Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - A soldier describes Fallujah

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I am perfectly mellow, and it wasn't just Ustwo or Daswig I'm referring too. A lot of people feel that way and can do nothing but spew random non-sense online, hell, even offline for that matter and don't do nothing BUT talk. If anyone needs to "mellow the fuck out", it is you. And who is this Jesus Christ character you refer to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

It's easy to promote idealism and peace, but that is what is Naive.

Their is a cold hard reality out there, we are at war with a real enemy.

Whose more irrational, me for thinking their is no decent way of dealing with this, or you for thinking there is?

And who is preaching Genocide?

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

That's Daswig, a few posts up. Killing civilians on a regular basis and/or massive scale is a war crime. Thousands of Iraqis losing their lives is not just a "bad" thing. We're getting sorely unable to even see them as human. We're supposed to be bringing freedom or something? Our role in inflicting mass death on the Iraqi people not only harms them, but rots our souls. When you cease to see the object of your violence as human, you've become a monster.

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

Women.

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

Children.

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

The elderly.

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

Families.

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

Civilians.

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

Innocents.

"We should level it. I'm talking on a Biblical scale....fire and brimstone, pillars of salt, the whole enchilada."

Humans made in the image of God.

Such talk is not war. It is the depraved corruption of power, and the worst of sins. If you're kidding? Fine...whatever. I often joke about committing murders...or other desecrations of human dignity. Other people suffering is teh funnay. You're not? See above.

gee, and what drew me into this thread is the following:

Quote:

For a time, this frightening urban battlefield became a pulsing
cacophony of strange and deadly sounds. The mosques in the city
broadcast calls to jihad through their speakers. F-18's fired 3,000
rounds a minute in bursts that sounded oddly like burps. AC-130 gunships
droned overhead, their big cannons going thunk, thunk as they found
targets.

Perhaps strangest of all, the American troops brought in their own
"psyops" trucks - for psychological operations - and blared sounds that
created a nightmarish duet with the mosques: old AC/DC songs, something
that sounded like a sonar ping, the cavalry charge."

Urban Warfare Deals Harsh Challenge to Troops
By DEXTER FILKINS

Published: November 9, 2004

because i was interested in the usage of old ac/dc as a weapon.

and i find myself in "the return of the trailerpark johnwaynes" yet another installment in the ongoing "kill em all let god sort em out" series of very military fantasies of massacre, brought to you commercial free by your friends in conservativeland.

and you wonder why the other 48% is not happy that you folks are again in power.

frankly, imagining armored milktruck blasting bon scott period ac/dc driving around in fallujah in the middle of street fighting is less a problem than trying to figure out what some of you folks are thinking when you indulge the bloodlust thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

I'm curious as to where these figures come from.

I'm not disputing them, but I do doubt statements without references.

Certainly, beyond doubt, there are lots of foreigners fighting in Iraq (and I'm not talking about Americans or Poles).
Also certain, beyond doubt, is that there are lots of Iraqis fighting in Iraq.

Common sense and statistical probability would imply that the majority of the "fighters" are therefore Iraqi.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Mr Mephisto

I know this isn't proof of anything other than there may or may not be fighters of other countries there:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3079806/

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...news-headlines

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/01/in...8ded8a&ei=5070

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1074594/posts

However I did find this too:

http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle4632.html

But then there was this report, I don't know of it's authenticity:

http://www.theroughwoodsman.com/archives/001201.html

Anyway, just a few links.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=581298

Okay, Fallujah is now captured but the victory seems to be... not so effective:

Quote:

US 'pacifies' city but rebels take violence to rest of country
By Kim Sengupta in Camp Dogwood

10 November 2004

US forces reached the centre of Fallujah yesterday after hours of street fighting and barrages from artillery, tank and helicopter gunships. As night fell, the Americans announced that they had captured key strategic targets and were carrying out house-to-house searches.

The Pentagon said that at least 10 US and two Iraqi soldiers had died since the offensive began on Monday night. Reports of insurgents' deaths vary between 12 and 42. Iyad Allawi, the Iraqi interim Prime Minister, claimed that troops had detained 38 insurgents entrenched at the hospital.

Even as US commanders were declaring that the rebel stronghold would be "pacified" very soon, the price being paid for the victory was becoming evident in the carnage being visited around the country. It appears that many of the insurgents who had been based in Fallujah slipped out of the city and moved to other parts of Iraq before the offensive.

The estimates given by the US military about the numbers of insurgents in Fallujah have varied. Two weeks ago it was claimed there were 6,000 heavily armed militants, including the Jordanian terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in the city. However, small groups of fighters, sometimes no more than 20 strong, have attempted to engage the Americans, who vastly outnumber and outgun them, before fading away.

The explanation of what had happened to those missing fighters could be found, perhaps, in what happened elsewhere in Iraq yesterday.

Hundreds of armed men entered Ramadi, taking over government buildings, while in Baquba, north of Baghdad, 45 people, including 25 policemen were killed in a series of attacks. Eleven people died in bombings in Baghdad, and an attack on a National Guard headquarters in Kirkuk killed three people.

There was also political unravelling, with one of the main Sunni groups, the Iraqi Islamic Party, resigning from the Iraqi government in protest at the assault. "The American attack on our people in Fallujah has led and will lead to more killings and genocide without mercy from the Americans," said its leader, Mohsen Abdel Hamid. The Association of Muslim Scholars, an influential group of Sunni clerics, called for a boycott of next January's planned elections which were, it said, being held "over the corpses of those killed in Fallujah and the blood of the wounded".

There were reports from Fallujah that almost 500 Iraqi government troops * almost a battalion * had refused to fight alongside the Americans, a repetition of similar incidents when US forces attacked the city last April. In Washington, Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, said: "I would characterise it as an isolated problem."

The government imposed an indefinite night-time curfew in Baghdad. Officials said there was "credible evidence" that militants escaping from Fallujah had regrouped in the capital and were planning more attacks.

Colonel Michael Formica, the commander of the 1st Cavalry Brigade, said in Fallujah that escaping fighters were a real problem. "My concern now is only one * not to allow any enemy to escape. As we tighten the noose around him, he will move to escape to fight another day. I do not want these guys to get out of here. I want them killed or captured as they flee".

Intermittent fighting was under way in the northern sectors of Fallujah, with at least two American tanks reported to be engulfed in flames. Despite meeting fierce and, at times, sustained resistance, senior officers of the army's Task Force, of the 1st Infantry Division, said they had not encountered any of the more than 120 "suicide cars" supposedly waiting for them packed with explosives. However, other units reported that they had found booby-trapped buildings.

By midday, US armoured units, attacking from the north, had made their way to the highway running from east to west through the city centre and crossed over into the southern part of the city. One of the objectives surrounded by US forces was the al-Hidra mosque half a mile inside the city. According to the American commanders, the mosque was being used as an a weapons dump and planning centre for militants, and will be captured in due course with Iraqi government troops leading the way.

US troops are using Fallujah's main railway station as a forward base and detention centre. Iraqi government troops brought in nine handcuffed prisoners from the Jolan area, where many of the militants are said to have gathered. They said two were Egyptians and one was Syrian.

Captain Robert Bodisch, a Marines tank company commander, said: "They are putting up a strong fight ... these people are hardcore ... A man pulled out from behind a wall and fired an RPG [rocket-propelled grenade] at my tank. I have to get another tank to go back in there."

Local people claimed US warplanes bombed a clinic, causing many casualties. The main hospital was captured by US and Iraqi government forces on Monday, when, according to government figures, more than 40 "terrorists" were killed.

So, the rebels bailed out and took the carnage out to other cities. I really like the quote from the Colonel about not letting any rebels to slip out. Well, this blunder just likely cost him his next promotion.

I think we need to take our man pills and destroy the mosques in the town. The terrorists use those sacred places as hiding and planing points. Our guys die because we leave the holy sites intact. However, if we destroy the mosques, we won't know where meet...

I dunno. I wouldn't like the idea of opposing armies coming here and destroying churches, but I wouldn't be suprised when they'd be attacked.

Erm...

I don't believe the "pacification" has been achieved at all. I have no idea what the Independent meant by that headline.

Quote:

'Heavy fighting' ahead in Falluja

The US officer in charge of the assault on the Iraqi city of Falluja has warned that fighting in the rebel stronghold could become even more intense.

Lt Gen Thomas Metz said he expected several more days of heavy fighting as his forces try to crush insurgents.

The US military said soldiers reached the centre of the city on day two of the major assault, and that 10 US and two Iraqi soldiers had been killed.

Relief groups say they are deeply worried about the fate of civilians.

A man who fled the city told the BBC the streets were littered with bodies.

'Tough urban fighting'

On Tuesday, the US-led forces attacked Falluja with tanks, artillery and aircraft as their soldiers advanced to the city centre.

US and Iraqi forces have been fighting street by street with rebels armed with rifles and mortars.

An American tank commander said US troops were killing insurgents whenever they saw them.

Lt Gen Metz, the multinational ground force commander in Iraq, said that troops were achieving their objectives on or ahead of schedule.

But the fight for the city was far from over, he said.

"I think we're looking at several more days of tough urban fighting," he told reporters at the Pentagon via a videophone.

But he added that he assumed that many of the insurgent leaders, including Abu Musab al-Zarqawi - the Jordanian militant blamed for car bombings, kidnappings and beheadings - had fled before the assault began.

In Washington, President George W Bush praised the US-led forces in Falluja.

"Our prayers are with the soldiers and their loved ones, as they're doing the hard work necessary for a free Iraq to emerge," he said.

However, Iraq's largest Sunni-led political party, the Iraqi Islamic Party, pulled out of the interim government in protest at the Falluja assault.

The main association of Sunni clerics also voiced its disapproval, calling for a boycott of elections due in January.

Meanwhile, Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, using the emergency powers he activated on Sunday, imposed an indefinite night-time curfew on Baghdad.

Concern for civilians

The United Nations refugee agency and the International Committee of the Red Cross have expressed concern about the civilians in Falluja.

Most of the city's 250,000 civilians fled the city before the offensive began, but up to 50,000 are estimated to remain there.

FALLUJA ASSAULT FACTS
Up to 15,000 US and Iraqi troops involved
Estimated 3,000 Iraqi insurgent and foreign fighters in city
Estimated 30,000 civilians remain out of usual population of more than 250,000

The BBC's Paul Wood - who is with US troops outside Falluja and whose reports are subject to military restrictions - says that despite efforts by US forces to select targets carefully, their use of heavy artillery and tanks is bound to lead to civilian casualties.

BBC Arabic Service reporter Fadhil Badrani said the city was in complete darkness, with the rubble still smouldering from the day's artillery bombardment.

Residents say water, as well as electricity, have been cut off.

The assault on Falluja is aimed at stabilising Iraq ahead of January's poll.

The Sunni Muslim city has been a hotbed of resistance to US-led troops following the toppling of Saddam Hussein last year.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...st/3998049.stm

Published: 2004/11/10 01:42:09 GMT

Also worth reading:

Falluja Assault Q&A - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3993809.stm
Urban warfare tactics - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...ml/default.stm

Mr Mephisto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargeman

I know this isn't proof of anything other than there may or may not be fighters of other countries there:
[...]

Just for the record, here are two more:

Few Signs of Infiltration by Foreign Fighters in Iraq

Insurgents Are Mostly Iraqis, U.S. Military Says

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukethebandgeek

That would also create more insurgents and more terrorist recruitment outside of Iraq...so in the end it's a bad idea

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

..i'm slowly becoming convinced that "The United States of Canada" is the best idea democrats have ever come up with. .

Please, leave my country out of this. We love our country just as it is thanks.
;) :D

The bridge where the American contractors were killed, mutilated and then strung up back in April.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ujahbridge.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...fallujahps.jpg

I still say that a nuke will cure the terrorists of thinking we're "weak".

FYI, they weren't contractors, they were mercenaries (hired guns).

Powerclown, the picture you linked first seems to be second chronologically; the "FUCK YOU" is blacked out in that one and the soldier appears to be writing something above it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kadath

Powerclown, the picture you linked first seems to be second chronologically; the "FUCK YOU" is blacked out in that one and the soldier appears to be writing something above it.

Looks more like the fuck you was highlighted a bit rather then blocked out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammer4all

FYI, they weren't contractors, they were mercenaries (hired guns).

Good. 'bout time we leveled the playing field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Looks more like the fuck you was highlighted a bit rather then blocked out.

As I look at it, you might be right. I suppose such a pithy and intelligent statement bears emphasis.

http://www.m90.org/./gallery/video/falluja.asf

Here is a pretty good video I found on the internet.