The.Lunatic

Now that list is quoted and I find it kind of funny. Now I'm a democrat, but I’m probably going to vote for Bush this election even though I think he's done a poor job. He's made very good decisions regarding keep this country safe, and despite the fact that I don't like his personal goals and choice the fact is he's better suited for the job than our buddies John John. Hopefully the democratic vote is high enough this year say.... 45% that Bush can't go on a rampage claiming that he's got the backing of the American people, but I also hope that he gets more vote than he did last time so that his position is affirmed by the American people.

BTW I got money says Bush produces O'sama bin Laden either before or shortly after the election. Not that I think he makes politically motivated decisions, but I think they're close and he wants to bring him in Alive.

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Proud memeber of the Insomniac Club.

filtherton

I think your list is an oversimplified and innaccurate portrayal of reality.

Who honestly thinks that saddam being in custody is bad?

Most of the other comparisons rely on half-truths or loaded wording. It would probably be really easy to produce an equally accurate list slanted against the right. What's your point?

Seaver

I think it was in reference to the means to his capture (IE war).

But yeah, list is very humorous.

filtherton

It's also an example of what passes for political thought in this country: simplicity and intellectual dishonesty. Niether side is immune.

I'm not a mod, but it seems like jokes belong in the humor section.

Kadath

Lunatic, you may claim to be a "democrate," but I'm glad you're not voting with me -- if you think Bush has made us safe and is more suited for the job of President you can get in the elephant line.

FYI:
William Jefferson Clinton is finished in politics. He will never hold political office again. He has done the best thing you can do as a US politician -- be a two-term President. Let it go.

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it's quiet in here

The.Lunatic

Half-Truths, Loaded Wording.... Oh my not in polotics!!! AHHH

I'm not making a point I didn't make the list. I was driving around and work today and heard Hanity or someone sputtering off this list and I had to laugh at its absurdity, but it does pose some good points. With Clintons new book still atop the best seller list, and movies like Fahrenheit 9/11 doing well in the box office one has to wonder what people can really believe at face worth.

And to your claim that you could come up with an equally accurate list slanted against the right. I'm not a betting man, but I would bet the bank that you could! But every point could be taken back again and again and analyzed and torn apart and twisted in unimaginable ways just because it is just that. Meaningless statistics.

My point is I wanted to share this list with all of you. Which is not necessarily my personal beliefs but It’s interesting to read and might make one inquire further into one subject. Such as people who are upset that Halliburton was awarded a no-bid contract in Iraq when in realty Halliburton is about the only company that could've undertaken such a project. The fact that Dick Cheney used to be chairman is inconsequence

I wasn’t aware that we were in spelling Nazi Camp here I’m and engineer not a liberal arts major, and I wrote that in the last 10 minutes of my lunch hour so I didn’t have a lot of time to spell check. You don’t see me pointing out the spelling errors of filtherton who I quoted.

Now to my point…

To be mean or to try and reason with one who doesn't want to be reasoned with...

Let me just put it this way.

Neither candidate is a Win Win for America.

Either way we can't have everything

So I’ve tallied the issues that are important for me, and assigned a value to how important each one is to me, and off that I’ve decided that with about 70% certainty I’m going to vote for Bush. You're not me, and you most likely don't feel the same way about each issue as I do, so you might find John John to be the team that embodies what you want done with America best. If that’s the case I’m happy to hear about democracy at its finest, and would implore you not to deviate from your decision. When November comes if real change has arisen which I doubt it will (although I’m sure democrats will flip flop every which way the wind blows to try and make up some of their deficiency in the polls) then you might want to re-evaluate.

But if you're jumping on the bash Bush bandwagon for all the stupid reasons that Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, and The New York Times say to then "I would say" that’s a misuse of the freedom you hold by being a registered voter, however a that right to vote frivolously is a right that I strongly support.

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Proud memeber of the Insomniac Club.

Bodhi

Clinton Placed Bin Laden on the number one wanted list and even sent missile into terrorist camps that they suspected Bin Laden of being in.

Journeyman

Johnny fires a gun at a masked assailant fumbling around his house in the middle of night - good...
Joey fires a gun at kids using his front lawn for a short cut at 3PM to get home from school - bad...

FUCK THE HIPOCRISY IS KILLING ME!

Yeah, you could say I oversimplified the way that the list is portraying things... but the list is what it is by virtue of oversimplifications.

pan6467

I just don't see the benefit of the "list" except to belittle the opposition and create hate.

It in no way shape or form talks about the issues.

It in no way shape or form helps UNITE the country it just spews hatred.

Again all I can say is this proves the GOP has no issues to run on. No game plan to show why to vote for them, just hate and finger pointing.

I could say under Clinton jobs were easier to get, people got far far better financial aid for college and under Bush we've lost 2 million jobs replaced with fast food joints being added to "manufacturing" on the job list so he can pad the job market and make it look as though we are manufacturing more good than we really are.

I could point to the fact that Clinton left the government with a surpluss (which means taxes did not have to be raised) and Bush is running the highest deficits in the history of the country, which means eventually the tax payers will have to pay higher taxes.

But it's all finger pointing and hate spewing BS. It doesn't build to a better future it does nothing but continue hatred and divisiveness so what's the point?

It does not surprise me where you got this crap.

Aw well, let the country fucking destroy itself from within by the hatred. Obviously noone truly wants to build to a better future, we're all too wrapped up in wanting what we want and being right.

When our children and their children live in poverty with no education, no healthcare and in a 2 class society we can say, "who cares we lived comfortably, it's your fault you were born into this." (Which we may not be saying in words but we are saying it in our actions.)

As for Bin Laden, I do believe that his capture or an attack from him will happen shortly before the election especially if close to give Bush the votes to win, but it could backfire (with people thinking Bush planned to do it to get the win and a loss of trust pushing votes to Kerry) and be a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

theusername

No one on here would say Clinton was a perfect president. I understand what your trying to say and I agree with the point that Serbia and Iraq are similar, but they do have very distinct differences. I fully support both wars and the eventual results/consequences of them.

However, the issue people have with Bush is that he "misled" the country, we went in for Weapons of Mass Destruction, we found none. We said they were an immediate threat to our security, we found out they were probably not our biggest threat.

Bill Clinton went into Kosovo (Serbia as you call it) because genocide was taking place, and genocide was taking place. And yes plenty of mass graves and evidence of them can be found in Kosovo.

My personal viewpoint is that I have no problems whatsoever insuring that totalitarian dictators dont rule nations and intentionally oppress their own people from their nation. Whether it be Saddam, Milosevic..etc.

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KMA-628

Try reading your post with this little tidbit of editing.

C'mon. We devoted an entire thread to the "Why vote Bush". Because you disagree with the reasons, doesn't mean there aren't any.

Thinking back, I don't remember any of the reasons to vote for Bush as, "Because he is not Kerry."

Would you like me to point out all of the times that people listed "Because he is not Bush" as a reason to vote for Kerry?

That doesn't mean that there aren't any legitimate reasons to vote for Kerry, I am sure there are (and I would disagree with them just as you disagree with our reasons to support Bush). But one of the top ten reasons, repeated over and over again, to vote for Kerry is because "I hate Bush" or because "Kerry is not Bush".

Show me one time where this is said from the conservative side and I will loudly and proudly stand corrected. (also, you make an awful lot of assertions without backing any of them up. Doesn't mean every statement must be verified, but one or two would be nice)

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Before you criticize someone, you need to walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry at you.......you're a mile away.......and they're barefoot.

Jean-Luc Godard

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...

I'd like to see you find anyone saying it was good to give Halliburton a no-bid contract in reconstructing Serbia, even though they had already won a bid to provide support during the operation and had standing infrastructure to help in the rebuilding process.

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
The war in Serbia cost NATO 4 billion, 2 of which came from the US. The war in Iraq has cost 191 billion so far with reconstruction far from over.

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...

NATO imposes a change in regime that was a direct threat to the stability of the Balkans and was in the process of invading an autonomous region.
US troops used - 18,500
US lives lost - 0
Bush forms a coalition for the express purpose of invading Iraq based on bad intel and with sketchy motives.
US troops used - 135,000
US lives lost - 889+

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian
terrorists - good...

NATO went to war on behalf of the ethnic Ablanians who were fleeing by the thousands into neighboring nations.

And you talk about genocide?-
Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq

--> Min 11252
--> Max 13213

--> "We don’t do body counts"
--> General Tommy Franks, US Central Command

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...

Whoever said this was good?

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...

Again, how is this good? Democrats were critical of his actions and most Americans feel he tarnished the prestige of the office.

Clinton says mass graves in Serbia - good.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/473017.stm

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...

Refer to above "The latest mass grave is one of more than 150 in Kosovo"


Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Recession under Bush - bad...

When Bush came to office in 2001, the 10-year budget balance was officially projected to be at a surplus of $5.6 trillion. Now, the deficit is expected to grow to $5-trillion over the next decade.

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...

Very bad, he made a call and when he wieghed the cost in US soldiers against a mission with a 45% chance of success he took the safer path.

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...

I for one don't remember Clinton saying Saddam had nukes.

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Big differance between calling for a dictator to step down and forcing him to at the cost of hundreds of American lives

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...

If I remember right, it was Bush I that supported the terrorist camps against the Soviets, not Clinton. He was the one that bombed them.

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam in custody - bad...

Most people are upset of the long trial of Milosevic - not good.
Most people are happy to see Saddam in custody, just don't approve of the way it was brought about.

pan6467

I admit it exists on both sides, but hate mongering is hate mongering and on either side it is wrong and divisive.

I was just talking about the list in this thread but overall, yes there is hate on both sides.

Noone says "anybody but Kerry" because Bush is the one in office. You get chants like that every election because every elected official discourages someone. That is a political fact. There were lot's of people who in '96 said "Impeach Clinton" and "vote the criminal out" noone said anything about Dole.

(Actually, '96 may have been a fluke because while there were those that were hounding Clinton, both Clinton and Dole were very civil towards each other and tried to stick to issues. And I remember Limbaugh slamming Dole as being too easy and nice and focusing too much on tyhe issues.)

We have to ask why is there so much hatred and distrust on both sides because it truly is divisive and will destroy us.

There are a lot of people out there in the spotlight getting rich preaching hate politics. They make fortunes by keeping hatred, pessimism and divisiveness alive. They wouldn't get paid to be optimistic and talk about how TOGETHER we can make the country great again.


You say I make a lot of assertions and need to verify what I say. I just gave my opinion. But if I listed something I can back it up just ask.

Personally, I am voting for issues such as healthcare, education, getting jobs back in the US. The man closest to my views and issues is Kerry.

Also, I wouldn't label myself, because in '96 I liked Buchanan's message and would have voted for him. On the other hand according to Limbaugh and Moore if you say you are a moderate and in the middle it is because you are a pussy/wimp and don't want to take a stand. So again it points to both sides trying to bully people into their corner without any issues being pointed at.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"