Sleepyjack

Quite often, on shows like Rikki Lake or some other chat show, or even other places, prostitution is claimed to be the oldest profession in the world?
Mainly as some justificaiton of the work, i guess, but is it actually the oldest profession?

how do they know?

you'd think that they'd try to sell something else, before their body? I guess it might not have been taboo back then

Spartak

Heh. When prostitution got legalised (pretty much) in New Zealand earlier this year, the "aw its the oldest profession" mantra was the thing that was repeated over and over by the prostitute supporters.

Seems a pretty lame justification to me.

And I reckon a soldier would be the oldest profession, purely because of agression, and in the old days it would have been a better investment in a group of thugs then in a prostitute, I mean one could have used slaves for sex. Also the whole idea of a prostitue would also require some sort of currency system. I dunno, it's late and I'm rambling.

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bermuDa

sex is one of the most basic and obvious commodities. it makes sense that the first men were susceptible to the wiles of a curvy female who wanted something in return for her... services.

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Reno49

Nope. She had to sell it first, so "sales" is the world's oldest profession. Unless, of course, she advertised it before she sold it, making "marketing" the world's oldest profession.

Mettler

I don't see anything wrong with prostitution. It's the girl's choice to do it.

It's considered rude to call a girl a slut when she has sex with many men, but if she goes and makes money from it & has a higher hygiene standard than 'sluts', then I don't see what's wrong with it.

Furthermore, I do consider it wrong if that is what a girl does as a last resort to feed an addiction to drugs or alcohol tho.

Sleepyjack

This thread isn't about the validity of prostitution, merely whether it may be the oldest profession or not?
I am pretty much indifferent to prostitution anyway.
Although i have prostitued myself...maybe metaphorically

Anyway, i like Reno49's thinking on this one
Some kind of business or negotiating would've been done before this, surely?
Even though, to an extent, theres business and negotiating tied in with prosistuion anyway? isn't there?

moonstrucksoul

i believe it is an expression

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rockzilla

I think prostitution is called the world's oldest profession because it's referred to in the bible. If I had to call anything the world's oldest profession, it'd be hunting, where do you think cavemen got the currency to pay for all those neanderthal hookers?

nirol

I guess if you look at it that way, you must concede that the prey that they first hunted was Neanderthal Hookers. Therefore, Prostitution or Hunters would have been superceded by that now taboo profession of Rapists.

Seriously, I have always doubted this saying. The word profession connotes some type of skill and learning. I would say that it was one of the world's oldest "trades" though.

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rufgti

lol...Im not sure that a prostitute would be considered a professional--it is a designation of skill and from some stories Ive heard, quite a few are lacking

However, IF prostitution is not the oldest "profession", then what is?

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pazza

but if its the oldest, then what were people doing to pay for it?

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Rodney

Speaking seriously, I'd probably put baking or beer-brewing before prostitution. And then there's the medicine-man/healer/priest profession. Probably before the first woman tried to sell it, there was some guy getting a cut of the tribe's hunt without doing any work because he made 'em think he could negotiate with the sun god or something.

motdakasha

if it was the oldest profession, then how did they know they could get money from people? wouldn't monetary value and an economy first need to be established in order to take advantage of it? i imagine other professions came before prostitution, otherwise people wouldn't have a steady income that they knew they could blow on a chick. for instance, laypersons like bricklayers, architects, etc. would you need a city, a street, or a brothel for a prostitute to get customers? many things came before a prostitute, so i doubt it's the oldest profession there is.

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Charlatan

Motdakasha has a point but I'm not sure it is accurate... Technically for prostitution to occur you don't need the exchange of currency.

Goods and services in exchange for sex work just as well. For example, I could go fishing and have some surplus fish... I could give Motdakasha some fish for sex. She gets fed and I get some sex.

Of course if you go back far enough you could even say, protection is a service. I will protect and keep you alive in return for you sexual services...

All of this said, the reason I've always thought of prostitution as the oldest profession is that for the most part people didn't pay for things like food and shelter. There was much more communalism (tribalism if you will).

The first "marriages" were (in my mind) not about love but about who you could support. If you were injured or could no longer support you "spouse" she would move on to those who could provide for her.

Technically a "business" arrangement. Sex and breeding for protection, food and shelter.

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motdakasha

In the scenarios you gave, guardsmen and fishermen would then be professions preceding prostitution. So, if you want to nitpick over words, just eliminate "monetary value" from my post (substitute it with "goods and services of value" if you want); it still holds true in your examples.

Basically, an economy must be pre-existing for prostitution to occur. An economy thrives on professions that precede prositution.

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Charlatan

I see where you are coming from but I was thinking that I am just a guy who fishes to feed myself... not to sell at the market, or just a big guy that can offer protection from the elements or other people (rather than a professional guardsman).

I was thinking of people in the distant past (i.e. when we lived in caves and not in cities). I am suggesting a period prior to the concept of economy.

raeanna74

Farming has got to be older than prostitution. That and Motherhood. Prostitution may be one OF the oldest but it's obviously not THE oldest profession.

And don't try to tell me that motherhood isn't a profession. Ain't gonna fly.

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Charlatan

I don't think I've said that I'm not convinced prostitution is the earliest profession.

That said, it is likely one of the earliest.

Raeanna... I'm not convinced farming becomes a profession until later in history. While there were certainly those who farmed, if they are not taking their good to market (i.e. they don't have a surplus) then they are just farming for their own use. This is not a profession this is feeding yourself.

The same can be said of Motherhood. This is not a profession. You are not hired or paid goods in exchange for being a Mother.

I would argue that Shaman or Priests are some of the earliest professions.

A Shaman would be supported (i.e. paid in food and shelter) by a collection of people so they could have a conneciton with some sort of "spirit world".

Remeber, I am going back to a pre-history kind of world here and basing this on pure speculation. Quite frankly in the world I'm thinking about there would be little need for prostitution as a man owuld most likely just take the woman he wanted (as long as she wasn't under the "protection" of a stronger male).

Dale Kemp

I think you all miss the point of the expression, that prostitution is the oldest profession. Since we're here, it follows that we had parents and so did they, back to the "first" humans. Since those first humans had children, then they had sex with each other. Now the assumptions are: (1) women have sex with men to get men to support and protect them, and (2) that sex (or women's services) in "exchange" for support and protection (men's services) is prostitution. So the first profession was the first woman selling herself to the first man for support and protection.

I don't agree with this myself. I don't define the "exchange" made by a loving couple to each contribute what they can to build the family and make one another's lives better to be selling themselves in any way. Thus, it is not prostitution. But if one sells themselves sexually to a stranger for money, then it is. So I have a narrower definition.

But the women's movement took a very jaundiced view of male-female relationships, and even advocated that ALL women should seek love and affection with other women because ALL sex between women and men, was rape of the women. With that world view, then the only reason a woman would have sex with a man was to prostitute herself.

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Monre

But for them to have food to grow up to have a child you need food.so wouldn't hunter/gatherer be first.

Charlatan

Hunter/gatherer is something the guy would have been doing anyway... He isn't doing it for someone else until the woman comes along...

Besides, in the end I don't think you are supposed to take sayings all that literal.

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Slims

Don't get confused, by 'oldest profession' it means in the hunter-gatherer sense.

I.e. the caveman gives food and whatnot to the cavewomen in return for her affection.

Kindof like how you treat a puppy.

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