ShadowWraith

I guess this sort of fits under the relationship category so I'm posting here, mods feel free to move it if you think it belongs somewhere else. So I'm not really big into religion (neither is my family) and I think mass is pretentious, dull, and a waste of time. I have no problems with people who are deeply religious and this is not intended to bash them, but well it's really just not my thing. I also don't get why people go just for the sake of going but well, thats whole other topic.

Anyway, so I've been going out with my girlfriend (shes Catholic) for about a year and a half and she goes to church every weekend. We're both in university and in a long-distance relationship so the weekends are basically the only time we get to see each other. Everytime she comes to me or I go to her she asks if I'll go to mass with her and most of the time I'll go just to make her happy but sometimes I tell her I really don't want to and she gets really mad at me (especially if shes coming to visit me).

I'm not a religious person by nature or upbringing and the more i go to mass the more it just grates on me as well as the way she just expects me to come along. Whats worse is that it really seems like she goes just to go, not for any deeper religious or spiritual reasons (I have asked her about this and she has admitted thats true). So am I justified in being annoyed that I'm dragged along to mass and having religion force-fed to me every weekend or should I be more understanding that she just wants a church buddy? Thanks in advance for any advice or comments.

feelgood

Buddy, I know exactly what you're feeling dude. I used to have a long distance relationship with a catholic. Fortunately, in my case she was understanding that I'm not much of a religion person.

Anyways, you're being force-fed dude. My reasoning is that relationships are suppose to be about understanding and you're finding yourself in a situation where a religious person is clashing with you and is not being very understanding in the fact that you choose not to follow religion.

Your post doesn't indicate that you had a discussion with her regarding this particular topic. It's important to have those kind of discussion and explore different ways of dealing with this. From a religion perspective, it may be important to her that you attend those mass with her and show her that you're interested in enchancing your relationship with her through spritiuality means. The fact that you turned down her offer to go to the masses with her once in awhile might tell her that you're not interested in enchaning the relationship using that means.

That's why you gotta talk to her, explain why you don't want to attend the mass with her. I know it, because I had to do the same in my situation.

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Acetylene

For most religious people, their beliefs are central to who they are. If you are dating someone religious, it is more or less a certainty that they will try to get you involved. This is not, in and of itself, a wrong thing; it is actually a sign of how much they care for you and want you involved in something important to them.

That being said, it is a BAD BAD IDEA to force anyone to attend/follow a religion in which they do not believe. That's a surefire way to make someone hate religion and, eventually, God (NOT what she has in mind, I'm sure). If you've been baptised, she doesn't even have the excuse of trying to make sure you are saved--you've already BEEN saved and now it's your business whether you go to church or not. (Of course opinions on this matter vary radically and a devout Catholic might still fear going to Hell because the Catholic church is kind of screwy that way.)

So. Keeping these things in mind, I would honestly tell her that you understand she loves you and her religion and she wants you to be a part of it, but tell her that it is really unpleasant for you to attend Mass and, for you, that's not what living a good life is all about. After that, you have a choice. You can work out together a way that you can be involved in something that is important to her (Bible study at home, attending Mass only once per month, whatever), or you can tell her honestly but gently that this is not your thing and never will be.

If she has a problem with this, then she is dating the wrong guy. Continuing to see someone who wants you to be something you aren't is a trap. Get out while you can and find someone who isn't trying to change you to match some idealized picture in her head, and do it fast--life is too short to waste on the wrong girl.

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martinguerre

just a note on "just going for the sake of going"

i think it would be a mistake were one to underestimate the possible importance of this for someone. there is an unfortunate idea in our culture that states that the important thing about a activity is the inward disposition, the thoughts that accompany the action, and that the content is in the cognition.

sometimes, oftentimes, the act in and of itself has great content...and a Catholic mass has been designed over two millenia to do just that. it may be more important to her than she can really actively describe.

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For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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maleficent

I don't think that you are being force fed anything... people get out of church what they want to get out of it...

I think relationships are about compromise... and doing things that you wouldn't ordinarily do... I can't tell you how many 'family dinners' I've been dragged to, I've been dragged to a NASCAR event that I was hoping that the cars would crash into where i was sitting just to end the misery... I've dragged other people to the opera and to the ballet and to other events that they wouldn't ordinarily go to but went with me because it was somehting that was important to me...

One hour a week in church won't kill anyone...

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*Nikki*

^^^Me agrees with her, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Willravel

Ask her to go with you to a big building filled with devout athiests for 2 hours.

AquaFox

if you go, you dont have to do the communion or anything like that... you could consider getting wireless earbud headphones and a mp3 player or walkmen.... just put one of the wireless earbuds in your ear thats facing away from your friend, and you'll be fine... if anyone else asks, it's a hearing-aid



i dont think you said so, but are you catholic? or what would you associate yourself to mostly?

you could allways say your leaning towards another aspect of chirstianity side and say it would be best for you to do your religion on your own, sleeping in your own bed till noon that is... but for real, not all religions require you to attend every week...



... if you talk to her and express yourself to her, she has to accept it... yet again, maybe there is something you can get her to do for you going...

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...AquaFox...

maleficent

Unless you've recieved First Holy Communion, while lightening bolts won't fly out of the sky, and disembodied voices won't damn you for all eternity, a person should not receive communion...

Participating in the mass, by standing when you are supposed to stand, kneeling when you are supposed to kneel, if you are morally opposed to it, it's not necessary to say the prayers, but I think, it's polite to stand...

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BigBen

Run, don't walk away from this one...

Religion is serious shit to some people, and this girl is hoping that you will see the light and convet to her ethos soon.

Is that likely to happen? No? Then it is a deal-breaker. I can't believe that you sit through a service so that you can spend time with this girl.

Is she crazy in bed? Smoking hot? Your first? What in all that is holy are you sticking this out for? You need to find someone with similar interests, viewpoints and ethics. Religion is a deal-breaker, but I mentioned that already and you were paying full attention to me the first time.

If you were a prick, you could pretend to convert to get in her pants, but that is a real asshole thing to do and I am not an asshole. I do not endorse or condone that behaviour. I draw the line at wearing a fucking ugly sweater that was a gift.

my penny of advice.

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Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

Gatorade Frost

That's about it. I've been through this with several girlfriends (Me being the devout atheist, and they being the devout Christian, mormon, whatever.) In the end, a person's religion will ultimately be more important than a relationship because it's their eternity they're toying with and finding some one who matches that will always ultimately be more important than what's going on with a boyfriend at the time.

I would say it's time to skeedaddle. If she can't accept your beliefs and your decision to not attend church or believe, then you're going to be in for a really uncomfortable relationship for a really long time.

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

Ustwo

If the girls only apparently religious nature is going to Chruch for an hour every Sunday, then what the hell are you talking about?

I'm glad I didn't take your advice when I was dating my wife. She went to Church on Sundays at college the first year we were together. I cured her of this habbit but this does not seem to be a deal breaker in the least. He even stated she wasn't very religious and just seems to like to go to Church on Sunday. I can't blame her for wanting a friend there, Church is boring.

This btw is called guilt. You are told you should go to Church on Sundays so you feel bad not going and feel better about yourself if you do go knowning it makes your family happy.

If she starts inviting him to bible study, then he might think of breaking it off, but I'd find this FAR less annoying then my wife who wanted me to go to country music concerts at that age (and thank GOD she doesn't like country music anymore).

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BigBen

Ustwo, this is what I am responding to.

She gets pissed at him for not attending her religious ceremony. What the fuck is that?

The activity grates on him and is expected by her. Is this situation similar to the one you shared with your wife?

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Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

astrahl

You, sir, are a genius.

/bows

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analog

She needs to understand that her religion is not your religion. Keep in mind, though, that regardless of how much she gets out of going to church, that's her choice, and should have nothing to do with your end of the deal.

Ask her why it's so important. Does she want to share a part of her life with you? Is she taking you in the hopes that you'll grow to like it, and maybe convert over? The intent may well be a big part of whether or not there's a deal-breaking issue here.

Just remember she's not the last girl on the planet. Things like this drive people apart all the time, don't worry about it. If you're "meant" to be together, this will work itself out.

I'd also like to note that the only people in this thread telling him to "suck it up and just do it" are female. No surprise there. Rational objectivity abandoned in favor of supporting team girl. Yay. No one should ever be forced to have to do anything by their partner, if they were in a real relationship. Relationships are not about holding your partner's heart hostage while you make them do whatever you want.

Carno

Heh.

I have no advice for you dude. While I would find it annoying were I in your shoes, I definitely wouldn't go overboard as BigBen suggests. Maybe she'll eventually understand that church is just not your thing.

You could show her how annoying it is by forcing her to watch every week a sports game or something that you like and she doesn't.

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clavus

There are two ways to look at this. It is up to you to decide which.

1) You have a fundamental incompatibility. Move on.
2) This is one of those things she does bugs you, but she's worth it.

Don't try to change her. Don't get hung up on "is this fair?" It is what it is. You need to decide if you want it.

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abaya

Um, sorry to go against "team girl" (way to score points, Analog ), but I am female and I would tell you to run away from your girlfriend as well. This is definitely going to be a breaker, unless you have some hidden mystic in you or if she has atheist inclinations (are you an atheist?). I used to be one of those religious people, and I can tell you right now that if she makes you feel that way now, it most likely won't get any better over time (will probably get worse).

Unless, of course, she's Ustwo's wife... Or like me, since I walked away from the religion thing eventually. But I wasn't a cradle Catholic, either. That's some deep shit you'd be trying to mess with. I wouldn't touch it.

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Sultana

The thing about most religions is that proselytizing is pretty much a requirement. So even if you can deal with this now, be aware that later on down the road they may pressure her to pressure you. I'm concerned that it's something she already gets mad at you over.

Personally, it'd be a deal-breaker for me. But realize I have my own history in that area that filters my viewpoint.

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At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

analog

I didn't say all females would say to suck it up, far from it- i'm just saying that the only people who are doing so are female. Big difference.

Acetylene

Aw come on and let's not start slinging the gender slurs. People are not disagreeing. The general consensus is, either it's a fundamental incompatability because she wants you to convert, or it's a minor inconvenince of one hour per week because all she wants is company. The ladies just happen to think it's the latter more often, big deal. This is not exactly a scientific study considering it's only 1 page of posts.

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ShadowWraith

Hey, well I'm not sure if its really a dealbreaker because i do like most everything else about her and shes not a fanatic or anything, the only religious tendency she has is to go to church every weekend or she'll "feel bad". We've had the whole religion debate and shes fine with the atheist thing and shes really not trying to force religion on me at all but she really just wants someone to go with her so she doesn't have to go alone. I just don't know how to get out of it without getting yelled at, so it really is more of minor inconvnience then anything else, just particularly irksome. Oh and I have asked if I could bring an ipod in and apparently thats disrepectful so that would be a no... Thanks for all the comments so far though guys, i really appreciate it.

Ustwo

Yea bringing an ipod to church is a bit disrespectful

Part of being in love (and I'm not saying you are) is doing things you might not otherwise do if you know it makes your SO happy. Going to church seems like a waste of time, but there are far worse things she could want you to go to, like say country music concerts.

I'm glad to see you posted a follow up, I'd hate if you followed some of the advice given by those who obviously have a adversion to all religion here and screwed up what could be a good thing.

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Vincentt

I think this problem makes a future impossible.
Sorry.

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guthmund

What about "The Bible" on tape? I hear Larry King does a nice version....

Obscure Simpsons references aside, religion certainly doesn't have to be a deal breaker, just talk about it and set some boundaries. She's not trying to convert the heathen, she's just lonely and wants some company, which, of the two, is the much easier problem to solve.

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Jinn

I echo the sentiments above; you talk to her (over the course of a few weeks) and you decide whether this is something that you can tolerate or not. If she decides to be uncompromising, then I think leaning towards the NOT tolerate side is a good choice. If church is so important to her, tell her she can do it before she comes down to see you. When she's done being Godly, she can join you (the mere mortal) for some TLC.

And I had this revelation the other day, and thought it applicable;
You can only steal a girl from her religion if you're REALLY hot.
I learned that one the hard way. I hope for your sake that you're Brad Pitt..

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Ustwo

Damn I must be hot

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Jinn

Unfortunately I must admit that is the case.. or you have some other mitigating intellectual factor which makes you better than the fiery pits of hell..

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

analog

I converted a virgin mormon to a non-mormon sex addict. I like your revelation. lol

yellowchef

I too am female and I am going to say you need to talk with her and decide how important your attandance is.

She should not force you, guilt you or badger you into going. As a reasonable adult she can say that religion is of utmost importance and it is something she wants you to convert to in order for you to continue being a couple. At this point you can decide to call it quits since you make it clear you are not into religion. She could also say that she understands your choice and not be mad at you anymore for not wanting to accompany her to Mass.

I like going to church, I dont mind going alone because its not like I can talk or anything anyway... I dont go a lot, I would never be mad if a future boyfriend of mine didnt want to go with me or whatnot.

You just have to decide kid, talk to her and get her exact stance. Its only fair to know what she wants, especially if you like her as much as you say.

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the voices in your head are not real--but they still have some really great ideas.

always remeber you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. But..you CAN choose the insane asylum where you have them all put away!

Carno

lol yeah well it was probably based on one girl who turned him down.

I have seen exactly the opposite too.. I have seen tons of church girls get converted over to..."backsliding" I believe is the word they use.

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Sultana

Perfectly stated.
If she wants to go to church, that's her choice. I can't believe she'd get mad at you if you don't want to go, knowing you're not religious, this isn't your church, etc. She basically wants you there as entertainment for her, entertainment that isn't as obviously disrespectful as an ipod in the services.

If she doesn't get enough out of it to endure going to services alone, then I'd venture to say she shouldn't go, or at least she should re-examine why she does go.

Yeah yeah, I can understand that perhaps she just enjoys your company so much that she wants you with her whenever possible, but church is kinda like classes, you're ostensibly there to learn. Shouldn't matter if your friends are in class with you or not.

I know church can be a community thing, a family thing, but after a lifetime of attending church 2-3 times a week from childhood to end of college (religious college at that, I ended up with a minor in Biblical Studies from all the extra bible classes we were required to take), I can say I never got anything like that out of it, which is surely a large reason why I no longer attend.

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Jinn

One?! Fuckin christians! :-D

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Carno

lol..

You have a thing for Christian women or something?

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Sultana

Literally...

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

yellowchef

heh

I dont think you need to run away but I agree with Sultana, Mass itself is an individual thing. You cant talk or cuddle or make out during mass. Its an individual thing..

If you're willing tell her you dont want to attend Mass but you will go with her to like church performances or picnics or something. This way the main focus isnt on religion(ok maybe for performances) but on fun and you can communicate and interact with one another rather than having to focus on the sermon and prayer.

Hopefully this isnt a deal breaker for her, I can see you want to work something out with her and that is awesome. Good luck!

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the voices in your head are not real--but they still have some really great ideas.

always remeber you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. But..you CAN choose the insane asylum where you have them all put away!

Val_1

You shouldn't be forced to go to church. If it's not your thing, nothing will change that. It'll just eat away at you until it causes problems. This doesn't mean the relationship won't work. Let her know how you feel. She either accepts you for whol you are, or she doesn't. Live and let live. If you're ok with her being religious and she's ok with you not being religious, it's fine. I know a few couples like that and it works fine. The woman goes to church every Sunday, the guy doesn't go at all.

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Prince

Bringing an iPod to church is disrespectful?

Wow.

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Gatorade Frost

Me too!

They're like pent up sex beasts.

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

spindles

My wife is a Christian and I am not. When we first started to go out, she tried *really* hard to convert me. I told her I was fine with her going to church, but I make my own choices. Either accept me as I am or we are through. She is (now) fine with that (though I'm guessing she prays that someday I'll see the light )

We have made quite a few friends at her local church and they are all aware (even though I occasionally attend with her) that I am not a christian. Most of them have refrained from trying to convert me as well.

It really is something that can be worked around - but it is pretty quickly clear if this is going to be a showstopper.

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