Midnightskyline

Hello all!

It's been a long time since I've posted on these forums. Mainly it was because I thought the topics I'd raised had been exhausted. I'm a very self-aware person, and I know all the signs that I'm becoming depressed/exasperated/unfulfilled/dissatisfied/insert negative emotion here.

So, now, I have a new one

(Just musing...) It's funny, I'm one of life's happy people. If you were to ask anyone that knew me well, they'd say I was almost annoying energetic, positive, loyal, etc etc. I know this sounds like I'm blowing my own trumpet, but I am also aware of my many faults, which cancel the positive out I can be possessive, impatient, disorganised and lazy.

There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who have all, or any combination of these traits, and many more besides. The point of my rambling is this...

Where has the curiosity gone?

This question may seem odd at first glance, but allow me to explain. I am an extremely curious person. I check the news at least twice a day. I'm on wikipedia at least once a day. If I don't know something, I'll Google it. Etc Etc. I hate not knowing things, and knowledge is power, after all. Why are so many people content to go about their business with no regard to what happens in the world around them? Or how to improve themselves? Or learn from others' experiences? I say this because it links in with what I have to say later, but this was the first thing that came to mind. My girlfriend has no curiosity whatsoever when it comes to anything remotely sexual, relationship-y or anything involving taboo.

At the moment I'm three weeks into an eight week course for being certified, and released, to fly a Boeing 737-800 for a major european airline. Again, you think, I'm blowing my own trumpet. I shall balance it out, by saying that I'm finding it absolutely impossible. It's by far the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm confident that I'll prevail in the long run, but it's lowered my emotional thresholds so far, that I've come to this board to vent my feelings once again.

Isn't it true of difficult things in life... Some people (myself included) will be brought down emotionally by something difficult until it is complete, and will suffer depression, lack of self-esteem, and many other negative emotions in the mean time, where they might be immune to it otherwise. These things I'm going through right now have lowered my threshold and I'm in a whirlwind of thoughts, desires, emotions, fears. Funnily enough; nothing to do with airlines, airliners or frigging standby hydraulic system power control units.

So why am I posting in the sexuality section?

Well, obviously, as I'm doing an intensive course I'm away from home. Home being where my girlfriend and I live. I've been away from her for relatively long extended periods before, but never when I've been doing something so intense. I hate it, it's really bringing me down, being away from her. All sorts of things are going through my head...should I get engaged to her before I found out that I'm going to be based in the deepest, darkest part of rural Lithuania, or Slovakia? Should I part ways with her so I can focus on my career? Shall I keep on as we are?

So anyway, that's the backstory. (You've probably guessed by now, this isn't going to be short...)

Some of you will remember the posts a few weeks ago. They're probably still on page 1 of this sub-forum. In them I mentioned a few things regarding fetishes, sexual desires, ways in which to suggest them to my girl.

The good/bad news (depending on what side of the fence you stand) is that these are things of the past. I no longer have these urges, and while now and again I'll masturbate to these mental images, it is not of paramount importance to me that I have these things in my life. I can't explain why this is, although I suspect it has something to do with the focus of my life is completely on something else right now.

Ok, let's assume this has been positive to my sex life, as my girlfriend is now more comfortable with me sexually, knowing that I don't want to dress her up in weird clothes and suchlike. (I wonder if she's forgotten?!) I am experiencing less and less desire for her sexually. This is literally the most devastating thing I have ever experienced while with her. While my libido and sex drive generally has not changed one iota, it is no longer directed at her. And the weirdest thing is, it's not directed at anyone/anything else either. I don't ever/have never felt the urge to stray and find someone else, and I don't have fantasies about other women or anything like that. When I masturbate, I'm thinking about her and not the 99,466 girls I've just watched in some random porno. I don't have any crushes, no-one that I 'fancy'.

But, when I go home for the weekends, I'm raging with sexual desire, but I'm almost 100% indifferent as to whether or not we sleep together. This is very strange. Could anyone shed any light on what this could possibly be?

At this point let me just say that she is the perfect woman/girl for me. She saves me from myself, she is so compatible with me it's almost scary. Our sex is good, and it satisfies me 85-90%. It's that last bloody 10%. I should feel lucky with what I have because she truly is amazing. However, human beings ALWAYS want what they can't have.

And, finally, this is where the curiosity comes in. She has no curiosity regarding sex. Although this wouldn't bother me normally, because the rest of our relationship is very sound, this is a really glaring omission. Why have a brilliant relationship when you can have a perfect one?!

She never asks me what I like. She never tells me what she likes. She never initiates. It always has to be on her terms. It has to be 10.30pm+. It has to be the same positions, same routine. (I'm fucking 21 years old!!!! Shouldn't I be dripping with sweat and content with the world everytime I have sex?!) *ahem* I feel like an old married couple. And while the sex is actually very good, as I said, it's so annoying that I just can't extend it to 100%. If you could, why wouldn't you? And THIS is what I'm talking about with curiosity. I said to her the other day, 'Don't you want to find out what we both like, incorporate it so it enhances both of our sex lives? If you want something, why not ask for it?'. And she did the worst possible thing she could have ever done. She just shrugged her shoulders and said 'but I like it the way it is'. I literally shat a brick. If she's like this when I'm 21, what'll it be like when I'm 41/51 etc????????

This might sound like I'm overreacting. But let me furnish this with some details. The routine = 30-45 mins foreplay (caressing, nipple licking, fingering and clit stimulation), followed by 30-60 mins of missionary or 'off the side of the bed' (don't know what the name of that position is...). That's it. That's all it ever is. Ever. Ever. Let me re-iterate. I'm 21. No sex in the car anymore, never during the day, she has to have been in the shower no more than an hour before....etc. She doesn't have OCD, and the funny thing is she used to be a bit more wild. She *suggested* anal about 3 weeks after we'd first gotten together. I literally nearly came in my pants when she suggested that. It wasn't so much about the anal but about the fact she had the werewithall to come out and say that. We haven't done anal for maybe....18 months? And she told me she would never do it, ever again, even on our wedding night. (I'm not that into anal, but it's the principle). The other day I suggested she go on top during sex because I like to look at her and feel her boobs etc, and she literally rolled her eyes and said 'great, what a joy' very sarcastically. How great did that make me feel! Needless to say we simply defaulted to our standard position. Depressing.

And I don't *think* it's my fault. That sounds arrogant and complacent, but I really do try at sex, I never have performance issues and I ALWAYS put her needs before mine. She will orgasm 99.99999% of the times we have sex. Only once though, and only through manual clit stimulation. Even after an hour she won't be anywhere near coming a second time. (Anyone got any tips for inducing vaginal orgasm?! That might spice things up a bit.......!!!!!!) And don't think this lack of variety is because I'm not suggesting things. As you can see from my previous posts, I am.

It's almost as if her body is telling her yes, but her mind is telling her no (see what I did there?! ) .

So; how to get her mind to say yes? To open up? To WANT to suggest new things that she thinks she might like? To WANT to improve?!

As you may have read previously, I would love to buy and use a vibrator with her. But she's not interested in actually getting one, even though she brought up the subject?! (which was a huge departure in itself). What women *wouldn't* want a to get a vibrator and use it to improve sex?

I just don't understand the lack of curiosity, and it's starting to do my head in.





Lastly, I've absolutely trawled the interwebs to find people's thoughts in similar situations. The most common response is 'talk to her, tell her what you want, etc'. This is another issue. Why do I feel such a perv for bringing it up? Please tell me I shouldn't feel like that?!

Another thing people suggest is 'cook her dinner, buy her flowers' etc. Well guess what happens if you try and do that. She says 'you're only being so nice because you want to ask me if we can try something/fuck me/you only care about sex/you're only being nice because you want something'. Depressing.


Summary:

How to get her to be curious about sex, and not afraid to suggest/ask for things?

How to re-direct my sexual desire towards her?

How to reassure myself that if it's like this at 21, what it's going to be like in 30, hell, 5 years time when we're married and she doesn't have to make an effort? (And that''s what it feels like she's doing. Making an effort. Not simply doing it for the enjoyment of it).

It's funny isn't it, I know this is probably the wrong place to be asking this question, but guys, if your significant other asked you something along the lines of 'will you let me do you up the ass and then I want you to suck your own shit off the strap on I'd just been doing you with'. Personally, I would stop at almost nothing if it got the other person off/ made them happy. I don't see the feeling is mutual with my girlfriend. So, am I being too demanding or is there sexual incompatibility? Obviously this is an extreme example but it serves a point.

Phew. Thanks for reading, if you've managed to get this far! But I feel better not having vented all this shit off and now I can get back to focusing on whether the DC Switched battery bus powers the standby rudder system or not.

MSD

Woah, wait, back up a second.

They let 21-year-olds fly passenger jets with only 8 weeks of training?

Tully Mars

That depends on what kind of prior training the person has had. If you had your VFR/IFR/Multi/Com/Instructor and a ton of hours... maybe, but I seriously doubt it would be that quick. Maybe if you already had your ATP on another type of craft you could do a 8 week course on the 737-800.

Schools offer all kinds of "guarantied" time lines in getting this ticket or that. A school in the Seattle area used to have an ad in the back of just about every pilot/plane magazine in the nation where they promised you could go from no training at all to your private VFR ticket in 7 days. It took me 3 months of working on it 2-3 evenings a week and almost every weekend to get mine. I know it took me way longer then 7 days. You need at least 80 of flight time, how they'd do that and the ground school in 7 days is beyond me.

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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

wyopen

You might consider counseling with a certified sex therapist. Clearly she has some issues with sex and you are right, it isn't likely to improve if you get married. Unless someone finds out why she only tolerates sex your life will become more and more frustrating. Get help or get out. Don't lock yourself into bad situation.

Poetry

This goes back to what most of us said to your initial posts in this forum, so I'm just going to copy and paste what I said to you that time, which has, as far as I can tell from this thread's info, proven to be true.

See, I'd write something new and more exacting, but I don't think you're going to listen. You're going to try to hold fast in the relationship as long as you can because ending it hurts like hell and it's frightening. I've done the same myself, and I'll likely do the same again.

But, it's highly likely that this relationship will implode on itself as your sexuality warps and she continues to lose respect in you. If you're lucky, that will happen during a time where it doesn't impact your professional or academic life. If, however, you're like the rest of us, the rising stress in your professional life will aggravate your personal life (or vice versa) and they'll both go to shit at the same time. Whee.

I don't mean to be a bitch, I really, really don't, but in my opinion you are posting these questions here in an attempt to delay your own growing knowledge of the situation and, at the same time, hoping that someone here will provide the shining golden path/excuse to successfully staying with her. It's pointless.

So, for your future reference, here's a clip of an email I wrote to another young TFPer who requested some advice. Read it, hopefully remember it for the next go-round, if you aren't too psychologically scarred from this one to ever have a normal relationship again. This sounds like prime breeding ground for becoming an MRA or a basic, woman-hating PUA, but that's just my opinion.

__________________
"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

dlish

Now i know why i like your posts so much.

Good advice. But he's been with this woman for a while now, what's expected to change if he hasnt already pushed those boundaries?

Personally, I think the OP needs to reevaluate his relationship with his partner. Whatever you do, do not get married to this woman. Sex is a dealbreaker in most relationships and i dont see it being any different in yours if you're here for this type of advice. Like wyopen said, get some professional help.

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I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

chinese crested

You are not being a bitch Poetry, but honest - his relationship has gone down the toilet. When planes and sex were mentioned - suddenly into my mind flashed a memory of a documentary about men who like humping cars, their shiny tail pipes and all that. Oh my gawd, I thought, its a plane humper.
You cook her a meal op, she assumes you have only done it because you want something sexual from her - would that be trained behaviour?

Midnightskyline

Hi all, thanks for your messages, and thanks for reading.

Just quickly; yes, it does take 8 weeks to get certified on a Boeing 737-800. That's not including the year I did at regular flight school and the three year degree I did prior to that. You could do it in a year, (0 hours to the level required to be eligible to train on an airliner) known as the integrated course. I haven't done that, but I started at 17 and here I am. It's like becoming a Doctor, you do general medicine at university and then you later specialise into another area.

Anyway, I can't really reply in depth at the moment because I've got place to be, but I shall give an update later tonight.

A few weeks ago when I read your comments, especially you, Poetry, I didn't want to agree with them but deep down I knew you were making a lot of sense. Now, it is still making sense but I am now consciously accepting it. I realise that I have a choice...either be not completely happy and content for the rest of my life, or, throw myself out of my comfort zone at a very difficult and inconvenient point in my life, feel like a douche for a few weeks, and then become lonely, depressed etc.

So, the lesser of two evils?!

Tully Mars

I meant to add something like this to my post last night just forgot.

I completely agree. You're 21, that's really pretty young. The difference between 21 and say 28-30 are about as big as the difference between 1 and 5. Really it's huge. If you're not happy with the sex now there's no reason to believe it will improve. You can go the therapy route, if she's willing. Something I wouldn't rule out if I really loved her but I'd also be preparing myself to move on if that either doesn't happens, doesn't really result in the changes you're looking for or she is not willing to openly address the issues.

Good luck finishing up your ATP.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Poetry

And here I was hoping you liked them because of my sexy Day of the Dead icon.

Nothing is going to change in this relationship. I mean, it could, but it isn't going to. She's displaying the posterchild symptoms of evopsych behavior, and unless he feels like completely emotionally detaching from the situation and getting her back in line (again, breeding grounds for the MRA/PUA sect), then they're stuck. Even if he did disengage, the relationship itself would change-- and not necessarily for the better, not to mention he'd have to keep the emotional distance and dominance for the rest of the relationship, which isn't healthy at all.

It takes a certain type of man to be able to do that-- sociopathic.


Let's enter into some generalizations in a huge block of text:

You stay with her. Your sex life continues to degrade into nothingness. This thrills her. You get married. You pop out a couple of kidlets the few times you finally reach your breaking point and decide that sex with her is better than no sex at all. She stops working to raise the kids, or only works part-time. You become main breadwinner for the family. You get up early, you go to work, you come home to a wife that has no interest in you save for the money you bring in. This entire time she's been cheating on you, maybe with a neighbor regularly, because that's easy once the kids are in school, and, hey, you're not giving her sex because you've disassociated from her sexually because of something she did to you when you were 21. You get angry, bitter, and resentful. You start cheating because you're horny and can't stomach your wife and the twisted relationship it has grown into. Your kids are deeply psychologically affected by growing up under the tutelage of two parents who don't emotionally or sexually connect. Eventually it explodes, divorce. She keeps the kids and the house, you pay child support, possibly alimony. If you have a daughter and she follows the stereotype, she starts sleeping around looking for that daddy figure you were never able to provide because you were either piloting around the country or living in a small apartment away from her. You have a son and he doesn't respect you because of how his mom doesn't respect you, or he hates his mom and pities you and grows up to be, at least in part, a misogynist. Healthy relationships are not options for your offspring.


When you say "not content for the rest of your life", you've detached from "the rest of your life". You have no grasp on what the rest of your life entails: how you're in each moment getting more and more miserable until you wind up in a retirement home surrounded by other people whose bodies have begun giving up on them, without a wife to hold your hand when you receive the news of your newest health problem, without grandkids to delight in, with no visitors, and your friends you worked with, grew up with, dying off all around you, receiving monthly invites to their funerals, with the growing realization that when you were 21 you made some bad choices because you didn't want to spend a few weeks lonely, depressed, and inconvenienced.

__________________
"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

chinese crested

Your description of her reaction when you asked her to go on top so you could look at her - I was wondering - how does she feel about herself and the way she looks - not how you feel - how she feels. Maybe she isnt comfortable with herself - which can be a major head fuck for all. If she feels she doesnt look good and is dieting say, then maybe she is starving and snappy at the temptation of food you are shoving at her after she has been avoiding it. Even if you break up, you were friends before you were lovers, see if there is anything you may have been missing - but no snooping etc, just try to listen carefully, and only ask gentle non direct questions - if it is a question of low self esteme and you are splitting, some well thought sound guidance and a moral boost from someone she knows who once loved the person she used to be = that might be a kind leaving present. Try true compliments, without snoggings and thought of a quicky, just as pleasantries. Making her smile can cost but a thought and a few words. Just my ramblings on sleeping tablets. My hands type the speed you used to see baywtch babes run along the beach - is that the right little head for shitfaced or bombed or 'out of ones tree'? Can we have a little Rasta man added please for when we are a tad or were a tad shitfaced in some way or other?

Midnightskyline

Poetry - thanks for that analogy. I'm fully aware that that's how life could end up being like. I'll come back to that in a minute.

Chinese crested - I have to say that's very perceptive of you! Come to think of it, this is probably the biggest issue that I haven't mentioned at all; that being her body image and consequently her self esteem when it comes to sexual matters. Her weight has fluctuated a lot even in the time I've known her, and from photos from a few years previously it's clear she's been through quite a lot.

Late 2005 she started university. I only saw her photos perhaps a month ago, and i was absolutely shocked. She said she was probably a (UK) size 18-20. EDIT:: equivalent of US size 20-22. In my mind that's a little big, and she looked she weighed at least twice the amount she does now around her face and neck. When I first met her, I thought she looked 'curvy'. I believe she was lower-mid size 14. She had the sexiest curvy hips, legs and D boobs. I thought/think she is beautiful, I truly do. I tell her as much regularly. Currently she's probably hovering around low 16 high 14 EDIT: US size 16-18 (For the record, this is not fat AT ALL in my eyes.) So, it turns out that she'd lost perhaps 5-8 stone in the year or two between her going to university and us meeting. That's a hell of a lot of weight, and I'm really surprised at myself for omitting this when considering these issues.

In the approx. three years we've been together, she's been steadily gaining weight. Not noticeably really, just enough to compare her to a photo from back then and realise that she's got a bit bigger.

She's been on a relatively severe diet for perhaps the last month. But I can safely rule this out as these things have been occurring far longer than that.

We had a conversation about sex a week or two ago, and I ended up asking her if her lack of sexual confidence/pride/curiosity was anything to do with her weight. She replied that 'you hit the nail on the head, it's absolutely nothing else apart from my weight'.

Problem solved right? Don't be silly, nothing in my life is ever that simple. Granted, she was at her thinnest when we first got together, which is when she was at her most 'liberated' sexually, but can 10 lbs REALLY have that much of an effect? How does she clean her teeth in the morning without breaking down in tears and comfort eating ice cream for the rest of the week?! Joking aside, I really don't think it's as simple as she's making out. I think she's trying to find an easy way out of a difficult conversation, and using her weight as a scapegoat, and an easy explanation as to why she 'tolerates' sex with me.

I suggested to her a couple of weeks ago that we do it during the day...(Trying to break the routine of only ever doing it before bed) and she looked at me with this really pained expression, almost apologetic, and she said 'I'm really sorry, I just don't feel like doing it in the day.' So I asked why (gently, not accusingly) and she said it's because it's light enough that I can see her and she feels self-conscious. At this point, in my mind, I'm thinking I've got the situation cracked. I guess I was kind of wearing a downcast expression, and she said to me really apologetically 'Don't worry, it will all be better when I've lost some weight, I'll be more liberated and I'll worry less about my body'. She either cares deeply, or she's acting and is palming me off, trying to placate me.

So, on the whole, I suppose I'm feeling positive about her dieting and perhaps regaining her confidence etc. But, in all of your opinions, should I pin any hope on this at all? What if I am disappointed in the long run? I seriously can't expect anything from her, that would be unfair.

It just seems an extremely unlikely scenario that she drops 20 lbs and suddenly she wants to let me come in her face, deepthroat me, try different positions (ha ha, getting carried away. One thing at a time, right?).

She's lost about 8-10 pounds in the last month, which I didn't even realise a human body could withstand, but thats besides the point. A major breakthrough the last weekend: She was on her period so we couldn't have sex (I keep telling her that you're not a real man until you've had blood on your sword, but she won't accept it lol), so she spontaeneously, at about 4 pm on sunday just before I was about to leave to come back here, she just pulled me forward on the sofa, dropped to her knees and gave me probably the best BJ i've ever had in my life. She hardly said a word to me and had this little smile on her face. It was one of the sexiest thing's Ive ever seen. Eye contact, lots of licking, shit, getting carried away again. Sorry.

She really is a lovely girl.

And although this is really positive, I'm still interested to post all my shit here and hear your opinions. I kinda get the feeling that it was a one off, and she did it slightly out of pity because I had to come back to my course.

In one way, it's really exciting, the prospect of her getting back to her old self. This could manifest itself in other ways; affecting the way she dresses, how often we go out, her sex drive, etc etc.

But, this probably all sounds too good to be true, which it probably is. Which is why I'm very reluctant to rely on this alone. So, opinions?

Can a woman's weight *really* have such an adverse affect on every single aspect of their personality? I'm not meaning to be chauvinstic (sp?) and sexist here, it'd be great to hear a woman's point of view.

Let me give you an analogy. Someone like me, who's relatively skinny and isn't blessed with the most 'manly' of physiques (I'm 5'11, 180lbs) suddenly says to himself one day - I'm sick of this shit and I'm going to get ripped. Women will want to fuck me, I'll get a promotion, I'll win at life!!!111one etc etc. It just doesn't happen, and this is kind of how the whole situation feels to me.

She really is such a gorgeous person, physically and psychologically. (the latter in most ways, at least!), but as I said at the beginning, why have something imperfect when you can perfect it?!

I realise that on a message board like this, you guys aren't going to get the whole picture of what she's like. You only ever hear the negative stuff, which naturally encourages you guys to suggest to me that I could do better, I just get rid of her etc etc. But please consider this situation as something to be mended, not something to be simply discarded. I think this now because I've been given some hope because of this weight thing. Thanks chinese crested!! (I still agree with you Poetry, but I'll hold off final judgement, and I'll decide what to do when I'm settled in my new career, assuming she hasn't changed).

So do you think 20lbs of flesh can make so much of a difference to someone's level of desire, and ultimately, their's and their partners overall happiness? It just doesn't seem to be realistic to me.

I still can't believe I omitted this. Sincerely, thank you for suggesting that because I hadn't even considered it as something this serious.

EDIT chinese crested, whereabouts in hampshire are you? I live in Verwood.

Poetry

Well, you found the golden path/excuse you're looking for.

And, sure, it might be a weight thing. And she might get the weight off and be a happy, sexual person.

Is she going to keep it off for the rest of her life? Through kids, as her metabolism slows, through menopause?

Maybe.

Personally, I've never seen a severe diet that worked in the long run.

I'd be more concerned about her view of herself than anything else when it comes to the relationship you have with her.

And, as someone who did once go through a major weight swing (yay for medication), your sexuality is only affected as much as you let it be. I was having the same wild, kinky sex when I was at my heaviest as I am now. It's all in her head.

But, sure, try it. Hope it works out for you. I highly suggest getting her to a therapist for her body image.

__________________
"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

Midnightskyline

I keep thinking about this therapy thing. I think it's a brilliant idea. In fact, I've taken myself to quite a few sessions over the last year or two. It's good just to vent and get outside, independent, professional opinion.

She would never do it. She'd be mortified I'd even suggested it.

She's very private, she'd probably get rid of me if she knew I was on here, simply because she'd be embarassed that all you people know our most intimate secrets. Fair enough, but if she thinks that about this message board, how is she ever going to open up the deepest depths of her psyche to a real human being, face to face?

I'd love the opportunity for her to go to therapy though. She's highly intelligent and perceptive, I'm sure she'd get a lot out of it. But unfortunately she's the kin of person who thinks that they don't need outside help and should keep things private.

Poetry

Well, you've got a girlfriend who (theoretically) hates their body so much they won't have sex with you in the day time, indulge any of your fetishes (which are so incredibly mild that I, personally, don't even consider them fetishes), or even talk with you about "dirty" sex. She makes you feel bad about your sexuality and is warping your relationship. She won't see a therapist about their issues because she's private.

It's good to know that, after three years of dating, she values her privacy more than her relationship with you.

__________________
"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

Midnightskyline

Haha, I suppose that's true.

I haven't actually mentioned to her about going to therapy, so I'm not 100% she'd say no, but it's highly likely. She'd probably say she didn't want to talk to a stranger.

Worse than that, she probably wouldn't even admit there's a problem. God, she sounds like a cold-hearted bitch doesn't she?!
What have I done!