Saving Private Lynch story - true ? lies ? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

andyc · 05-15-2003, 07:31 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/3028585.stm

Just wondering what people think of this story

Liquor Dealer · 05-15-2003, 08:56 AM

I think it is one story out of many. I doubt seriiously we will ever know what actually happened that day. This is the first I have heard of an automotive accident. This is a really good spin on the story from an Iraqi point of view - they had loaded her into an ambulance and were taking her back to the US when they were attacked by US troops and turned back - How would one then account for those who were buried outside of this hospital and if it were true, why were those who had been taken prisoner and were uninjured not taken back and released. One might ask why had these prisoners been separated? Wjy were they in dirrerent locations? Why was Lynch's ID found in an office in Baghdad? There are way too many whys to give a lot of credence to this report when it is as far off as it appears from all other accounts of this incident.

4thTimeLucky · 05-15-2003, 09:01 AM

IF they did do this, then I don't think its that bad. They were simpling showing the news in a good light, not straight out lieing.

But IF true then it doesn;t do much service to the special operations units who do this sort of work. They are supposed to be elite soldiers, working behind the scenes. Using them as movie actors and firing blanks, IF true, completely demeans them and their good work.

reconmike · 05-15-2003, 09:31 AM

The only thing I find suspect in the whole story is the blanks thing, remember it was still a combat zone,
and I find it hard to believe that the powers that be would send any troops into a combat zone with blanks.

Will we ever know if she was shot? Maybe if she does a playboy spread.

Bill O'Rights · 05-15-2003, 11:34 AM

I'm with Liquor Dealer on this one. I also doubt that we will ever know for certain what <b>really</b>happened out there.

I do question the amount of publicity that Jessica Lynch has gotten. By that I mean, would she have gotten the attention that she has were she not a nineteen year old little cutie? Now, before I get stomped like a wine grape here, I'm not detracting from anything that she or any of her rescuers have done. All I'm saying is that I feel that she is being singled out, by being the "all American girl-next-door" for PR purposes.

The_Dude · 05-15-2003, 12:31 PM

it is from bbc and i do trust them quite a bit.

i think i'd believe a version that's a compromise between the 2.

Jesus Pimp · 05-16-2003, 06:23 AM

Quote:

The BBC quotes Iraqi doctors as saying the dramatic rescue was staged by the American military, and that troops were firing blanks as they were photographed storming the hospital where Lynch was being treated.

The BBC also says that two days before the rescue, Iraqi doctors tried to bring Lynch back to American lines, but their ambulance was fired on and returned to the hospital.

There's no comment from the Pentagon.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/051...cuestaged.html

It's a shame if it proves to be true.

Kadath · 05-16-2003, 06:28 AM

I would tend not to believe this due to lack of corroboration, but I certainly wouldn't put it past us to do it. The war was made media consumable from day one.

Liquor Dealer · 05-16-2003, 06:38 AM

This has already been posted once.

http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?threadid=6892

Dragonlich · 05-16-2003, 06:53 AM

It's possible that this happened. The stories seem plausible, apart from some details: the ambulance being shot, or the blanks, for example.

If the American government needs a nice story to go along with Lynch's rescue, so be it. She was rescued, and is now safe and sound, back in the US. The guys that rescued her are still great soldiers in their own right; after all, if the story is true, they did risk their lives for some good publicity...

Simple_Min · 05-16-2003, 08:39 AM

Quote:

The war was made media consumable from day one.

War: The Ultmiate Fox Reality TV show.

Dragonlich · 05-16-2003, 09:34 AM

By the way, there was an interesting comment on the BBC website about this story...

This whole article seems to be based on the testimonies of two Iraqi doctors. Why didn't the BBC check with the US doctors about the alleged bullet wounds of Lynch? Why didn't the BBC check with any other source at all, in fact?

One might take a look at this story and dismiss it as a feeble attempt by two Iraqi doctors to make themselves seem innocent and friendly. Perhaps they're hiding something, maybe some not-so-friendly things they did to some of the POWs... This explanation is as logical and persuasive as the other option, that the US administration made the whole incident up, and lied about it to get free publicity.

The great thing about this story is that nobody will change their opinion after reading it. One believer asked, if this story was false, why did the US government not say that? I, a sceptic, might retort: why would they say anything at all if the story is (obviously) false?

Anti-US people will accept this as the real story behind the Lynch affair, and will dismiss as propaganda any US insistence that the story is made up - after all, Bush & co would say that, wouldn't they???

Pro-US people will see this story as obviously fake, and will think up some reasonable arguments why these Iraqi guys would lie. After all, of course these Saddam-supporters would lie, wouldn't they???

crumbbum · 05-16-2003, 02:03 PM

It seems pretty ridiculous to believe the claims of 2 Iraqi doctors over all of our own and all the other sources of information we have. Obviously this has become a big PR event, but that's a good thing- it makes soldiers braver if they know they won't be abandoned if captured. I don't doubt that they did beat on the girl, or worse. We don't know the whole story. But the idea of special forces pulling a hollywood stunt with blanks and whatnot sounds pretty ridiculous, especially in a warzone, as was mentioned before. It's hard to take this very seriously.

Dilbert1234567 · 05-16-2003, 11:06 PM

sounds about right, its not like they have any reason to lie (the docters)

oh well smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors

KillerYoda · 05-17-2003, 02:03 AM

It's just another one of those stories that people come up with to make things more interesting, like the old "she never denied her faith" story from the Columbine incident.

crewsor · 05-17-2003, 06:06 AM

I don't believe for a second they had tried to turn her over to us. Why only her? What about the rest of the POWS? Do you really think the US Army would be in a war zone firing blanks? Suppose they did think it was safe, do you think they would take the risk of entering hostile territory with blanks. I don't buy it.
It may not have been as high risk as portrayed, but I don't think this report is exactly accurate either.

magic_hat · 05-17-2003, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Simple_Min
War: The Ultmiate Fox Reality TV show.

you are so right! they ate that shit up. I wouldnt doubt that this is true....its pretty ironic that she suffers from amnesia. Back in the early 1900's it was quite common place to fake news in the newsreels.

i dont like the american media because i thought that they always twisted stuff around to make Us look good...but now if we are getting fake news i really think its a shame.

darkmagex · 05-20-2003, 05:13 PM

Just the title of this thread shows how stupidly PR this whole damn thing became very very quickly.

rth9821 · 05-20-2003, 06:17 PM

Interesting interview with the corrospondent of the BBC story.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...nch/index.html

Quote:

Instead of all of us relying on your five-minute, very professional, very carefully edited film, which was immediately transmitted from Central Command to the world's broadcasters, why don't you give everybody what's known in the profession as "the rushes"? Give everybody all the unedited film, the real-time film, as shot by the U.S. military cameraman who was with the rescue mission, and that will put everybody out of all questions of doubt. They declined to do that.

In the military's defense, I can see how providing an unedited copy might reveal sensitive information on how special forces perform rescue missions. At least that's the way I would spin it.

guthmund · 05-21-2003, 12:27 AM

I would say with just the two Iraqi doctors testimony this story is hardly damning.

Wasn't she shipped to Germany? If you were going to write this story, I'd think you'd get some confirmation from outside sources other than 'Iraqi doctor #1' and 'Iraqi doctor #2.'

Of course....who am I kidding....confirmation....from a newstory....

*cough Jayson *cough cough Blair

warrrreagl · 05-21-2003, 07:17 AM

From the first day they found her, my wife was ADAMANT that the whole thing was fishy. She was convinced through some female magic sensation that Lynch's story was mostly fictional.

You can't begin to imagine the smug look on her face these days.

Macheath · 05-21-2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragonlich
This whole article seems to be based on the testimonies of two Iraqi doctors. Why didn't the BBC check with the US doctors about the alleged bullet wounds of Lynch? Why didn't the BBC check with any other source at all, in fact?

Lynch was taken to a military hospital in Germany. The commander of the hospital, Colonel David Rubinstein reported that the evidence "did not suggest that any of her wounds were caused by either gunshots or stabbing."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/05/16/pvt_lynch/

http://www.iht.com/articles/92177.html

Were the Iraqis lying about their treatment of Lynch?

Quote:

Pam Nicolais, who has served a spokesman for the Lynch family, said that the Iraqi accounts corroborate what the family has been hearing from Lynch herself.

"That goes along with what Jessi told us," she said.

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/2003/May/05/LNtop1.htm

The day after the Herald Dispatch article:

Quote:

U.S. government sources are telling me that they are concerned about Jessica's mental and physical state saying that she can not remember anything after the moment that the 507th Maintenance Company, her military unit, was ambushed… she also can not remember anything about her days in captivity and the brutality that U.S. military officials believe that she endured.

http://www.foxmarketwire.com/story/0,2933,86185,00.html

NOW she has amnesia.

And so it goes...

guthmund · 05-21-2003, 09:10 PM

Thanks for the articles, Mac.

A couple of my instructors were in the military, one in special forces, and they didn't understand why the military wouldn't release the uncut, uneditied film. They also smelled something fishy when this story first came out; One of them told me "everything was packaged just a little too neat..."

take that for what it's worth.

The_Dude · 05-22-2003, 04:21 AM

yeah, the amenisa thing just really made me skeptical.

this is just too much of a co-incidence.

maybe i'm too skeptical

reconmike · 05-22-2003, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by guthmund
Thanks for the articles, Mac.

A couple of my instructors were in the military, one in special forces, and they didn't understand why the military wouldn't release the uncut, uneditied film. They also smelled something fishy when this story first came out; One of them told me "everything was packaged just a little too neat..."

take that for what it's worth.

So your "special forces" instructor cant understand why they wont show film of how the spec ops were inserted or extracted huh?
Thats pretty funny, because I had to sign a whole shitload of secrecy papers when I was in a spec op unit, so why the hell would the US release vids of tactics and such?

guthmund · 05-23-2003, 12:50 AM

I don't know....I'll be sure and direct your scathing questions to him when I return this semester. Maybe he's full of shit and likes to brag to impress the kids. To be honest, I've no friggen' clue, but thanks for your positive reply on topic....

As for special operations training and tactics....I learn quite a bit from the Discovery family of channels, but then again, I'm not in the military and couldn't possibly understand...right?

Charlatan · 05-23-2003, 05:19 AM

Regardless of whether the event was "real" or staged, the rescue of this young woman would have been used as positive spin at a time when there was a growing amount of negativity about the war...

I think it is very easy to believe that this was a staged event because it

Frowning Budah · 05-24-2003, 03:24 PM

Like most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I do find it amusing every time I hear that she was captured in an "ambush". Yea like the Iraqs were lying in wait for a maintenance unit that didn't even know where in the hell they were.

reconmike · 05-26-2003, 05:09 PM

Hasty ambush, a very effective militay maneuver.
Done mostly at an instant.
Do you need a more in-depth definition?

XenuHubbard · 05-26-2003, 10:17 PM

Unless the military knew exactly what was going to happen, the cameras would never have been allowed close.

As for Lynch: She's a soldier. She volunteered. What's the big deal? Soldier's get targetted. Shit happens. Turning the piece into a human interest story is just cynical and further incentive for me not to watch any news from the US.

The USA is a super-power, and the only country in the world that can rival North Korea in terms of propaganda. The news are only a small part of this.

Vogad · 08-04-2003, 05:49 AM

Good PR for "W". Now that she's been given (notice I didn't say earned) the "Bronze Star" he ("W") can count on a whole bunch of female votes in the future.....
I am real curious as how the CITATION reads. As a twenty year (VietNam-Desert Storm) veteran of the Storm Troops (aka MARINES) I find it very suspicious. Did the other soldiers in her unit also get the "BS"??? Or were they not pretty enough???Please E-mail me of any source availible.
But then again, don't we (society) expect trophys for our children's soccor team that finished the season 1 and 10 (thats 10 losses...) ??? So why not give the "Bronze Star" to everyone that fired (or should I say attempted) their M-16, and "Silver Star"s to those that actually hit an enemy soldier !!!

j8ear · 08-05-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reconmike
Hasty ambush, a very effective militay maneuver.
Done mostly at an instant.
Do you need a more in-depth definition?

A hasty ambush never includes a photographer or PAO....EVER. In fact, I can think of no spec ops mission that does?

-b-

reconmike · 08-05-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by j8ear
A hasty ambush never includes a photographer or PAO....EVER. In fact, I can think of no spec ops mission that does?

-b-

My reply was to frowning budah's comment that he found it amusing that the Iraqis just happened to be waiting in ambush for a maint. truck

it was not directed towards the lynch mission

j8ear · 08-05-2003, 01:31 PM

Understood.

Although I must back pedal, since this IHR...obviously did include a camera man. A shame really.

Things have changed in the ten years I've not been wearing green.

m0ntyblack · 08-06-2003, 03:51 PM

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I thought the whole Lynch thing extremely fishy from day 1. Too perfect. I mean, really really too perfect.

And then casting doubt on her own account with questions of her mental health?? Come on...

also

Quote:

two Iraqi doctors to make themselves seem innocent and friendly

So, am I to assume these doctors weren't innocent and friendly to begin with just because they are Iraqis? Did they even support Sadaam? In my personal experience, doctors usually care for human life, and that's why they chose the profession.

MB

Zeld2.0 · 08-06-2003, 07:56 PM

My Dad (who served in Vietnam) said it was really too fishy from the start - and now these stories come out and he just sorts of laughs at the fact people really believed in it. He always said it was too fishy and packaged too neat - and I guess I can see where it comes from.

He remembers it too well - before he went to Vietnam he told me how the government made it sound all good they were winning only to have the Tet offensive come by and basically kick everything the gov't said in the ass. He always said - "they learned and how will only feed the good shit while 90% of the other 'bad' shit is hidden."

Honestly it doesn't surprise me - and I can see how a lot of soldiers who fought in other wars who never got awarded for heroism could be pissed off a bit seeing as to how someone was given a friggin' bronze star for being captured and rescued.

So uh I think i know quite a few soldiers out there who deserve it far more for their heroism under much more extreme cases.

pangavan · 08-06-2003, 08:25 PM

this may be alittle late in the disscusion but special ops soldiers dont even use blank ammunition in training....I dont want to be the one too hand them blanks in a combat zone

hobo · 08-06-2003, 09:18 PM

She was not shot, or stabbed. She was injured in the vehicle collision and might have fallen after getting out of it. I am pretty sure that that is the most widely accepted truth now. She says she doesn't remember what happened. It is probably because it didn't go the way it was said to have gone and she is covering someone's ass but trying not to get tied up with fake stories and being caught in a lie. She was probably not in any real danger because she didn't end up with the other POWs but was in a hospital having her wounds attended to.

Ever notice how POWs get hailed as heros and get big parades but nobody does anything big for the soldiers that seem to die every day?

Phaenx · 08-06-2003, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hobo

Ever notice how POWs get hailed as heros and get big parades but nobody does anything big for the soldiers that seem to die every day?

Ever been to DC?

Zeld2.0 · 08-08-2003, 03:24 PM

Even going to DC doesn't mean much sir. Sure its amazing and heartwrenching just to simply look at the Vietnam Memorial - especially those who acutally were there.

But the thing is, as time goes by, these names just become stasticis and are less personal.

The real heroes are still always those who die - the ones who sadly also become the first to be forgotten (by those not personally attached in anyway.)

05-15-2003, 07:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
andyc Upright Location: Nottingham, England	Saving Private Lynch story - true ? lies ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/3028585.stm Just wondering what people think of this story

05-15-2003, 08:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I think it is one story out of many. I doubt seriiously we will ever know what actually happened that day. This is the first I have heard of an automotive accident. This is a really good spin on the story from an Iraqi point of view - they had loaded her into an ambulance and were taking her back to the US when they were attacked by US troops and turned back - How would one then account for those who were buried outside of this hospital and if it were true, why were those who had been taken prisoner and were uninjured not taken back and released. One might ask why had these prisoners been separated? Wjy were they in dirrerent locations? Why was Lynch's ID found in an office in Baghdad? There are way too many whys to give a lot of credence to this report when it is as far off as it appears from all other accounts of this incident. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

05-15-2003, 09:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	IF they did do this, then I don't think its that bad. They were simpling showing the news in a good light, not straight out lieing. But IF true then it doesn;t do much service to the special operations units who do this sort of work. They are supposed to be elite soldiers, working behind the scenes. Using them as movie actors and firing blanks, IF true, completely demeans them and their good work. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

05-15-2003, 09:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	The only thing I find suspect in the whole story is the blanks thing, remember it was still a combat zone, and I find it hard to believe that the powers that be would send any troops into a combat zone with blanks. Will we ever know if she was shot? Maybe if she does a playboy spread. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

05-15-2003, 11:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	I'm with Liquor Dealer on this one. I also doubt that we will ever know for certain what <b>really</b>happened out there. I do question the amount of publicity that Jessica Lynch has gotten. By that I mean, would she have gotten the attention that she has were she not a nineteen year old little cutie? Now, before I get stomped like a wine grape here, I'm not detracting from anything that she or any of her rescuers have done. All I'm saying is that I feel that she is being singled out, by being the "all American girl-next-door" for PR purposes. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

05-15-2003, 12:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	it is from bbc and i do trust them quite a bit. i think i'd believe a version that's a compromise between the 2. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-16-2003, 06:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	I would tend not to believe this due to lack of corroboration, but I certainly wouldn't put it past us to do it. The war was made media consumable from day one. __________________ it's quiet in here

05-16-2003, 06:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	This has already been posted once. http://tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?threadid=6892 __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

05-16-2003, 06:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	It's possible that this happened. The stories seem plausible, apart from some details: the ambulance being shot, or the blanks, for example. If the American government needs a nice story to go along with Lynch's rescue, so be it. She was rescued, and is now safe and sound, back in the US. The guys that rescued her are still great soldiers in their own right; after all, if the story is true, they did risk their lives for some good publicity...

05-16-2003, 09:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	By the way, there was an interesting comment on the BBC website about this story... This whole article seems to be based on the testimonies of two Iraqi doctors. Why didn't the BBC check with the US doctors about the alleged bullet wounds of Lynch? Why didn't the BBC check with any other source at all, in fact? One might take a look at this story and dismiss it as a feeble attempt by two Iraqi doctors to make themselves seem innocent and friendly. Perhaps they're hiding something, maybe some not-so-friendly things they did to some of the POWs... This explanation is as logical and persuasive as the other option, that the US administration made the whole incident up, and lied about it to get free publicity. The great thing about this story is that nobody will change their opinion after reading it. One believer asked, if this story was false, why did the US government not say that? I, a sceptic, might retort: why would they say anything at all if the story is (obviously) false? Anti-US people will accept this as the real story behind the Lynch affair, and will dismiss as propaganda any US insistence that the story is made up - after all, Bush & co would say that, wouldn't they??? Pro-US people will see this story as obviously fake, and will think up some reasonable arguments why these Iraqi guys would lie. After all, of course these Saddam-supporters would lie, wouldn't they???

05-16-2003, 02:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
crumbbum Crazy Location: CT,NYC,NJ(have been all over)	It seems pretty ridiculous to believe the claims of 2 Iraqi doctors over all of our own and all the other sources of information we have. Obviously this has become a big PR event, but that's a good thing- it makes soldiers braver if they know they won't be abandoned if captured. I don't doubt that they did beat on the girl, or worse. We don't know the whole story. But the idea of special forces pulling a hollywood stunt with blanks and whatnot sounds pretty ridiculous, especially in a warzone, as was mentioned before. It's hard to take this very seriously. __________________ Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.

05-16-2003, 11:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	sounds about right, its not like they have any reason to lie (the docters) oh well smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

05-17-2003, 02:03 AM	#15 (permalink)
KillerYoda The Original Emo Gangsta Location: Sixth Floor, Texas School Book Depository	It's just another one of those stories that people come up with to make things more interesting, like the old "she never denied her faith" story from the Columbine incident. __________________ "So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

05-17-2003, 06:06 AM	#16 (permalink)
crewsor Women want me. Men fear me. Location: Maryland,USA	I don't believe for a second they had tried to turn her over to us. Why only her? What about the rest of the POWS? Do you really think the US Army would be in a war zone firing blanks? Suppose they did think it was safe, do you think they would take the risk of entering hostile territory with blanks. I don't buy it. It may not have been as high risk as portrayed, but I don't think this report is exactly accurate either. __________________ We all have wings, some of us just don't know why.

05-20-2003, 05:13 PM	#18 (permalink)
darkmagex Loser Location: Rochester, NY	Just the title of this thread shows how stupidly PR this whole damn thing became very very quickly.

05-21-2003, 12:27 AM	#20 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I would say with just the two Iraqi doctors testimony this story is hardly damning. Wasn't she shipped to Germany? If you were going to write this story, I'd think you'd get some confirmation from outside sources other than 'Iraqi doctor #1' and 'Iraqi doctor #2.' Of course....who am I kidding....confirmation....from a newstory.... cough Jayson cough cough Blair __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

05-21-2003, 07:17 AM	#21 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	From the first day they found her, my wife was ADAMANT that the whole thing was fishy. She was convinced through some female magic sensation that Lynch's story was mostly fictional. You can't begin to imagine the smug look on her face these days. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

05-21-2003, 09:10 PM	#23 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Thanks for the articles, Mac. A couple of my instructors were in the military, one in special forces, and they didn't understand why the military wouldn't release the uncut, uneditied film. They also smelled something fishy when this story first came out; One of them told me "everything was packaged just a little too neat..." take that for what it's worth. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

05-22-2003, 04:21 AM	#24 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	yeah, the amenisa thing just really made me skeptical. this is just too much of a co-incidence. maybe i'm too skeptical __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-23-2003, 12:50 AM	#26 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I don't know....I'll be sure and direct your scathing questions to him when I return this semester. Maybe he's full of shit and likes to brag to impress the kids. To be honest, I've no friggen' clue, but thanks for your positive reply on topic.... As for special operations training and tactics....I learn quite a bit from the Discovery family of channels, but then again, I'm not in the military and couldn't possibly understand...right? __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

05-23-2003, 05:19 AM	#27 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Regardless of whether the event was "real" or staged, the rescue of this young woman would have been used as positive spin at a time when there was a growing amount of negativity about the war... I think it is very easy to believe that this was a staged event because it __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-24-2003, 03:24 PM	#28 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	Like most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I do find it amusing every time I hear that she was captured in an "ambush". Yea like the Iraqs were lying in wait for a maintenance unit that didn't even know where in the hell they were.

05-26-2003, 05:09 PM	#29 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	Hasty ambush, a very effective militay maneuver. Done mostly at an instant. Do you need a more in-depth definition? __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

05-26-2003, 10:17 PM	#30 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	Unless the military knew exactly what was going to happen, the cameras would never have been allowed close. As for Lynch: She's a soldier. She volunteered. What's the big deal? Soldier's get targetted. Shit happens. Turning the piece into a human interest story is just cynical and further incentive for me not to watch any news from the US. The USA is a super-power, and the only country in the world that can rival North Korea in terms of propaganda. The news are only a small part of this. __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

08-04-2003, 05:49 AM	#31 (permalink)
Vogad Registered User Location: Sooner Nation	Good PR for "W". Now that she's been given (notice I didn't say earned) the "Bronze Star" he ("W") can count on a whole bunch of female votes in the future..... I am real curious as how the CITATION reads. As a twenty year (VietNam-Desert Storm) veteran of the Storm Troops (aka MARINES) I find it very suspicious. Did the other soldiers in her unit also get the "BS"??? Or were they not pretty enough???Please E-mail me of any source availible. But then again, don't we (society) expect trophys for our children's soccor team that finished the season 1 and 10 (thats 10 losses...) ??? So why not give the "Bronze Star" to everyone that fired (or should I say attempted) their M-16, and "Silver Star"s to those that actually hit an enemy soldier !!!

08-05-2003, 01:31 PM	#34 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	Understood. Although I must back pedal, since this IHR...obviously did include a camera man. A shame really. Things have changed in the ten years I've not been wearing green. __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission. Last edited by j8ear; 08-05-2003 at 01:33 PM..

08-06-2003, 07:56 PM	#36 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	My Dad (who served in Vietnam) said it was really too fishy from the start - and now these stories come out and he just sorts of laughs at the fact people really believed in it. He always said it was too fishy and packaged too neat - and I guess I can see where it comes from. He remembers it too well - before he went to Vietnam he told me how the government made it sound all good they were winning only to have the Tet offensive come by and basically kick everything the gov't said in the ass. He always said - "they learned and how will only feed the good shit while 90% of the other 'bad' shit is hidden." Honestly it doesn't surprise me - and I can see how a lot of soldiers who fought in other wars who never got awarded for heroism could be pissed off a bit seeing as to how someone was given a friggin' bronze star for being captured and rescued. So uh I think i know quite a few soldiers out there who deserve it far more for their heroism under much more extreme cases.

08-06-2003, 08:25 PM	#37 (permalink)
pangavan Insane Location: cleveland, OH	this may be alittle late in the disscusion but special ops soldiers dont even use blank ammunition in training....I dont want to be the one too hand them blanks in a combat zone __________________ He is, moreover, a frequent drunkard, a glutton, and a patron of ladies who are no better than they should be.

08-06-2003, 09:18 PM	#38 (permalink)
hobo Archangel of Change	She was not shot, or stabbed. She was injured in the vehicle collision and might have fallen after getting out of it. I am pretty sure that that is the most widely accepted truth now. She says she doesn't remember what happened. It is probably because it didn't go the way it was said to have gone and she is covering someone's ass but trying not to get tied up with fake stories and being caught in a lie. She was probably not in any real danger because she didn't end up with the other POWs but was in a hospital having her wounds attended to. Ever notice how POWs get hailed as heros and get big parades but nobody does anything big for the soldiers that seem to die every day?

08-08-2003, 03:24 PM	#40 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Even going to DC doesn't mean much sir. Sure its amazing and heartwrenching just to simply look at the Vietnam Memorial - especially those who acutally were there. But the thing is, as time goes by, these names just become stasticis and are less personal. The real heroes are still always those who die - the ones who sadly also become the first to be forgotten (by those not personally attached in anyway.)