Jetée

I wholeheartedly agree with you on that JinnKai, 's why I have quotations around "seemingly misplaced". There is no proof he used the pictures for mastubatory purposes, and if he did, it is still only a harmless fantasy that involves only one person's image an an alterior sexual escapade. Privacy is meant for all, even for those in commited relationships.
Hell, even in the process of cleaning out my porn files, I find an occasional mp3 or interesting landscape wallpaper in the files. Things get misplaced, along with feelings.

I encourage the OP to try to recover hers by rationalizing it with the only person who can help her find it.

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mixedmedia

Well, I already stated explicitly that I think there is a difference between fantasy and downloading images of friends to masturbate with.

Perhaps it is complex, but so is the dissection of much of human behavior that we all draw personal lines of demarcation on. And the line between fantasy and action here is where I draw the line.

Take for example someone who occasionally fantasizes about illicit sex with a minor. I would find the step from fantasizing about it, under the compulsion of arousal, to be different from going onto the internet to find pictures of children to save for masturbation in the future. This is my personal feeling about the difference between the two. The difference, I suppose, between the spontaneity of fantasy and the more borderline activity of staking out a fantasy involving people that you know.

In my understanding of the situation, he has not denied masturbating while looking at the photos. Has he?

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Terrell

The amount of porn a person has tends to pile up over time. Oh and the external hard drive, is useful in that it allows you to separate said porn from the computer if you share it with another person, if they are uncomfortable with porn, and to take it to the next PC when the current one dies. If one buys porn occasionally, but rarely throws any of it out (like the DVDs and Videos especially) over time one tends to accumulate lots of it. I'm 37 so there's been LOTS of time since I was 18 to have accumulated plenty of it. An existing relationship doesn't mean that the porn gets thrown away, simply means that it gets used lots less.

krwlz

A good thing to point out in a situation like this, is that most guys profusely tell their significant others whatever they want to hear (and in a 'real' relationship, this shouldn't happen) because women routinely misinterpret the things we do and say. Reading meanings into things we never even knew was there.

And honestly, no matter how much we care or think about it, we're still going to fuck up, because male and female logic is different. And we will never master a female's logic. We can create some understanding, but in the end, she will still get pissed off about something we saw as harmless, whether a friends photo, or a misplaced comment.

(As a side note, yea the guy isn't too bright to have saved them if he even had an inkling that the OP would be this upset. He should have just left them on myspace, and used them from there)

pig

yep - i'm with mixed on this. to me it demonstrates a lack of respect and a lack of manners, which is only exacerbated by the fact that it's in an area where many people are uncomfortable. yes, if a given relationship is such that these things are spoken of openly, then it might be a different situation. it might be healthier, in that open communication is present in the relationship. first of all, i don't get the feeling that the 'i'd like to fuck some of your friends in a fantasy sense' conversation has come up in this particular relationship.

secondly, i think there are a ton of things that a person's SO might think about on a daily basis, that you just don't want to hear or be reminded of. they hate your friends, they hate your family, or your parents. or maybe just find them irritating. you might be aware of it, but you don't want to hear it all the time; it's just rude. add the sensitivity that many people feel regarding their sexuality and sexual relationships, and i think it's not difficult to understand how this is rude and inconsiderate.

i also feel that there is something about the act of downloading pictures of your girlfriend's friend to jack off to shows a heightened level of desire to actually fuck them. particularly if you're doing it on the sneak-sneak. its one thing to think about fucking your girlfriend's friends...it sends a different signal that you are premeditatively thinking about fucking your girlfriends friends.

i feel fairly certain that most of the chicks i know would dump a guy who was jacking off to pictures of their friends; particularly if they hadn't discussed this sort of thing before. this girl has relationships with these other girls, the guy is definitely not showing some respect. it might seem to be a token...but i would love to see the look on some of my female friends' faces if they found out their friends' boyfriends/husbands were masturbating to pictures of them. hello 'stalker alert'.

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kutulu

Wow, this thread really shows the differences between men and women and how so few of us really understand the other sex. Fascinating.

My take:

1. I understand that the OP was upset and hurt. I believe her BF felt bad about it although most of the guilt is related to getting caught and hurting her, not the act itself.

2. The thing about most guys is that we fantasize about screwing everyone. For me, she doesn't even need to be that hot, she may just have one feature about her that is appealing to me. Throughout the years I've had plenty of thoughts about my wife's sister, friends, acquaintances, etc. and just as many about people I know and have worked with. That's just how we are built. That little dress your friend wears? Yeah we'll look to see if we can see up it and then we'll think about it later. If you can't handle it, become a lesbian.

3. Regardless, I do understand my wife and although I'm sure she knows I've thought those things about people we know, I know enough to not discuss it with her. It would be awesome if I could but I don't see it working out well.

krwlz

One more comment, I've routinely told friends of mine that they're new girlfriend is "fuckin smoking tonight". Always with the disclaimer "no offense" and to date, not one of them has taken offense. They know all guys appreciate beauty, and take it as a compliment, cuz after all, that's their girlfriend that I just complimented, and they take it as "Damn man, you did good/ got lucky with that one. Congrats"

I realize that was somewhat off topic, but it does give a little insight into how guys think.

hambone

I think it is creepy. But I also know that my wife would feel bad if I were to do something like this.

Is it really all that important to figure out who the consensus thinks was in the wrong or being irrational here? It obviously affected the OP enough to have her bottle it up and stew on it for months, so that is the important part for me. It bothered her, so therefore, to respect those feelings, he shouldn't do it.

And I don't think he has done it again since, so this to me is just another learning experience about each other for this couple. Some of you obviously can handle such things and don't experience jealousy from or feelings of inadequacy from some thing. Congratulations, that is great. Others do have offense at things like this. This is also just fine. People vary. Now he knows and can act accordingly.

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krwlz

Agreed. Now he nows better. But I really think that with any action, the intent is as important as the action, if not more so. Can anyone claim they really thought this dude intended to hurt the OP with his actions?

xepherys

Wow, this is quite a thread! Honestly, I don't think it's a huge deal. I'm virtually sure that my wife has masturbated thinking of other guys she knows, maybe a friend of mine, maybe of hers, maybe just some guy she knows. Maybe a guy she works with. Who knows? You know what? Good for her! I love my wife and my wife loves me. We are very happily married. I honestly believe that part of that happiness is a pretty healthy lack of jealousy. If I caught my wife cheating on me (or vice versa) shit would hit the fan. Outside of that, masturbation, fantasy, and even harmless flirting are all part of human sexuality.

So, to those women (and men) who have said this is utterly unacceptable, do you harbor a likely false belief that your SO has never fantasized about someone they or you know? Is it only because a picture was involved that this is such a serious issue for you? Hell, I've jerked off thinking of all kinds of girls in the past, and while currently my fantasies are generally of my wife (hell, she's hot), another girl sneaks in there now and then. This doesn't mean that I would ever, EVER act on those... that's why they are fantasies. I have fantasies about my own wife that I would likely never act on. *shrug* What's the big deal?

As for loss of self confidence, I agree with several who have posted that nobody can MAKE you feel like crap. It's all up to you. 100%! If you choose to feel like crap about yourself because of someone else's actions, inactions or words, that is solely on you.

Lastly, I also agree about the privacy thing. I would never read my wife's emails or snoop about through her laptop. It's hers! I don't even open her mail, even bills in her name, unless I was told we needed to pay it ASAP when it came. I respect my wife's privacy absolutely, and therein lies a level of trust that is important, if not mandatory, for a good relationship.

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Terrell

It prevents an argument. Some women just don't like the idea of guys having porn. That doesn't mean that she's not otherwise a good woman to be with, but it's something where a man and a woman may have to agree to disagree. Keeping it out of her sight, in such a situation is a compromise between keeping it out in the open and viewing it openly (which may offend her), and having to either get rid of it, or not view it at all (which I don't want to do).

Only things that get hard drive space, are the things I see and like enough to save, much porn that I see online doesn't get saved. Over time (years) though it does tend to accumulate. It's the stuff I saw and liked enough to want to look again, without having to find it again. Especially if the site that it was on, is down the next time one wants to look at a particular item.

Plan9

So... how hard is it to get rid of your proverbial porn pile (and not store it), but instead simply peruse it when you feel frisky?

You can always get more porn. Unlike relationships... those aren't that easy.

...

(shrugs)

Porn is like cigarettes and BDSM... you don't need it. You just want it.

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mixedmedia

Good thing about BDSM, though, is that you want to share it with those that you love.

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PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Terrell

If by, get rid of it, you mean throw it out, (rather than simply put it away) then it's not there when I feel like perusing it. When I'm not using it, I don't throw it away, but I do put it away. I don't leave my porn lying around my apartment. I probably could go through some of my older stuff that I barely watch anymore and decide to get rid of some of it though. I have occasionally done that.

I agree that getting more porn is easier than getting new relationships, but I don't think that I should have to settle for either, if it's possible to have both.

I don't want cigs or BDSM either, but I do like to look at porn, and don't like to throw things that are still serviceable out. So if I get a tape or a DVD I usually don't throw it out when I'm done with it (unless it sucks) instead I put it away with my other porn.

Plan9

I'll have you know I'm an expert at single-handed self-pleasing. Totally comes from being in the desert and not seeing a woman for what amounts to a jillion years.

Ya know... maybe I'm beating off wrong or something, but I just don't have the desire to sock away little porn acorns to hit up like a hungry squirrel later.

I travel light.

...

I need to come up with a main idea or something, I know... but this whole concept of "Porn Cache" is confusing the hell out of me... as a single guy.

I mean... should I have one? What? Damn, I better get started.

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Sultana

I have to say I think this is rather telling. Not to pick on JinnKai, it's just that he's the one who said this.

I also notice that the OP has not returned with a further update beyond the first. That's too bad.

Overall, I have to say that I find the general male consensus of "anything goes" in a fantasy, and what fuels a fantasy, to be disappointing. But I suppose that can be somewhat chalked up to the differences between men and women.

I'm a woman. The action posted in the OP would piss me off. If you don't like it, become a homosexual.

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kutulu

touche

mixedmedia

Sultana's statement here keyed me into something that's been, ehhhh, rubbing me the wrong way about the staunch defenders on this thread - and that is the sanctimonious attitude towards preserving an aura of purity and righteousness around this guy's actions. I mean, all the irony of that observation aside, the issue seems to be more about not giving an inch on masturbatory priveleges rather than discussing what this guy did. Kind of like the pro-gun folks and their gun rights.

When really, and I think I speak for most of the detractors on this thread, this is not about pornography or fantasy or masturbation but about the (and this is my preferred word - there are others) propriety of this situation in particular.

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PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

SecretMethod70

Or find a woman who isn't pissed off by it

It's been well-established in this thread that, generally speaking, men think one thing about this while women think another (there are, of course, exceptions). It is very unfair to claim that one or the other is more right, and attempting to do so is the kind of thing that is bound to lead to unhappiness. Relationships don't work by asserting one's own view on the other person, they work by communicating and learning to understand where the other person is coming from. That means that, yes, the boyfriend should have thought more about the possible effects of his actions, but it also means that she needs to at least try and understand his viewpoint about all this. Neither side has the right to deny how the other feels. They can only acknowledge it, learn to understand it as best they can, and deal with it. The boyfriend needs to acknowledge that she is upset by this (which, it seems, he has) and do what he can to address that. But, she also needs to acknowledge that his mind deals with fantasy differently than hers and that masturbating to pictures of her friends was not a referendum on her. It was simply a fantasy, because - as others have said - guy's fantasize about having sex with pretty much everyone. It is only by working to meet in the middle - focusing on how each other feels, and not focusing on creating judgments about what is right and wrong and what each other should feel - that a relationship is going to have any success.

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Elitegibson

I guess we as men should all learn that we can only masturbate to women who are obviously uglier than our significant other. Otherwise we're in for a world of hurt.

Women need to understand that masturbation isn't emotional for men. It's mechanical. We look at anything that'll get us hard long enough to take care of business. We're not constructing elaborate fantasies with the ladies in the pictures.

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abaya

It's already been said, by people wiser than me. Off the top of my head, Mixed and Pig said it best. Xepherys and the rest of you using similar lines of argument... it's NOT about the guy masturbating while *thinking* of her friends. It's not even about porn in general. I, for one, am fine with both of those actions, and see them as very normal.

It's about the PICTURES OF HER FRIENDS. The fact that he took them, saved them, and pulls them up specifically when he wants to masturbate... would give me very, very serious pause in terms of deciding to continue the relationship. Total lack of consideration. And I don't care what gender you are... you can think about whoever you want when you masturbate, I know I do (and I don't give a rats ass who my husband is thinking about)... but the fucking pictures, are just beyond any reasonable modicum of courtesy and respect towards your significant other.

Ktspktsp and I were discussing this last night and he agrees, he would be upset if I was masturbating using pics of his best friends in Speedos, definitely... and he understands why I would be upset if he was doing the same. It's just plain inconsiderate. Discuss it first, before he even "used" the pictures for the first time... then go from there. That's what develops trust in a relationship. Not this kind of behavior, not by a long shot.

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mixedmedia

Yay, for your team.

I rest my case.

Masturbation, apparently, is a very sticky issue for some folks in more ways than one.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

The_Jazz

Ever fantasized about someone else while having sex with your SO?

What if they were pictures of her friends but he didn't know who they were (for argument's sake - obviously not really the case here)? What if he downloaded them off TFP from the Titty Board?

How would it change things if the girl is a celebrity and he's got pictures of her friends from the tabloids?

What if she's got a bunch of porn star friends who's pictures are all over the internet? What if they're Craigslist prostitutes who regularly turn tricks with guys he knows?

These are all degrees of the same issue. Some are degrees of separation and some are acceptance.

My first post-collegiate relationship was with a bisexual sorority girl that thought a bunch of her friends were hot. We'd have mutual masturbation sessions with her sorority yearbook discussing who and how we'd seduce into a 3-way.

I completely agree that this is odd and that this guy should probably be on double-secret probation at best as far as this relationship is concerned, but I also think part of the problem with reaching a consensus comes from the fact that to whom and when guys jerk off is a moving target. For instance, is David Arquette, who's married to Courtney Cox, allowed to fantasize about being with Jennifer Aniston while he's having sex with Courtney? What about when he's jerking off? Can he use red carpet pictures? Clips from The Good Girl?

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Infinite_Loser

I still don't see the difference between searching the internet for random pictures of women to jack off to and searching the internet for pictures of your friends to jack off to. As hard as I try, I just can't think of anything 'inconsiderate' about it (Unless, of course, you're stating that it's not okay to jack off to people whom you know which still doesn't make much sense to me).

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james t kirk

You da man.

I don't have time to read all of these posts, I only made it as far as the above.

By and by, if the rest of the relationship is good, I would recommend that you put it behind you. If he's a good guy, then cut him a break.

I really doubt too many men would dump a woman if she was doing the same.

Men are like that. We fantasize about all kinds of wierd shit all the time. We want to cum on your face, we want to be tied up and have you step on our bags in high heels. We want you to wear a strapon and fuck us in the ass, and give us a golden shower. We want to fuck your sister, your friends, your mother even (if she was hot). And that's on a quiet day.

If he's a good guy and treats you well and you are happy most of the time, you'd be making a mistake dealing him the nine of spades.

If you are going to continue to bust his balls about this for years to come, then he might be wise to get the hell out rather than listen to it forever.

You've made your point, now let it go and see how things go.

What were you doing rooting through his computer anyway?

SecretMethod70

More to the point, I doubt he went to their myspace pages thinking "I wonder if there are pictures here that I can masturbate to?" He likely went to their myspace pages, saw the pictures, thought "gee, that one turns me on," and then saved them. I think a lot of people in this thread are attributing a malice aforethought that just isn't (likely) there.

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hambone

Isn't it malice aforethought ?

sorry, my wife is gonna be a lawyer

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ktspktsp

Wow, the gender divide is really interesting on this thread. Pretty fascinating. I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I don't know if this has been posted. But here's a slightly-not-on-topic point I would like to make.

Masturbating to pictures of people can create an attachment to those people. This is not much of a problem with porn (since the women are basically pictures there), but can be an issue when you know and interact with those women. Since you know them as 3-d people, the more you think and fantasize about them, the more you fall for them. I'm not saying you have to prevent yourself from fantasizing about anybody when you're in a relationship, but you should be careful not to get yourself too tempted... It's not healthy for your relationship, and it's not really about how great the other person is but rather how much you allow yourself to build them up in your head.

I remember a post in the past from Ratbastid (the truth, he speaks) where he said that to stop feeling attached to an ex-gf, he stopped fantasizing about her when masturbating, and that helped a lot. Something about bonding chemicals being released when orgasming.

Again, nothing wrong with fantasizing or masturbating, but it's good to be careful about unnecessary attachments. That goes for friends, friends of the GF, co-workers etc... Everything in moderation!

SecretMethod70

indeed. not exactly a phrase I use frequently thanks for letting me know.

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Le temps détruit tout

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Cynthetiq

What? No Donkey Punch? No Angry Pirate? No Dirty Sanchez???

Seriously though, not to tu quoque, but why search for stuff? I mean do you really want to know the answer to those questions? Seems like one makes their own drama.

Still even if they have access to this 3D person, and even if that sexy friend makes advances towards him, isn't his response still supposed to be to decline action to sticking it in or cavorting and canoodling with them?

I'd be more than happy to jump all over some of the lady friends I have or even Skogafoss' friends but the buck stops at the thought. The moment it becomes action is where there is a problem.

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kutulu

IMO there are things that both guys and girls can draw from this thread to help us out.

Girls:

Men are horny fuckers who think about banging everyone. You shouldn't be surprised to find out that your SO thinks about your best friend when you two are having sex or when he's jerking off.

Guys:

Most girls just aren't comfortable with the fact that we want to bang their friends (even if we wouldn't actually do it). Therefore, we need to be discrete about it and not do stupid things like d/l pics of your chick's friends and not hide them REALLY well.

Baraka_Guru

I try not to laugh whenever I hear this. You mean to tell me that certain men will cry while watching a football game, but they are like machines when it comes to an intimate act that invariably ends in a kind of euphoria?

Sex in humans in inherently emotional; it's how we are hardwired. It makes us happy. It bonds us. It emboldens us. It makes us feel guilty. It makes us afraid. We have been known to kill over it. I sincerely doubt you can turn this off simply because you are flying solo.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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Glory's Sun

I guess in all of this it all boils down to the fact that people have to communicate and find the person that is right for them. Thankfully, me and my wife can differenciate the difference between pure fantasy and masturbation and sex with emotions.

krwlz

Id slightly disagree. Why do you think so many men can actively look for a one-night stand? And that's far more intimate than rubbing one out. I'd say that most men, once the clean up is over, don't ever think about the masturbatory experience ever again. At least until the next time they rub one out.

Menoman

I would say thats why you ladies are never going to see our point on this one.

If you can't understand that is how it really is, you won't understand why this really isn't a big deal to a guy.

Trust me though, it goes both ways, if I had to make beating off an emotional experience I would be doing it about once a month.

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canuckguy

i can see why she is upset. I think it was pretty dumb to save the pictures to his porn folder. Not sure i would do something like that, sure i might venture to the persons pics online and maybe tug one off.

But saving them to my computer? nope, not sure why either just because i guess. If this guy knows his girlfriend has self esteem issues double douche bag.



I put the porn right out in the open on the desktop of my computer, let her see it. heck i'll even tag it and leave a message saying something naught.

Frosstbyte

To further the "what does masturbation mean to men" threadjack, I have to third (fourth, fifth?) the sentiments by others who have noted that it's really not an emotional experience for a guy. Many guys (myself certainly included) just feel an impetus to do it, and often. I can't even imagine thinking of masturbation as being as emotional an experience as sex. It's just something we do and we dont' spend any time thinking about it. It's a rush and then it's over.

That being said, I think that downloading pictures off myspace and etc. is a bit over the line than I think is appropriate. But I can all but assure you that it's not an emotional event for the guy.

Baraka_Guru

Thank you for agreeing to disagree. Men do one-night stands because they desire intimacy but are afraid of (or are otherwise opposed to) long-term commitments. This goes back to my previous post about emotional responses to sexual experiences. Masturbatory experiences are seldom memorable because they are numerous for many of us. That doesn't mean they aren't influenced by emotions. (Continue reading, if you will.)

So why do we do it nearly everyday? Are you're saying you don't get any pleasure from it?

And... how would you explain that "rush"? Do you enjoy it? Does it make you happy and put you in a good mood? We are one of the few animals who enjoy sex for pleasure. Our sexual drives are linked to our emotional being...they are closely related if not being part of the same system. The thing about emotions is that we don't think about them; that would be counterintuitive. I think the problem here is that most men deny their emotional states. The stereotype that men don't think things through...do you think that's because of an absence of reason? Maybe. But I think it is because of emotional states that cloud reason, rather. Want to know what I'm talking about? Read some articles on depression in men as a start. Pretty scary, actually. I can direct you to some, if you like.

Back to the OP, this is why there is such a problem. The fact that her boyfriend "cranked it up a notch" by having actual photos of her friends is a really hurtful thing to do. It is that step closer to a form of direct desire for those women. How does he handle himself when he's around them after having masturbated to them using their realistic likenesses? Would it also be okay if they were photographs of her mother? His mother? They aren't "just photos." You shouldn't oversimplify.

[BTW, all those puns really were unintentional. Consciously speaking anyway.]

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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MrFriendly

Baraka_Guru when I take over the world and form my round table of rulers, you're on the table. Actually, fuck that, you are the table. The rest of us will just sit around an listen.

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