Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-09-2004, 06:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
Fear the bunny
 
Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing
Giuliani to replace Cheney on ticket?

<hr>
Giuliani to replace Cheney on ticket?
Bush camp considers switch leading to NYC convention

Posted: June 9, 2004 1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Joseph Farah
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com



Rudy Giuliani

WASHINGTON – There are whispers among high-level political advisers to President Bush suggesting the possibility of replacing Dick Cheney with former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani as the vice presidential running mate prior to the Republican National Convention in New York beginning Aug. 30.

Cheney, who has no aspirations to run for president in 2008 and has had well-publicized heart problems, has been involved in the discussions and is open to the idea if it strengthens the ticket and helps position a viable Republican candidate to succeed Bush, sources tell WND.

Originally, Cheney was asked by Bush to lead the effort to find the best running mate in 2000. After months of interviews and offering advice, Bush surprised many by picking Cheney.

Giuliani, as well as New York Gov. George Pataki, has been expected to play a starring role at the convention. Both are also considered possible presidential candidates in 2008. Securing the vice presidential nomination, however, would instantly make Giuliani the front-runner among all potential Republican candidates.

"There is some thinking at the very highest political levels that this move could add some late sizzle to the campaign, steal any thunder generated by the Democrats in Boston and even potentially put the state of New York in play for the president," said one source close to both Giuliani and the White House.

No one is talking on the record, and the plan is not yet set in stone.

So far, the only people who have speculated publicly about such a move are Democrats.

"They'll probably play Rudy heavier than any other part of the convention," former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo told the Associated Press last week. "So Rudy will go up and people will start talking about him replacing Cheney or him running for president. It'll be very, very good for Rudy."

Giuliani became a national star in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks that brought down the World Trade Center towers, killing almost 3,000 people. He became known as "America's mayor."

"They'll make the most of 9-11, the most of Rudy," Cuomo said. "He is now still iconic, you saw that in 9-11 and that's it," the Democrat added. "He's received a stature which is, for the time being, absolutely unshakable."

Giuliani has said he may return to elective politics as early as 2006 by running either for governor, should Pataki call it quits after three terms, or for U.S. Senate against Democratic incumbent Hillary Rodham Clinton. In the face of prostate cancer, Giuliani withdrew from the 2000 Senate race won by Clinton.

By beating Clinton in 2006, Giuliani would not only position himself as a leading candidate for president in 2008, he would have eliminated the Democrats’ No. 1 contender. But it's a risky proposition for Giuliani. If he can't topple the popular Democratic incumbent, his chances of becoming president, or even winning the nomination in 2008, would be slim indeed.

There is little love lost between Pataki and Giuliani. Giuliani angered many Republicans in 1994 when he crossed party lines to endorse Cuomo's bid for a fourth term. Pataki beat Cuomo in that election.

The only potential political danger in replacing Cheney with Giuliani, said a source close to Bush, is that it would create problems with the president's right flank. Giuliani is widely perceived as less conservative than Cheney, and by elevating him to front-runner in 2008, Bush could anger many conservatives.

Giuliani is also being considered as a replacement for George Tenet as director of the Central Intelligence Agency. However, Bush appears to be in no rush to fill that slot. It's possible, one source said, it could be held open for Cheney.
<hr>
LINK
__________________
Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

Last edited by BoCo; 06-10-2004 at 05:19 AM..
BoCo is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 06:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Regardless of the respect I hold for Rudy.....Even he cannot make Bush look good.
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 06:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
Is In Love
 
Averett's Avatar
 
Location: I'm workin' on it
Oh my GOD I am so SICK of Giuliani. He'll be riding 9/11 until he dies. Yes it was a horrible thing, yes he did a great time as Mayor during it. But Jesus, get over it, and get over yourself while you're at it.

Not that I was considering voting for Bush anyway, but as Giuliani as his running mate, I sure as hell wouldn't.
__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
Averett is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 06:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
 
Bill O'Rights's Avatar
 
Location: In the dust of the archives
^^^^*snicker* She's from New York, y'know.

And, yeah...not even Giuliani is going to sweeten the Bush ticket. But, then again, I'm in Nebraska. Nebraska always goes Republican, so Bush already has this state locked. It's not even a question.
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 06-09-2004 at 06:46 AM..
Bill O'Rights is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 06:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
Is In Love
 
Averett's Avatar
 
Location: I'm workin' on it
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill O'Rights
^^^^*snicker* She's from New York, y'know.
Yup Not NYC granted, but still, up in here in Albany I'm sick of him.

And Pataki is an asshat as well.
__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
Averett is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 06:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: NJ
I think it's an interesting scenario looking out to the 2008 election. Should Giuliani join this year's Presidential ticket and get elected, if Hillary goes for the Presidency in 2008 that would make for one hell of a race. If anyone thinks this year's election has negative ads that one would probably be exponentially worse.
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.
onetime2 is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 07:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
Thats MR. Muffin Face now
 
losthellhound's Avatar
 
Location: Everywhere work sends me
oh my.. thats alot of ego on one ticket
__________________
"Life is possible only with illusions. And so, the question for the science of mental health must become an absolutely new and revolutionary one, yet one that reflects the essence of the human condition: On what level of illusion does one live?"
-- Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death
losthellhound is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 07:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
Boy am I horny today
 
absorbentishe's Avatar
 
Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!
My friends and I have been talking about this. The only way it will happen is if Cheney steps down due to health issues. If he does that, then the door is open.
absorbentishe is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 07:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
No Avatar, No Sig.
 
What about the scandle with his wife and the mistress living in the governers mansion before the divorce was final and so on. Doesn't that make him lacking the moral fiber needed to be attractive to true hard core conservatives?
Wax_off is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 07:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
cookie
 
dy156's Avatar
 
Location: in the backwoods
There's been talk of this for a long time. I think it might be good for Bush, but doubt it will happen. Bush has the same quality as James Carville of being almost too loyal. Cheney should not have been allowed to be V.P. anyway, since the Constitution forbids both P. and V.P. from the same state, and even if Cheney claims he's from Wyoming, that wasn't where he was at the time. But no one really cared. Plus, Poppa Bush stuck with Quayle, who was even more of a liability than Cheney. We'll see.
dy156 is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 09:21 AM   #11 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally posted by Wax_off
What about the scandle with his wife and the mistress living in the governers mansion before the divorce was final and so on. Doesn't that make him lacking the moral fiber needed to be attractive to true hard core conservatives?
Shhh .... maybe they won't figure it out.

This doesn't change my vote in any way. The entire Bush adminstration has done far too much that goes against what I believe in, and against federal and interantional law, for me to consider flipping their switch in the voting machine.
MSD is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 01:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Daval's Avatar
 
Location: The True North Strong and Free!
First. I don't support GWB or Dick Cheney. I would vote Democrat if I was an American.


But. This would in my opinion be an absolutely brilliant move by the Republicans to choose such a hugely star candidate. This man is revered throughout the US and would push a lot of the swing votes to GWB.
__________________
"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
Winston Churchill
Daval is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 01:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
whoopity doo
 
Bobaphat's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Quote:
Originally posted by dy156
There's been talk of this for a long time. I think it might be good for Bush, but doubt it will happen. Bush has the same quality as James Carville of being almost too loyal. Cheney should not have been allowed to be V.P. anyway, since the Constitution forbids both P. and V.P. from the same state, and even if Cheney claims he's from Wyoming, that wasn't where he was at the time. But no one really cared. Plus, Poppa Bush stuck with Quayle, who was even more of a liability than Cheney. We'll see.

Quayle was assasination insurance. Who would knock off George Sr. if they knew Quayle was next in line?
__________________
--size matters not-- yoda
Bobaphat is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 01:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
BFG Builder
 
Location: University of Maryland
Where does the Constitution forbid the President and VP from being from the same state?

Still wouldn't change my vote.
__________________
If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.
DelayedReaction is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 05:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
Paq
Junkie
 
Paq's Avatar
 
Location: South Carolina
I'd hate to see guiliani's name/rep dragged down by Bush antics..

sorry, just not goin for it..
__________________
Live.

Chris
Paq is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 09:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
Mencken
 
Scipio's Avatar
 
Location: College
The interesting point to me is that a change of running mate would constitute a concession of weakness or potential for loss on the Bush side. They might just stick it out with Cheney for that reason. It plays into a strategy that Karl Rove used of "looking like the winner."

Someone above noted that Cheney would leave for health reasons only. I think he would, but he would also leave the ticket if it were necessary to ensure victory.
__________________
"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."
Scipio is offline  
Old 06-09-2004, 10:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
Junkie
 
G5_Todd's Avatar
 
Location: Reichstag
w00t rudy!
__________________
"....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy."

-General Franks
G5_Todd is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 05:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
Fear the bunny
 
Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing
A Bush-Giuliani ticket absolutely has my vote.

__________________
Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.
BoCo is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 05:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
Is In Love
 
Averett's Avatar
 
Location: I'm workin' on it
Quote:
Originally posted by BoCo
A Bush-Giuliani ticket absolutely has my vote.

Why? Did Bush have your vote in the first place? Would you vote for the Bush-and a Bush (i'm clever ) ticket?

Or would having Giuliani has Bush's running mate sway your vote?

I'm just curious to see what effect Giuliani could have on people who are on the fence.
__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
Averett is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 08:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
Paq
Junkie
 
Paq's Avatar
 
Location: South Carolina
I don't normally speak for people, but Boco wasnt' exactly on the fence. at least, not from the impression i get...


Heck, Bush/Satan would probably still have Boco's vote...


__________________
Live.

Chris
Paq is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 09:04 AM   #21 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
"President Guilliani" has a nice ring to it.

I could see Cheney stepping down for "health reasons" and Bush picking someone else.

Guilliani definitely has the star cache.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 10:13 AM   #22 (permalink)
Upright
 
Don't think it will help. Which is a good thing.
__________________
Stop Bush Now!
answerC is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 10:37 AM   #23 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: st. louis
i want a bush-powel ticket

yay who's with me
__________________
"The difference between commiment and involvment is like a ham and egg breakfast the chicken was involved but the pig was commited"

"Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt
fuzyfuzer is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 11:04 AM   #24 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by fuzyfuzer
i want a bush-powel ticket

yay who's with me
I guess I can't say I am because I would be voting for Bush anyway. Apparently that's a deal breaker for having an opinion.
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.
onetime2 is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 12:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
Paq
Junkie
 
Paq's Avatar
 
Location: South Carolina
umm..powell is on the outs with bush right now, i don't see them as patching things up enough to run together..
__________________
Live.

Chris
Paq is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 12:38 PM   #26 (permalink)
Psycho
 
jcookc6's Avatar
 
Location: Venice, Florida
I think it would be a good move for Cheney to get off the ticket. But I don't think Rudy would be a good choice. He has too much baggage. Someone from the Midwest would be a better choice.
I would wait until Kerry announces who his choice is.
jcookc6 is offline  
Old 06-10-2004, 09:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
Fear the bunny
 
Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing
Quote:
Originally posted by Averett
Why? Did Bush have your vote in the first place? Or would having Giuliani has Bush's running mate sway your vote?
I was never on the fence--Bush already had my vote. But I would take Giuliani over Cheney in a heartbeat if I had the choice.
__________________
Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.
BoCo is offline  
Old 06-11-2004, 08:56 AM   #28 (permalink)
cookie
 
dy156's Avatar
 
Location: in the backwoods
Quote:
Originally posted by DelayedReaction
Where does the Constitution forbid the President and VP from being from the same state?
It doesn't exactly forbid them from being from the same state, but if they are their home state's electors can't vote for them both.

Quote:
AMENDMENT XII
Passed by Congress December 9, 1803. Ratified June 15, 1804.

Note: A portion of Article II, section 1 of the Constitution was superseded by the 12th amendment.

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; -- the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; -- The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. [And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. --]* The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

*Superseded by section 3 of the 20th amendment.
Can be found here, among other places.

http://www.archives.gov/national_arc...nts_11-27.html

It's in the first couple of lines. The electors aren't supposed to vote for two people from their state. So, if Cheney was from Texas, Texas electors' votes technically should not have counted. There was a lawsuit, but it was thrown out pretty much because, well, who gives a shit about where he's from, and people were far more worried about Florida.
dy156 is offline  
Old 06-11-2004, 01:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
mml
Adrift
 
Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life
This is an interesting proposition, we discussed it a few months back and most people felt there was no way this was going to happen. I still think it is a long shot. My cousin worked for the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2000, then for the RNC and now he is working in Iraq for Bremer and will be coming home soon to help with the 04 campaign. A few months ago he told me the rumor he was hearing from friends in the RNC is that if Cheney goes, and he would only go if he felt it would ensure a Bush victory, their first choice would be to put Tom Ridge in as V.P. and possibly put Guliani in at Homeland Security.

Who knows, but it is fun to speculate, and the right person could really give the ticket a lift.
__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams
mml is offline  
Old 06-11-2004, 02:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
WoW or Class...
 
BigGov's Avatar
 
Location: UWW
Hmm...If McCain is so intent on Bush being re-elected...Bush-McCain '04?

That would push me over the fence.
__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"
BigGov is offline  
Old 06-20-2004, 02:11 PM   #31 (permalink)
Upright
 
Rudy's centerist positions on the social issues hurt Bush with his base. If they stay home on election day, Bush is cooked.
felixn is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 03:00 AM   #32 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
I guess you can talk of Guliani being perceived as a mainstream "star" asset by some people; just as Powell used to be perceived.

On the the other hand, the movers and shakers within the administration - Cheney, Rumsfeld and, of course, Ashcroft - all have their own well known liabilities and controversies. If you say "Let's get rid of all these controversial figures and put together some kind of contrived centerist dream machine", then you're really taking the heart out of everything they've done the past four years, for better or worse.

I think Scipio makes a good point about "sticking with what they have" at the moment. That's their record, that's what they should run on.
Macheath is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 03:38 PM   #33 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Powell-Rice in 08 baby!

That said, I think Bush has done one thing extremely well, and that's stick to his guns. While Kerry has waffled and taken both sides of every issue, Bush has held firm and stayed with his vision 100%. I don't see him dumping his VP for a bump in the polls.

However, if Cheney quits for health reasons, I think Guiliani would be an acceptable alternative, and it positions him for the 08 battle of the century against the crazy woman who wants to triple our healthcare costs and stifle all future medical research and development.
Hwed is offline  
Old 06-21-2004, 05:03 PM   #34 (permalink)
comfortably numb...
 
uncle phil's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: upstate
and the poster's comment on the original link?
__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.
uncle phil is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 05:21 AM   #35 (permalink)
Banned from being Banned
 
Location: Donkey
What a nice illusion.

The Vice Pres. doesn't really do much of anything, so why would people care if Guiliani was in that position? It's still Bush calling the shots.

[edit]
Although.. I guess more people would rather have Guilani as president if Bush were to get assassinated? Hm.. that might not be a bad idea
__________________
I love lamp.
Stompy is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 08:05 AM   #36 (permalink)
Paq
Junkie
 
Paq's Avatar
 
Location: South Carolina
As they were saying last night when contemplating whom kerry is going to pick for a VP...your choice can't really help you, but it can hurt you quite a bit...
__________________
Live.

Chris
Paq is offline  
 

Tags
cheney, giuliani, replace, ticket

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:47 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360