Colonel Bill

The most tragic event in the human kind history was the Russian Revolution 1917. A great nation that made its first steps onto the next level of the economy formation was formed into a totalitarian state, tens millions people were jailed or killed. Without that terrible event, today Russians would be the most advanced nation in the world, both economically and culturally.

Today attempts are made to put the USSR in one line with the Nazi German, to present the WWII events from a different angle. And that is wrong, they were not equal. The horrible monster - USSR fought with the entirely unprecedented - the Nazi German.

The goal of the Nazi German was to rule over the entire world, to kill a lot to make their number small and to enslave the remaining Russians, to eliminate Jewish.

USSR was a horrible state, but the simple Soviet Soldiers fought for life, against the fascism, death and enslavement.

German didn't turn into Nazi in a vacuum. German was allowed to become it. It was a hope that German will turn against the USSR and will stop the expansion of the USSR.

You might not believe it, but consequently to it, England and USA went into the active war with the German very late.

The perception of German as of force against the USSR cost tens millions lives of Russians, Bielorussians and Jewish who were burn in the barns, starved to the death in the concentration camps.

Something more than a mere fear from the USSR did stand beyond this. It was a racism, Russians were perceived as a barbarian nation that shall be stopped by any costs.

Today an attempt is done to hide it all, to blame the USSR, to force the attention unto the fact of conquests that were done by the USSR.

Mind exist in order to find a ways. All the awful costs just weren't necessary, but some minds are very sophisticated.

My Congratulations to the Russia for the Biggest ever Victory! And I wish Russians that victories would not be achieved in that horrible way. Honor to the Russian Soldier and Honor to the Soldiers of all the nationalities.

And shame on the USA and England which allowed the Nazism to grow and today attempt to hide it. Shame on the Estonia, were the former SS people who slew the Russian civilians are now heroes.

Shame on the states and Honor to the people. Honor to the American and British Soldiers, Honor to the people from all the world who brought the Nazi German to the end.

Today many countries express compassion to the Estonia which was conquered by the USSR. I feel no sorry for the Estonians. Besides the Estonian SS that killed Russian civilians, just after the Nazi began their attack on Estonia, the Estonians killed most of the Estonian Jewish.

Seaver

There are a lot of different directions in there, hard to follow one and then switch to another. But lets see here.

I dont know about that.
1) The Revolution was bad... but to say it was the most tragic event ever is far fetched.
2) The Russians were EXTREMELY backwards and lagging behind at the time of the Revolution. I think what you're talking about is how a true communist state was turned into the Soviet system. I'm not going to get into it on how socialism does/doesn't work.
3) To say they'd be the most advanced nation in the world is far fetched as well. Almost all of the technological development boom in Russia (and admittedly America) occured because of captured Nazi scientists. There is no way they'd have been able to do it in a vacuum.

The Nazis were not entirely unprecedented. Inquisitions had been going on in Europe for well over 1000 years by that point, mainly aimed at Jews. The extent of the slaughter in numbers may not have compared, but the percentage was very close in some parts of Europe.

I do see the Soviets as equal to the monster they fought. It's not hard to see that more people died in Siberia than in concentration camps.

I haven't seen any evidence of the European leadership stating anything like this. If you look at the English Prime Minister at the time, though, he was very leanient on the Germans because he believed that the Treaty of Versailles was too strict. He knowingly allowed Hitler to come to power, and break the treaties regulations time and time again. However to say this was to put a cork on the Soviets would be extremely difficult to prove.

Really? Cause England was involved in war with Germany long before Russia was.

America had gone through a isolationalist movement after WWI. They didnt see it as their business.

Huh? EVERYONE knew that Germany and Russia would go to war. Their governments were polar opposite, and had stated (even during the non-aggression pact) that their government sought to see an end to the other.

And who's hiding anything? It's pretty common among historians that the American leadership did not like the Soviet system. Why? because they stated that they sought to spread communism accross the globe. Yes the US/UK military planned to let the Germans and Soviets "bleed themselves white", and anyone who studies history knows that the Soviets played a MAJOR role in being an attrition sponge before the other allies even landed in Normandy.

The US was not THE major world power at the time. It minded it's own business (something we apparently get attacked for wether we do it or take a proactive role). You should throw shame on the European leadership that was litterally next door to all of this and had much more of a vested interest.

So what about those born afterwards. When they could be shipped off to Siberia for little or no reason? No freedoms to speak of... you dont feel sorry for those people cause of what their elderly did?

Locobot

Yeah I might buy into this if I didn't know anything about Russian history before 1917...

arch13

It's a copy of something he posted on his blog, a verbatim copy actually.
I'm not touching this until he comes back (And I'm doubting he will be) and responds tp Seavers points. I have a great deal to say on this subject, and think a discussion is well earned, but I'm not sure this isn't trolling yet.

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roachboy

arch: interesting--do you have a link for this blogversion please?

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arch13

It's in his profile listed as his signature. Not sure why the URL doesn't show up on the post. (Guess he unchecked the show signature box)
It's the only post he's ever made as well. I've seen that before. Just a little while ago we had someone without any previus posts pop into Politics after registering and start posting about the opression of Palistine. And I mean pre-meditated posts like above.
I suspect this is something he's posting on every board possible, though I will be pleasantly suprised if I am wrong.

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Seen on an employer evaluation:

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OFKU0

I vote to lock it up. Maybe a balanced question rather than a sweeping comment. Isn't that the way it is or am I linguistically challenged to the point of seeing no point. Or send it to Philosophy.

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Colonel Bill

I will reply to you soon, meanwhile, I've edited the thread and elaborated some things, please read it now.

hrandani

It doesn't appear as though English is the first language of the Colonel, and as for the content it seems to be equally victimised by his education.

zen_tom

Here's a link to something familiar on another website: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread138971/pg1 (I wont bother pasting the text, since that's been done here already)

Oh, and here's another one!: http://www.enterthemuse.com/board/in...showtopic=7192

Oh, and another!! : http://www.cgjungpage.org/talk/printthread.php?t=4173

I say lock it up - does the Colonel plan on discussing this idea in ALL of these forums?

moosenose

Ever hear of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? The Soviet Union was buddy-buddy with Hitler right up to the kick-off of Barbarossa.

piesen

I was going to say something about this but He is just spewing chunks.
Although both the Russian and German History is a lot more interresting to read than the American and it spans many hundreds of years instead of just a few hundred.

pan6467

While Stalin and Hitler did sign a treaty of non-agression it was not an alliance but Hitler trying to follow one of Bismark's War Doctrines "Let Sleeping Bears Lie - (never attack Russia).... Russia was at the time more worried about Japan.

Let us never forget Stalin also took the war accords of Peter that stated Russia should seek and control a warm water seaport. It truly was just a matter of time between Germany and Russia. The treaty really was just an excuse for both sides to build up, and allow Germany to take Poland without Russian interference.

Once a treaty was established with Japan (that held primarily throughout WW2), Stalin then felt secure enough to build up a front facing Germany. I don't think either side can truly claim they were the agressor/agressee. It was just one of those events where 2 sides were built up suspicious but not combative until one side made a mistake, and that was that.

The Germans would have easily won had not the US and UK been so aggresive in North Africa. That was where the war was truly won. Once the Allies controlled The rock of Gibralter and the oil fields in the Middle East, Hitler was doomed. The whole purpose of Hitler's alliance with Mussolini was to have a warm water seaport for his navy.

Il Duche was nothing more than a Hitler puppet and what killed Mussolini's German support was when Hitler took France and had the French seaports (these seaports were tantamount to the Japan-German trade of information and research). That finished Hitler's need for Mussolini and was probably one of the biggest mistakes Hitler could have made. Letting Italy go on its own with a very unpopular leader forced a 3 front war, as the Allies went up through Italy and left Southern France alone. By going up Italy and then swerving left into more Central France, the Allies then were very effective to cut off the seaports Hitler needed in the winters.

Once those seaports were cut off and Italy was no longer there for Hitler, the tide of the war changed. The British Navy controlled the North Sea and Hitler was too weak as he had put most of his navy into the Med. and French seaports. And with The Rock of Gibraltar in Allied hands his Med. Navy was effectively cut off and destroyed.

So to claim that Russia was truly the one to take Hitler out, is not true. They served the purpose of keeping Hitler's land troops preoccupied so that France fell faster. Just as the US's primary role was to take the Med. and the UK's role was to hold the North Sea.

All three "Allies" did exactly what was necessary and all three achieved the goal.

Had the US failed to control the Med. or the UK failed to control the North Sea or the Russians failed to preoccupy the ground troops...... had one of those Allies failed in their primary objective.... odds are we would all be speaking German and Japanese.

So let's stop this bickering over who did what to end Hitler's tyranny..... because ALL 3 MAJOR ALLIES were responsible in pretty equal terms.

BTW my personal opinion had Hitler not been so bent on a "master race" and had he treated the Jews as equals and not had a Holocaust, he would easily have conquered the world.

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tecoyah

well.....I had kinda hoped to see this go somewhere but....you guys are right


allowing this to stay open sets a bad precedent here....Closed

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