KMA-628

I am not really one to post a link found on Fark, but this one intrigues me. Also, this falls under the realm of politics and could very well be discussed/debated without the usual BS around here.

Yes, I am as opinionated as most around here, but I honestly think this topic could transcend the usual games here.

The issue: A person dies after filling out (and possibly mailing) an absentee ballot; does the vote count.

***Disclaimer***

Don't bash parties here. None of the bullshit about Republicans do this or Democrats do that, you will only dilute and negate your point

***Disclaimer***

My opinion: I am not firm either way. I can see the reasons where the vote should be counted and I can see the reasons where it shouldn't. Try as I may, I cannot come up with a reason(s) to be 100% either way.

I am probably leaning towards counting the vote. I am as prone to accepting emotional arguments as the next person as this quote from the article got me:

And of course, Florida is a major topic in this article:



What do you think?



LINK

djtestudo

If their votes are legally filled out and cast, why shouldn't they count?

This isn't like those stories you hear about someone who has been dead for a decade voting in every election since. This is a vote cast by someone, who after voting, passed on.

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runtuff

I question the reasoning behind allowing anyone to vote before an election. But there are exceptions, soldiers over seas, pt. in the hospital, etc. the question is just how often does this occur where the voter dies???

My opinion is if you voted early it should count regardless. Its not like you knew you were going to die!

KMA-628

djtestudo -

Right, but votes don't count until the 2nd correct?

If the person isn't alive on the 2nd, isn't it similar to some of the "dead people voting" issues we have heard about?

I think the strongest argument regarding not counting the votes is the potential for fraud. How do you know if the person really voted? How do you know if someone else didn't fill out the ballot and send it in? There is absolutely no way to verify the vote as legitimate as is possible with an absentee ballot filled out by someone that is still alive.

This one is a toughie because I think both sides of the argument have valid points.

Averett

It should count. They were alive when they cast their ballot.

There's no way to verify that I voted for myself in the last election. Nobody checked my ID. I was asked my name and that was it. So somebody else could have voted in my place.

The voting system isn't perfect and it never will be.

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kutulu

The number of people that die after casting absentee ballots is very small compared to the total votes. Trying to track down those ballots before they are counted would be a nightmare and lead to legal battles when they (eventually) accidentally remove legit votes.

balderdash111

I certainly sympathize with the emotional argument, but, for me, cold logic takes over:

the point of voting is to put someone into office who will represent your voice in political affairs. If you are dead, you no longer have a voice in political affairs. Therefore, votes by dead people should not count.

Of course, as someone already pointed out, enforcing such a rule would be a nightmare. Do you have to call up every old granny to see if she's still around before tallying her vote? What if she is in a coma?

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Lebell

No.

Votes are for the election on November 2nd, and part of the elegibility requirements for that election are that you be alive.

Otherwise, you have a moving target subject to the absentee voting laws.

For example, what is to stop a state from deciding you can cast a vote one year into the future? (Say for a democrat or republican.)

Two years?

Five years?

So no and no again.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Averett

Then we should stop having early voting and people should only be allowed to mail their absentee ballots on Election day. Any ballots that are post marked before that date shouldn't count.

Right?

Like I said, our election system is very, very flawed. There will always be problems.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

zenmaster10665

Yeh, but then people like me, who are voting absentee would never determine the outcome of the elections....they would be decided before the ballot even arrived on US soil.

I can definitely see both sides of this issue, however, if the person filling out the absentee ballot dies, the vote should be counted...how would you ever be able to check and see if all voters who cast a ballot by absentee were still alive? That is a logistical nightmare.

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He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
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daswig

If they're dead on election day, they are no longer eligible to vote. Period. Absentee ballots are NOT meant to allow people to vote early, and I have some very serious doubts about the constitutionality of allowing "early voting". "early voting" to me strikes me as an invitation to fraud. I'd rather see a national holiday on election day where all businesses were encouraged to close so that the people can vote than have early voting. yeah, we'd have some loss of productivity, but it would help preserve the integrity of the voting process, and get rid of the "vote early, vote often" mentality that's so prevalent with some organizations.

Of course, I'd also like to see the laws relaxed to allow the use of lethal force to protect campaign signs. If people knew they could get shot for stealing them, they'd stop stealing them.

zenmaster10665

That is just silly.

I hate the signs. they should be outlawed alltogether. We are bombarded by politicians enough without having ugly-ass signs all over the place.

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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut

Stompy

Nah, it's fine.

People vote early. There's people I know who voted weeks ago. If they died tonight, their vote would (and should) still count.

There's no obligation anywhere that states you have to be alive on the day it's counted.

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kutulu

Look at the big picture here. The amount of voters that die in the time between they send their vote by mail and the day it is counted is statistically insigficant.

daswig

So if somebody wants to cast their votes for the next 500 years, they should be allowed to, and it should count?

Stompy

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. You know, because I, along with everyone else, has this AWESOME ability to see into the future!

These types of mindless responses are annoying... c'mon, use some common sense...

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zenmaster10665

this isnt about casting votes for future elections. This is about early voting within the current year's election. You cant vote on ballots that are yet to be created...

__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut

daswig

You certainly can create a legal document telling your executors how to cast your vote in the future...

Stompy

OK, and who said anything about doing that? I didn't. The article didn't.

I'm talking about people who already voted for THIS ELECTION, you're talking about elections 500 years from now... is there some hidden text in my previous post that I don't know about or something?

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zenmaster10665

no, you can't as you would not be physically casting the vote.

In order to vote absentee, you muct physically sign the document and have 2 witness to prove that it was signed.

I dont see that happening if you are pushing up daisies.

__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut

daswig

Tell that to the dead people in Louisiana who are STILL voting Democratic....

Stompy

Ah yes, the vast conspiracy to get at the republicans!

So... they just vote democratic, right? Not republican?

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Lebell

No.

There are absentee votes for a good reason.

As you said, the system is flawed, but I also never said that election commisions should check to see if absentee voters have died. It would be an impossible task as well as statistically insignificant.

That being said, I stand by my earlier statement and when a voter is recognized as deceased, then they should be taken off the elegible voter list and any further votes from them discounted...even if they had filled it out while alive.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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KMA-628

Daswig -

you just can't do it, can you?

This thread had nothing partisan about it until your comment.

D Rice

To take this discussion further. Does anyone remember the candidate running for governor in Missouri who died before the election but was still on the balot and won? That is mest up. Should that have been allowed? I don't think everyone agrees about the deceased votes counting or not but what do yall think about candidates running who are already dead? Tuesday and the days following will be the definition of a debacle but can you image if Kerry or Bush were seriously injured or killed a day before the election? What would we do then?

Boo

I believe that you must be alive to have your vote heard. The close of voting should be the requirement. If there is not a law in the books stating this requirement, then there should be one. Voting is like driving, it is a privilege. You must be alive to drive.

Votes cast by people that are no longer a part of the living should be respectfully cremated.

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zenmaster10665

Let's keep partisan discussions out of a thread, for once, shall we?

__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut

zenmaster10665

oops....already posted coverage

__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before.
He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-Kurt Vonnegut