

I helped do some maintenance work in a house the other day, and I had to go inside the place to do the work. About 3 or 4 college-aged guys lived there. They were sitting around watching TV, and I noticed that a very attractive girl was sitting in the living room with them. I figured she was probably a girlfriend of one of the guys, and really thought nothing more of it. I quickly found out that she is the girlfriend of this real asshole/fratboy type guy that lives there.

I had to go into his bedroom for a few minutes, and I noticed a box of condoms on his dresser, with one of the wrappers laying open next to the box. I'm not sure why, but I felt incredible anger/sadness when I saw this box. I just couldn't believe that this asshole was fucking this girl and generally enjoying a relationship with her, and I have nobody. I should be the one enjoying a relationship with a great girl. This particular girl probably isn't worth a shit if she's with such a fratboy type, but that's beside the point.

It seems as though nice guys generally do finish last. I may not seem very nice on this forum, but I generally use the TFP to get a lot of shit off my chest. I'm really not that bad of a guy, and I thought I had a great relationship up until a month ago. That all turned to shit, and I'm finding the feelings that I had before I dated my ex-girlfriend coming back in a huge rush. Feelings of bitterness mainly.

I have resigned myself to getting a good paying job, buying my dream home in the woods, and just living there with my firearms and pets. I really doubt that I'll ever find someone interested in me again, and it hurts. Life isn't fair, and I guess it could be worse.

Sorry for the rant.