The Two Faces of Bill Burkett - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 09-17-2004, 09:35 AM

Read each story, tell me if they could be written about the same man?

Quote:

Suspected CBS Source Is Well-Regarded Texan
Democrat Lives Among GOP Voters

By Sylvia Moreno
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 17, 2004; Page A05

BAIRD, Tex., Sept. 16 -- For half a dozen years, Bill Burkett has lived a pretty uneventful life in this tiny West Texas town. He and his wife are regulars at the Whistle Stop Cafe, ordering bacon cheeseburgers with jalapenos and fries or the pork chop special on Mondays. He "visits," as people like to say in these parts, with other ranchers over coffee at the Callahan County Farmer's Co-Op. And like other polite locals, he drops in on the local elected officials to introduce himself.

He is, by most accounts, a nice man who, in an overwhelmingly Republican-voting area, might be seen as somewhat eccentric for his Democratic bias.

"I've made comments to him like, 'I think there's only two Democrats left in Callahan County, and I'm both of them,' " said Pete Mendez, 65, a retired federal firefighter who has lived in the county all his life. " 'It's three of us, if that's the way you look at it' is kind of what he's said."

Despite several requests, Burkett has said nothing publicly since Wednesday, after he was named in news reports as a possible source of the disputed documents CBS News's "60 Minutes" used in a Sept. 8 broadcast that said President Bush received preferential treatment while he was in the Texas Air National Guard.

In adjacent Taylor County, which includes the city of Abilene, Burkett is viewed as an intelligent activist or statesman of sorts by Democratic officials -- the crusading voice against what is wrong with the Republican Party in general and with Bush in particular.

"He's very bright; he's not a hayseed," said Royse Kerr, chairman of the Taylor County Democratic Club, which last spring invited Burkett to speak to the members about the "state of politics in America."

Burkett, a retired lieutenant colonel in the Texas National Guard, mentioned then what he had told several reporters last winter -- that he believes Bush aides ordered the destruction of portions of the president's National Guard record because they might have been politically embarrassing. But that was "tangential" to "the framing of his thesis," Kerr said. "What we heard was to demand more honesty of our politicians."

The authenticity of the "60 Minutes" documents has been hotly disputed since the report bringing them to light was aired. After Burkett was named as a possible source of the papers, The Washington Post reported on Thursday that the documents faxed to CBS bore markings indicating that they had been faxed from a Kinko's in Abilene, 21 miles east of here. The day after, no one who knew Burkett here would comment about whether he could have been the source.

"I have no idea; I have no individual knowledge about that," said David Haigler, chairman of the Taylor County Democratic Party. "All I know is that I trust Bill Burkett. He's been a citizen soldier who decided to stand up and say what is on his mind, and he's got nothing but grief for it."

Haigler said Burkett had received several death threats since his name surfaced as a possible source for "60 Minutes." "There's just a lot of crazies out here, but Bill Burkett is not one of them. And if the issue is whether Bill Burkett concocted a bunch of records, that makes me want to throw up," Haigler said.

Kerr also called Burkett a person of integrity who, he believed, would not fabricate information.

"I describe Colonel Burkett as a person I would trust with my life or my wife," Kerr said. "The people that know him would pretty much agree with that assessment. He's a very devout Christian and a preacher's son."

Burkett has frequently posted notes to an Internet message group for Texas Democrats, urging other members to work harder to defeat Bush in the election, but also lambasting Democratic nominee John F. Kerry for "one of the worst run campaigns I've seen in my lifetime."

"Many of us have risked everything on this election," Burkett said in a message posted on Aug. 31. "The disappointment is deep and difficult to manage. But we fight on, in spite of incompetence at the top."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Sep16.html You need to register, last time I did I got spam from a bunch of companies so this time I used a fake email.

Quote:

Texan has a history of attacks on Bush
Possible CBS source has had his credibility questioned before
By MICHAEL HEDGES
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau

PRESIDENTIAL RACE

WASHINGTON - Bill Burkett, who has emerged as a possible CBS source for disputed memos about President Bush's Guard service, has a long history of making charges against Bush and the Texas National Guard.

But Burkett's allegations have changed over the years, and have been dismissed as baseless by former Guard colleagues, state legislators and others.

Even Burkett has admitted some of his allegations are false.

Burkett wrote a long indictment against Bush for a Web site in 2003 in which he said he personally was ordered to "alter personnel records of George W. Bush." In that article, Burkett said that when he refused he was sent to Panama as punishment, where he contracted a disabling disease.

But when asked about that charge by the Houston Chronicle in February, Burkett said, "That statement was not accurate, that is overstated."

Burkett, 54, of Baird, Texas, has refused to return calls since the CBS report on Bush's Guard service ran last week.

On Thursday, the Washington Post and the New York Times named Burkett as a possible source for documents CBS used that experts have called fakes. The documents were faxed from a Kinko's in Abilene, the closest commercial copier to Burkett's home in Baird.
Associated Press
The home of Bill Burkett near Baird, Texas, is seen Thursday. Burkett, a retired National Guard officer, has been cited in reports in Newsweek and The New York Times as a source for CBS' report on President Bush's National Guard service. Burkett's lawyer, David Van Os, issued a statement saying Burkett "no longer trusts any possible outcome of speaking to the press on any issue regarding George W. Bush."

The CBS report used documents signed by since-deceased Texas Air National Guard Lt. Col. Jerry Killian to suggest Bush disobeyed a direct order to take a flight physical in 1972.

If Burkett is the source of the CBS documents he must have recently obtained them.

In earlier interviews, he described years of fruitless searching.

One month ago, in an essay posted on a progressive Web site, Burkett theorized that Killian would have been a likely person to know more about Bush's service. But, he conceded, "I have found no documentation from LTC Killian's hand or staff that indicate that this unit was involved in any complicit way to ... cover for the failures of 1Lt. Bush ... " Burkett went on to say, "On the contrary, LTC Killian's remarks are rare."

Several people with connections to the Texas National Guard immediately suspected Burkett was the source of the CBS report last week, and saw it as part of an ongoing vendetta against Bush and the Guard.

Burkett's attorney, David Van Os, said Thursday, "My client has not authorized me to talk about this matter." Van Os issued a statement saying Burkett "no longer trusts any possible outcome of speaking to the press on any issue regarding George W. Bush."

The questions about the CBS documents' authenticity have seemingly overshadowed the larger questions about Bush's Guard service.

CBS anchor Dan Rather on Wednesday conceded there were questions about the authenticity of the documents, but challenged Bush to answer questions about his Guard service. White House spokesman Scott McClellan responded by saying, "It is always best for journalists to stick to reporting the facts and not try to dispense campaign advice."

Questions remain about the documents used by CBS. Experts have said they are fake. Killian's wife and son have said they do not reflect his feelings about Bush, and have called his signature a forgery. Texas Guard officials noted many technical discrepancies that they said cast doubt on the documents.

And Marian Knox, Killian's 86-year-old former secretary, said she never typed the documents and believes they are fake. But Knox said they did reflect concerns Killian had with Bush's Guard service.

Anti-Bush background

If Burkett does prove to be the source of the documents, CBS got them from a man with a well-established history of Bush loathing.

In an article Burkett wrote for the Internet last year he compared Bush to Hitler and Napoleon as one of "the three small men" who sought to rule through tyranny. "Three small men who wanted to conquer and vanquish," Burkett wrote. Burkett confirmed authorship of that article in the February Chronicle interview.

Some of Burkett's friends and associates say they don't know whether he is the CBS source.

Harvey Gough, a Dallas restaurant owner who, like Burkett, fought a legal battle against the Guard, said Thursday, "I can't say he did it or he didn't do it." But Gough said Bush aides such as Karl Rove or Dan Bartlett could have "cooked them up" to trap CBS with a bogus story. That has been denied by Bush officials.

James Moore, co-author of the book Bush's War for Re-Election, which quoted charges made by Burkett, said Thursday, "I know Bill has anger at Bush and the Guard, but I have a difficult time thinking he'd take that kind of risk to fabricate documents."

One person who has heard Burkett's charges against Bush and the Guard over the years is Rep. Bob Hunter, an Abilene Republican who chaired a committee overseeing the Texas Guard. Hunter agreed to let Burkett make charges of favoritism, mismanagement and abuse by the Guard at a legislative hearing in the late 1990s.

Hunter said Thursday he came away unimpressed. "He brought up matters that none of us could believe."

That Burkett's story has changed or evolved over the years is a matter of record.

During Bush's first White House run in 2000, Burkett told reporters he overheard both ends of a phone conversation between former Texas Guard commander Gen. Daniel James III and Bush's one-time Texas chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, that he said occurred in the summer of 1997. That was similar to what he told Hunter's committee, the lawmaker recalled.

But that claim changed earlier this year.

In February, Burkett said he witnessed documents from Bush's records in a garbage can at a Guard base in Austin.

"My eyes fixed on the first page," he said in an interview in February. "It had Bush, George W. Lt1. What I did next still bothers me. I browsed through the top five or six pages."

Everyone who could have supported the account, including George Conn, the friend who Burkett said took him to the office, said it wasn't true. Allbaugh, now a Washington consultant, called the story "baseless ... hogwash."

Texas Guard officials said no Texas Air Guard records had ever been stored at the facility Burkett named.

Burkett said in interviews earlier this year that his long-standing campaign against the Texas National Guard and Bush began after the Guard failed to provide medical care for him after he contracted a tropical disease in Panama in 1998.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2799919

Ok, the Washington Post story has him as a great guy, and political crusader type.

The Huston Chronical has him as a Bush hater and partial loon.

For fun, which story would you trust more? Why do you think its more accurate?

roachboy · 09-17-2004, 09:52 AM

i assume that this is posted as a kind of demonstration of your "thesis" about these two papers, which you will no doubt extend into a general argument about "the media".

if that is the objective, why be coy about it? you obviously have an argument you wish to make, so why pretend otherwise?

are you willing to entertain objections concerning the status of anecdotal evidence?
you can "prove" anything you like if you control the sample and the rules for generalization.
even you should know this.

from this follows the question of whether this exercize is a waste of time or not.

just getting the ground rules straight.

Ustwo · 09-17-2004, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

i assume that this is posted as a kind of demonstration of your "thesis" about these two papers, which you will no doubt extend into a general argument about "the media".

if that is the objective, why be coy about it? you obviously have an argument you wish to make, so why pretend otherwise?

are you willing to entertain objections concerning the status of anecdotal evidence?
you can "prove" anything you like if you control the sample and the rules for generalization.
even you should know this.

from this follows the question of whether this exercize is a waste of time or not.

just getting the ground rules straight.

There are no rules, I made no comment on which I think is true or why, its a simple exercise. I am asking for opinion not word games or verbal obfuscation.

irateplatypus · 09-17-2004, 10:14 AM

the porcupines are getting prickly, eh ustwo?

roachboy · 09-17-2004, 10:20 AM

and so you answer the question about whether it is or is not a waste of time for me to play this game.
thanks, ustwo.

filtherton · 09-17-2004, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Read each story, tell me if they could be written about the same man?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Sep16.html You need to register, last time I did I got spam from a bunch of companies so this time I used a fake email.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2799919

Ok, the Washington Post story has him as a great guy, and political crusader type.

The Huston Chronical has him as a Bush hater and partial loon.

For fun, which story would you trust more? Why do you think its more accurate?

I know which one you think is more accurate. Which one is completely unbiased?

nanofever · 09-17-2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

I know which one you think is more accurate. Which one is completely unbiased?

HAHA you lose, nothing can be completely unbiased.

I think I am up one point by defeating Filtherton, Roachboy. I'm currently pretending this thread is like the story from Highlander where "their can only be one".

Also for the on-topic portion of my reponse, I don't usually believe regional papers over large national papers regarding regional stories. The large national papers seem to have less invested in a particular regional story and will be accordingly less bias.

filtherton · 09-17-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanofever

HAHA you lose, nothing can be completely unbiased.

I think I am up one point by defeating Filtherton, Roachboy. I'm currently pretending this thread is like the story from Highlander where "their can only be one".

Also for the on-topic portion of my reponse, I don't usually believe regional papers over large national papers regarding regional stories. The large national papers seem to have less invested in a particular regional story and will be accordingly less bias.

Cue "Princes of The Universe"

Here we are.born to be kings.
We’re the princes of the universe.
Here we belong.fighting to survive.
In a world with the darkest powers.
And here we are.we’re the princes of the universe.
Here we belong.fighting for survival.
We’ve come to be the rulers of your world.
I am immortal.i have inside me blood of kings.
I have no rival.no man can be my equal.
Take me to the future of your world.
Born to be kings.princes of the universe.
Fighting and free.got your world in my hand.
I’m here for your love and I’ll make my stand.
We were born to be princes of the universe.
No man could understand.my power is in my own hand.
Ooh.ooh.ooh.ooh.people talk about you.
People say you’ve had your day.
I’m a man that will go far.
Fly the moon and reach for the stars.
With my sword and head held high.
Got to pass the test first time - yeah.
I know that people talk about me I hear it every day.
But I can prove you wrong cos I’m right first time.
Yeah.yeah.alright.watch this man fly.
Bring on the girls.
Here we are.born to be kings.we’re the princes of
The universe.here we belong.born to be kings.
Princes of the universe.fighting and free.
Got the world in my hands.i’m here for your love.
And I’ll make my stand.
We were born to be princes of the universe.

I have inside me blood of kings.

Ustwo · 09-17-2004, 06:05 PM

Come now, no one has anything to say about the differences of these stories other then 'I think national papers are better then regional ones'?

sprocket · 09-17-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Come now, no one has anything to say about the differences of these stories other then 'I think national papers are better then regional ones'?

Of course not. The classic "stick your head in the sand like an ostrich defense" that you get accused of doing all the time Ustwo. If you ignore it, it doesnt exist. Draw your own conclusions about media bias from this example, I doubt it will lead anyone to draw any conclusions they dont want to see. At the very least this further discredits CBS report. How can two supposedly objective news sources paint a individual so differently when it should be pretty cut and dry?

filtherton · 09-18-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Come now, no one has anything to say about the differences of these stories other then 'I think national papers are better then regional ones'?

I know how you feel,

somebody

never answered my question either.

09-17-2004, 09:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i assume that this is posted as a kind of demonstration of your "thesis" about these two papers, which you will no doubt extend into a general argument about "the media". if that is the objective, why be coy about it? you obviously have an argument you wish to make, so why pretend otherwise? are you willing to entertain objections concerning the status of anecdotal evidence? you can "prove" anything you like if you control the sample and the rules for generalization. even you should know this. from this follows the question of whether this exercize is a waste of time or not. just getting the ground rules straight. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-17-2004, 10:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	the porcupines are getting prickly, eh ustwo? __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-17-2004, 10:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	and so you answer the question about whether it is or is not a waste of time for me to play this game. thanks, ustwo. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-17-2004, 06:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Come now, no one has anything to say about the differences of these stories other then 'I think national papers are better then regional ones'? __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.