Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-22-2004, 10:02 AM   #41 (permalink)
 
roachboy's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
my theory about this, rekna, is that the folk who support the war, and who continue to believe that there was some linkage between saddam hussein an "international terrorism" do so in part because the terminology used seems to reinforce the linkage between the war in iraq and terrorism---if you hear the words juxtaposed enough, as you take in "reality" through television, it is entirely possible that the words used to frame imagery will come to function as necessary. because they "explain" what you are seeing, which is of course a tightly controlled version of what is happening.

so marketing then.
you call it a resistance movement and you engender a seperation between the war and its presumed justifications, which in turn might have looped more people back onto the series of falsehoods floated by the administration to justify it, which would in turn probably have lost bush the last election.
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite
roachboy is offline  
Old 12-22-2004, 10:46 AM   #42 (permalink)
Banned
 
<h4>(An aside to thread participants who form their opinions based on the "facts",.....no amount of persuasion will influence those of the pro-Bush pro-war mindset that the invasion and occupation of Iraq were, at the least, deadly and wasteful, tactical deadends and costly mistakes, and at most, criminal acts. It may take the deaths of 58,000 American troops, (that is what it took to wake up the pro-war faction 30+ years ago......)
other peoples' kids.....to wake up Bush's delusional supporters, but the facts ain't gonna do it......)</h4>
They have refused to accept the determination of U.S. and U.N. weapons
inspectors that there no WMD found in Iraq that legitimized statements made
by Bush and his appointees making a case for an invasion of Iraq on grounds
that Saddam posed an "imminent threat" to the security of the United States.

They have refused to accept the determination by the 9/11 commission and
of former CIA director George Tenent that no reliable intelligence exists to
legitimize the claim that Saddam was a supporter of and a conspirator with al queda.
Quote:
<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030131-23.html">http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030131-23.html</a>
THE PRIME MINISTER: Adam.

Q One question for you both. Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?

THE PRESIDENT: I can't make that claim.
They have refused to accept that the insurgents fighting against U.S. troops
in Iraq are nearly all Iraqis, or that Bush's claim that we are fighting them
"there" so that we won't have to fight them "here", has no basis in fact.
Quote:
<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-05-detainees-usat_x.htm">http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-05-detainees-usat_x.htm</a>
Suspected foreign fighters account for less than 2% of the 5,700 captives being held as security threats in Iraq, a strong indication that Iraqis are largely responsible for the stubborn insurgency.
Quote:
<a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpost.php?p=1501802&postcount=5">http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpost.php?p=1501802&postcount=5</a>
But according to top U.S. military officers in Iraq, the threat posed by foreign fighters is far less significant than American and Iraqi politicians portray. Instead, commanders said, loyalists of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime — who have swelled their ranks in recent months as ordinary Iraqis bristle at the U.S. military presence in Iraq — represent the far greater threat to the country's fragile 3-month-old government.

"The vast majority of the insurgents in Iraq are local and not foreign fighters," said Captain Ben Connable, the intelligence deputy for the US 1st Marine Division, in charge of the western al-Anbar province.
They ignore the fact that senior Bush administration officials Powell and
Rice made public statements before 9/11 that directly contradicted the
Bushco post 9/11 propaganda attempt to justify invading Iraq:
Quote:
<a href="http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/933.htm">http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/933.htm</a>
We will always try to consult with our friends in the region so that they are not surprised and do everything we can to explain the purpose of our responses. We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions -- the fact that the sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose.<h4> That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq,</h4> and these are policies that we are going to keep in place, but we are always willing to review them to make sure that they are being carried out in a way that does not affect the Iraqi people but does affect the Iraqi regime's ambitions and the ability to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and we had a good conversation on this issue."
Quote:
<a href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0107/29/le.00.html">http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0107/29/le.00.html</a>
National Security Advisor, Dr. Rice, date July 29, '01:
"(Larry) KING: Still a menace, still a problem. But the administration failed, principally because of objections from Russia and China, to get the new sanctions policy through the United Nations Security Council. Now what? Do we do this for another 10 years?

(Dr. Condoleeza) RICE: Well, in fact, John, we have made progress on the sanctions. We, in fact, had four of the five, of the permanent five, ready to go along with smart sanctions.

We'll work with the Russians. I'm sure that we'll come to some resolution there, because it is important to restructure these sanctions to something that work.
<h4>
But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.</h4>

This has been a successful period, but obviously we would like to increase pressure on him, and we're going to go about doing that."
host is offline  
Old 12-22-2004, 11:35 PM   #43 (permalink)
Insane
 
[QUOTE=host]<h4>(An aside to thread participants who form their opinions based on the "facts",.....no amount of persuasion will influence those of the pro-Bush pro-war mindset that the invasion and occupation of Iraq were, at the least, deadly and wasteful, tactical deadends and costly mistakes, and at most, criminal acts. It may take the deaths of 58,000 American troops, (that is what it took to wake up the pro-war faction 30+ years ago......)
other peoples' kids.....to wake up Bush's delusional supporters, but the facts ain't gonna do it......)</h4>


Personally, i dont think this should be an "aside". That is the bottom line. Never has this country been so polarized by bush lovers and bush haters. As you said, facts dont matter.

One of my favorite expressions is this: Dont bother me with the facts, i know what i know.

I just pray to God that this wrong headed war doesnt cost Americans the loss of 57,000 men and women before cheney finally figures out it isnt worth it.
Mobo123 is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 12:21 AM   #44 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Seaver's Avatar
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Quote:
I hope one day you see the world through my eyes as well, I wish all Americans would
Yeah.. America would suddenly become a much happier place (ignorance is bliss afterall).

Look, the reason they are called "insurgents" and not minutemen is because Iraqis themeselves refuse to believe another Iraqi would target civilians who are simply trying to buy a meal for that day with a car bomb.

They call their own "minutemen" and "patriots" insurgents, it didnt just start because Bush wanted something easy to call them.
Seaver is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 01:34 AM   #45 (permalink)
Rail Baron
 
stevo's Avatar
 
Location: Tallyfla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdr4evr
Insuts? Did I somehow insult you Stevo?
No, but I never said you insulted me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdr4evr
This recent tragic event would have never occurred if Bushie wasn’t a war mongering, selfish, arrogant, greedy, money grubbing, lying religious nut job. In the end, the "terrorists" you mention are no different then Bush. Both murder in the name of God.
look like insults to me.
stevo is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 04:47 AM   #46 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Watches the next reply

I do so hope....the rebuttal is civil
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:06 AM   #47 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
Facts are definitely in the eye of the beholder when it comes to politics.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:32 AM   #48 (permalink)
Banned
 
Looks like it's time for one of Mesphisto's quotes of the day:
"It's easier to persuade a thousand people with emotion, than one person with reason" - Ron Smith,WBAL (well that's where i heard it anyway)
matthew330 is offline  
Old 12-23-2004, 09:40 AM   #49 (permalink)
Banned
 
Rdr4evr's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver
Yeah.. America would suddenly become a much happier place (ignorance is bliss afterall).
You got it backwards. Most Americans are already ignorant regarding the situation in Iraq and the "war on terra" in general. It is those who believe we are actually there to stop terrorism and bring the Iraqi people, who are in dire need of help from the Americans, liberation and peace.

You see, since Bush is relatable with most of the American public, they would believe anything that comes out of his mouth, as well as all the bias non-sense that comes out of the mouth of the media.

Ignorance is indeed bliss, until it back-fires, which in time, it will.

Quote:
Facts are definitely in the eye of the beholder when it comes to politics.
That seems about right.
Rdr4evr is offline  
 

Tags
attack, base, dead, iraq, leaves


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:38 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360