Mephisto2

Listen mate, you're turning this into something it's not.

I was trying to be concilatory towards you. I just think using the words "your bullshit threads" wasn't nice and pointed that out. Then I replied to you saying "I don't care if you disagree", which only meant that I fully support your choices and opinions, that I don't mind if you disagree with me or others. Perhaps I could have worded it more carefully, but I just assumed it was clear.

I repeat, chill...


Anyway, I'm off the weekend. Hopefully everyone will still be friends when I get back.


Mr Mephisto

cthulu23

Ummm, because one is choice and the other is not? Because one is illegal and the other is not? I'm all for reforming drug laws, but your analogy is specious. The war on drugs is a seperate issue.

Lebell

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Charlatan

Let me get this straight... Right is the new Centre?

"However you slice it, the homosexual movement is part of the FAR LEFT in this country..." Tell that to seretogis.

As an aside... I find it interesting that none of the usual right wing suspects has arrived to back up J8ear (ustwo, irate, et al.)

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Stompy

The very example of hypocrisy I speak about! Damn, and that post reeks of it more than most others I've seen so far! Not only that, but you describe them as "abnormal"

Haha, yeah, I'm sure some of the stuff you do behind closed doors is considerd normal (Hypocrite count: +1)

If you don't want others shoving their lifestyle down your throat, then you most certainly cannot do it right back! By banning gay marriage, you're following through with the very thing you're complaining about. In fact, they aren't shoving their lifestyle in anyone's face, they're demaning the same rights you get. (Hypcrite count: +2)

"Live and let live, but DO NOT shove your lifestyle down my throat." is perfect. You got that part right, but you must also follow through with what you believe and take your own advice. This also goes for any moral legislation that's passed to the rest of us - live your life how you want, but don't tell me how to live mine.

You're no more special than they are

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I love lamp.

KMA-628

cool, my name isn't on the list.

smooth

you're in the et al

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

psyday

I'll be happy if Ashcroft is just gone, too bad we can't shake Rumsfeld and Cheney too though.

I honestly don't think much is going to change in the next 4 years. We will see though.

j8ear

Are the only counter points that I am a hypocrite or that none of the right wing posters back me up?

How does my abnormalities make me a hypocrite? Do you understand the meaning of the word?

What's next? Pointing out my spelling errors. Oh please someone resort to that tactic.

Does anyone have ANYTHING constructive to add? Anything reasonable? Exasperation, and ad hominens don't cut it.

Your appeals to emotion are appreciated, however not particularly poignant to this discussion or effective in making your argument.

Get a clue people. Please don't make me say this again: I AM ON YOUR SIDE, but continue to deplore your methods. You do nothing but insult, degrade, and lie about things I never said, and express similar disgust with those not particularly on board with your agenda.

Continue with your campaign of maligning your audience, slandering and hating your opposition, and see how far it gets you.

It's really no surprise the left is handed it's ass OVER AND OVER AGAIN. It's also very sad, because the alternative is really no better. I now know who to blame for all the ills in this country. The left for being so freakishly ineffective at providing any reasonable opposition to the current holders of the conch.

-bear

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It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

D Rice

I think Bush will do what he thinks is best for America. Sure he is a Republican but i think Bush is firm in what he believes and i don't think he really cares what others think especially now the election is over

Willravel

Spelling errors and hypocracy do not equate in this conversation.
The far left isn't handed any 'ass'. We debate, politick, and retort just as any other group. Our effectiveness being called into question, I must say that the left does just as much good as the right. It also does as much harm. At least on the surface. It is very dangerous to your opinion to assume that all of the far left consists of raving, angry consipracy nuts and Bush haters. You act as if the malign the left gives is unwarranted. We are trying to address some very serious problems that need addressing. To be honest, most of us are damned mad about it. Do you blame us for our anger? It is just this anger that resluts in the sometimes overpowering messages we give. *BUT* Not all of the messages we give are so malicious. Many of our claims are clean, organized, based on very good information, and are delivered civally. Don't follow in suit with the rest of the Bush backers; actually listen to what we have to say with an open mind before beating us over the head with Christian morals and Second Gulf War stories of American heroism. Don't just automatically buy into every Jessica Lynch and WMD you are handed. In questioning the information you are given, you raise the probability of finding the truth.

If that came off as a deplorable method, I whole heartedly apologize.

TheHuntingone

I dont think this will cause any changes in Bush. I feel that he his manipulated by others (his family and the other republicans) for his actions.

Its his last mendate but its of course not the last one for republicans (oh well :P).

j8ear

It wasn't deplorable at all. I would like to point out that I haven't mentioned a single thing about a second gulf war hero or spewed a single piece of christian moralism...NOT ONE.

I've listened. Very closely. I've read, very intently. The gist of the lefts disappointment with this election in particular is an ingnorant, brainwashed, and hate filled electorate, blinded by what most seem to think is exclusively christian extremism. Even you just accused me of that.

It hasn't worked and won't work. It's time for change of tactic.

I have been quite stuanch in my support of the homosexual agenda, and similarly opposed to the technique of name calling and slandering your audience. I'm clearly out of my league in this forum, but feel vindicated none-the-less with the population in general.

I'm a canadian, and me and my immediate family are all canadian immigrants to the US. We are naturally very progressive, and open-minded, yet I'm the only one on board with the homosexual agenda. The only one. My family hates being label with vile adjectives, for which they do not qualify, and I suspect most Americans feel likewise. I'm also the right wingest of the lot of us. Anecdotel sure, but hopefully enlightening.

It's not just the elections in general. It's the initiatives in support of the gay agenda. These fail resoundingly....this why the left is 'handed it ass'...over and over again. Somethings amis and seriously so. The venom of those who responded to my opinions in this thread alone. No logic presented, no facts argued, just plain ole appeals to emotion and exasperated holier then thou righteous indignation. These don't forward the cause. Not one single bit.

All this because I suspect that most of the Bush administrations policies are generally centrist in nature, since the VAST majority of the electorate endorses them. This election was close for one reason and one reason only. IRAQ, imho. Pure unadulterated hatred for the foriegn policy direction of President Bush. Every single other issue went squarely with the current administration.

Mr Memphisto, started this thread to discuss the direction of the Bush Administration in the second term. I argued it will continue to be centrist if not somewhat left of center, in light of the federalization of education, huge citizen entitlement, and protectionist trade policies already on the table from this administration. I continue to believe this.

best,

-bear

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It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

Ilow

As i have already mentioned in this thread, the idea that Bush is anywhere near the "center" is laughable, and the idea that he could be "somewhat left of center" preposterous. In the first place, he wouldn't even know where to begin, and in the second, his most ardent supporters, many of whom certainly border on reactionary (I'm looking at you Ashcroft and Rumsfeld) would pull him back into the party line. The fact that they were reelected does not make them less Conservative, it just means that a significant portion of the population has a strong right wing slant. I also disagree that Iraq was the point that made the election as close as it was. I have spoken to many Bush supporters (you have to work a little to find them in a "blue" state) and most of them feel that the Iraq war is justified, even without Weapons of Mass Destruction. And these are highly educated people, mind you; there's a whole other set of people who, when polled, still believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

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Willravel

Ah, well put. I understand much better now what you are trying to say. Yes, I agree that it is time for a change in tactic. Clearly our protests and angry letters were not the correct course of action. Maybe it's time to take a direct role in the 'fight for media control', so to speak. The partisan antics of the major news networks are an interesting tool of politics, and trying to foce them into a less partisan role would be a nice step. For now, I suggest watching the Free Speech TV network ( channel 9415 on Dish Network). It is a public station that has no corprate funding. It is the closest thing to non-partisan that you'll ever see on TV.

BTW, I just got that the 8 in your name representts a 'B'.

cbr9racr

LOL...so I guess he wasn't positive before?

Ustwo

You know Bush has TWO 'far' right things he is looking for.

Gay marriage ban.
Allowing government money to assist in faith based charities.

If you think the partial birth abortion ban is far right you might wanna see one.

Everything else he has done has basically been middle road, and this INCLUES Iraq, you might want check a history book, but its not as if only Republicans send people to war.

While I've seen the left lament that the Republicans have made 'the middle' seem like far left, calling Bush a 'far right' president is a joke.

A far right president would not have grossly expanded the prescription drug plan.
A far right president would not have grossly expanded spending on education.

Privatizing 2% of social security is NOT far right, its a baby step to save a system that IS GOING TO COLLASPE if things are not changed.

Reforming the tax code is not a far right idea, again its common sense. It shouldn't require an accountant to figure out what you really owe in taxes. Also the real rich like Kerry will end up paying MORE as the loopholes go bye bye.

Tort reform is not far right, like it or not the Dems are so deep into the trial lawyers pockets that they will never address this. This has been an issue for the last two decades. Lawsuits consume (not including pay offs to plaintiffs) 2.5% of our GDP. That’s double any other western republic. Its time to fix it.

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Manx

It is far right to prevent them in cases of medical necessity. It is far right to claim the legislative or executive branches of gov't can determine that there is never a medical necessity. Anti-abortion = Far Right.

A prescription drug plan that is grossly expanded to benefit the drug companies. Throw money at Big Pharm = Right.

Spending on education which doesn't reach the levels required, resulting in a failed plan but a good talking point. Double-speak your "compassion" = Right.

Social Security is not going to collapse for atleast 60 years, but who knows for sure, considering every couple of years the "imminent" collapse date is pushed another 5 or 6 years away. Privatize for no reason = Right.

Do you honestly believe "reforming" the tax code is going to make accountants unnecessary? "Reforming" the tax code is obviously nothing more than a "lower the taxes for the wealthy" code. Cut taxes for the wealthy = Right.

Tort reform is anathema to democracy. Tort cases are the last line of defense against Big Business for the people. The government was supposed to be the defense against Big Business, but since the government is in the pockets of Big Business, tort is the only thing left. Protect big business = Right.

Bush = Solidly right, throw in the moral values factor and he's far gone.