Come on Guys

[RAMONES!!!]

My horror at PoW sex abuse pics
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/1,,2003250508,00.html
THE young mum who uncovered the Iraqi PoW sex snaps scandal said last night: “I felt sick to the stomach at those pictures.”

Kelly Tilford, 22, called police after developing a film in her photo shop.

The shocking pictures — revealed by The Sun yesterday — showed male Iraqis apparently forced into sexual positions by their British captors. In another a prisoner was suspended by rope from a fork-lift truck driven by a laughing Brit.

Fusilier Gary Bartlam, 18, of Tamworth, Staffs, is being grilled by the Army’s top criminal investigator — amid fears the scandal is the tip of an iceberg.

Disgusted Kelly said she knew she had to call police after seeing the horrific scenes in Gulf War II snaps she had just developed.

Kelly said: “I immediately realised something terribly wrong had happened and something had to be done about it.

“I started shaking and was panicking in case the guy came back before I could raise the alarm.”

She spoke out last night as Bartlam, of the 1st Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, was in custody.


ONE was apparently taken in a warehouse. It showed a man stripped at least to the waist and suspended high in the air by a rope attached to one of the forks on a fork-lift truck.

More rope bound him throughout the length of his body.

He was hanging horizontally and his frightened face was in close-up. A soldier driving the fork-lift truck could be seen in the background, staring at his victim and apparently laughing.

ANOTHER picture showed a pair of white legs and the head of a male Iraqi.

The hand of a man behind the Iraqi’s head appeared to be forcing him to perform oral sex.

The Iraqi was squatting and again appeared to be at least naked to the waist. The soldier’s face was not visible.

A THIRD picture showed a pair of bare backsides. One Iraqi man was on his knees on the floor with his body bent.

Another was pressed behind him, tightly moulding his body like a spoon in what seemed to be a sexual position.

THE FOURTH snap showed two naked Iraqis cowering on the ground as if thrown there.

Kelly, who has children aged two and eight months, said Fusilier Bartlam called at the Max Spielmann photo shop where she works in Tamworth, Staffs, on Wednesday.

The young soldier, who was home on leave after the war, left a roll of film to be developed into 7in x 5in prints within an hour.

She went on: “I went to the mini-lab. As you put the film through, you are meant to check the pictures on a screen to ensure they are printed properly.

“You have never got time to watch all of them, because you are inevitably doing something else. We had been very busy.

“I had already processed the films of one or two soldiers back from Iraq and had told them, ‘Congratulations, well done,’ when they came to collect their photos.

But when I started cutting the negatives on this batch, I looked at one and noticed immediately that it seemed a bit strange. I took a closer look.

“At first appearance, it had seemed like soldiers having a laugh.

“Then I realised it was a half-naked Iraqi being hauled high into the air by a forklift truck while bound hand and foot.

“I saw the look on his face. He was petrified.

“I will never forget that terrible stare. I immediately thought, ‘That’s not right’.

“Then I saw some sexual pictures. One looked like an Iraqi PoW being forced to give a soldier oral sex. I think the Iraqi was naked — you could just see the top half of him and the bottom half of the soldier.

“There was also a close-up of the naked backsides of two Iraqis, as if they were simulating anal sex.

“Another shot showed two Iraqis lying naked on the ground as if they had just been thrown there. There didn’t seem anything wrong with the other photos. They were just pictures of Iraqi soldiers surrendering — the sort of thing you saw on the TV during the war.”

Kelly, who has only worked at the shop for eight weeks, said: “It should have cost the guy £5.99 but he never paid for those pictures in the end.

“I was worried and waited for my colleague to come back from lunch. She just took one look and said, ‘Oh my gosh — we have got to call the police’.

“We phoned our area manager to tell him what we were doing.

“The lad was due back any minute to collect his photos, so we agreed to tell him they were not ready because there was a problem with the machine.

“He came back before the police arrived. We told him the machine was not working and it would be another half an hour.



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am i wrong, or is this just a little to much?

[WhoaitsZ]

.... what

in

the

fuck

is


wrong


with

humans!?

[Macheath]

That's horrible, I was worried by the suggestion that it may be "the tip of an iceberg". The idea that something like this could be more than a terrible isolated incident is a nightmare for the whole army and the system under which it operates. The guy who took the pictures was 18 - I wonder how old was the oldest soldier there?

And that illustration is absurd - but just the kind of thing 'The Sun' does I guess.

[The_Dude]

PEOPLE, THIS IS THE SUN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

even i think this is complete bull shit, those bastards would do anything to sell papers.

[Macheath]

The_Dude, yeah I know we really shouldn't trust 'The Sun'. Different source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2951888.stm

[MSD]

I think (at least I hope) that this is merely an isolated incident, and that it is dealt with accordingly. I think that the vast majority of troops are good, honest people who are acting responsibly and ethically. To call this "the tip of the iceburg" is, in my opinion, not something that should be thrown around loosely like that. I don't doubt that some people have done the wrong things, but I think that it's sensationalistic and unethical to imply that this is widespread and covered up.

[The_Dude]

where are the real pics, i wanna see

[Sun Tzu]

Macheath I didnt read the side subtitled articles, but while the link does confirm mistreatment, it doenst mention the alleged rape that the Sun mentioned. Im wondering if thats an addition to sleaze up an already bad situation. If its true those men are sick, and will hopefully recieve everything they deserve.

[SecretMethod70]

I think it's pretty silly to think that something like this won't happen with a few "bad seed" troops - it happens with ANY military from ANY country. Not to say we shouldn't be sickened and shouldn't try to prevent it and punish it, but frankly this isn't shocking to me. What's more shocking to me - although rediculous is a better word to describe it - is that some people feel the need to view this as an indication that that must be what all the troops are doing all over Iraq. To me, that's someone grabbing at straws to find new excuses to say why we "shouldn't be there."

[KillerYoda]

That's pretty fucked up, but the picture is rather entertaining.
<img src="http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2003250318,00.gif" border="0" alt="">
"Whaaaaaaaaa!!!!!"

[Macheath]

Sun Tzu, damn good call on noticing the rape detail - we can't let the press use something like rape to sell papers, even if it is The Sun.

SecretMethod70, I don't think it's so much about 'bad seed' troops as about making sure the military has the means to target and remove that element as soon as possible. I think a big part of that would be ensuring that 18 year olds are not left alone guarding POWs even if they are properly trained. Perhaps some of the veterans here might have a more informed opinion on the maturity issue.

As to whether this article illustrates whether we should be there or not - show me an example of this kind of thing happening in Kosovo, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Gulf War I, WWI, etc and my opinion will be the same.

I won't criticize soldiers because nearly all of them are damn fine people - I will object however, when I hear about an alleged failure of the military bureaucracy.

[smooth]

Originally posted by Macheath
I will object however, when I hear about an alleged failure of the military bureaucracy.

Or secrecy surrounding their detainment.

[Simple_Min]

Originally posted by smooth
Or secrecy surrounding their detainment.

On that note:

SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names.

[reconmike]

For the Iraqi soldiers what goes around comes around, nuff said.

[Daval]

Originally posted by reconmike
For the Iraqi soldiers what goes around comes around, nuff said.

I find this response incredibly disturbing.

We are better than them. We adhere to the Geneva convention and do not torture our prisoners.

I hope those responsible spend a hell of a lot of time in jail. They abused their trust, and they embarassed their countries.

[Simple_Min]

Originally posted by reconmike
For the Iraqi soldiers what goes around comes around, nuff said.

So why do you get all tied up in a knot when the other side argues the same about us? 9/11 = what goes around comes around reconmike. I do not think that was "positive". Neither is this situation or what's going on in Cuba and here at home.

[MiCulito]

the forklift thing isn't even all that bad, it's the oral sex that pisses me off. how in the hell can some soldier lower himself to force another man into humiliating himself by having to suck some guys' dick!

[splck]

Originally posted by reconmike
For the Iraqi soldiers what goes around comes around, nuff said.

So you think this kind of treatment is ok? I'm troubled that anyone would condone this behavior.

[XenuHubbard]

Originally posted by reconmike
For the Iraqi soldiers what goes around comes around, nuff said.

"What goes around comes around".
I heard this argument A LOT after 9-11.

Does this mean that it's okay to sexually humiliate anybody you've fought with? It sounds pretty sick to me.

[ganon]

any violations of the law and human decency should be dealt with MOST severely. No one from either side should be allowed to act in an inhuman manner.

[Dilbert1234567]

get the UN in ther to kick sum ass, wait there spineless and cant stand up to the US, and we wonder why little countries want WMD, to protect them selves.