uncle phil

/me would love to see the original article from which that second quote came...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
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"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
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never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

Marvelous Marv

Here's a link that may do it for you.

Link

The beginning gives other references.

Coppertop

Anyone else see the program on the Hitler Channel a few days back about the Japanese atomic program? According to the show, the Japanese had all but caught up with the US in developing nuclear weapons and according to one witness said they'd even successfully tested one warhead off the coast of Korea. Apparently the weapons lab in Korea was run by the Japanese Navy and was unknown to the Americans (who only knew about the one run from the mainland run by the Japanese Army). Guess who looted this site at the end of the war? Yup, the Russians.

If this is all true, it certainly puts things in a much different light.

Marvelous Marv

I'm revealing my ignorance here, but what's the "Hitler Channel?"

P.S. It looks like Pacifier has lost interest in this thread. I can see why.

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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

joshbaumgartner

Hitler Channel = History Channel, I believe....because it seems like half the time you turn it on there is something about Hitler.

Pacifier

you can? Please tell me.

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"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Coppertop

I dare say it's a wee bit more than half. But, yeah.

Marvelous Marv

As everyone who has read this thread (including you) already knows,

1. The Japanese emperor had to overrule his military commanders in order to surrender. They refused to. Oh, and from your own link:

2. You have not explained why the Allies should have been content to watch their men die (U.S.S. Indianapolis) while waiting for the Japanese to get off the pot.

3. You have not explained why the Japanese were trying to achieve nuclear capability if they were preparing to surrender. Was the U-235 intended to be a gift to the Allies intended to express their regret?

In fact, you've been quite reticent in your responses to the latest posts, except for repeating the same "woulda, coulda, shoulda" that has been thoroughly discredited.

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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Pacifier

So you want to discuss ad infinitum?

Yes they refused, but still dropping a second bomb shorty after the other is not "sving lives" thats "oh we have another lets drop it"

So you rather kill 100000 civilians than let 883 soldiers (USS Indianapolis) die?

Well, I thought a adapt to the usual style of discussion here and repeat arguments until ppl. believe them.
I have giben you a shitload of sources of people you said that Japan would have surrendered without invasion and without the bombe. The sources included american and japanese. You haven't told me why you think that Nimitz, Eisenhower, MacArthur and others had no clue about the situation in the war.

Personally I think everthing is said here, you haven't convinced me and I obviously haven't convinced you.

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

5757

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I sustain my church leaders. So I feel war is neccesary. So, I support it. What happened 60 years ago, had to happen.
It's still so sad to think about though. System of a Down (almost) said it best.


System Of A Down - Boom Lyrics

I've been walking through your streets

where all your money is earned

where all your buildings are crying

And clueless neckties working

revolving fake lawn houses

housing all your fears

desensitized by TV

over bearing advertising

God of consumers

and all your crooked creatures looking good

Mirrors filtering information through the public eye

Designed for profit sharing

your neighbor what a guy

BOOM

BOOM

BOOM

Everytime your drop the bomb

You kill the God

Your child is born

BOOM

BOOM

BOOM

BOOM

Modern globalization

coupled with condemnations

unnecessary death

matador corporations

puppeting your frustrations with a blinded flag

manufacturing consent is the name of the game

the bottom line is money and nobody gives a f**k

4,000 hungry children leave us per hour from starvation

while billions are spent creating death showers

BOOM

BOOM

BOOM

Everytime your drop the bomb

You kill the God

Your child is born

BOOM x11

Why must we kill our own kind

BOOM

BOOM

BOOM

Everytime your drop the bomb

You kill the God

Your child is born

BOOM x 12

EVERY TIME YOU DROP THE BOMB

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Hey! Wait! I've got a new complaint, Forever in debt to ((your)) priceless advice. - Nirvana