What John Kerry does NOT want you to see... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Undercover_Man · 10-18-2004, 02:56 PM

Link leads to a movie clip where Kerry essentially says he doesn't like Saddam.

Please give more info about links before posting them.

-lebell

Thought this was funny and retarded

Hope this hasn't been posted yet
LINKY

- Undercover_Man

martinguerre · 10-18-2004, 06:34 PM

its funny...he says "keep the pressure on"...which he maintains to this day.

he doesn't say "invade prematurely with a small coalition."

the fun of clipping...but it's really quite ineffective.

matteo101 · 10-18-2004, 06:45 PM

Have you not heard him say HUNDREDS of times, that he doesn't disagree with dealing with Iraq, he disagree's with the way BUSH did it. God, watch the fucking debates.

rukkyg · 10-18-2004, 06:46 PM

And at the same time, they have half the republican base believing that Kerry would never have invaded Iraq. It just doesn't make any sense.

docbungle · 10-18-2004, 07:11 PM

Sigh.
I watched the whole thing, and it did nothing other than frustrate me the lengths people will go in trying to manipulate and take out of context just about everything John Kerry Says.

seep · 10-19-2004, 03:44 AM

Hey, it's almost like Michael Moore decided that he hates Kerry all of a sudden.

rukkyg · 10-19-2004, 06:37 AM

Except the point they were trying to make didn't even come through. Kerry's stance, as he clarifies it today, has always been that: Saddam was a threat; there was a right way to handle it, and a wrong way; Bush choose the wrong way; I would have choose the right way.

The propaganda piece here fully support this statement.

This doesn't mean I completely agree with Kerry on this issue. Unfortunatly, most of the country does (just not the Democrats).

seep · 10-19-2004, 12:12 PM

Yeah, the "stay the hell out of there and let fucking Israel handle their own problems" would have been my approach, but what can you do?

filtherton · 10-19-2004, 12:13 PM

I bet john kerry doesn't want me to see his swimsuit area. We're not really that close.

Ruse · 10-19-2004, 12:23 PM

How is that funny? It just shows him being consistant with what hes saying now.

alto92 · 10-19-2004, 12:26 PM

where oh where is undercover? appears like another hit 'n run to me...

quicksteal · 10-19-2004, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docbungle

Sigh.
I watched the whole thing, and it did nothing other than frustrate me the lengths people will go in trying to manipulate and take out of context just about everything John Kerry Says.

It's quite obvious in the Democratic debate John Kerry said that Bush did the right thing, and now what's he saying? His tune has changed slowly but surely, doing his best to back away from all of his votes in the Senate. The scary thing is that he might still get away with it.

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quicksteal

It's quite obvious in the Democratic debate John Kerry said that Bush did the right thing, and now what's he saying? His tune has changed slowly but surely, doing his best to back away from all of his votes in the Senate. The scary thing is that he might still get away with it.

Sigh....Kerry said that taking down Saddam was the right thing to do but that the way Bush did it was incorrect...that has been the consistent message. I don't happen to agree with Kerry's position, but that, as they say, is the truth.

Kalibah · 10-19-2004, 01:51 PM

Kerry on Iraq is one of the best documentrys IVE EVER SEEN. ALL FROM THE HORSES MOUTH!

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

Kerry on Iraq is one of the best documentrys IVE EVER SEEN. ALL FROM THE HORSES MOUTH!

I'M SURE THAT A PARTISAN DOCUMENTARY GAVE A REAL FAIR TREATMENT OF THE ISSUE.

Kalibah · 10-19-2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

I'M SURE THAT A PARTISAN DOCUMENTARY GAVE A REAL FAIR TREATMENT OF THE ISSUE.

ALL CLIPS AND QUOTES

And this is part of the documentry

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

ALL CLIPS AND QUOTES

And this is part of the documentry

Have you ever heard the terms "out-of-context" or "creative editing?"

Kalibah · 10-19-2004, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

Have you ever heard the terms "out-of-context" or "creative editing?"

have you watched the documentry??

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

have you watched the documentry??

I have now....I should have included the term "omitting contradictory evidence" to the list that I gave earlier.

Here's what factcheck.org had to say about a Bush commercial that made the same claim:

Quote:

Kerry has never wavered from his support for giving Bush authority to use force in Iraq, nor has he changed his position that he, as President, would not have gone to war without greater international support. But a Bush ad released Sept. 27 takes many of Kerry's words out of context to make him appear to be alternately praising the war and condemning it.

Here we present this highly misleading ad, along with what Kerry actually said, in full context.

This ad is the most egregious example so far in the 2004 campaign of using edited quotes in a way that changes their meaning and misleads voters.

Kalibah · 10-19-2004, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

I have now....I should have included the term "omitting contradictory evidence" to the list that I gave earlier.

Here's what factcheck.org had to say about a Bush commercial that made the same claim:

except the Bush ad that it refers to isnt the clip in question

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

except the Bush ad that it refers to isnt the clip in question

The Bush ad and the linked video are making the exact same claim......

Edit: here's the relevant part of the quote from factcheck.org that I pasted above

Quote:

Kerry has never wavered from his support for giving Bush authority to use force in Iraq, nor has he changed his position that he, as President, would not have gone to war without greater international support.

Kalibah · 10-19-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

The Bush ad and the linked video are making the exact same claim......

except the Bush ad doesnt have John Kerrys own words
and this does.
It isnt distorted to post his own quotes...

As Dick Cheney said - Kerry was for the war- and fine with the way we went about it- until opinion polls showed Dean was ahead because of his antiwar views...

but why bother having this discussion-
people for Kerry will see it as partisan
people for bush see it as for bush
and well
are there any undecided?

Kalibah · 10-19-2004, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

The Bush ad and the linked video are making the exact same claim......

Edit: here's the relevant part of the quote from factcheck.org that I pasted above

well he stated that

Sep 6, 2002:* "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."

then

Mar 17, 2004: *"For a President, the decision may be lonely, but that does not mean that America should go it alone

oh so its okay to go in " mostly at the hands of the united states" but then says we shouldnt got at it alone

1 stance? no

again we agree to disagree

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

except the Bush ad doesnt have John Kerrys own words
and this does.
It isnt distorted to post his own quotes...

As Dick Cheney said - Kerry was for the war- and fine with the way we went about it- until opinion polls showed Dean was ahead because of his antiwar views...

but why bother having this discussion-
people for Kerry will see it as partisan
people for bush see it as for bush
and well
are there any undecided?

Do i need to post that same quote again?

Quote:

Kerry has never wavered from his support for giving Bush authority to use force in Iraq, nor has he changed his position that he, as President, would not have gone to war without greater international support.

That statement has nothing to do with the text of the Bush ad....it's truth exists outside of that context. There is no contradiction and the linked video is only so much misleading noise.

By the way, Dick Cheney isn't the most reliable source for accurate views on Kerry.

Kalibah · 10-19-2004, 03:20 PM

Kerry has never wavered from his support for giving Bush authority to use force in Iraq, nor has he changed his position that he, as President, would not have gone to war without greater international support.

He is waivering- because he said that the president reserves the right to go in unlelaterlay, then saying that going in alone was wrong - isnt flipflopping ...

cthulu23 · 10-19-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalibah

well he stated that

Sep 6, 2002:* "If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."

Hmmm, I think that I've seen that particular quote floating around here quite a bit. Would you like to read an "in-context" version of it?:

http://www.johnmccrory.com/wrote.asp?this=255

Quote:

For the sake of our country, the legitimacy of our cause and our ultimate success in Iraq, the administration must seek advice and approval from Congress, laying out the evidence and making the case. Then, in concert with our allies, it must seek full enforcement of the existing cease-fire agreement from the United Nations Security Council. We should at the same time offer a clear ultimatum to Iraq before the world: Accept rigorous inspections without negotiation or compromise. Some in the administration actually seem to fear that such an ultimatum might frighten Saddam Hussein into cooperating. If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act. But until we have properly laid the groundwork and proved to our fellow citizens and our allies that we really have no other choice, we are not yet at the moment of unilateral decision-making in going to war against Iraq.

Emphasis mine.

hannukah harry · 10-19-2004, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulu23

Have you ever heard the terms "out-of-context" or "creative editing?"

my guess is that he thinks that only michael moore does that. a republican/conservative would be above that sort of thing.

10-18-2004, 02:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Undercover_Man Insane	What John Kerry does NOT want you to see... Link leads to a movie clip where Kerry essentially says he doesn't like Saddam. Please give more info about links before posting them. -lebell Thought this was funny and retarded Hope this hasn't been posted yet LINKY - Undercover_Man Last edited by Lebell; 10-19-2004 at 10:20 AM..

10-18-2004, 07:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	Sigh. I watched the whole thing, and it did nothing other than frustrate me the lengths people will go in trying to manipulate and take out of context just about everything John Kerry Says. __________________ Bad Luck City

10-18-2004, 06:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	its funny...he says "keep the pressure on"...which he maintains to this day. he doesn't say "invade prematurely with a small coalition." the fun of clipping...but it's really quite ineffective.

10-18-2004, 06:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
matteo101 In transition Location: north, no south abit, over to the right, getting warmer...there!	Have you not heard him say HUNDREDS of times, that he doesn't disagree with dealing with Iraq, he disagree's with the way BUSH did it. God, watch the fucking debates.

10-18-2004, 06:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
rukkyg Loser Location: RPI, Troy, NY	And at the same time, they have half the republican base believing that Kerry would never have invaded Iraq. It just doesn't make any sense.

10-19-2004, 03:44 AM	#6 (permalink)
seep Tilted	Hey, it's almost like Michael Moore decided that he hates Kerry all of a sudden.

10-19-2004, 06:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
rukkyg Loser Location: RPI, Troy, NY	Except the point they were trying to make didn't even come through. Kerry's stance, as he clarifies it today, has always been that: Saddam was a threat; there was a right way to handle it, and a wrong way; Bush choose the wrong way; I would have choose the right way. The propaganda piece here fully support this statement. This doesn't mean I completely agree with Kerry on this issue. Unfortunatly, most of the country does (just not the Democrats).

10-19-2004, 12:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
seep Tilted	Yeah, the "stay the hell out of there and let fucking Israel handle their own problems" would have been my approach, but what can you do?

10-19-2004, 12:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I bet john kerry doesn't want me to see his swimsuit area. We're not really that close.

10-19-2004, 12:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ruse Crazy	How is that funny? It just shows him being consistant with what hes saying now.

10-19-2004, 12:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
alto92 Upright	where oh where is undercover? appears like another hit 'n run to me...

10-19-2004, 01:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
Kalibah Insane Location: Padded Playhouse	Kerry on Iraq is one of the best documentrys IVE EVER SEEN. ALL FROM THE HORSES MOUTH!

10-19-2004, 03:20 PM	#25 (permalink)
Kalibah Insane Location: Padded Playhouse	Kerry has never wavered from his support for giving Bush authority to use force in Iraq, nor has he changed his position that he, as President, would not have gone to war without greater international support. He is waivering- because he said that the president reserves the right to go in unlelaterlay, then saying that going in alone was wrong - isnt flipflopping ...