Had to laugh at this.

[pan6467]

Listening to Glenn Beck and he's yada yadaing about Kerry and Edwards, when all of a sudden he rants about how the Chinese funded MM's F-9/11 and how it is being shown all over China, like China is again a BIG enemy wanting to destroy us.

To me the punchline was, Bush can let companies send jobs over there but Heaven forbid we send a movie over there. And why are we giving them our jobs, if they want to destroy us so badly?

I know, I know I'm in trouble for posting this but I just loved the hypocrisy.

[apeman]

please explain - we don't have Glen Beck in the UK (mercifully?) ... is he a talk radio DJ of the fascist persuasion? (aren't they all?)

i've only listened to talk radio a few times but i'm not suprised if you heard a load of crap... that was very much my experience

[pan6467]

Glenn Beck is a former FM DJ. He's a definate Clear Channel talking head that tows the company (pro-Bush - do all you can to trash the Dems.) line well. He's growing and becoming a fast up and comer. Think Limbaugh, only instead of actually having some true sense of humor (Limbaugh does have that) Beck when it comes to politics is just callously evil and will say anything regardless of whether it is true or not. (Some say that about Limbaugh, but Limbaugh at least can be self effacing and admits, albeit very rarely, to a Dem good idea. Plus, Limbaugh does his thing for love and passion. Beck denies anything Dem and does nothing but bashes, and is about as genuine as a $3 bill, Beck is all about making money and when the political tide shifts he will too..)

His claims to fame are "Rallies for the Troops" where he goes to cities that carry him and promoted the war, as Clear Channel would HEAVILY support him with ads and using their stations to be there and broadcast all day from the rally. (He's very big in the Cleveland area.)

[apeman]

man he sounds like a dick... I'm afraid I can't find anything more constructive to say so I'd better stop now

[analog]

Curious where the discussion is in all of this...

[apeman]

we're working up to it dude - look on the bright side, at least it hasn't turned into a MM thread yet

[cthulu23]

Does anyone else remember the angry Republican rhetoric when Clinton renewed China's most-favored-nation status? Strange, but I can't remember hearing any of that for, say, the last four years.

[apeman]

ok after 20 minutes of exhaustive research, i can't find anything on the net... maybe the guy's imagining it

questions:
1) why would someone that rich need the People's Republic to fund them?
2) is the only reason that it's being shown all over China because they're so damn good at pirating?
3) wtf?

sorry analog, is the best i can do please beat me with your modstick

[pan6467]

Analog, I must apologize. I admit there is not much to discuss, I just found the hypocrisy of "we'll give you our jobs and we'll deal with you BUT you are still evil and cannot fund our watch our movies" stupifying.

It showed me Beck believes his listeners to be so stupid as to think that because China (if they even did) funded and are watching F-9/11 are truly evil, and that Kerry cannot be elected because of this. That is what he was saying.

It was sad the way he ranted about it, yet funny because of the hypocrisy of how he says,"we send jobs over there because by giving the people a taste of American life they become that much closer to freedom."

To me it said, "we'll give you a cupful of rice to do our work, because we want you to be free, but by watching a movie that makes our Pres. look bad, makes you evil and will destroy Kerry's presidential bid."

And as Beck usually will start these rumors, Limbaugh then nails them down and irons them out and makes them issues. So this maybe a foreshadow of a Limbaugh rant also. Hopefully not.

[Scipio]

I think it is kind of silly, when it comes to the MM deal, but I'm concerned that China has a strategic plan to become the next superpower (which is sorta obvious). The strength of their system is that they are much better able to plan long term than we are. My concern is that they're playing a geopolitical chess game, while we're stuck playing checkers. They may not be there tomorrow, but try them in 50-75 years.

[apeman]

yeah, i think that is where the smart money is scipio, now that they are embracing capitalism but without the democracy... good trick if you can do it eh?
i saw a report on BBC that was giving ~50 years at present growth rates before they catch up with the states.

[apeman]

Originally posted by apeman
ok after 20 minutes of exhaustive research, i can't find anything on the net... maybe the guy's imagining it

of couse i mean Glen Beck's hallucinating, not our phil

[pan6467]

Lol..... me hallucinate? Never. well there was that one time....

I wouldn't put it past Beck he tends to say things that have no facts behind them whatsoever, but hell there are plenty of people that do that. I have been accused of it even.

I did go to his website and didn't see anything there either. It would be nice if I could find transcripts from yesterday's show and post what he said in his own words.

BTW named Apeman and from the UK.... wouldn't be a KINKS fan would ya? You know the greatest rock band ever, not some sex term.

As for China, becoming the next Superpower, I believe they will. We are giving them our jobs, technology, letting them subsidize their steel and other industries so that ours can't compete (far superior product but the cost is too high.) and have a massive trade deficit with them.

All they have to do is start calling in the IOU's or raise their wages and cause prices to skyrocket faster than we can raise wages.

[apeman]

well, the reason that jobs go over to China is that they have lower wages ... it's not so much a matter of giving your jobs away as in not preventing them leaving and if you prevent the jobs going, that's called protectionism and it conflicts with the free market principle

since the US often comes across as the great free market democracy, some of us find it irritating when people then complain about the results of following these principles to a logical conclusion ... but hey, when did logic ever govern people?

---- on-topic ends ----
yeah, i like the Kinks... in fact i will put it on now i play apeman, lola, Victoria etc. on me guitar sometimes, at least when my hand isn't bandaged

[cthulu23]

Originally posted by apeman
since the US often comes across as the great free market democracy, some of us find it irritating when people then complain about the results of following these principles to a logical conclusion ... but hey, when did logic ever govern people?

What do you mean by this? It's worth mentioning that no market on this planet is truly a "free market," as trade is governed by complex webs of regulations, tariffs, trade agreements, price supports, etc.

[apeman]

exactly ... the EU presumably pays lips service to the "free market" too, and we all subsidize our farmers and have tariffs to protect our industries.

i'm not complaining about the US in particular, more about right-wing free market fanatics who start moaning as soon is it goes the other way

[cthulu23]

A completely "free market" of the type that doctrinaire liberatarians dream about is fantasy. No nation should willingly give up domestic food production just because less developed nations can raise their crops cheaper, and there must be some limits to business in the interest of the public good. Even Adam Smith wrote that unless some sort of limits are placed on the "invisible hand," power will consolidate into monopolies, causing competition, one of the cornerstones of capitalism, to whither and die.

[pan6467]

I just don't understand how Bush is letting China get away with so much (Clinton did also).

Their main military doctrine is to destroy us. They subsidize their steel industry so they sell steel dirt cheap and we can't compete (and the Japanese are having troubles competing). Neo-Con Capitalists believe that to be okay, yet when one becomes reliant on another country that country (the US) becomes more or less weaker and subject to the other's contol, politically and economically (since both have become very intertwined).

Again, yes China may offer lower wages but we are also giving up massive technology that they can use to hurt us militarily with.

The Chinese (as are Malayasians, Phillipines, and about every 3rd world country out there) are already proving they want to destroy us by subsidizing the steel, by not recognizing trademarks, patents and copyrights every other civilized nation recognizes.

Example: In Mansfield, Ohio there is a company called Gorman Rupp they make industrial pumps and have quite a few patents on their parts, Gorman Rupp has NEVER had 1 layoff, has never "downsized" or sold out to a bigger company and has always shown profits and growth (even in recessions). GR is a solid employer and a great business.

China, has taken ALL OF GR's patents and has started selling them for as much as 25% what cost is to GR.

The Chinese to show their apathy towards the US has taken GR brochures and photoshopped out GR and placed Chinese symbols (the brochures are identical other than that so it is obvious.)

So what is happening, companies, cities and so on deal with the Chinese company and buy GR PATENTED pumps and replacement parts.

GR is developing serious financial problems because of this and when they have gone to the government for help, other than OHIO Senator George Voinivich, NOT ONE PERSON IN WASHINGTON WILL DO A DAMNED THING.

This is just one company, there are similar stories elsewhere. I just don't understand how Bush and the neo-cons can do business like this with countries who want to destroy us (what China and these other "cheap labor countries" are doing is economic terrorism, yep, he's strong on terrorism).

YET, a talking head like Beck is more concerned that the Chinese are seeing F-9/11 and wants to portray China as evil, yet for business they are great allies? Limbaugh talks daily about how the Chinese hate us but in the next breath says it's ok to send jobs over to countries like this because they are cheaper labor sources.

Don't people see the irony and hypocrisy not only of Beck but Bush?

What will it take for usto see this, before we become severely economically damaged ?

[apeman]

i didn't know that part - having people rip off patents is bad - all the recent stories i've heard have been UK manufacturers moving their plants out to the far east

all i want is people to have consistent views - that's more important than whether i agree with em or not, because it shows they've at least thought about it... one of the things that's doing my head in with regard to politics currently is that i'd like to be behind one particular group, but then i get the feeling they're just disagreeing with the other group for the sake of it... sigh

obviously it's nice if everyone agrees with me too, but you can't have everything

[edwhit]

With all the accusations of Bush being a warmonger I'd think you guys would be glad he wants to be friends with China lol

I agree with you though. I feel we need to be doing a few less favors for China. We don't agree with their ideals and they have no political love for us (other than money-wise) and yet anyone in America can spend 60 secs and find 10 things made in China laying around close to them!

And just for the record. I don't agree with everything Rush or Glen Beck say, but I do find them entertaining as hell and they make some good points from a non extreme left perspective!

Rush tends to have a lot more facts to back up his opinions I would have to agree. I will say again, I do not agree with all he says and yes he has lots of faults (kinda like all humans, even on the left??) but he is popular by the right because of the fact that he uses logic and facts to find fault in what he believes to be false.

I have heard him bash bush on several occasions btw. He calls it like he sees it. Does he favor the right over the left? Hell yes! There is no doubt and he has an agenda same as the media on the left. But it's funny how the left gets abc, nbc, cbs, cnn etc to push their agendas but there is so much uproar over Rush lol.

[oktjabr]

I wonder if there is a cultural study about this seemingly very american talk show phenomenon.

[pan6467]

Originally posted by edwhit
With all the accusations of Bush being a warmonger I'd think you guys would be glad he wants to be friends with China lol

I agree with you though. I feel we need to be doing a few less favors for China. We don't agree with their ideals and they have no political love for us (other than money-wise) and yet anyone in America can spend 60 secs and find 10 things made in China laying around close to them!

And just for the record. I don't agree with everything Rush or Glen Beck say, but I do find them entertaining as hell and they make some good points from a non extreme left perspective!

Rush tends to have a lot more facts to back up his opinions I would have to agree. I will say again, I do not agree with all he says and yes he has lots of faults (kinda like all humans, even on the left??) but he is popular by the right because of the fact that he uses logic and facts to find fault in what he believes to be false.

I have heard him bash bush on several occasions btw. He calls it like he sees it. Does he favor the right over the left? Hell yes! There is no doubt and he has an agenda same as the media on the left. But it's funny how the left gets abc, nbc, cbs, cnn etc to push their agendas but there is so much uproar over Rush lol.

I do like Limbaugh, he's honest and while I don't agree with him on most issues, he seems to have a passion beyond money for what he does and I admire that.

Beck, it's all about money, I truly don't get a sense he has passion for what he says he believes, I maybe wrong. If liberal radio talk shows were the thing he'd be first in line with a show. No doubt in my mind.