CityOfAngels

I didn't know which board to post this is, so I chose Sexuality since this situation has a bit to do with sex...

I've been officially with my girlfriend since May 5th, 2003, but we started off in March as just fuck-buddies. She and I both agreed that we were both horny, but she's going to go off to UC Davis in September so we decided to not make our relationship any more than just sex. We had also made a pact to not have sex with someone else without telling each other about it either first or right afterwards.
Time went by. I've asked her countless times, "Who have you had sex with?" She says, "My ex-boyfriend whom I was with for a year, and some guy I cheated on him with while I was drunk, which was only once." I asked, "Were any of those times when you were with me?" She said, "No."
For some reason she wanted to drop me off on her friend because I guess she was getting too attached to me and noticed that if she didn't let me go, it would hurt too much when she left. For about a month I kept declining; "No! All I want is you!" Little did she know that I was very fond of her myself. So, after all the pressure from both her and her friend, I finally gave up and fucked her friend. The day afterwards, I called her up and said, "Finally what you wanted to happen has happened." She was devastated. After two weeks of not talking to me, she finally showed up at my door and told me how she had fallen in love with me. In truth, I was already in love with her, and the only reason I fucked the other girl (other than she was hot as hell) was because I thought that it was what she wanted. Apparently it wasn't. After a grip of drama, I asked her out on May 5, 2003, and she said yes.
Despite the bad memories of the other girl and I, my girlfriend and I have been happily together. We've had our ups and downs (especially with her habitual lying), but overall we knew that we love each other with our entire beings. But then this morning, she was talking about getting married, and I told her, "How can I marry a girl who lies to me and keeps secrets from me? How can I call a woman my other half when she won't even tell me about her life?" So she began telling me, one after the other, explanations of her feelings of different things. That conversation went great. It was awesome to finally see some honesty. But then later on, she said, "Oh yeah...there's one more thing I forgot to mention. Two days after I took your virginity, my ex-boyfriend," (not the one she was with for a year, but one she was with for a month just before me),"and I fucked." I was like, "why didn't you tell me before!?" and she said, "I just forgot!" BULLSHIT! How can you forget that you have sex with someone? I asked her if she was drunk or high and she said, "No."
I don't know what to do. I feel so damned betrayed. She not only fucked someone else without telling me right afterwards, but it's like, all this time we've been "In love" and she just now tells me this. Plus she lied to me when she said that the only guys were that one ex-boyfriend and the other guy she cheated on him with. I don't even know if anything else is gonna pop up that she "forgot." What should I do? Should I dump her or give her another chance? I really love her, but I'm afraid my love for her might be blinding me to the real truth of how deliterious our relationship is to me. Please help!

cj2112

First let me post a disclaimer, this in no way is the only solution and may or may not be the right solution, it is simply what "I" suggest.

It is my belief that without three components love can not exist. Those components are as follows:

1. Trust. Do you trust this person implicitly, can you take their word as absolute truth, can you let them see all of who you are without fear of being judged?

2. Respect. Pretty self explanatory there i think.

3. Admiration. Do you admire the person, when you look at them do you truly admire the person they are, their character, are they somebody you would be proud to have raise your children?

If those three things aren't mutual, then you do not have an intimate loving relationship. I think that every (and yes I know that is a BOLD statement) failed marriage can be traced back to the lack of one or more of those three elements on the part of one or both partners.

I'm not gonna tell you how to handle the situation, but I will tell you to ask yourself if those three things truly exist, then act accordingly.
I hope that things work out for the best for you. My pm box is always available if ya need to talk w/ somebody.

CityOfAngels

1. Trust - After today I have none, and I've had very little in the past.

2. Respect - I have the utmost respect for her.

3. Admiration - I admire her kind heart, and her good grades in high school. This section is very iffy...

I dunno. I really need some hardcore opinions on this. Please.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

rival

I was in the same situation as you. I was madly in love with a girl. We had a great relationship and things went really well for about 2 years. Then, she started lying to me about little things and I lost my trust in her. Since I no longer trusted her, I was always questioning where she had been and what she had been doing. We ended up fighting a lot and eventually went our seperate ways.

Without trust, there really can't be love. Trust is the foundation of every good relationship. If you don't trust her, you should get out now before things get ugly.

numberfive

Exactly. Out of those three I'd have to say trust is the most important. You can't love somebody if you can't trust them.

__________________
P.S. Always remember: to forget is a form of suicide. (If I could only remember to forget myself.)

Prince

Get rid of the twat. Simple as that.

If I understood correctly, she cheated on her ex...what makes you think she wouldn't cheat on you?

It's not worth the pain and suffering, not with the way you're being treated.

__________________
Who is John Galt?

rival

Hmm. He's having an issue trusting his girlfriend. A girlfriend he obviously still cares very deeply about. I don't think there is a real need to be abusive towards her.

GoldenOuroboros

I think trust is a mutual thing.. When you asked her to come clean she did? right.. ok. Love is also about forgiveness, but to a point of course. And you stated that she fell in love with you. Fuck buddies, I've never had them, but from what I've seen its just sex, yeah you got burned, but did she do this when she was in love with you?
I find it rare these days that anyone talks about getting married before their late 20's, if she's talking like this then well dude, she wants to keep you. She's trusted you enough to lay all her crap out on the table only to have it thrown back in her face.

The past is the past, and the future is the future, what you think about is the now and where the now will lead you.

And stop your bloody habitual lying and your trust for each other might just increase.. sheesh..


-Goldy

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thalakos315

i would have to agree with GoldenOuroboros on a few points..
first you two started off as "fuck buddies" which to my understanding is just sex without strings.. at that point you two were not involved in a relationship correct? so really what does it matter.. as long as you know you are the only one since you started seeing each other exclusivly
second the fact that she told you this can say 1 of 2 things either 1 shes a spiteful bitch who revels in the pain of others or 2 (which seems much more likely) she trusts you and wants you to know about these little unpleasentries
also i would have to agree with prince in that she cheated on a previous boyfriend.. whats to say she won't cheat on you? of course every relationship is different and just because she cheated on a previous boyfriend in no way makes it certain that she will cheat on you..
i do have to give you a big pat on the back about your response to the marrage question.. if your going to vow to spend the rest of your life with a person.. and only that person then you had better know that you can trust them
what raises question in my mind.. is that if she was in love with you.. why did she keep pressuring you to sleep with her friend?
this makes me wonder how connected she is with her own feelings.. if she only realized how she felt about you after the deed had been done.. then how does she know that marrage is a good idea? or even a relationship at all?
seems to me that she means well but can do with some serious soul searching here.. might help explain why she has such a problem with lying
overall i would give her a second chance and at least try to work things out.. however don't be suprised if things head south when shes at college.. absence does not always make the heart grow fonder

Penguin

a few things to consider

she hasnt cheated on you while youve been "officially" in a relationship.
yes she lied about sleeping with someone else, but not cheated.

perhaps you could find out why she lied, perhaps it was because she thought you'd be hurt or that she got around too much and you wouldnt like her.
it sounds as though you two can communite well, i would suggest that.

i agree also that you cannot (or should not?) have love without trust. at least she was honest and told u, better late than never. at least give her credit for that, if she was still lying to you, you would be ignorantly bliss right now.
so its a matter of whether or not you think the lying as ended, whether you can trust her or not.

i wish you luck

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I'm a sex object. I say sex and women object.

CityOfAngels

GoldenOuroboros - Yeah, I've been thinking about the fact that she finally did come clean (even if it was after 5 months). But the fact remains: I'm hurt very deeply. As I said, when she and I were "fuck buddies", we made a pact to tell each other either before or right afterwards if we decide to have sex with someone else. Plus, throughout our entire relationship, I asked her about a million times if she had slept with anyone else besides the two she originally mentioned, and every single time she said, "No." She not only broke our pact but there's also a five month lie involved.
These lies are on top of many other lies. She had a friend (guy friend) who was buying her expensive clothes, shoes, and even roses. Well, the first I heard of this guy, she was talking on AIM with him and I asked who she was. She hesitated and said, "Oh, a friend from church." That hesitation made me ask again, "Tell me the truth. Who is he?" "Ok,...he's a friend from school." The very first thing she said about the guy was a lie.
Then this guy goes on and buys her expensive clothing and shoes, and she decides to choose him as the go-to guy for support whenever she and I had any disagreements. From what she told me, all he was doing was telling her how controlling I am and how she needs to get out of this relationship. I put two and two together: Expensive clothes, shoes, roses, telling her she needs to break up with me....This guy was out for one thing: Her pussy.
So, after asking her to promise to never hang out with this guy (which in a sense was wrong since it was holding down her freedom of choice, but I had to do something since I didn't even know the guy), I later find out that while I was at work, she was planning to go hang out with him and go shopping with him again behind my back. More lies.
Something tells me that she loves me for who I am, because she never complains when I'm broke; but then she jeopardized our relationship for a guy who bought her whatever she wanted. Something tells me she would never cheat on me because I know how much she loves me, but then a) she cheated on her ex-boyfriend whom she was very much in love with, b) she 'cheated' on me when we were fuck buddies, and c) she thrives on attention. When she's gone at Davis, something tells me she'll end up supplementing the attention I can't give her anymore with flashing guys, getting drunk at parties, and eventually going all out and physically cheating on me. What scares me even more is that she told me about this guy 5 months later; how long will it take for her to tell me about all of that? How long will I think our relatonship is peachy clean before I pop in a "College Girls!" porno and see her in a gangbang?
If you saw my girlfriend, you would be worried too. She's amazingly beautiful. How does that one song go? "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. So from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you."
So, two things still remain (I know I'm being slightly redundant here): I love her deeply; and I'm hurt deeply.
When she told me the heart-wrenching news, she saw how devastated I was. We were sitting in her car at the park, and after trying to hold and kiss me while crying at the same time (I couldn't even look at her at the time. I just wanted to end it right then and there), she left the car. After letting her walk a ways, I had to chase her down. She sat on the wet grass, crying, and told me how she doesn't deserve me; how I don't deserve to be treated like this. I love her, so I tried to comfort her; but she wouldn't let me. She was telling me that I should find someone who would be good to her, but I told her I'm not giving up on her just yet. After a little while, she finally gave in and let me hold her and comfort her.
I don't know though. I didn't want to make my decision right there, because I knew whatever decision I made would be hasty and rash. But every time I think about her and that guy, it hurts soooo bad. Last night I couldn't eat or sleep. I always thought that people who didn't eat or sleep were just being drama queens but now I know how it is. I'm truly devastated, and don't want anything like this to happen again.

I really appreciate all of your input on this matter.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

Averett

It sounds like she might have some self esteem issues... I dunno though.

And just because a girl is beautiful, doesn't make her a liar and a cheat, but I know you know that

You both have to sit down and have a long talk. Get everything out on the table and start new. Voice your concerns about her cheating on you. Make sure she knows how hurt you are. Tell her that you're having problems trusting her.

Without trust, you have nothing. Thats my personal feelings on things. Talk to her, and try to see if you can someday build that trust back in her.

Good luck

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

Jedbeck

It sounds as though you may have some trust issues yourself. Why did you keep asking her if she had been with anyone else over and over again? If she told you no that really should have been good enough unless something else sparked the need to ask again other than your own distrust of her word. Granted there was a time she slept with someone else that you did not know about but perhaps she was just trying not to hurt you. After-all you did say that it happened 2 days after your first time and your first time as fuck buddies on top of that. Perhaps she was just scared to tell you after she fell in love with you because she had told you all this time that she hadn't. Perhaps her telling you now was a way of showing you that she is in love with you and ready to be honest.

I am not trying to defend her I am just trying to offer other points of view that may have been missed in all the emotional outpouring.

Good luck and I hope you are able to work through this if you really love her.

Thraeryn

Okay, this is The Two Cents of the Evil, so heed it. We see what you don't.

1) It's completely possible to forget people you've slept with. You obviously haven't slept with enough people to know that. Which is why you don't understand:
2) Sex isn't the be-all, end-all. I've had sex with people that I didn't really like; in fact, I've had sex with people for revenge purposes. It's very intimate and all, but so is surgery, and you don't want to spend the rest of your life with your heart doctor, do you?
3) College is totally the place for her to get all that crazy shit out of her system so that she can come back to you a happy, sane, settled person who has found herself beneath all the childishness. You just make sure that your presence is felt. Call her. Write her. You can still be part of her life when she's away, especially if you:
4) Tell her that you'll understand her carnal relations at school, and ACTUALLY DO SO. Yes, she WILL end up sleeping with someone else, but her sense of guilt will keep it to a minimum. If it doesn't, what does that tell you?
5) Stop asking questions you don't want to know the fucking answers to. One of the main precepts that the evil recognize as truth is "Ignorance is bliss." You can fool yourself, and you can do it a LOT easier than you think you can.

Okay, I think I'm done informing for now. There's only so much public service I can do and still feel good about myself.

lemming

if she is lying to you i say get rid of her..if it was a one time thing(she lied to you once and felt absolutly horrible about it) then id say differently..but if she lies multiple times and you forgive her or what not she will just do it again and again , and in the end youll just cause yourself more hurt. this is just from my experiences tho.

clifclav

General good rule of thumb:

If a person cheats on someone in an intimate relationship they are a cheater.

Do you really want to marry a cheater??

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Neither rain , nor cold, nor dark of night shall.......ahh whatever, just get me a beer!

skysooner

If I read this right, the "cheating" occurred when you two had just started out as fuck buddies. I'm not sure I would say this is a complete trust breaking issue. However where there is smoke there is fire. If she was not opening up herself to you before this, I think she might have some trust issues herself. I fully believe that for true love to exist between people they both have to love themselves first, and if she only opened up to you after an ultimatum, I'm not sure we can say that she loves herself enough to be in this kind of relationship. The "cheating" (especially with women) is usually a sign of some deep-seated emotional problems (sometimes just immaturity) that need to be worked out first.

I completely trust my wife. She is always where she says she will be, and I know she didn't cheat on me sexually prior to marriage (she was a virgin). The love we have is passionate yet comfortable. I know what you are going through. I had an intense sexual/live-in relationship with a girl when I was a sophomore in college. However she was a habitual liar as well. She claimed she had never slept with her previous boyfriend while we were dating at the early stages yet her stories didn't add up. Later on, we came close to getting engaged. I happened to move home during the summer and was coming back in 3 months. She ended up cheating on me with a friend and broke up with me prior to telling me what she had done. She had some hardcore issues she needed to deal with nor was I ready for that relationship at that point in my life.

JBX

Hold on, MARRIAGE dating since May 2003, Three Months. MARRIAGE! Lad, back off. You sound young, go out and enjoy life. No Girlfriends for you for a while. 3 Months talking about Marriage, jeese.

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"Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"

CityOfAngels

Thraeryn -
1) She's 18, I'm 19. I'm pretty damned sure she hasn't slept with enough people to start actually forgetting about them.
2) Just because you've done it doesn't mean it's right. It just means you don't find sex to be sacred, as I try to do.
3) Of course I'm gonna make my prescence felt. Luckily I have a job that will allow me to visit her every weekend.
4) How about no? I'm not about to tell her that she can fuck someone else and it won't end our relationship. If she would cheat on me, then obviously she doesn't love me in the way that I need her to love me before I marry her.
5) Actually I do want the answers. I prefer to not be ignorant. I prefer someone genuine rather than someone I want them to be. I always believed that if the genuine person isn't who you want, then look elsewhere.

JBX - Ya I know it's kinda early, but do know that we were good friends for two and a half years before we started our relationship.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

CityOfAngels

So, I don't know.....

I think I'm going to give her one more chance. The problem is I don't know how I should do it? I want to say, "You lie to me one more time, it's over." But it's not only an unrealistic request but also would make her scared to tell me about past lies. But then again, I can't stand the lying at all. It really hurts. How do you think I should handle it?

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

lurkette

I don't think a relationship that is based on ultimatums is a very healthy one. I think the basic issue - that you don't trust her, nor has her behavior really been trustworthy - is still there. Add to that that 1. you're both very young and 2. there's still the issue of her being in a different city, and I think a lot of things argue for calling the romantic/sexual part of the relationship quits. After wounds have healed, maybe you can still be friends, but it sounds to me like you're clinging to this one a little too hard, and harder than the circumstances would really argue for.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

rogue49

Geez...

This is a big huge pile of shit melodrama.
Who gives a shit who slept with who?

Do you want to be with her? Then do it.
It's not about sex.
It's about trust.

Start from stratch, both of you forget the past.
Define your relationship.
Is it open or closed?
If it open then you damn well better understand the consequences.

BTW, considering your emotional state now, I would suggest closed.
It doesn't sound like either one of you can handle an open one.

Since this is true, agree to this, and don't betray each other.
Simple
Control your damn hormones, use them on each other.

If neither of you can't, then separate...because this roller-coaster is silly.

Please for your own sanity, forget the past.
Focus on each other.

GoldenOuroboros

Rogue.. Always very wise And I agree with lurkette, ultimatums... sounds like you're trying to put a leesh on this girl : /

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CityOfAngels

That's the thing. I'm not trying to put a leash on her. I mean, where do you draw the line between saying, "I'm not going to tolerate this certain thing in our relationship" and "Here's a leash. Put it on"?

Rogue - As said before, we made a pact to tell each other about it. It was open, but with certain guidelines/conditions put into place.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

GoldenOuroboros

But mate.. see... as soon as you say 'I'm not goin to tolerate this certain thing in a relation ship' you are using a leash 8|

You two have to have trust in each other.. trust isn't about say what you can and can't do.. trust is about knowing that the person won't do it because they love you deeply

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Aladdin Sane

Both of you are addicted to chaos. My bet is that she grew up in a home of extreme instability, and is incapable of real intimacy.

It's time to move on, dude.

Both of you need to listen to Loveline with Dr. Drew and Adam. You could learn alot from them.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

CityOfAngels

Haha that's kinda funny because she and I recently just started listening to Love Line.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

wry1

It sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind already. You don't trust her, and since she's not coming clean until forced that leaves me thinking that there are two possibilities:

1. - She's really into keeping her own space and secrecy is how she does it (yeah, right....)

2. - She's not sure what she wants and so is trying to have it all.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a bit jaded when it comes to women - take my Poll(also on the Tilted Sexuality page) and you'll understand after reading the comments. However, I think that you need to sit her down and explain that there are certain things in your relationship which trouble you and that from now on it has to be completely open and honest - or else it has to end.

If she agrees, then don't pressure her further on the matter. But if you find out she's lied to you - or if she's not telling you important details which you feel you need to know - then again: end it.

All you can give her is a chance. Ultimately, it's up to her to prove to you that she's changed her ways. Like a few folks have mentioned so far, she's come clean with you now. There's got to be something there for her to do that.

Part of your being hurt comes from the fact that what you thought you knew about her was only part of the picture. That's always rough. In time, however, you can work past that....but only if she continues being truthful and worthy of your trust.

Good luck, and if you need any support or anything just PM me.

bermuDa

the ones we love are the ones who hurt us the most...

There will always be disappointments when love is involved, you really just need to roll with the punches if you want to stay with this girl.

I think you want to stay with her, but now is WAY too friggin early to even consider marriage. Getting married while you're in college is not a good idea unless one of you is dying of a terminal disease.

From what I've read, she wouldn't make a good wife. Trust is a huge part of marriage and you apparently you two having ironed that out yet. She did come clean and perhaps wants to be honest, but will she stick to this? What else has she been keeping from you?

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jbrooks544

If you were really "in love" with this girl and she was the right one and you should get married, etc. then you wouldn't have been expressing all of those problems and doubts. You have feelings for the girl, granted - I'm not trying to make light or reduce these nice feelings - but it isn't the "get married" kind of true love. It is a hot girl, great sex and more than a little infatuation. It doesn't sound like this relationship is going to last forever but so what? Have fun - be honest - let it go for what it is and after it all breaks apart then you will be sad for a while, have other relationships and learn, mature and live and love some more later. Have fun now and don't get so hung up with having the "perfect" relationship. Maybe you will have 5 more before you find mrs. right. If it is right then, by definition you don't have those doubts and problems. It is ok to be in a relationship that won't last forever or result in marriage. When it is right you will know it.

n1ck31

I like the "define your relationship and forget the past" option. Give her a chance, but do not- i mean do not- tolerate any more lying/strange outings with male friends... I don't mean too controlling, many girls i know have longtime male friends that they aren't about to come close to fucking, but you have to use your judgement.... a habitual liar is a very hard thing to deal with in a relationship. Talk to her, give her a second chance, but make it her last.