Sign Related

"IN GOD WE TRUST" on the back of dollar bills of the U.S.'s. Why is it there to begin with? Who decided for that phrase to go on there? What was their reason behind it?

All of us in the U.S. dont trust in God. All of us in the U.S. dont trust in some made up God from some liars written material, you know? Therefore shouldn't "IN GOD WE TRUST" be removed from the paper money of the U.S. to be more correct?

Isn't "God" as church which should be seperate from state?

Journeyman

Info Linky
Anyway, in terms of seperation of church and state, it wouldn't bother me one bit if "In God We Trust" was removed in the next editions of American currency. On the other hand, who's got my back when I go gambling?

BigGov

Where did it come from? The Cold War. We had to do everything different from those godless commies.

I personally do not believe in God, and yet I'm not offended by this.

There's a war going on right now, our economy has gone to shit, the new election doesn't look like it will help much, and the NFL season has started.

Four little words on a piece of paper doesn't even make my list of concerns, and quite frankly, I don't understand why some people make it out to be such a huge problem in the world.

[EDIT]

Bah, Journey beat me to it. By the way Journey, don't you know what God says when you walk up to the poker/blackjack/whatever table?

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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

Journeyman

"10% of your winnings to the church?"

BigGov

Nope. "You're on your own."

Well, he says that now...I don't think I'll ever forget, "You have the nuts! Your full boat can't be beat! Ok, ONLY pocket 5's beat you, like this guy is gonna be holding pocket 5's."

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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

Seaver

You're thinking of "under God" from the Pledge.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fac...-we-trust.html

1864 is a little before the Civil War. You're correct though that "under god" was to bring out anti-Soviet feelings to aid us... considering they outlawed religion.

BigGov

Bah stupid me. Damn FFX, I'm working on 3 hours of sleep for the past 48 hours. Thanks for straightening me out.

[EDIT]

Wait, nevermind, I was right in the first place.

"A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency."

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fac...-we-trust.html

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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

ARTelevision

I don't think the phrase is necessary or appropriate.

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crewsor

I don't believe in God, but I have no problem with " In God we Trust" being on U.S. currency. I believe the majority of Americans would like to keep it there, so be it. Now if it said " Bow to Satan, you Demon Spawn", I may have an issue with that.

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Kadath

crewsor adressed the matter very accurately. We dont care enough to fix the contradiction. I believe in God and pray to him, but I don't think His name should be on our money. It cheapens Him to be associated with material goods.

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bytebeast

You must also take into consideration that this nation was founded by protestants. Even though this might not be who _you_ are, it is what our country was founded on and has structured our legal system around. It is not exactly a bad thing. The ethics and morality that christianity teaches are not bad so why are so many people hung up on "In God we Trust." Remember the phrase MAJORITY RULE?? 85% of all Americans believe in a god. So deal with it and find another thing to worry your pretty little heads.

Journeyman

I'd say our legal system is structured around the Consitution, which has this to say on the matter.
Now, considered that "In God We Trust" as a national motto was instituted by an act of congress, it would seem that this treads very closely to an unconstitutional situation. Majority rule doesn't apply in this instance, but since the amount of people who will change who they vote for based on whether or not four little words printed on money will get changed is such a tiny, tiny minority, it's going to end up sticking around.

Think about what Art says: It's not necessary - True. It's not appropriate - True. So there's simply no point in keeping it on there, and to claim that the religions of the founding fathers is reason to keep it on is to ignore what the founding fathers very intentions were.

OFKU0

There was a time in my life where this would have irritated me to no end and most probably all those around me. Now I don't give a fuck. My apathetic disgruntled nature has surpassed all my wildest expectations concerning everything about nothing.

It's good to care though. Someone has too.

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Stare At The Sun

I don't really mind seeing it on our money, however, i think it would be wise if it was removed. Though, i don't see that happening for some time.

Bill O'Rights

I am an atheist. I do not not believe in god. I believe, as ARTelevision, that it is not necessary, nor is it appropriate. ( one of the few things we agree on. ) However, when the time comes that I am concerned over it, then I will indeed count myself as fortunate. For it is then, and only then, that enough order has come into my world that I can afford to give it so much as a second thought.

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fuzyfuzer

i believe it used to be e plurbus unum which if my latin is still correct it has been a few years means out of many, one. i think this is something that looks and sounds better for our country. it would never happen though because majorty don't know what that means and don't care but under god is easy to understand

my .02

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matthew330

It should remain for no other reason than to not bow down to those who are so easily "offended." Once that train leaves the station, there's no stopping it.

it hasn't left yet has it?

Jazzbone

Would changing/removing the wording make it worth more or less?

CoachAlan

It's my estimation that this statement on the currency does violate the separation between church and state. Those who argue for it (at least on a Constitutional grounds) say that it's just a general theist statement, not an endorsement of a particular religion. That's how it gets past the prohibition of the First Amendment.

Considering that the vast majority of Americans are theists, including those on the Supreme Court, it's unlikely that this statement would be struck down as unconstitutional. In an ideal world, it might say something like "In the Constitution we trust," or "In law we trust."

But since it's not an ideal world, I'll go with the posters before me and say that I have bigger fish to fry.

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Superbelt

I think Kadath gave very good reasons why His name belongs nowhere on our currency. I believe He would take great offense to having us associate God so.

Protestants made up the majority of Americans, but the wording and structure of our early government was dominated by Deists. Which is pretty close to being Agnostic today. I have gone very thoroughly into the inspirations used for our government, Biblical law was only one of many including the text many other ancient societies.

Majority Rule is not correct. If you want that, go find a country that is a Democracy. We are a Republic.

rukkyg

Trusting our laws and constituion? Our constitution was made back when people with money had it because they abused the religious system. So they put in stuff to protect us from religion. Today, the rich don't even need religion to become or stay that way. We should have amendments protecting us from the rich, not the religious.... Although if we weren't protected from the religious, there'd be a lot more homeless babies and dead would-be-mothers out there.

MSD

So, If God's name is on our money, who are we supposed to give tribute to? If we are to give to God what is God's, and unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and our money has "In God We Trust" and "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" along with "Federal Reserve Bank" and "Secretary of the Treasury," that's a lot of tribute to be paying.

I'm sure glad I don't think the Bible is the absolute truth, otherwise I wouldn't have much money left over for me.

That's a lot of rambling over a single, archaic phrase, isn't it?

The Constitution, including the separation of church and state is there to protect the rights of anyone, no matter how small of a group, whether or not they have favorable public opinion. The founders of our country wanted to protect people from this kind of discrimination. If you think religious groups are the target of a lot of criticism and hate, put yourself in the shoes of an atheist, agnostic, deist, any group who is denounced as heretics and heathens by so many religious people. We're the target of criticism, mockery, and discrimination on a daily basis. Did you know that we're not technically allowed to hold public office in several states?* Going even farther, if you're anything other than a protestant in Vermont, you can't hold office.

If you want to keep the name of a supposedly supreme being whose existence is, at best, debatable, on our currency, ask your state senator to propose amending that part of the Bill of Rights. See how far that will get you.


*

ShaniFaye

just had to get clarification on this...Did you mean 1864 was before the COLD war?

I believe in God, but I'm of the opinion that it shouldnt be there. Everybody is always harping on the "seperation of church and state" but yet, its on our money and when testifying in court we swear on the Bible....I just dont get that.

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seretogis

Having "god" on our money is nowhere close to being forced into a state-sponsored religion. "In god we trust" is completely unnecessary, but so are thoughts that "in god we trust" should seriously offend anyone. There are many far more important things to worry about than the arrangement of letters on your currency.

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Mojo_PeiPei

Seperation of Church and State is not constitutional law, it's a concept being forced upon the country by left wing ACLU types who wish to further their own minority agenda.

Secondly, this does not make an establishment of religion, it makes no direct reference to any diety, only furthers the notion of Nature's God and the Masonic rite that heavily influenced the founding of our country (if you look at the great seal, about 1/2 inch to the left of IN GOD WE TRUST, you will see what I mean).

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Journeyman

Here's a small list of polytheistic categories.

So it's safe to say that there are two types of religion: Monotheistic, and polytheistic. To say "In God We Trust" is to assume that there is but one God, or at least one head honcho at the top of the deity food chain.

Even if you arbitrarily take away the notion of separation of church and state, you still have the first amendment declaring one thing and congress decreeing another.

I am confused on one point, though, if anyone can help me out. The first amendment says "Congress shall make no law," and the 1956 motto was enacted by an "act of Congress." Does the one cover the other or are laws and acts different?

jcookc6

You people should go to your nearest sporting goods store and buy a compass. Then make sure the arrow points to the North and follow it. Or if you don't want to do that, wait until until Nov. 3rd and voter for John Kerry. Because he will turn this country into another Canada. Then we will all be hosers. Might not be too bad, rather watch a Hockey game then a bunch of guys running around in thier underwear, banging thier chests.
The UN Flag will be beside the Stars and Stripes in front of the Post Office.
The Fact is a bunch of guys wearing wigs and short pants were the ones that put "In God We Trust" on our money. Back around 1776. They use to teach stuff like that in school in the old days. Maybe some of you history buffs could read up on it.

Kadath

I think I heard of those guys...weren't they the ones that said only men could vote and that black people were property?

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Journeyman

No, they said that only white men with property/land could vote, and that black's weren't people to begin with and thus could be property much as a work horse is property.

And "The Fact is" that "In God We Trust," as has been pointed out before, was not put on money untill 1864. Maybe you could read up on... this thread.

TheKak

So if 51% of the people voted to kill the other 49% would that be ok? We are a free country because the rights of the minority are protected, and we are free to believe and speak anything we want without worry of prosecution from the majority. This includes being protected from a state sponsored religion (as in The Church of England).

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mml

Ahhh Politcs and Religion! Few things can stir up a hornets nest more than this combination. In my ideal world, our currency would not make any reference to God, but just like many have said, I find it to be such a small matter compared to war, economy, environment... What irks me is that so many people belive that "In God we trust" and "under God" have been part of the American vernacular since the founding of our nation. The bulk of these phrases came into popular use during the 1950's as a stand against the "Godless Communists". I firmly believe that we only make our government weaker and dilute our religion when we mix the two - it's a lousy cocktail with a nasty hangover.

BigGov

I'll ignore the ignorant first half of your argument and just attack the dreadful argument in the second half.

I have no idea what school you went to, but the school I went to I learned that the United States didn't even print money until 1861. But don't take my word for it, take the word of our Government.

"The Government did not issue paper money as we know it today until 1861. In the interim years, however, the Government did issue "Treasury Notes" intermittently during periods of financial stress, such as the War of 1812, the Mexican War of 1846, and the Panic of 1857.

During this same period (1793 - 1861), approximately 1,600 private banks were permitted to print and circulate their own paper currency under State Charters. Eventually, 7,000 varieties of these "State Bank Notes" were put in circulation, each carrying a different design!

With the onset of the Civil War, the Government--desperate for money to finance the war--passed the Act of July 17, 1861, permitting the Treasury Department to print and circulate paper money. The first paper money issued by the Government were Demand Notes commonly referred to as "greenbacks." In 1862, Congress retired the Demand Notes and began issuing United States Notes, also called Legal Tender Notes."

http://www.secretservice.gov/money_history.shtml

And since you obviously didn't read the rest of the topic, I'm going to bring up two quotes made earlier in the topic.

"The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin."

"A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency."

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fac...-we-trust.html

The first was almost 100 years after 1776. The second almost 200 years.

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One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

CoachAlan

BAM! How about a big dose of facts courtesy of BigGov.

That was an excellent post, BigGov. Nothing brings internet arguments to a screeching halt like a big dose of referenced facts. That is, if the people arguing actually bother to read them.

I bothered, and I'd like to thank you for making me just a bit smarter than I was ten minutes ago. It's posts like yours that are the reason I almost never visit Tilted Boobies anymore.

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ironman

Ahhh... los gringos....

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