This should frighten you - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Marvelous Marv · 07-26-2005, 08:45 PM

I'm sure some will attribute this to "right-wingers," or "radical Christian fundamentalists," or the like.

It sure sounds believable to me, though.

Link

Quote:

New York Post
July 26, 2005

Coke Fiend Bin Laden

By Dan Mangan

Osama bin Laden tried to buy a massive amount of cocaine, spike it with
poison and sell it in the United States, hoping to kill thousands of
Americans one year after the 9/11 attacks, The Post has learned.

The evil plot failed when the Colombian drug lords bin Laden approached
decided it would be bad for their business - and, possibly, for their own
health, according to law-enforcement sources familiar with the Drug
Enforcement Administration's probe of the aborted transaction. The feds were
told of the scheme earlier this year, but its existence had never been made
public. The Post has reviewed a document detailing the DEA's findings in the
matter, in addition to interviewing sources familiar with the case.

Sources said the feds were told that bin Laden personally met with leaders
of a Colombian drug cartel to in 2002 to negotiate the purchase of tons of
cocaine, saying that he was willing to spend tens of millions of dollars to
finance the deal.

It was not clear where the meeting took place.

Bin Laden hoped that large numbers of Americans dying from poisoned coke
would lead to widespread terror.

"They wanted to kill thousands or people — more than the World Trade
Center," said a source.

Although the drug lords would have reaped millions of dollars in profits by
selling the cocaine to bin Laden, they knew that if his plan succeeded it
might effectively destroy the market for their coke in America for years,
sources said.

But that was only one reason they declined bin Laden's offer.

The other was their fear of retaliation from the U.S. government once its
citizens started to die from the drugs, according to sources.

Despite bin Laden's plan being thwarted, the DEA believes that al Qaeda
continues to this day to traffic in drugs to fund a variety of its
operations — including training, traveling and terror attacks.

In 2002, then-DEA Director Asa Hutchinson said, "The DEA [has] received
multi-source information that Osama bin Laden himself has been involved in
the financing and facilitation of heroin-trafficking activities."

"It is important we recognize that when money goes from the pocket of an
American to buy drugs, it may contribute to the financing of unspeakable
crimes of violence around the world," Hutchinson told Congress that year
when he detailed the narcotics trade connection to al Qaeda and other terror
groups.

In April of this year, Afghan tribal leader Hajji Bashir Noorzai, who was
one of the most wanted drug dealers in the world and previously had been
identified as bin Laden's major heroin supplier, was busted in New York City
on federal criminal charges.

Personally, I don't give a shit if someone uses coke. As long as he/she isn't my doctor, taxi driver, airline pilot....

Uh, come to think of it, there are a LOT of people I don't want using coke. Oh well, "talk among yourselves."

Marvelous Marv · 07-26-2005, 08:54 PM

I thought about making two different threads, but the subject matter is just too similar.

The title would have been, "This should REALLY frighten you."

Again, it's from Worldnet Daily, so it will automatically be discounted by some, but here it is:

Link

Quote:

FROM JOSEPH FARAH'S G2 BULLETIN
Al-Qaida's U.S.
nuclear targets
Captured documents, terrorists reveal bin Laden's preferred dates, places for 'American Hiroshima'
Posted: July 18, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Al-Qaida's prime targets for launching nuclear terrorist attacks are the nine U.S. cities with the highest Jewish populations, according to captured leaders and documents.

As first revealed last week in Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin, the premium, online intelligence newsletter published by the founder of WND, Osama bin Laden is planning what he calls an "American Hiroshima," the ultimate terrorist attack on U.S. cities, using nuclear weapons already smuggled into the country across the Mexican border along with thousands of sleeper agents.

The series of attacks is designed to kill 4 million, destroy the economy and fundamentally alter the course of history.

At least two fully assembled and operational nuclear weapons are believed to be hidden in the United States already, according to G2 Bulletin intelligence sources and an upcoming book, "The al-Qaida Connection: International Terrorism, Organized Crime and the Coming Apocalypse," by former FBI consultant Paul L. Williams.

The cities chosen as optimal targets are New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Boston and Washington, D.C. New York and Washington top the preferred target list for al-Qaida leadership.

Bin Laden's goal, according to G2 Bulletin sources, is to launch one initial attack, followed by a second on another city to simulate the U.S. bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The optimal dates for the attacks are Aug. 6, the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing, Sept. 11 and May 14, the anniversary of the re-creation of the state of Israel in 1948. No specific year has been suggested, however, this Aug. 6 represents the 60th anniversary of the Hiroshima attack.

The captured terrorists and documents also suggest smaller attacks may take place on American soil before the nuclear incidents. They may include some involving automatic weapons at schools and shopping malls, but will not include any airplane hijackings. Why? Because bin Laden does not want any failed efforts to overshadow "the success of Sept. 11." There will also not be any attacks on U.S. nuclear power plants. The rationale? The nuclear power plants can act as force multipliers when the weapons of mass destruction are detonated.

Another requirement dictated from the top at al-Qaida is that the attacks take place in daylight, so that the whole world will be able to see the images of a mushroom cloud over an American city.

One of the sources for the information is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the chief planner of the Sept. 11 attacks, who is now in U.S. custody.

As previously reported by G2 Bulletin, al-Qaida has obtained at least 40 nuclear weapons from the former Soviet Union – including suitcase nukes, nuclear mines, artillery shells and even some missile warheads. In addition, documents captured in Afghanistan show al-Qaida had plans to assemble its own nuclear weapons with fissile material it purchased on the black market.

U.S. military sources also say there is evidence to suggest al-Qaida is paying former Russian special forces "Spetznaz" troops to assist the terrorist group in locating nuclear weapons planted in the U.S. during the Cold War. Osama bin Laden's group is also paying nuclear scientists from Russia and Pakistan to maintain its existing nuclear arsenal and assemble additional weapons with the materials it has invested hundreds of millions in procuring over a period of 10 years. Al-Qaida sources indicate they would prefer to use Russian-made weapons for symbolic reasons.

The plans for the devastating nuclear attack on the U.S. have been under development for more than a decade. [Note: It will be hard to blame W, since the plans were hatched before he assumed the presidency.] It is designed as a final deadly blow to the U.S., which is seen by al-Qaida and its allies as "the Great Satan."

At least half the nuclear weapons in the al-Qaida arsenal were obtained for cash from the Chechen terrorist allies.

But the most disturbing news is that high level U.S. officials now believe at least some of those weapons have been smuggled into the U.S. for use in the near future in major cities as part of this "American Hiroshima" plan.

According to Williams, former CIA Director George Tenet informed President Bush one month after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that at least two suitcase nukes had reached al-Qaida operatives in the U.S.

"Each suitcase weighed between 50 and 80 kilograms (approximately 110 to 176 pounds) and contained enough fissionable plutonium and uranium to produce an explosive yield in excess of two kilotons," wrote Williams. "One suitcase bore the serial number 9999 and the Russian manufacturing date of 1988. The design of the weapons, Tenet told the president, is simple. The plutonium and uranium are kept in separate compartments that are linked to a triggering mechanism that can be activated by a clock or a call from the cell phone."

According to the author, the news sent Bush "through the roof," prompting him to order his national security team to give nuclear terrorism priority over every other threat to America.

However, it is worth noting that Bush failed to translate this policy into securing the U.S.-Mexico border through which the nuclear weapons and al-Qaida operatives are believed to have passed with the help of the MS-13 smugglers. He did, however, order the building of underground bunkers away from major metropolitan areas for use by federal government managers following an attack.

Bin Laden, according to Williams, has nearly unlimited funds to spend on his nuclear terrorism plan because he has remained in control of the Afghanistan-produced heroin industry. Poppy production has greatly increased even while U.S. troops are occupying the country, he writes. Al-Qaida has developed close relations with the Albanian Mafia, which assists in the smuggling and sale of heroin throughout Europe and the U.S.

Some of that money is used to pay off the notorious MS-13 street gang between $30,000 and $50,000 for each sleeper agent smuggled into the U.S. from Mexico. The sleepers are also provided with phony identification, most often bogus matricula consular ID cards indistinguishable from Mexico's official ID, now accepted in the U.S. to open bank accounts and obtain driver's licenses.

According to Williams' sources, thousands of al-Qaida sleeper agents have now been forward deployed into the U.S. to carry out their individual roles in the coming "American Hiroshima" plan.

I'll point out that 40% of the respondents to this poll:

TFP Poll

thought that terrorists are "not very dangerous" to us.

guy44 · 07-26-2005, 09:29 PM

Uh, I'm not sure why you think the coke thing might be attributed to wingers, it just sounds weird. I doubt it is true, it sounds too, I don't know, airport thriller novel to me. It might be true, that's just my gut reaction.

As to the other thing: if there is a realistic chance that there may be multiple nukes in Al Qaeda control within the United States, as well as 40 nuclear weapons total in terrorist hands, then this would be the biggest story since 9/11. And I've never heard it anywhere, it is just found on a winger site. If it starts popping up elsewhere, I might give it a second thought. Until then, I have no reason to believe it isn't just full of shit.

EDIT: I just reread that last bit. The info was found on apparantly the "premier" online intelligence site, which just happens to have been founded by the owner of World Net Daily.

Hardknock · 07-26-2005, 11:46 PM

And why would this scare me?

Since I don't do coke, I don't think I'd have anything to worry about........

As for the second article...

Quote:

According to the author, the news sent Bush "through the roof," prompting him to order his national security team to give nuclear terrorism priority over every other threat to America.

This alone make me believe that this whole article is bullshit. Bush actually doing something that's in America's best interest? Bush actually trying to protect Americans from real threats?? Call me when you have more "meat."

07-27-2005, 04:12 AM

Anyone can come up with a scary plan if they sit and think hard enough about it, LSD in the water, briefcase nukes, nerve gas on the tube, anthrax gently sifted over fresh dollar bills, demolition of skyscrapers (as per the pre 9/11 "Fight Club") switching communual wine for mescalin - and before that it was mutually assured global thermo-nuclear annhilation. That was way more scary.

So my advice is, either get over it, or learn to accept the fact that you are going to be very very scared for the rest of your life. Because there is always going to be someone who could destroy everything you care about and you won't be able to do anything about it, whether it's drinking and driving (more deaths than terrorism, just as nasty) youth vandalism (sticking razor blades in water-slides, throwing bricks off bridges onto passing cars and other odious practices), drugs or scientology, there are plenty of ways someone's life can be ruined because of someone elses idiocy.

samcol · 07-27-2005, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardknock

This alone make me believe that this whole article is bullshit. Bush actually doing something that's in America's best interest? Bush actually trying to protect Americans from real threats?? Call me when you have more "meat."

We had Tom Ridge aknowledging that he was issuing fake terror alerts to raise Bush's approval ratings. I don't think we really know what to believe from this administration anymore.

dlish · 07-27-2005, 05:51 AM

well the drugs story rings 'full of shit' to me. such sensationalism wont rock my boat. OBL's targets wouldnt be druggo's, junkies and addicts, it'd be a target with some political/ financial motive.

Marvelous Marv · 07-27-2005, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

We had Tom Ridge aknowledging that he was issuing fake terror alerts to raise Bush's approval ratings. I don't think we really know what to believe from this administration anymore.

This wasn't released by the Bush administration, and it did not create a terror alert.

Even so, you didn't have the winning entry in the pool to see who could blame the Bush administration first, regardless of whether or not it's true.

Hardknock slipped in at #4. Let's see, who had that number ...

Marvelous Marv · 07-27-2005, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zen_tom

Anyone can come up with a scary plan if they sit and think hard enough about it, LSD in the water, briefcase nukes, nerve gas on the tube, anthrax gently sifted over fresh dollar bills, demolition of skyscrapers (as per the pre 9/11 "Fight Club") switching communual wine for mescalin - and before that it was mutually assured global thermo-nuclear annhilation. That was way more scary.

So my advice is, either get over it, or learn to accept the fact that you are going to be very very scared for the rest of your life. Because there is always going to be someone who could destroy everything you care about and you won't be able to do anything about it, whether it's drinking and driving (more deaths than terrorism, just as nasty) youth vandalism (sticking razor blades in water-slides, throwing bricks off bridges onto passing cars and other odious practices), drugs or scientology, there are plenty of ways someone's life can be ruined because of someone elses idiocy.

True enough. I use articles like this as the impetus to check my emergency kit every so often, to make sure nothing's expired.

Charlatan · 07-27-2005, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy44

Uh, I'm not sure why you think the coke thing might be attributed to wingers, it just sounds weird.

Because certain elements of the conservative right would like to see those who use drugs a)stop using them at any cost b) as decadent left leaning types who need the fear of God in them... That's how I read it anyway, not that this is the case.

Personally, I think it is the floride messing with our precious bodily fluids.

roachboy · 07-27-2005, 06:40 AM

well, we all know that flouride is linked to the problems created by the mineshaft gap. clearly we need to dig more holes.

i wonder if the cocaine article derives its argument from the articles you used to see here and there long ago about various plots to put lsd in urban water supplies.

Gatorade Frost · 07-27-2005, 07:41 AM

I'd believe this article just on the fact that I was watching a show on the Colombian drug cartels yesterday on the History Channel and they mentioned this at the end of the show.

stevo · 07-27-2005, 07:44 AM

I read the cocaine article yesterday on drudge. at least the drug cartels are business men and know what would put them out of business - like all their customers dying.

The news on the nukes isn't new. Pan has been sharing this story with us for months. I don't know how much, if any, of it is true, but I guess we'll find out on Aug 6th. I am sure that Osama has been dreaming of an American Heroshima long before we went into iraq, though.

roachboy · 07-27-2005, 08:48 AM

one day, i went shopping for a bentley.
of course i had not way of actually buying the bentley--but i went shopping for it anyway. i was hoping for a test drive, i think.
following the logic of the article above on nuclear material, because i went shopping for a bentley, i could be argued to already secretly have a bentley, you never know.

it is obviously possible that i have a bentley.
it is obviously possible that bin laden has nuclear material.
i think my having a bentley would be as damaging to any sense of order in the universe as bin laden having a nuke, frankly.
luckily, i am in a position to not have a bentley for all kinds of reasons.

so it is also obvious that i do not have a bentley, and doubtful that bin laden has nuclear material.
but the possibility does function to inflate the status of al qaeda, and of bin laden by erasing the asymetry between the unted states and al qeada.

but frankly, if the americans--and the russians, and the chinese, and the other nuclear powers--were really worried about proliferation, all of them would have stopped developing nuclear weapons long ago.
which they could have done, just as easily as they continued to produce the weapons and materials.

i do not see much in the way of anxiety production that would seperate the possibility that bin laden might have nukes from the official strategies of mutually assured destruction from the cold war period.

everyone dies sooner or later.

i long ago resolved that if nuclear weapons were used in the states, i would smoke as much pot as possible and drive toward the flash.
the traffic would be light heading that way.

Locobot · 07-27-2005, 09:10 AM

If we stop snorting coke the terrorists will have won.

No one has had LSD in sufficient quantities to dose a major city's water supply since the CIA stopped distributing the drug in the late 60s. And that's fact, not conspiracy.

host · 07-27-2005, 10:47 AM

Uhhhh....folks, Is this any indication of the direction of where this Politics forum is heading in? Can we all agree not to "lead" new threads with BS "exclusives" from the NY Post, foxnews .com, or from the "reporting" of Christian "zealot" Joseph Farah? Farah's "article" has appeared before here in TFP politics. There is a "disconnect" that I am observing here at TFP. I've posted evidence, backed by reports of statements by dissenting Republican congressional commiittee chairmen that there is a (so far) successful effort to consolidate oversight of key congressional committees into the hands of people, with the apparent "blessing" of the executive branch, to sell out our right to the potential for healthy, breatheable, air, and a protected environment, in favor of the profits of the likes of Southern Co., and other ""corporatists" who shove the money into the pockets of Congressman "smokey Joe" Barton! Little interest in this is indicated, judging by the response.

We have this report, just in the last 24 hours....the makings of the biggest story since Watergate.....finally some potential for truth to be wrung out of this administration, and we instead, resort to posting this "thread" into the most active today on the politics forum.

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072602069.html
Prosecutor In CIA Leak Case Casting A Wide Net
White House Effort To Discredit Critic Examined in Detail

By Walter Pincus and Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, July 27, 2005; Page A01

The special prosecutor in the CIA leak probe has interviewed a wider range of administration officials than was previously known, part of an effort to determine whether anyone broke laws during a White House effort two years ago to discredit allegations that President Bush used faulty intelligence to justify the Iraq war, according to several officials familiar with the case.

Prosecutors have questioned former CIA director George J. Tenet and deputy director John E. McLaughlin, former CIA spokesman Bill Harlow, State Department officials, and even a stranger who approached columnist Robert D. Novak on the street....................

We have a choice....I'm here to debate/discuss real issues with those who agree or disagree with my opinions...but....with people in my league. I'm not seeing an interest in doing that, "from the other side", and now that interest is slipping away, even from those on "my side". We all have to generally agree where MSM reporting and commentary of newsworthy content comes from, as a foundation for doing this here. If we accept and feed BS like we encounter on this thread.....then Cheney ("I usually watch Fox news") and Murdoch, and those who want to blur the distinction between <a href="http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000990675">propaganda</a>,
WIN, and all reports here, and everywhere, get an equal....low.....weighting.
I won't wait around here when that comes to pass...and it's coming....

Quote:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/12232031.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
Posted on Wed, Jul. 27, 2005

Elmer Smith | OSAMA'S 'COKE SCHEME': NOTHING TO SNIFF AT?
......This, according to an "exclusive" front-page report in the New York Post yesterday, was the gist of a plot the Drug Enforcement Administration turned up this year. Fiendishly clever yet elegant in its simplicity, it sounds like a plan Osama's occasional allies in the South American cocaine cartels would leap at.

After all, you don't rise to the lofty level of drug lord by passing up a chance to bundle a few tons of your overstock for quick sale.

But the Post quotes what it claims are "sources familiar with the DEA's probe" who say that the Colombians Osama approached turned him down flat.

So far, I have been unable to locate any "sources familiar with the DEA's probe." The one source I did find at DEA disavowed any knowledge of the evil plot.

"The New York Post has refused to inform DEA of the basis of its allegations or share the document upon which the reporting is based," the DEA claimed in a release it e-mailed to me yesterday.

I know what it means. Post reporter Dan Mangan did not inform me of the basis of his allegations, either. "Sure," he answered hastily when I asked if he still stood by the story. That was quickly followed by, "Hold on, let me check with my editor."

Moments later, I was referred to Steve Rubenstein, at Rubenstein Associates, a firm that deflects flak for the Post. I'm still waiting to hear from him.

"No DEA official in Washington, Afghanistan, Bogota or New York," according to DEA, "has any information of this type of plot by bin Laden, and a computerized search of our databases reveals no such reporting."........

Here are some direct quotes from Joe Farah....I report....you decide.....

Quote:

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp...arah031203.htm
'Taking America Back'
With Joseph Farah
Author, Founder worldnetdaily.com
Wednesday, March 12, 2003; 1 p.m. ET

In the new book, "Taking America Back: A Radical Plan to Revive Freedom Morality and Justice," author and worldnetdaily.com founder Joseph Farah describes the United States as a moral wasteland and calls on Americans to embrace God. His proposal for change includes abolishing the income tax and the IRS, withdrawing from all international treaties and institutions, repealing all gun laws and ending federal funding for schools, the arts, conservation, housing and agriculture while simultaneously expanding the role of the church in national life, including actively censoring the entertainment industry and having a direct role in education and family life.

Farah was online Wednesday, March 12 at 1 p.m. ET, to talk about the book and field questions and comments.

(Excerpt from transcript)
Piscataway, .J.: Welcome Mr. Farah,
How much influence does God and religion play in your life?

Joseph Farah: No. 1

Atlanta, Ga.: In your list of evils to be avoided in the process of your 12-step plan, you make no substantive mention of alcohol or drugs. Both have a continuing serious impact on America. Can the revolution be effected by drunkards and addicts, too?

Joseph Farah: No, anyone who is a drunkard or a drug user is not capable of self-government. But, likewise, ill-informed and immoral people are not either.

Los Angeles, Calif.: In your book, you call on Americans to embrace God and biblical morality. How can you do this when you also have borne false witness against President Clinton with absurd charges of murdering dozens of people?

Note: Farah's embrace of the "Clinton Body Count" urban legend can be found here.

Joseph Farah: Can you cite one place where I have ever accused President Clinton of murdering anyone?

Goldsboro, N.C.: In your book, "Taking America Back" how much emphasis do you place upon revival and upon the clear preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the means by which this country will once again assume it's role as a leader among nations and as a light to the world?

Joseph Farah: It's the No. 1 prescription. The very first step in my program to take America back is to get down on our knees and ask God for revival and renewal in our lives.

Washington, D.C.: I've never heard of you; however, you might have just sold a book. Are you pleased?

Joseph Farah: Yes.

Arlington, Va.: The opening paragraph of this chat outlining your "strategy" is a description of a cult. Hands down. You'd like to force-feed religion to Americans who have chosen to live their lives differently? Shame on you. You're insane.

Joseph Farah: I don't want to force-feed anyone anything. I'm calling on people who think like I do to act responsibly and make good judgments. I'm not asking anything of anyone who disagrees. Nor am I forcing them to do anything.

Washington, D.C.: What is making the U.S. a "moral wasteland"?

Joseph Farah: The popular culture, a government that removes our sense of self-reliance and responsibility... dependence, rather than independence...

Maryland: Somehow, your views put me in mind of "The Handmaid's Tale."

You seem to have little room in "your" America for people with whom you disagree.

Joseph Farah: This book is not meant to persuade those who disagfree with me. It is a blueprint for action for those who do.

Tariffs to raise money?: tariffs to raise money? You seem to forget that we are bound by economic treaties. And if we break these treaties then with whom will we trade "legally"? You are trying to fit twin sized sheets on a king sized bed.

Joseph Farah: Those treaties are wrong. We have entered into global bodies which are entirely unaccaountable to the people of the United States. This is supposed to be a government for the people, of the people and by the people.

Constitutional requirements?: The Constitution was written two and a half centuries ago, in a world that was only beginning to experience the industrial revolution. Trying to freeze society to fit Washington's day is just silly.

Joseph Farah: Then pack up and find yourself a different country. Becuase the Constitution is the rule of the land here.

Be'er Sheva, Isarel : How is possible that 45 percent of Brits consider president Bush to be as dangerous to world peace as Saddam Hussein? And why is it so difficullt to realize that after 9/11 we have been living in a perpetual Cuban Missile Crisis with no end date in sight?

Joseph Farah: Americans need to remember that we live in a sovereign nation. We are not accountable to the United Nations or anyone else for our national security interests. Israel would do well to remember that too -- for its own good. Both countries need to be more self-reliant.

Alexandria, Va.: Have you considered running for president? I am a Christian and my beliefs are similar to yours.

Joseph Farah: Never.

Washington, D.C.: Who are you taking America back from? Who in your view "stole" it? (I'm not being flip -- just wondering if it's meant to be serious -- or just a catchy title)

Joseph Farah: The No. 1 problem is unaccountable government. We have lost the concept of self-government in this country. That's what this book is all about.

Mt. Rainier, Md.: It seems from the precis of your position on this site that what you want to take America back to is the Stone Age. Let's see; we can try to divorce ourselves from the rest of the world and pretend there is nothing out there. We can be ruled by whoever has the most fire-power. And we can be dominated those people who are sure they know what God wants. This doesn't sound like a society most people would want to live in. Though great of course for fanatics with lots of fire-power (bin Laden, anyone?)

Joseph Farah: Your comments are too incoherent and vague to warrant an intelligent reply.

Northern Virginia: I admit to not having read your book so I am very hesitant to comment without having made an informed decision; however, I can only say, "Yikes" to what I read in the intro. Isn't your model a bit far fetched and unrealistic? I doubt that social justice has a role in your theory. Do the helpless just fade away and out of sight? Many Americans and churches are blind to the true problems outside their little world and may not offer as much help as you think. For example, it is truly amazing that a homeless person can freeze to death on the steps of a church in D.C., yet it happened! In general, what was the basis for your rationale?

Joseph Farah: Helpless people are the responsibility of families first, churches and synogogues second, communities third, states fourth. The federal government's responsibility is to protect the lives and property of citizens. That's what the Constitution says. I'm sorry if you don't like it. That is reality. I am as compassionate as you are. But I don't consider it compassionate to steal other people's money and give it to the less fortunate.

Washington, D.C.: Your take on immigration? Do you believe we should seal our borders?

Joseph Farah: Tight shut.

Gullsgate Minn.: Joseph Farah: Which god are you suggesting this nation embrace? (We have so "many gods before us", as they say?) And if religion becomes incestuously bundled together; in bed with the state -- religio-totalitarianism will be the result. We've been there, done that in Europe. That's why our immigrant forefathers,(foremothers, also) left -- to escape such incidious political powerplays, as assuredly will be endoctrinated by a government embedded with "a god," regardless all the diversity of theologies or non theo-philosophies -- which every citizen in a democratic nation, has the right to choose?

Joseph Farah: There is only one God.

Quote:

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/na...storyID=112542
White House: Roberts doesn't recall being member of Federalist Society
07/26/2005
..............Several news organizations, including The Associated Press, reported immediately after his nomination that Roberts had been a member of the Federalist Society. The AP and others printed corrections after the White House said later that Roberts doesn't recall ever belonging to the group.

Feinstein said she didn't ask him about whether he belonged to the Federalist Society.

"It's not a dispositive question, in my view," she said. "It would be interesting to know what the answer is because he said he can't remember."

The Washington Post reported Monday that it had obtained from a liberal group a 1997-98 Federalist Society leadership directory listing Roberts, then a partner in a private law firm, as being a steering committee member in the group's Washington chapter.

Roberts has acknowledged participating in Federal Society events and giving speeches for the organization.

But on Monday, presidential press secretary Scott McClellan said, "He doesn't recall ever paying dues or being a member." ..................

Finally...we have the curious and disturbing display of a probable new SCOTUS justice, a man who may serve on the court, the final arbiter of issues that will effect our constitutional freedoms, working with the administration to sell himself as a "blank page"....a 50 year old, "man of the law", with no record to examine, no ideaology to concern ourselves with.....already lying and obfuscating the facts of his past to gain his SCOTUS seat. Focus on me, in response to my rant. I won't hijack this thread further, this dismal indication of our overall direction, and sphere of interest, further....by responding to you here.

pan6467 · 07-27-2005, 12:40 PM

There is a very well written book by a former deep cover DEA agent named Micheal Levine, called Triangle of Death. It's a very well written book and its focus is on this super drug that addicts and kills.

FROM AMAZON:

Quote:

Amazon.com editorial descriptions of this work:
Amazon.com: A Paraguayan drug lord teams up with a sect of long-lost Nazis to produce a drug called White Queen, which can radically alter the sexual abilities of humans before it kills them. Chasing White Queen through the Mediterranean, South America, and the United States is a Drug Enforcement Agency undercover operative--based largely on Michael Levine himself, who is a former DEA agent--posing as an Algerian businessman. Husband-and-wife team Michael Levine and Laura Kavanau, draw on Levine's experience to ground the story while its characters rush off in a whirl of international intrigue and science-gone-bad.

It was written in 1996 and is supposed to be based on truth. I have often thought one way to cause mass hysteria and really fuck with the nation..... infest our drugs with something that would kill. It will either lead to legalization or the "death" of the industry.... so to speak.

To dispell this ever happening I think would be foolish.

As for the Farah report: I heard it on my way home from work one night on Coast to Coast AM with George Nouri. Now granted that show is great if you are a conspiracy nut, however, even the sanest person cannot dispell that there are possibilities and even if just a sliver of it is true: the suitcase bombs planted by KGB, the sleeper cells coming across, the soviet scientists now working for Osama.... it's all possible.

I would argue that the recent bombings and the way supposedly Al Quida has been weakened, is a ruse to lower the guard for a massive attack.

I could also argue that our own government is plotting "terrorist" attacks against us to make us more a police state and allow the feds unlimited powers ....... the Patriot Act is a good start at that.

But all this comes down to what you believe could or could not happen and how much you choose to worry about it.

These scenarios are all possible but I personally can't worry about them or I'd go nuts. If it's going to happen there's not a whole hell of a lot I can do to stop any of it, and my worrying will just make me a basket case.

So in the end, I just have to have faith in my leaders and those whose job it is to stop any of this from happening..... and I do..... I have to because I have no choice, today at least.

Willravel · 07-27-2005, 06:13 PM

That reminds me of the storyline from Batman Begins.....

It's possible, but not probable. He has basically no known connections with drug lords either north or south of the border, which is the main source of cocaine for US users. He'd have to use an agent in Central America to make the purchase which would catch the attentions of the local druglords (in Central America) who would probably chase them out because they'd be afraid of being under the 'War on Terror' microscope. Then they'd have to move it using new traffic routes (again, because no druglord would tough them). Then they'd have to hook up with new local distributers, which wouldn't be too much of a problem, BUT most dealers test the cocaine before distribution to protect their own reputations. Somewhere along that system, it'd probably be caught. If some did get through, it'd be very little and would be attributed to bad drug lords and not bad 'terrorists'.

More likely? The Post is fear mongering, AGAIN.

But still, DON'T DO COKE. It may not come from or fund terrorists, but it's still illegal and it'll hurt you.

fightnight · 07-27-2005, 07:32 PM

The coke thing is definitely scary, and intelligent way to go about things, however I don't know if I believe it was really sought out to the point they'd like you to believe. I def. believe it to be something he would think of, but actually doing would be murder (no pun intended) for the cartels.

OFKU0 · 07-27-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

Uhhhh....folks, Is this any indication of the direction of where this Politics forum is heading in? Can we all agree not to "lead" new threads with BS "exclusives" from the NY Post, foxnews .com, or from the "reporting" of Christian "zealot" Joseph Farah?

I'm with you. I stopped reading when the first paragraph in the second story said this;

Quote:

Al-Qaida's prime targets for launching nuclear terrorist attacks are the nine U.S. cities with the highest Jewish populations, according to captured leaders and documents.

I'm not an American but would venture a guess that most ethnic/cultural peoples live in major urban areas, unless they are Mennonites.

Coppertop · 07-27-2005, 09:08 PM

Spiking the coke might be a good way to go about getting Bush. That bin Laden, he's a crafty one.

djtestudo · 07-27-2005, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFKU0

I'm with you. I stopped reading when the first paragraph in the second story said this;

I'm not an American but would venture a guess that most ethnic/cultural peoples live in major urban areas, unless they are Mennonites.

What exactly is the problem with that line from the story.

It explains why they are going after those places instead of cities with lower numbers of Jews. I'm not sure where you're coming from here.

Xazy · 07-28-2005, 04:18 AM

Hmm spike the coke, will it help with the crowding in prisons?

I probably shouldn't make light of it, but for some reason I just do not get scared over that threat.

Dyze · 07-28-2005, 06:35 AM

Sounds to me like a big DEA hoax to make people stop taking cocaine.
Well, I just love urban legends!

Charlatan · 07-28-2005, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

What exactly is the problem with that line from the story.

Quote:

Al-Qaida's prime targets for launching nuclear terrorist attacks are the nine U.S. cities with the highest Jewish populations, according to captured leaders and documents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFKU0 I'm not an American but would venture a guess that most ethnic/cultural peoples live in major urban areas, unless they are Mennonites.

I think he is suggesting that they would blow up a lot of Arabs/Muslims and other people on their side of righteousness as well...

OFKU0 · 07-28-2005, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

What exactly is the problem with that line from the story.

It explains why they are going after those places instead of cities with lower numbers of Jews. I'm not sure where you're coming from here.

Well Charlatan was correct and hit the nail on the head. But usually a first paragraph of any story prefaces the content of said story. This story could have omitted the first paragraph and still retained the point, which was nuclear attacks I believe in major U.S cities.

djtestudo · 07-28-2005, 01:11 PM

Ah, I got you.

Thanks for the help

Marvelous Marv · 07-28-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

Uhhhh....folks, Is this any indication of the direction of where this Politics forum is heading in? Can we all agree not to "lead" new threads etc. etc. ad nauseum

Uhhh.... Host, are you familiar with the term "threadjack?"

Thank you in advance for refraining.

Marvelous Marv · 07-28-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Because certain elements of the conservative right would like to see those who use drugs a)stop using them at any cost b) as decadent left leaning types who need the fear of God in them... That's how I read it anyway, not that this is the case.

Personally, I think it is the floride messing with our precious bodily fluids.

That was exactly my meaning. Well, not the fluoride part, but the other.

Marvelous Marv · 07-28-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

As for the Farah report: I heard it on my way home from work one night on Coast to Coast AM with George Nouri. Now granted that show is great if you are a conspiracy nut, however, even the sanest person cannot dispell that there are possibilities and even if just a sliver of it is true: the suitcase bombs planted by KGB, the sleeper cells coming across, the soviet scientists now working for Osama.... it's all possible.

I haven't seen anyone contest that the former Soviets can't account for a significant number of their nukes.

Quote:

I would argue that the recent bombings and the way supposedly Al Quida has been weakened, is a ruse to lower the guard for a massive attack.

I think it's more of a "conserving their assets" policy than a ruse, but I agree that another attack is being planned, and will eventually occur.

Ustwo · 07-28-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I think he is suggesting that they would blow up a lot of Arabs/Muslims and other people on their side of righteousness as well...

Never stopped them before.

Hardknock · 07-29-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

This wasn't released by the Bush administration, and it did not create a terror alert.

Even so, you didn't have the winning entry in the pool to see who could blame the Bush administration first, regardless of whether or not it's true.

Hardknock slipped in at #4. Let's see, who had that number ...

And you think that Tom Ridge would come volunteer that type of information??

"Ladies and gentlemen, yes I faked terror alerts to scare the shit out of all of you just to make my boss look good."

That'd go over very well.

07-26-2005, 09:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	Uh, I'm not sure why you think the coke thing might be attributed to wingers, it just sounds weird. I doubt it is true, it sounds too, I don't know, airport thriller novel to me. It might be true, that's just my gut reaction. As to the other thing: if there is a realistic chance that there may be multiple nukes in Al Qaeda control within the United States, as well as 40 nuclear weapons total in terrorist hands, then this would be the biggest story since 9/11. And I've never heard it anywhere, it is just found on a winger site. If it starts popping up elsewhere, I might give it a second thought. Until then, I have no reason to believe it isn't just full of shit. EDIT: I just reread that last bit. The info was found on apparantly the "premier" online intelligence site, which just happens to have been founded by the owner of World Net Daily. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

07-27-2005, 05:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	well the drugs story rings 'full of shit' to me. such sensationalism wont rock my boat. OBL's targets wouldnt be druggo's, junkies and addicts, it'd be a target with some political/ financial motive. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

07-27-2005, 06:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	well, we all know that flouride is linked to the problems created by the mineshaft gap. clearly we need to dig more holes. i wonder if the cocaine article derives its argument from the articles you used to see here and there long ago about various plots to put lsd in urban water supplies. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

07-27-2005, 07:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	I'd believe this article just on the fact that I was watching a show on the Colombian drug cartels yesterday on the History Channel and they mentioned this at the end of the show. __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

07-27-2005, 07:44 AM	#13 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	I read the cocaine article yesterday on drudge. at least the drug cartels are business men and know what would put them out of business - like all their customers dying. The news on the nukes isn't new. Pan has been sharing this story with us for months. I don't know how much, if any, of it is true, but I guess we'll find out on Aug 6th. I am sure that Osama has been dreaming of an American Heroshima long before we went into iraq, though. __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

07-27-2005, 04:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	Anyone can come up with a scary plan if they sit and think hard enough about it, LSD in the water, briefcase nukes, nerve gas on the tube, anthrax gently sifted over fresh dollar bills, demolition of skyscrapers (as per the pre 9/11 "Fight Club") switching communual wine for mescalin - and before that it was mutually assured global thermo-nuclear annhilation. That was way more scary. So my advice is, either get over it, or learn to accept the fact that you are going to be very very scared for the rest of your life. Because there is always going to be someone who could destroy everything you care about and you won't be able to do anything about it, whether it's drinking and driving (more deaths than terrorism, just as nasty) youth vandalism (sticking razor blades in water-slides, throwing bricks off bridges onto passing cars and other odious practices), drugs or scientology, there are plenty of ways someone's life can be ruined because of someone elses idiocy.

07-27-2005, 08:48 AM	#14 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	one day, i went shopping for a bentley. of course i had not way of actually buying the bentley--but i went shopping for it anyway. i was hoping for a test drive, i think. following the logic of the article above on nuclear material, because i went shopping for a bentley, i could be argued to already secretly have a bentley, you never know. it is obviously possible that i have a bentley. it is obviously possible that bin laden has nuclear material. i think my having a bentley would be as damaging to any sense of order in the universe as bin laden having a nuke, frankly. luckily, i am in a position to not have a bentley for all kinds of reasons. so it is also obvious that i do not have a bentley, and doubtful that bin laden has nuclear material. but the possibility does function to inflate the status of al qaeda, and of bin laden by erasing the asymetry between the unted states and al qeada. but frankly, if the americans--and the russians, and the chinese, and the other nuclear powers--were really worried about proliferation, all of them would have stopped developing nuclear weapons long ago. which they could have done, just as easily as they continued to produce the weapons and materials. i do not see much in the way of anxiety production that would seperate the possibility that bin laden might have nukes from the official strategies of mutually assured destruction from the cold war period. everyone dies sooner or later. i long ago resolved that if nuclear weapons were used in the states, i would smoke as much pot as possible and drive toward the flash. the traffic would be light heading that way. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

07-27-2005, 09:10 AM	#15 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	If we stop snorting coke the terrorists will have won. No one has had LSD in sufficient quantities to dose a major city's water supply since the CIA stopped distributing the drug in the late 60s. And that's fact, not conspiracy.

07-27-2005, 06:13 PM	#18 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	That reminds me of the storyline from Batman Begins..... It's possible, but not probable. He has basically no known connections with drug lords either north or south of the border, which is the main source of cocaine for US users. He'd have to use an agent in Central America to make the purchase which would catch the attentions of the local druglords (in Central America) who would probably chase them out because they'd be afraid of being under the 'War on Terror' microscope. Then they'd have to move it using new traffic routes (again, because no druglord would tough them). Then they'd have to hook up with new local distributers, which wouldn't be too much of a problem, BUT most dealers test the cocaine before distribution to protect their own reputations. Somewhere along that system, it'd probably be caught. If some did get through, it'd be very little and would be attributed to bad drug lords and not bad 'terrorists'. More likely? The Post is fear mongering, AGAIN. But still, DON'T DO COKE. It may not come from or fund terrorists, but it's still illegal and it'll hurt you.

07-27-2005, 07:32 PM	#19 (permalink)
fightnight Insane Location: The lovely Northeast	The coke thing is definitely scary, and intelligent way to go about things, however I don't know if I believe it was really sought out to the point they'd like you to believe. I def. believe it to be something he would think of, but actually doing would be murder (no pun intended) for the cartels.

07-27-2005, 09:08 PM	#21 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	Spiking the coke might be a good way to go about getting Bush. That bin Laden, he's a crafty one.

07-28-2005, 04:18 AM	#23 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	Hmm spike the coke, will it help with the crowding in prisons? I probably shouldn't make light of it, but for some reason I just do not get scared over that threat.

07-28-2005, 06:35 AM	#24 (permalink)
Dyze Crazy	Sounds to me like a big DEA hoax to make people stop taking cocaine. Well, I just love urban legends! __________________ Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do.

07-28-2005, 01:11 PM	#27 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Ah, I got you. Thanks for the help __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun