tiltedbc

Ok. I'm seeing this amazing Argentine woman, both looks and intelligence. We were introduced through a friend and have gone out twice.

My story. I'm single and interested in having a sort relationship with a local woman. I'm totally honest about my plans, or lack of them. I'll stay in the city until Jan and then travel through the south down to the tip of south america. When I come back here, I may stay or fly back to Canada.

Her story is that she broke up with her boyfriend two months ago after a 2 and a half year relationship. She mentions that she picks the wrong men... and I don't ask for details. She wants to know about my past relationships and why they ended, or so it seemed over dinner.

When I paid for dinner on the second date, she offered to pay me back by taking me sailing on her boat. There's a river closeby that is easy to cross to get to a large island. It's popular to go there for the beaches along the river.

The problem is... she won't kiss me on the lips or show emotion. She says it's because she's still not over her last boyfriend and needs time. She wants to go slow.

I'll go sailing with her and see how that goes but I'm wondering how long it's going to take for this woman to accept a new guy. What's my best approach, other than to just be myself and not hit on her at all. Not even an attempt at a kiss?

Bill O'Rights

She says she's not ready.


Believe her.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Glory's Sun

How long will it take?? Only she knows.

The more pressure you add the longer it will take and you may never get to the promised land.

little_tippler

She may really not be ready. But...

For me it's always been more honest to say, there is no right time. When you meet someone, things click together. Maybe not straight away, sometimes that can be gradual.

Well look at me, last time I got involved with someone, I was telling them I wasn't ready...then they kissed me and I forgot all about being ready.

It may just be that you don't make things click, though she may enjoy your company. Or...what she's been through may have been so painful that she really has some issues to deal with first. Since you met her in the middle of this, I'd say it's unlikely you will be her "lover" any time soon...perhaps you're in the "friend zone"?

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Cynthetiq

It's like a tootsie pop....

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AHKbbv7k88Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AHKbbv7k88Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

so you just wait and be patient.

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Kaliena

It doesn't really sound like an issue. You have to wait until she's ready and let her give the sign.

__________________
~Beware the waffle~

Lasereth

Sounds to me like you're the intellectual whore or the cuddle bitch of the relationship, explained in detail at The Ladder Theory's website. Anytime a girl says "I'm not ready" or "I don't want a boyfriend right now" it simply means she likes you as an interesting person, not as an intimate partner.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

MageB420666

Not necessarily. Emotions can be a very mixed up thing for anyone. She simply may still be in love with her ex and in the process of putting him emotionally in her past.

Although having said that, I'd have to say for this particular situation it seems like you have found yourself a friend, not a lover.

__________________
Apathy: The best outlook this side of I don't give a damn.

Seaver

The ladder theory was devised by a man who hates women after being put on the friends list too often, yet has no idea about the inner workings of women (in my opinion).

If this woman is beautiful, intelligent, and wealthy enough to own her own boat she has men throwing themselves at her. Just take your time, do not pressure her in any way and you will stand out among everyone else. Then, when the moment is right, pull her in tight while looking her in the eye, and plant one on her.

__________________
"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

Willy

All it means is she's not inviting you out to the boat for some hot sex on the deck, which you might assume on an invitation like that. Go have fun on the boat, and just see what her body language tells you. If she's still "not ready" after a few more dates, then maybe she's just not into you but it's too soon to assume anything like that.

tiltedbc

An update: I talked to another Argentine girl and she told me this is normal behaviour here. After ending a long and intense relationship, a woman can go into a period of mourning of sorts. They write tango songs about these dramatic moments in life. Older women also don't want to look too easy at first etc..

After listening to how things have gone so far, my argentine friend thinks things are going great and that I need to keep meeting with this woman, taking her out to cafes and dinner to talk about anything except the ex-boyfriend. It's my job to get her mind on other things. It's super cheap to date here btw; a steak dinner for the two of us cost 40 pesos with tip, which is about $13 USD. A bottle of Mendoza wine is about $3. I could go on...

I should also mention that it was her that invited me to go out for dinner for the second date. There's no doubt she's interested in me, just maybe not on a physical level yet. She might also have other guys after her since honestly, every guy watched her walk into the restaurant with me.

Still haven't been out on the boat yet but it's supposed to happen soon. She has to take a day off work and prepare the boat etc...

Anyway.. she called me last weekend and invited me along with her girl friend to go to the local beach. While we were on the Bus heading out to the beach, we met up with a casual friend of hers who also had a friend along. We all ended up sitting together on the beach and although my spanish is limited, I managed to chat with this new girl for most of the time (besides the woman I went with). While on the Bus ride back into the city and standing in a packed Bus, I got the new girl to enter her info into my phone, which she was happy to do.

Long story short, I messaged the new girl and set up a date on sunday, and we went to see a movie and then eat. This one IS interested in me and it went well (very kissable) despite the language barrier. Of course she asked me about the first woman and I told her she's just a friend for now. No doubt the first woman will ask who this new girl is the next time we're together. I could see her watching me while we were at the beach as I practiced saying "I don't have a girlfriend". This in front of about 5 single women in bikinis sitting with us.

The woman and the girl don't know each other so I'll keep in contact with both. Sent both of them text messages saying I enjoyed spending time with them and like them. They both replied with warm feelings. The original woman says she things we're good we're very agreeable.

All of this in spanish although the first woman speaks english very well. She also has an amazing ass. Haha. I'll go on the boat with her and play it cool. When it comes down to an intimate moment I'll just lead a little bit and see where it goes. If we're just friends, no problemo.

My thoughts exactly.

Thanks for the advice. I'll update if something actually works out.

Sharon

Just curious to find out if anything has happened in the past week or so... by the way I think you are doing the right thing by not attaching yourself too strongly to one woman, and by dating other women until there is some measure of commitment.

abaya

That is not true, from my own personal experience. I was very interested in a person as an intimate partner, many years ago, but was still healing from a difficult break-up when we developed a strong interest in each other. However, he did not like being told that I "wasn't ready," (even though I liked him very much at the time, simply was not in the mood for a rebound), and within a month or so, he had made moves on another girl and ended up marrying her a few years later (and then divorcing, a few more years down the road). He told me once that he regretted that we never had the chance to date, but... c'est la vie. He wasn't very patient, in the end, and in the long run I think it was good that he wasn't willing to wait for me to heal up properly. At least I'm not the divorced one, now!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

tiltedbc

An update of sorts:
I'm seeing her again tonight. She called and invited me to a local nightclub with a couple of her friends. This is another good sign here in Argentina, since getting approval of friends is important. Also the fact that she keeps asking me out. I saw her on the street the other day and walked her to her work while we talked. Kept it all very friendly and just tried to give her the impression that I like her, which of course, I do.

Took some photos of her and I after we got back from the beach last week and will give her prints of those tonight as a present. Maybe a rose as well. I'm just relaxing and taking it as it comes. Tonight may be the turning point or maybe it won't. While my feeling towards her a sexual, I'd also be happy just seeing her get over the past a little bit. How very "nice guy" of me...

I plan on asking her about New Year's and what she's doing. I'll only go out with her if there's romance though and will likely tell her that tonight. My question is "do you want something old, or something new?". The something old is her ex-boyfriend, who she is still loyal to for some reason. The something new is me, a rich guy from another country. If she doesn't want me, then someone else will. She may have noticed that when I was getting contact info off the other girl I met at the beach.

Still no sailboat action as the weather has been stormy and it's the Christmas season. I'm also told there's lots of snakes on the island as they come out in the summer. At least they don't have lots of spiders here like in Central America. Or scorpions like in Mexico. I've got lots of travel stories... haha.

yosho

everyone woman wants to be swept off their feet, it doesn't matter what the timing is.

The fact that she isn't willing to kiss you just shows that you aren't smooth enough, or she's not interested enough.

There is no waiting or mourning...that is just BS, if you were what she was looking for, her ex wouldn't matter.

Anyways, it's good that you have other options, i would keep playing both until one of them really starts to like you.

__________________
mm...sex is fun

Mantus

Thank you! Yes.

tiltedbc

The Final Update:

Went out with her and her friends. It started off well and we got along, going for coffee since we couldn't get into the club right away.

I gave her the photos of her as a present and she enjoyed that. Complimented her a couple times and also made a point of touching her casually when I could. Sort of a way to feel her out a bit and get a sense of if she was attracted me. She didn't object, nor did she respond that much toward me.

We get in the club and it's packed. I hate these places and I'm not social in them. Too much noise, smoke and crowds that constantly bump or crush you. It's just not my scene. She's by me but not making an effort to talk. I'm standing thinking that I have to get her talking but her friends are dominating the conversation. Eventually, she goes over and starts talking with some other guys, leaving me behind with one of her friends.

It was about that point that I was thinking about the whole relationship and how she was acting tonight. I also thought about comments in this thread and decided she just not that interested in me outside of being a friend.

I got caught up talking to this guy who was nice at first then started being a prick because he was getting drunk and thinks that foreign people are bums. Why would I be travelling around the world rather than working etc... During this time, she slipped out of the club with one of her friends without saying goodbye. I didn't even care, and left as well.

Walking home, I thought about this whole situation and if it's worthwhile even as "friends". No. I was actually laughing and felt a bit free.

So I sent her a one word text message on my cell: goodbye

Onto new and better things. "It" just wasn't there with this girl.

Sharon

Sorry it didn't work out - but it's more than likely for the best. I've been there, done that, got more T-shirts than will fit in my washing machine. Hope the next situation works out better.

Frosstbyte

This is something of a threadjack, but the number of times the ladder theory has correctly predicted outcomes in relationships in my experience (both for me and for my friends) dramatically outweighs the number of times it has gotten things wrong. Sure it's drowning it its own cynicism, but it's certainly got something going for it. Humans (perhaps I should say members of Western civilization) hate to be grouped together because it infringes on our desperately important individuality, but when you get down to it, we sure do a lot of things in exactly the same way.

As yosho said, if she really dug him, she'd not be putting up barriers. Barriers mean something and even if the barriers can come down over time, as Abaya indicated hers might have, they're still there, which means you're not "in." Waiting around for someone to warm up to you when they're hurt over someone else sucks and, for my time, isn't something I ever want to do (again). When it comes down to it, you're a cuddle bitch hoping the status quo changes. Sometimes you get lucky and it does. Sometimes you get unlucky and it doesn't. Life's too short to invest that much time and emotional energy in a girl who is that confused.

I think you made the right choice to move on.

tiltedbc

Oh shit.... the wierdness continues. Read more about my fucked up little life.

I get up this morning and decide I have to get things happening with other women. So I message the girl I met on the beach and ask her out. Turns out she's busy this weekend because it's Christmas but YES she wants to see me next week. Ok. Will try again later.

I walk downtown on one of the main drags. I real knockout girl with big tits walks out of a store and has a cigarette in her hand. I stop and light it for her and ask her name etc... She's pretty nice and asks me what club I'm going to tonight. I don't know and she tells me where she's going. Maybe I'll see her there? Hmm.. sure.

10 mins later I'm walking up the same street and sit down on a concrete bench along the walkway. Who comes bouncing along just as I sit down? The woman who this thread is all about. She's happy to see me and recognized me by my t-shirt. I'd given her a photo of myself wearing it while I was in Rio. Turns out she hadn't left the club before me the other night and was on the dancefloor with her friends. She didn't read my message until 5 am when she got home. The clubs stay open till 5 or 6 am by the way.

She's going away for the weekend because of Christmas but will be back next week and wants to get together with me and her friends who, it turns out like me. I tell her that clubs are too busy and I want to do something with just to the two of us. Go out for dinner or coffee alone so we can talk. There's a flash of hesitation and then she says ok. She'll contact me when she gets back. Hmmm... guess it isn't over yet.

I've also got this other woman on my mind. She's the one who originally set me up with said woman. We meet and talk once a week at her store. Lately she's been talking about how she wants to break up with her boyfriend because he's never around and has kids from a previous marriage. He won't be in the city for New Years and she looks me deep in the eyes and says "I don't have a man for New Years". Oh shit... it never rains but it pours.

I've read the ladder theory but will have to go over it again to figure it out. I've also read several good dating books and apply that stuff at times. I think I've played every role from badboy to total wimp at various times. I'd like to say I can control it but I can't. I have this strong personality that seems to turn itself on but not all the time. Very strange to say but that's how I feel. It's not always a good thing. Scary for other people and I think it's close to what some guys call Alpha Male.

About being smooth... I've had guys to awe of my pickup abilites, mainly in Brazil. Not only for sex but just to talk to them and take them out. I literally pointed out a girl to an Irish guy and told him I was going to take her out. That night, I did. Another girl I just looked at the right way and she was all over me. I could explain exactly how I seduced her but if I "tried" to do it tonight at a club, it wouldn't work. It's not something I can turn on.

Anyway... I think I'll go take a cold shower then look up this ladder theory thing. I also need to learn how to be an asshole and badboy. Maybe get a tatoo of a snake on my arm or something.

ZZTopper

dont forget to also give yourself a badass nickname.
they call me snnnnake, because im a badass.... yea....