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#1 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I still say owning a hunting rifle or shotgun or a handgun for protection is fine and should never be a problem. But there are no sane reasons whatsoever to own automatic or semi-automatic weapons. I'm sorry, a line does need to be drawn and while the NRA has some good points, they have also become too power hungry and blinded by that power to see what truly is good for the nation. How they can support anyone owning anything that is more powerful than the local police department has is ridiculous. There is no reason for anyone who is a law abiding citizen to own an assault or semi-automatic weapon of any sort (except maybe a 9mm or less handgun ). Watch the movie Tombstone, how the brothers Earp put out notice that guns in the city were outlawed. There was a huge outcry and that part of the movie was very factual.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by hrdwareguy; 05-27-2004 at 10:08 AM.. |
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#2 (permalink) |
Upright
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I don't buy the idea that the 2nd amendment is ambiguous. It is a 2 part sentence. Part one is the reason for the amendment. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state," <--- that's -why-. Part 2 says "The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." That's not ambiguous at all. It doesn't say the right of the militia or the right of the state, or the right of the managment of the local Dairy Queen, it says the right of the PEOPLE, as in We, the People. The populace, the average guy on the street.
The founders, being revolutionaries themselves, realized that a people could only be oppressed by their government if they did not have the means to defend themselves. These people led an armed revolt against English rule. They were determined that ultimate authority in the representative republic that they created should rest with the people, not government. The US Constitution, particularly in this instance the Bill of Rights, does not protect the rights of the government. It protects individual rights -against- government intrusion. The government does not have the right to free speech and press and practice of religion, you do. The government does not have the right to vote, you do. "The right of the PEOPLE to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated," (Am IV) does not apply to a government organized special group of people, it applies to all. Amendment V: "No PERSON shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any PERSON be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against HIMSELF, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall PRIVATE PROPERTY be taken for public use, without just compensation. IX: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the PEOPLE. and X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the PEOPLE. The Bill of Rights protects -individual- rights. When it says "The People", it -means- "The People". Websters, entry 5, the most applicable definition in my opinion: "The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the: “those who fear and distrust the PEOPLE, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes” (Thomas Jefferson)." Note the use of a quote of one of the founders as an example of the definition. The second amendment could not be more clear. The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The only argument is between those who believe in individual rights, and those who would see them subordinated to the whims of the Nanny State, who should care for us mindless peasants who obviously are not capable of thinking for ourselves, from cradle to grave. The kind of thinking that places a government in complete control of your security and well-being is an invitation to be enslaved. The founders meant us to take care of ourselves, and be wary of a government that would take care of us, for "our own good". The right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed. The abuse of that right (to commit robberies, assaults, and murders) should be met with swift, sure, and severe consequences. -That- would be the proper "gun control". A gun is a -tool-. The problem is the one wielding it. Prosecute and punish those who commit crimes using weapons, instead of persecuting law-abiding citizens who chose to excercise their rights under the Second Amendment. |
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#3 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Jose, CA
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The 2nd amendment works the same way. There are a ton of restrictions on weapon ownership that people accept. I doubt that anyone wants personal ownership of nuclear weapons, howitzers, RPG's, or fuel-air bombs to be unrestricted. Most people are for reasonable background checks. Many people are for reasonable rules on gun safety classes. Most people are for restriction on weapon purchases by convicted felons. So, I'm really not sure what point you are arguing, but you did do a good job of saying it passionately. |
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#4 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Allen, TX
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Mere stats don't answer the question of what gun policy leads to the safest society.
America has very liberal (as in open/lax) gun policies, yet we have obviously pretty heavy crime problems, not to mention a prison population off the scale. Britain has seen rising crime while toughening gun laws. Most of Europe has pretty good crime rates and pretty tight gun control. So which combination do we say represents the 'formula'?
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"Don't tell me we're so blind we cannot see that this is my land! I can't pretend that it's nothing to do with me. And this is your land, you can't close your eyes to this hypocracy. Yes this is my land, I won't pretend that it's nothing to do with me. 'Cause this is our land, we can't close our eyes to the things we don't wanna see." - DTH |
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#5 (permalink) |
wouldn't mind being a ninja.
Location: Maine, the Other White State.
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BlueMan:
I'm not sure how you took it, but I just want to go on the record as saying I personally believe the Second Amendment protects the right of the individual to own firearms... at least, it does today. However, I can *also* read that amendment as "A well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state, therefore the people may maintain one." I never said I thought the National Guard was a militia. In the sense that I *can* see the Amendment, a militia is a privately controlled, as in controlled by the "PEOPLE" you kept mentioning, entity. Also, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" is undefined. The "Founding Fathers," as we are so fond of calling them, never said "keep guns." They said "keep arms." If you take the Second Amendment as concrete, as you said you do, then technically, I'm allowed to have a nuclear warhead. I'm allowed to develop chemical and biological weapons. I'm allowed to "keep and bear" my hyrdogen bomb while I'm walking down the street, in front of your house. But obviously this is complete shit. If you agree that any limitations can be set on "arms" ownership, then you CANNOT assert that the Second Amendment is absolutely clear. The Constitution, and any subsequent amendments, were specifically written as NOT to be clear, so they can apply to situations in the future. If the Second Amendment had said "You can carry a muzzle loading rifle with you at any time," we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we? Instead, it is ambigous, so that we may. That is all. |
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#6 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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Sadly enough, there are too many people that don't.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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#7 (permalink) | |||
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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#8 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Good point, hopefully it did not affect what I was trying to say too much. I am not a big gun enthusiast. No pun intended. I can see maybe owning a .45 or a Glock 9MM but that's about it. I had a friend who had an arsenal and we went to a range in N.Mexico about 12 years ago. It was fun but, not me.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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#9 (permalink) |
Psycho
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Criminals are NEVER deterred by the prospect of their victims possibly being armed. All it does it encourage them to arm themselves in an even more deadly way.
Gun crime increased in the UK after the gun control laws were passed? Hardly surprising when you consider that merely being in possession of a firearm was then classified as a gun crime and that it was an issue that was much more seriously and doggedly policed than before. Robberies increased? So what? Robbers are not deterred by the prospect of the owners of the house they are robbing being armed. Hell, most robbers do their utmost to make sure that no-one is there to disturb them when they go about their robbing, so whether that no-one is armed or not doeso't affect their actions in the slightest. The truth of the matter is that those statistics reflect a period of time when the economy was going into recession and drug abuse was on the increase. The amount of muggings increased? See above. The fact that carrying a concealed weapon in public was always illegal means that the gun control laws had no bearing on this statistic anyway. Firearms murders increased? True, but did the writers of the above article even bother to explain why? Of course not, it would detract from their argument. The amount of gang related violence has been on the increase for a while now. Personally, I have nothing against gang members killing each other - they're welcome to it. The incidences of firearm related domestic violence has plummetted though. And, of course, the Dunblane incident has not been repeated since. To be quite honest, statistics can always be manipulated any way you want them, as the writers of the original article have obviously done in order to suit their argument. And shame on them for doing so. |
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#10 (permalink) | |
Loves my girl in thongs
Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada
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Having said that, no one is going to come take your hunting rifle. Probably not your handgun either. However, as a gun owner myself, I feel a need to point out two things if the Brady Bill is being mentioned. 1) A handgun has NO other purpose than to kill a fellow human. So by proxy if you purchase a handgun it is implicite that you are purchasing it with the thought that you may one day use it to take the life of a fellow human being. 2) I cannot fathom any reason on the planet that anyone not charged with defending or protecting has any reason to be in possesion of any gun that will fire at full auto. Unless you have some plans for goverment overthrowing or are a paranoid schizo who believes the commies are coming, I cannot see a valid explanation as to why such a weapon is needed. The 2nd gives you the right to bear arms, nowhere does it say you have a right to every weapon is existance or the most violent ones.
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Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever |
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#11 (permalink) | |
Huggles, sir?
Location: Seattle
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seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames |
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#12 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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#13 (permalink) |
Upright
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MooseMan3000
BlueMan: I'm not sure how you took it, but I just want to go on the record as saying I personally believe the Second Amendment protects the right of the individual to own firearms... at least, it does today. However, I can *also* read that amendment as "A well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state, therefore the people may maintain one." I never said I thought the National Guard was a militia. In the sense that I *can* see the Amendment, a militia is a privately controlled, as in controlled by the "PEOPLE" you kept mentioning, entity. First, I want to make clear I wasn't taking any personal shots at you. I just don't buy into that argument. Taken as a whole, every amendment in the Bill of Rights protects indidvidual rights, and every time "the people" is mentioned, it means "the people", not the state, or the militia, or any other body. It's the same "people" as is used in "We, The People of the United States of America". Unfortunately, some people throw out context in favor of making a definition fit their preferences. The Second Amendment taken in context with the entirety of the document protects an individual right. Also, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" is undefined. The "Founding Fathers," as we are so fond of calling them, never said "keep guns." They said "keep arms." Which is defined as "Instruments or weapons of offense or defense", i.e. guns are not the only definition, but they are included in the definition. This definition also extends to knives, etc. If you take the Second Amendment as concrete, as you said you do, then technically, I'm allowed to have a nuclear warhead. I'm allowed to develop chemical and biological weapons. I'm allowed to "keep and bear" my hyrdogen bomb while I'm walking down the street, in front of your house. The part I take as "concrete" is the assertion that it is an individual right, and not the right of a nebulous "militia". Which, even if you go that way, a militia is the citizenry who are capable of bearing arms, so either way, it's not meant as a right of government. You'll note in my earlier arguments that I stated that I -could- agree with an interpretation that it was meant to designate personal arms, i.e. rifles and other small arms. Nuclear weapons, the absurd extreme of this argument, are on a whole other level of weaponry that should be tightly controlled for very valid reasons. No reasonable person would argue that individuals should have a nuclear bomb in their possesion. That argument is hyperbole usually used to take discussions such as this completely off point. But obviously this is complete shit. If you agree that any limitations can be set on "arms" ownership, then you CANNOT assert that the Second Amendment is absolutely clear. You missed my point. What I state is clear is that the 2nd guarantees an -individual- right, and I stand by that argument for the reasons I have articulated before, that you cannot show me in context of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights where "the people" refers to anything other than the body of individual citizens. When the language of the document means the state, it says, "the state", when it means the Congress, it says "The Congress", when it means "the people", it -says- "the people". Other "interpretations" are deliberate twisting of words to try to slam the round peg of the Constitution into the square hole of the anti-gun crowd's bias. The Constitution, and any subsequent amendments, were specifically written as NOT to be clear, so they can apply to situations in the future. I don't believe it is written to be vague. It -is- written in a formal type of English that very few people seem to completely comprehend anymore, but the people that wrote it did so with the stated intent to limit the powers of the federal government and reserve authority to the states and to the people. They did not want a strong central government. They didn't want wiggle room. The Bill of Rights was intended as a clarification of things they did not specificially address in the Constitution. The amendments are written as brief, to the point sentences. They say what they say. If you want to change what they say, they left you a mechanism for that in the amendment process. As it is, the Constitution has been stretched and tortured to the point that the Fed is -far- more powerful than the Founders ever intended. I appreciate your response, and respect your opinions, I simply disagree, so thanks for the reasoned reply. |
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#14 (permalink) | ||
"Officer, I was in fear for my life"
Location: Oklahoma City
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Fully automatic weapons are regulated by the ATF, the Firearms act of 1934, and the IRS. This act privides for people to own fully automatic weapons and other destructive devices. Linky I'm not going to get into those laws specifically because they have been addressed other places on the forums. Quote:
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#15 (permalink) | |
Upright
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Laws restricting gun ownership do nothing to affect those who are already disobeying the laws. All it accomplishes is reducing the ability of the law-abiding to defend themselves. I would offer instead that laws against the -illegal use- of firearms would be more effective, but of course only if they are strongly enforced. |
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#16 (permalink) |
Psycho
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If you reduce the number of firearms in circulation, you reduce the amount of firearms that are able to be used for crimes. Where do you think most of the guns used in crimes come from? At one point they were legally owned by someone. If you make it impossible for people to legally own one, where are the criminals going to get them from?
Apart from that, some studies of the CCW law shows that those being issued with licences are also the ones committing the crimes. All criminals have to begin being criminals somewhere. Someone who's never been arrested for anything in his life can easily go and buy a gun (and when I say 'never arrested,' that covers people who have not yet committed a crime and those who have never been CAUGHT committing a crime). Laws reducing gun ownership do EVERYTHING to affect those who are disobeying the laws. All you have to do is look at Europe to see that. Of course, there are always going to be criminals who find ways of getting guns, but their numbers are vastly reduced. Vastly. And the chance that they will actually use them on unarmed civilians is also reduced. |
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#17 (permalink) | |||
Upright
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#18 (permalink) |
Muffled
Location: Camazotz
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OMG, I can't deal with another gun argument.
If your main hotbutton is guns, then vote on it. I just think it's kind of shortsighted to vote based on one issue. Then again, if guns are super-important to you, you've got a fair chance of being in line with the rest of the right-wing platform.
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it's quiet in here |
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#19 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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#20 (permalink) | |||
Psycho
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The genie does go back into the bottle. If you don't think that strict gun control will be effective, then look at Europe. I am not making an hypothetical argument here. Quote:
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The more guns you have in circulation, the more guns there are available for criminals to use. Strict laws are also not a deterrant and never have been. Personally, I'd rather stop the problem at source than punish after the act. |
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#21 (permalink) | |||||
"Officer, I was in fear for my life"
Location: Oklahoma City
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#23 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Never Never Land
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I always love these gun debate issues. It always breaks down into some lame statistics war or debate about how gun ownership helps personal protection or protects personal liberties. (I not say anything against these arguments, just that they are always the same ones used) What I would love to see is some serious talk about conversation about how to solve the problem of crime rather than just blaming guns (or lack there of) for being the issue. Personally I am with Chris Rock on this on, just make bullets cost about 5,000 each and the problem would be solved. If your willing to put 100,000 dollars worth of bullets into a guy then he probably deserved to die. And if your willing to spend 5,000 to kill a deer then I guarentee you wont be missing too often (thereby eliminating the need for semi-automatic rifles, which if you think about it, the only reason any hunter would actual need one of these things is because he is a bad shot ... lol which I could tell you plenty of hunting stories about ... oh did I mention that I own guns? ex member of the NRA?) The great thing about this post, and well this board in particular, is that it has given me yet another great idea for a paper topic. What would I do without the TFP to stimulate my creative juices?
AHHH damnit Jim! had to go and split the post right as I was posting this too .... sigh |
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#24 (permalink) | |
"Officer, I was in fear for my life"
Location: Oklahoma City
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1) Who is the we who are going to go about price fixing the ammunition? 2)What about the economy after we do this? 3)What about military spending and defense, after all the military uses the same type of rounds as other people? As to why use a semi-automatic while hunting....multiple targets...need more than one shot for take down.....large game....bad shot |
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#26 (permalink) | |
"Officer, I was in fear for my life"
Location: Oklahoma City
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#27 (permalink) | |||||
Addict
Location: Oh God, the rain!
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- but I also find truth with Quote:
but you gotta be kidding me when someone says Quote:
and you really got to be kidding me when someone says Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is also totally true Quote:
About assualt weapons. Why do people believe that assualt wepons are like these mega powered death machines? I dont really get how so many people are scared and say that if the AWB sunsets full auto ak's and uzi's are going to flood the streets. They are illegal anyway. The people who do legally have automatic weapons are pretty responsible if you ask me. Well on the other hand I have heard some time ago a police officer who stole a lot of drug money to buy a M2 .50cal machine gun to "combat terrorism". If you get a grenade launcher when the AWB expires it is still illegal to get grenades. I have never ever heard of a criminal using a bayonet. Supressors and silencers that go on threading are not legal in many states anyway. Flash supressors dont make a gun better. Pistol grips on rifles seem weird. Dont all pistols have pistol grips? Most of the AWB stuff seems cosmetic. For assualt pistols how does having the magazine outside of the grip make it dangerous? Having a barrel shroud so you can hold a pistol with both hands seems kind of odd. If you want to hold something with both hands wouldn't you go for a carbine or rifle or anything with a stock? I like to compare most of the AWB stuff to ricers. Putting a body kit on your car, putting a grape fruit launcher muffler on, stickers, a negative hood, spinners and chrome, and no putting fire decals will not make any of a difference much like a lot of the AWB. "Having a semi auto version of a full auto gun" I think most manufacturers have changed the names and cosmetics of their guns to get around this. On the other hand I dont know what to feel about the 10 round magazine limit. I think both sides of the argument have merit. 10 is such an arbitrary number. I don't think there was ever a study that proved that any magazine bigger than holds more than 10 will cause more crime. On the other hand many people are scared. You shouldnt have to fear anything. But again those people also say you don't "need" 20 round magazines. I think this part is an argument between "need" and "want" you can argue about it forever actually the entire thing about gun control has just about been argued about for just about forever.. On the other hand the my only problem about the gunshow loop hole is that I dont think 18 year olds need to have firearms. I think 21+ is pretty good. Just to let you know I dont really care much about guns its just that I think politicians need to step away from guns= automatically bad. Every single time I hear about some kid being shot or a police officer or anyperson I am concerned and feel sad that it has happened and feel for their families. But I think we need to strive together for a more meaningful way to make this country better. Im getting tired writing. I'm probably never ever going to get a firearm to tell you the truth. I live in a safe place near Seattle so I dont feel any danger at all. You know what Instead of a firearm I'll just go for a bb gun or match air gun and plink at some cans. Oh can anyone direct me to an official government site that has the entire AWB bill written down? Last edited by Asuka{eve}; 05-27-2004 at 04:31 PM.. |
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#28 (permalink) |
"Officer, I was in fear for my life"
Location: Oklahoma City
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Government site contianing the AWB bill, expiring in just over 3.5 months.
![]() Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 Last edited by hrdwareguy; 05-27-2004 at 02:40 PM.. |
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#29 (permalink) | |||
Tone.
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That's absurd. The idea that the people could stop an oppressive government was fine when armies mainly had muskets and rifles that were pretty much identical to what the peasants had. YOU, however can at best get an M16 or two, and that's very iffy. More likely you can only get hold of a shotgun/rifle/handgun/AK47 at best. The military on the other hand has tanks, missiles, and the stealth bomber. In the old days, too, militaries were trained to wear bright red clothes and march side by side standing as tall as they could be. In short, they were taught to do everything in their power to get their asses shot. Today, we have a large military with incredibly effective training. You, if you're lucky, have a firearms instructor at the local range. Most people's training consists of shooting at tin cans and deer. Point 2 for the military.I really don't think the people can do a whole lot to stop the military at this point. Anyone who thinks they can has been watching too many movies. Quote:
A logical fallacy. What of the many people who buy handguns so that they can use them for target shooting - for fun? What of the hunters who buy them so they can finish off the deer after it's downed by their rifle? Quote:
Last edited by shakran; 05-27-2004 at 02:47 PM.. |
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#30 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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Then you don't understand the function of the infantry. One German officer to another in a French cafe, "So, who won the air war?"
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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#31 (permalink) | |
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Location: Oh God, the rain!
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#32 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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Um, yes, actually I do. And I'm also realistic enough to know that a few mountain men huddled in their cabins pointing AK-47's out the window are not going to be enough to defeat even a modestly sized force of Army infantry. And I'm further realistic enough to know that, assuming that somehow these mountain men develop super warfare abilities overnight in between rounds of Coors and manage to defeat the infantry, that the military will then bring this neat thing called artillery into the picture and wipe our heroic freedom fighters off the face of the earth. And if the artillery gets defeated (and I'd LOVE for you to tell me how that will happen) then the military has airplanes which can drop bombs and vaporize these people whom you apparantly believe can defeat the entire might of the US military simply because of two sentences in a 200 year old document. I'm not saying ban guns. I'm saying anyone who uses the "don't ban guns because only through letting people have deer rifles can we defeat an oppressive government" is barking up the wrong tree. No one with even a slight sense of reality would believe that scenario is remotely possible. All I'm saying is you should find PLAUSIBLE arguments for why the people should be allowed to have weapons. |
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#33 (permalink) | |
Upright
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There is no compelling reason to maintain a right to bear arms at the present other than that there may be a need in the future. That is exactly why it was enumerated second only to free speech as a fundamental right of the citizen. It is ironic that the same people in this country who are presently so paranoid about government overeaching its authority are the same people who want to take away the last resort to oppose it. "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to posses arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." -Adolph Hitler 1938 |
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#34 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Never Never Land
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Sigh ... I had hoped that when I mentioned that I was siding with Chris Rock people would realize that I was being sarcastic. Obviously this is not the answer to the problem, just as limiting access to guns for law abiding citizens will not significantly bring down crime statistics. What we have at issue here is a real non-issue. It, like most things debated in American politics, is simply a diversion tactic by our “wonderful” two party system to keep people away from the real topics that need to be discussed, like how to lower poverty levels so that less people will become desperate enough to turn to a life of crime. Have your guns or don’t. Personally I don’t think it will make a big difference one way or the other. Just spare me the lame assed arguments from both sides for why your side is more “right”.
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#35 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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A "few guys" with some AK47's would not be effective, but tens of thousands of gun owners running guerilla operations and taking over national armory depot's along with defecting soldiers would. Look, I really don't care if you believe me or not, but every military person will tell you the same: it's the grunt with the rifle that ultimately wins or loses a war (as the Soviets found out in Afghanistan).
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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#36 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Never Never Land
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#37 (permalink) | |||||
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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[/quote]More like a military overthrough of the government which (usually) results in some form of military dictatorship.[/quote] That is one VERY good reason for the second; it makes a military coup less likely to succeed. Quote:
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But what if you had your right to vote taken away? Quote:
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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#39 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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#40 (permalink) | ||||||
"Officer, I was in fear for my life"
Location: Oklahoma City
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control, gun, guns, thread |
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