yotta

My girlfriend of about 3 years is thinking about leaving me partly because she doesn't want to have kids with me years down the road (there is a high probability that such kids would be autistic). She says that she feels that it would be unethical to use donor sperm (either from a sperm bank or from a friend... the latter I can agree is a potential disaster). I've told her that I would be okay with that, but that doesn't seem to be the problem. She's not sure why she thinks it would be unethical.

I'm not sure how to respond to this concern. Thoughts? Especially from the women on here....

I want to emphasize again, I'm okay with adopting or using donor sperm.

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Dilbert1234567

I'd say no, if she is concerned, both you 2 need to get to a doctor and discuss this with them, there may be options you don't know about.

there are many kids without parents, adoption is certainly an ethical choice.

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PredeconInferno

I think it's a ridiculous reason to break up with someone. If she wants kids, that's fine. There are SO MANY children that need to be adopted - that deserve to have normal lives in this world. I think it's clearly an unethical decision to break up with someone because they MAY have a child that is less than what the status quo says is a good child.

Y'know what, it's your kid - that means it's the most beautiful child in the world. Does it matter if the child is autistic? or blind? what about deaf? maybe they can't read as early as other children? maybe they need to wear leg braces because they have a bad spine? I think I've made my point.

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World's King

I'm not really sure how I feel about this.


I'm not gonna have kids for a few reasons.

1) There are too many unwanted children in this world.
2) I'm too much of a sociopath to actually raise a child.
3) I'm too selfish to spend that much time with someone else.
4) They smell bad.


I don't wanna pass any of these things onto another generation.

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The_Jazz

In my opinion, the underlying message here is that she cares more about her potential children than you and isn't willing to compromise what she thinks is a "normal" life with her love for you.

In other words, good ridance to bad rubbish. There are lots of alternatives available - see above.

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little_tippler

I agree with The_Jazz. She wants to have kids, the "normal" way, without the threat of having a child with a disability over her head. She doesn't like you enough to abdicate that, and consider tougher and more altruistic options such as adoption or sperm from someone else. I wouldn't condemn her, but I don't think it's a particularly nice reason to break up with someone. Let her go if that's what she wants.

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Redlemon

It seems that her desire for a healthy child from her own body is stronger than her desire for you. It is possible that there are other reasons that she has for breaking up, but wants to go with the one that is "not your fault" to save your feelings.

(edit: looks like Tippler had the same thing to say while I was still typing.)

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Seaver

I'm sorry, I love the idea of adopting. I've had many friends and a few girlfriends who's lives were saved or changed by being adopted. That being said, I want at least one child of my own loins. All of you who say otherwise I honestly dont know if I believe it's the truth. We all want to see a child of our own means, it's genetically assured that we get those emotions.

Is it wrong for her to break up with you because of a high probability of autism? Sure, but is it any more wrong than not liking a guy because he's short? Or not liking a girl because she has an unusually large nose? How about someone who's genetically pre-disposed to being obese?

Now ask yourself if you've ever avoided a relationship with someone because of those reasons, or the infinite other excuses people use. Yes she's wrong, but I'd bet money you wouldn't be able to throw the first stone.

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JustJess

Hey, I wouldn't make that choice myself... but evidently for her, this is a deal breaker. Happens all the time. So it's not invalid per se, just not what (evidently) most of us would do.

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Ourcrazymodern?

I don't get it again. Reproduction shouldn't come before love and love conquers all.

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tecoyah

In a nutshell....she does not love you enough to accept you as you are, and wants to keep looking for some imaginary perfection that will make her life complete. Ethical....perhaps, but its also an indication of what the future may be like with her.

I would likely cut the losses, and be happier in the long run.

Hektore

What you want out of life is what you want out of life. Nobody is going to see to it that you're happy but you. If she decides she can't be happy without having her own children without the risk of autism she is perfectly entitled to go try and make that happen. She needs to decide what is more important to her, you or her ideal reproductive future. Ethical or unethical doesn't really matter, it's not going to work anyway if it makes her truly unhappy.

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MageB420666

I wouldn't say that bad genetics is an "ethical" reason to break up. Mainly because the reasons stated rely on probability. There may be an increased risk for you to have a kid with autism, but its not a guarantee. And how is hooking up with a new guy to have kids different than using donor sperm? Its still some other guy's baby batter cooking in her oven.

Plus, based upon her reasoning, she shouldn't be having kids anyways. Bringing a child into the world is the worst thing you can do to it! Why you are ensuring that it will die! May as well kill the kid now and save it some wasted time and trouble.... /end sarcasm.... sort of

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abaya

Seaver has some excellent points here. While I frown on the idea of a person breaking up with someone just because of genetic deficiencies, you might say that variations on that theme happen on a regular basis.

I think there are ethical ways to actually *break up* with someone (e.g. do it in person, not via e-mail or texting), but I don't know how much one can apply "ethics," per se, to *reasons* for breaking up. If you don't see yourself being happy with a person for the long-term, whether for genetic reasons (including their appearance or physical abilities) or personality (which could also be said to be partially determined by genetics), then isn't it really *more* ethical to break it off sooner, instead of carrying on with a charade of being altruistic and all-loving while being miserable inside?

We are all "shallow" creatures in some ways... even though we're supposed to be the highest form of animal life, we're still animals. Animals choose their mates based on genetic criteria (as manifested through physical appearance or performance). I'm not saying it's right, but it's a biological fact, and sometimes it's better to be honest about our preferences instead of pretending they don't exist.

Consider yourself lucky that it happened now instead of 20 years down the road...

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Sultana

Just because she may bear babies with someone else doesn't mean they are free from the risk of autism. Wouldn't that be a kicker!

I can understand if she wants to have a family. I can understand (in an intellectual way) if she wants to have the experience of birthing her own baby. However, I don't see how in the world she can say that using a sperm donor is unethical, and to be honest, if she can't even explain it to herself, much less to you, yet is willing to consider chucking what is otherwise a good relationship (I presume), then I'd consider that to be a very shabby excuse to break up.

Adoption is a wonderful thing, but not if the parent doesn't consider that child to be as much a part of them as a child born from their own flawless genetic compounds.

And you know what? You don't want to "talk" or reason or logic someone into staying with you.

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surferlove007

I have an aunt that actually had this problem also, she had something that would cause her babies to come out not quite normal so she opted to not have children. They seem perfectly happy and they made their cats their babies.They also spoil their nieces (my sister and I) so I think the road less traveled without children for them was the better option with less pain and difficulty. There's nothing wrong with not having babies, like Sultana said adoption is a wonderful thing and there are so many unwanted children now it would probably be a good compromise if the need for a family was dire equally amongst you two.

Personally I don't know if I want kids, probably not.
I'd like to be a career woman and get myself established before focusing on reproducing. I want to live in a big city with 500 dollar shoes and suits and make money. Sounds like fun. Oh and have a house in the Rockies and the Smokies.

Kids are expensive, messy, and ungreatful until a certain age for the most part. I often wonder how my parents did it without screwing my sis and I up permanently.

Think hard before making a decision. She probably already knows what she wants to do, y'all just need to figure it out and get everything out in the open if you're serious about spending your lives together, which is a beautiful thing.
Good luck

pig

yotta,

i'm riffing off that chat we had a while back, if you recall it, but in addition to what i've seen posted here and that discussion, i'm guessing that this is part of a continuing issue y'all have been having. i can't speak to the "validity" of what she's feeling; emotions aren't things to be "invalidated" in my opinion. my point is that this issue isn't happening in a vacuum. someone posted that this might just be an issue she can pick out for focus, because it seems less personal. its not *you*, but its the potential for autistic children. i think there's probably some validity to that.

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yotta

I'm quite sure that she's being honest about her reason. She said she'd stay with me if there was a way to ensure non-autistic children, or if she was sterile. I think this is monumentally cruel and fucked up. It's something I have no way to ever change. Totally powerless. If she really loves me it shouldn't matter. I feel dehumanized.

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analog

So she's saying if SHE were unable to have kids, that would be fine with her and she'd stay with you, but if YOU are the one she believes shouldn't have children... that's not ok?

You're right, that's fucked up. Also, it doesn't sound like it's the only issue... it's like when couples stop having sex, and they're wondering why the sex has decreased... the effect you feel is not always directly linked to the cause. In other words, she may be having other issues she's unwilling to discuss with you, and is instead looking for an out. Saying it would be fine if she were sterile is a nonsense statement, since she isn't.

Sultana

Well, it's best if she's honest about her desires for her life. But I still don't understand what she has against getting other sperm for future babies. I'd be wanting clarification on that, myself.

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Dilbert1234567

you just need to find your self a house husband... (shyly raises hand)

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Carno

Seaver is right. We all have our deal breakers, and I guess the high risk of having autistic children is a deal breaker for her. Would be for me as well, although I wouldn't be opposed to adopting.

How did yall find out that your kids are a high risk for being autistic?

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yotta

I have a mild form high-functioning autism. I'm very smart (genius level) but have difficulty with social interactions. For example, I find it very uncomfortable to maintain eye contact, and have to pay very close attention to pick up on body language type stuff. I've learned how to work around most of my issues, so it's not like I can't get a job, have friends, go to parties, etc.

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abaya

What you have sounds like Asperger's, which isn't always passed down to children. I mean, there are so many ways for kids to be born autistic, and not all of them have to do with parents being carriers (I have a cousin who has Asperger's, genius like you, and I WANT him to have children someday... because why the hell not?). It just happens sometimes, just like many other things that people are born with. I mean, were your parents autistic? And who cares if you ARE autistic, as long as you are a functioning, loving, productive adult? I just don't see Asperger's as any kind of disability, at least not one that can't be overcome with a lot of work, as you have done. If she holds that against you, then that is her problem, and you definitely DON'T want to be with someone like that.

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yotta

Asperger's syndrome is what I've been diagnosed with. I didn't see any point in naming it, because most people haven't heard of it.

Heritability is high, and we both have some form of ADHD.

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Atropos4

I somewhat understand the not wanting to pass down the syndrome. Bringing a baby into the world that will have to struggle and suffer is just not something I would do. Does it make me a bad person? In my eyes no.
Probably a good thing I cannot have kids. Different conditions and diseases tend to pop up in my family and it's just unfair to a child to put it through that.
When we found out I will likely never have children Alpha phi stuck by me. Never even considered leaving. We decided we are far to selfish to have children anyways. I guess he could be saying that to spare my feelings but either way he stayed because he loves me.

Like Sultana though, I do not understand why a sperm donor is out of the question. Really it just sounds like she is coming up with a way out.

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yotta

I don't know. I think she's telling the truth about it being a dealbreaker for her.

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stevie667

You said partly because of the autism risk, is there something else?

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The_Jazz

And there it is then. She has her personal comfort zones, just like everyone else here. Just because she doesn't want to adopt or use a sperm donor doesn't make her a bad person. It may make her shallow, and it may make her selfish (in my opinion, both), but not necessarily a bad person. I don't see anything wrong with telling that to a significant other early in the relationship, but I do when you've put 3 years in.

To quote Dan Savage - DTMFA. You deserve better. She's made that abundantly clear.

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abaya

Jazz said it much better than I did... there's nothing morally wrong with what she's done (especially as you are not engaged or married yet), but it is selfish. That's what human beings are, sometimes.

You're free of her. Look at it that way. Move on, and be glad for the chance to find *real* love.

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pig

well, i still think there's more to this story than the gf simply not wanting autistic children. as y'all are stating, that was a known a while back, i'd think. i personally think that in this case, like the demise of most relationships, its the culmination of many things, over a period of years. and then one day bam! its not that you don't hang up your laundry, its just the proverbial matchstick. she's says its the fear of possible autistic children, but she's thinking "you make me touch your hands for stupid reasons." i think that if things have been strained for a long time, and then you throw something like this into the mix...time to go. and i certainly agree that a statement which essentially says "i don't want a child like you" is a terribly negating statement that i wouldn't personally want to live with.

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Carno

How does not wanting autistic children make one shallow?

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The_Jazz

By itself, absolutely nothing. But she's not willing to consider other alternatives to lessen (not eliminate) the risk like a sperm donor or adoption. And that makes her shallow.

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Carno

Ahh, okay. I guess I just wouldn't really call that shallow, but I understand what you mean.

So much with this doesn't make sense.. I also kinda think she is using the autistic thing as a reason to jump ship.

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highthief

Of course it is, IMO. People feel the way they feel, trying to change that or say it's wrong is futile.

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PredeconInferno

I really like this statment that Hektore made. The decision is ultimately her's despite what you have to say about it.

Given what you've told us after this point, I feel like you would be better of without her. She has dishonored you by saying that you may not be a 'worthy' person because of a social disorder that may, or may not manifest (in varying degrees of severity). My best friend's little brother has the same condition, and it can be aggrivating, but it's definitely something that can be dealt with.

She has shown you a great amount of disrespect by telling you that she would stay with you if she were baren. To me this reads, "I'm more worthy of having children than you" Which I interpret as a grave dishonor. It's not about worth... and life has never been about worthiness.

I'm going to stop before I get too angry.

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Nimetic

A complex situation.

I don't think there's any philospher that would have argued that once you're with somebody, you must stay with them (I'm ignoring marriage, but I'm assuming that you aren't).

Ultimately, it's her choice. It might cause you pain - but it is not causing anything worse than that.

But I agree, I cannot see anything "wrong" with using donor sperm. Odd that she does.

tenniels

Would have an kid with Autism be the most horrible thing in the world? This is one of those things that is really really hard for me to understand. People want perfect kids. I work with people with disabilities and also my youngest brother has special needs. I hate all these tests people have done, for example to determine if a child would have Downs Syndrome. Yes these children can be a lot more work, but the reward in my opinion outweighs the extra work. I really don't want kids, mostly because I think the world is too fucked to raise kids anymore and I'm selfish. But I do think that I would like to adopt a baby with Downs Syndrome or something like that, because I know the rewards and could probably deal with it better than a so called "normal" child. I don't know, this reply doesn't make a lot of sense, but I believe that if you're going to have a kid, you do it and get what you get, ya know? I personally feel your girlfriends excuse is lame and may be a guise for another issue. What is unethical about sperm donors, adoption, etc. I think if she wants children and she wants them with you, she will find a way to make it happen. Or accept the possiblity that if you were to have a biological child it may not be "perfect".

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