Kerrys' remarks - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tecoyah · 03-11-2004, 05:41 AM

Go Kerry...."these guys are the most corrupt and....crooked". Right on the mark. Wish he had the balls to say this to the media, on purpose.

onetime2 · 03-11-2004, 06:06 AM

It's statements like that which will keep him from the Presidency, so yeah "Go Kerry" keep it up.

dy156 · 03-11-2004, 06:13 AM

It wasn't a big deal when Cheney and Bush called someone a "Bigtime" asshole, and this isn't a big deal either. They just need to be more careful with their microphones.

Dragonlich · 03-11-2004, 07:59 AM

I would have called them much worse if I were him. But then again, I'm not running for the US' presidency.

mystmarimatt · 03-11-2004, 09:34 AM

I laughed when i heard about it. Not so much because he said it, but because he actually used the term 'crooked', as opposed to something worse.

Maybe he really did learn from that profane statement a few months ago.

Fallon · 03-11-2004, 09:46 AM

Eh, I wanted to see that last night on the News but I missed it, wanna provide a bit more background or a link maybe?

mystmarimatt · 03-11-2004, 12:06 PM

Here you go, Fallon.

Quote:

Kerry: Comment aimed at 'attack dogs'
Hastert takes 'great umbrage' at comment
Thursday, March 11, 2004 Posted: 1:43 PM EST (1843 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry said on Thursday that he was not referring to all Republicans as "crooked" in an off-the-cuff comment captured on camera -- just his political opponents' "attack dogs."

After a union rally in Chicago, Illinois, on Wednesday Kerry told a worker that "these guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group of people I've ever seen." His microphone was still on when he made the comments.

Kerry, who was on Capitol Hill Thursday to meet with Congressional Democrats, he told CNN, "I didn't say it about the Republicans, I said it about the attack dogs."

On Wednesday, a campaign aide had said that Kerry wasn't talking about President Bush.

Kerry has touted himself as a "fighter" who will stand up to GOP attacks. He told the worker, "Don't worry, man -- we are going to keep pounding, let me tell you."

House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Illinois, said on Thursday that he took "great umbrage" at the comment.

"I am one of those Republicans in Illinois," he said. "If he wants to ascribe to me being crooked and a liar, I think he'll have his (comeuppance) coming." Hastert said Kerry's remarks were "the wrong way to step forward in this campaign."

Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot called Kerry's "crooked" comment "unbecoming of a candidate for the presidency of the United States."

"We call on Senator Kerry to apologize to the American people for this negative attack," Racicot said in a statement Wednesday afternoon.

"On the day that Senator Kerry emerged as his party's presumptive nominee, the president called to congratulate him," Racicot said. "That goodwill gesture has been met by attacks and false statements."

In his speech Wednesday, Kerry told AFL-CIO leaders, who have endorsed him, that "this is the most important race of our generation."

"This is the most significant moment of crony government and crony capitalism that I've seen in my political life. And we've learned the truth of what George Bush thinks -- exporting our jobs is good economic policy. I believe that creating jobs here in America, keeping good jobs here and exporting goods, is good for our economy."

"It's scary," replied another worker.

Kerry campaign official David Wade later told reporters that Kerry knew his microphone was on at the time he made the comment in question.

Wade said Kerry was not calling Bush crooked but was instead referring to Republicans who launched "crooked, deceitful, personal attacks over the last four years."

Among the examples Wade cited were comments made about former Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia during his failed re-election campaign in 2002 and about Sen. John McCain of Arizona during his race against Bush in 2000 for the GOP nomination, as well as doctored photographs appearing to place Kerry alongside Jane Fonda during protests against the Vietnam War.

Blaming the incidents on a GOP attack "machine," Wade said, "We are going to make it very clear that [Kerry's] a Democrat who punches back."

But Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt, in a statement, chided Kerry for claiming "to be the victim of an imaginary smear machine."

"John Kerry has run a relentlessly negative campaign from the very beginning, and this comment is completely consistent with that," Schmidt said. "He has offered no plan or positive agenda for the country and has based his entire campaign on a series of false and inaccurate attacks." "We have seen that again today when he attacked tax relief for American workers. His campaign-trail promises mean he is going to raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

Kerry has called for the repeal of some of Bush's tax cuts, which Republicans insist would amount to tax increases. However, Kerry has said he wants to retain the tax cuts geared to people in the middle class, whom he says face burdens from higher property taxes and rising costs for health care and education.

-- CNN's Ted Barrett contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ent/index.html

Fallon · 03-11-2004, 12:17 PM

Thank ya. Its not that big of a deal. Only that big of a deal because people want to blow it out of proportion because I'm CERTAIN no one has done anything like this before...
/sarcasim

Tomservo · 03-11-2004, 12:23 PM

It amazes me that anyone cares. I'd be more disappointed if Kerry DIDN'T feel that way about the current administration. I'd love to think he's running because he thinks the American people deserve better than the scoundrels in power, rather than the fact that he's just running because it's "Career Goal #19".

Kerry has at times been highly principled, and been willing to demonstrate these principles. I understand he's a bigtime flip-flopper now, or so the story goes, but if at *heart* he's really a do-gooder, that's not a bad thing. I guess we'll find out.

Strange Famous · 03-11-2004, 12:26 PM

What the hell is that guy (Bush's campaign manager) saying Kerry should "apologise to the American people" for calling the Republican Party crooked for? What a lunatic statement! Most people agree with Kerry, he should be shouting from the rooftops about Haliburton (or whatever the company is called), Enron, and so on...

If I was him I would be on national TV calling Bush an embezzler, a liar, a cheat and a crook.

archer2371 · 03-11-2004, 12:43 PM

Eh, it's not so much that he specifically called Bush a liar, feh, water off a duck's back. Same thing with the actual comment too, but isn't the pot calling the kettle black? Most politicians lie, whoa, yeah, I know, that's hard to understand. There are only a few of them that I consider to be upstanding citizens. The rest, oy, I wish people would vote based on personal research and not "research" done for them by the media. I digress. He probably did refer to the attackers on him, but hey, you gotta play the game and if you can't hack it, don't point the finger at the other side and whine.

mml · 03-11-2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
It's statements like that which will keep him from the Presidency, so yeah "Go Kerry" keep it up.

Oh, come on, this is nothing. This happens every election cycle. Someone gets caught "off mike" saying something a bit snide or rude. Reagan, Bush (41), Clinton, Bush(43) and all of their respective opponents got caught saying something like this or "off color".

What you need to understand is that many people in this country agree with him on this issue, which is why there is such a visciousness(sp?) in the opposition to President Bush. This is not like 1992 when his father lost. Even if the economy gets better, I think it will be a close race.

JBX · 03-11-2004, 01:18 PM

Quote:

After a union rally in Chicago, Illinois, on Wednesday Kerry told a worker that "these guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group of people I've ever seen." His microphone was still on when he made the comments.

To me it sounds like he was talking about the Union bosses he was just speaking to. If that's true it's far worse for Kerry that speaking of the Bush administration in that light. He never mentioned Republican anything, and in the context of where he was why is it not the unions he's referring to? It's not like Union bosses are not a crooked lying group of people.

Bill O'Rights · 03-11-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JBX
To me it sounds like he was talking about the Union bosses he was just speaking to. If that's true it's far worse for Kerry that speaking of the Bush administration in that light.

I was wondering the same thing. I thought that I must've missed something. [i]If[/b] Kerry did mean the union...he just needs to go right on letting people think that he meant the Republicans, 'cause he's finished.

funbob · 03-11-2004, 02:32 PM

What I find amuzing is that they are ALL crooked, Republican and Democrat alike, they don't give a flying shit about anything other than power. The Republicans trashed Clinton and now the Demorats are trashing Bush. Personally, I like the current administration, but am not foolish enough to think that they are lilly white.

Redlemon · 03-11-2004, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JBX
To me it sounds like he was talking about the Union bosses he was just speaking to.

No, it was pretty clear in context; I heard the full audiotape on NPR Morning Edition today.

Ah, here's a more complete quote:
"We're going to keep pounding, let me tell you. We're just beginning to fight here," Kerry said. "These guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group I've ever seen. It's scary." That wouldn't make any sense if he were talking about the unions.
link

Lebell · 03-11-2004, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by funbob
What I find amuzing is that they are ALL crooked, Republican and Democrat alike, they don't give a flying shit about anything other than power. The Republicans trashed Clinton and now the Demorats are trashing Bush. Personally, I like the current administration, but am not foolish enough to think that they are lilly white.

Bingo.

Give that man a beer.

ARTelevision · 03-11-2004, 02:55 PM

I trust that my President is thinking about more important things than what the Democratic front-runner is saying.

I try to focus on those things, as they have to do with global security, survival, and prosperity - and I'm sure that's what the President of the United States expends most of his important energy on.

maximusveritas · 03-11-2004, 03:26 PM

Sure, all politicians are crooked, but there are different levels of crookedness and the Bush administration is almost off the scale at this point.

Ustwo · 03-11-2004, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximusveritas
Sure, all politicians are crooked, but there are different levels of crookedness and the Bush administration is almost off the scale at this point.

I keep hearing the left saying this, but I don't see any proof of it. Maybe its one of those, 'if we say it enough, people will believe it' type of lies.

Glad-I-Ate-Her · 03-11-2004, 04:38 PM

These statements and the one Kerry said twice in one day a few months ago about "changing the regime" in Washington will hopefully stop him from winning the election. Was he implying that the regime in Iraq and Washington are the same? He is way off base on that one.

Glad

onetime2 · 03-11-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mml
Oh, come on, this is nothing. This happens every election cycle. Someone gets caught "off mike" saying something a bit snide or rude. Reagan, Bush (41), Clinton, Bush(43) and all of their respective opponents got caught saying something like this or "off color".

What you need to understand is that many people in this country agree with him on this issue, which is why there is such a visciousness(sp?) in the opposition to President Bush. This is not like 1992 when his father lost. Even if the economy gets better, I think it will be a close race.

This is nothing, but if he continues along these lines he will push away the middle of the road voters. The rhetoric of Dean brought about his demise. Kerry making the same unsubstantiated claims will do the same. It will attract liberals like flies to manure but it won't help with the swing voters.

Despite what you would like to believe, not everyone believes Bush and his colleagues are "crooked", at least no more than the rest of the politicians.

HarmlessRabbit · 03-11-2004, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
I trust that my President is thinking about more important things than what the Democratic front-runner is saying.

I try to focus on those things, as they have to do with global security, survival, and prosperity - and I'm sure that's what the President of the United States expends most of his important energy on.

That, and calling a journalist "a major league asshole" when he is off-mike. Oh, and running one of the most politics and survey-driven white houses since, well, Clinton.

But go ahead and think what you want, Art.

Personally, I think Kerry's quote was intentional. It was just a little too set-up. And NPR was kind enough to add at the end of the story how the democrats want a candidate who will "fight back". It just all seems a little too convenient.

mml · 03-11-2004, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
This is nothing, but if he continues along these lines he will push away the middle of the road voters. The rhetoric of Dean brought about his demise. Kerry making the same unsubstantiated claims will do the same. It will attract liberals like flies to manure but it won't help with the swing voters.

Despite what you would like to believe, not everyone believes Bush and his colleagues are "crooked", at least no more than the rest of the politicians.

It was not in a speech, it was in an "off mike" comment that he probably believes. I don't think he will be making any "Bush is a liar" speeches any time soon (not that I rule this out as a possibility). He is not going to apologize, because it will play well with his base and be forgotten by the general public by election time.

And no, I don't believe that "everyone" believes he and his colleagues are cooked. In fact, I don't think they are "crooked" I think they are misguided but I know many, many people (Democrats mostly) who frequently use words like crooked and corrupt when referring to President Bush.

Jasmar · 03-11-2004, 10:24 PM

I dont see why its a big deal. Kerry is free to say whatever he wants. This by far isn't the worst thing ive heard during a campaign. Bushes campaign manager wanting Kerry to apologise did give me a good laugh though

Paq · 03-11-2004, 10:39 PM

this just in..Kerry's apology:

"I'm sorry, mr. president, but you're surrounded by a bunch of crooks...i'm not saying you're a crook yourself, but you know, company you keep and all that good stuff

"

Personally, i dont' see this as a blip on the radar. He's got his opinions, i have mine, you have yours, his stating them isn't the "wisest" course of action, but it will play wel with his hardcore base, so it probably won't cost him much in the long run.

i actually think it was staged...

onetime2 · 03-12-2004, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mml

And no, I don't believe that "everyone" believes he and his colleagues are cooked. In fact, I don't think they are "crooked" I think they are misguided but I know many, many people (Democrats mostly) who frequently use words like crooked and corrupt when referring to President Bush.

I know it wasn't in a speech, but the last thing Kerry needs to do is follow this "non-public" statement up with similar statements whether purposely broadcast or not. Undecided voters have no patience for this sort of thing as it comes across as sophomoric.

For those who think that Bush's calling of someone an asshole is akin to accusing people of breaking the law, bull. A personal opinion of someone is one thing an accusation such as them being "crooked" is quite another.

Anyone who throws into a conversation that any administration is "crooked" or "corrupt" without offering hard evidence of the fact is not capable of carrying on a rational discussion. When they do this it typically destroys any respect I had for their other opinions.

onetime2 · 03-12-2004, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paq

i actually think it was staged...

It could well have been. Perhaps a nudge to get the Dean supporters to think Kerry is more like them than they thought.

funbob · 03-12-2004, 07:52 AM

A few post back I read this

"Sure, all politicians are crooked, but there are different levels of crookedness and the Bush administration is almost off the scale at this point."

This is the problem in this country; we have too many shades of gray and off white. Wrong is wrong, right is right. To say one side is more guilty than the other is just plain wrong and insane!! We need to get back to debating the ISSUES not this new form of campaigning called hit and run politics. I am looking for a politician that walks away from the negativity and focuses on what is REAL!!! I don’t want empty promises, I don’t want smear tactics, I don’t want the guy who looks good on TV, I want the guy who can run this country.

Hey what do I know? That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong

JohnnyRock · 03-12-2004, 09:15 AM

more truthful [albeit tame] words were never spoken.

irateplatypus · 03-12-2004, 09:18 AM

while i don't really think this statement is anything to be worried about or apologized for, it is just another example of a politcian saying things that get the politically simple riled up but don't necessarily reflect anything in reality.

similarly, i've read a lot of blanket statements and ridiculous indictments on this thread... but there is nothing that could possibly back most of them up. don't get bent out of shape if someone calls you a nazi or communist if you're willing to call the leader of the free world an embezzler, crook, or anything else that you can't backup.

just because you heard some guy on tv say something extreme, or just because you want to believe it doesn't make it so.

StormBerlin · 03-12-2004, 09:29 AM

I thought it was damn funny. Finally a politician who speaks his mind

I heard that he knew the mic was on. That's what makes it even better.

irateplatypus · 03-12-2004, 09:45 AM

there is no shortage of politicians who speak their minds. a politician who speaks the truth? they're as rare as gold, but worth their weight in it.

gibingus · 03-12-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
I trust that my President is thinking about more important things than what the Democratic front-runner is saying.

I try to focus on those things, as they have to do with global security, survival, and prosperity - and I'm sure that's what the President of the United States expends most of his important energy on.

you actually sound like kerry, quoted in this morning's washington post, he however asserts that the bush campaign is not focusing on those issues:

Quote:

He cited Bush's ads against Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) in the 2000 presidential primary, and GOP ads that helped oust Sen. Max Cleland (D-Ga.) in 2002. Both men, like Kerry, are decorated Vietnam War veterans. "There is a Republican attack squad that specializes in trying to destroy people and be negative," Kerry said. "I think the president needs to talk about the real priorities of our country."

Ustwo · 03-12-2004, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by StormBerlin
I thought it was damn funny. Finally a politician who speaks his mind I heard that he knew the mic was on. That's what makes it even better.

Laugh, Kerry doesn't speak his mind, he refused to even answer the question if he was a liberal or not. Perhaps he wanted to seem edgy much like his use of the word 'fuck' back when his campaign was going no where. You saying he knew the mic was only, only makes this the more likely senerio.

'Ok ummm John, now don't take this the wrong way but people still think you are about as exciting as a corpse. Maybe you could spice it up a bit, say something bad about the republicans and pretend it wasn't ment to be heard out loud, think you could do that for us?'

gibingus · 03-12-2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
I keep hearing the left saying this, but I don't see any proof of it. Maybe its one of those, 'if we say it enough, people will believe it' type of lies.

would the $900 billion tax increase figure qualify in that category?

Quote:

(Kerry spokesperson) Cutter said the $900 billion figure "is completely made up and shows that George Bush is running a campaign of deception and distortion." Kerry has proposed repealing the Bush tax cuts for those earning more than $200,000 and closing what he calls corporate tax loopholes.

The Bush camp's math rests on a series of assumptions. Campaign manager Ken Mehlman said the $900 billion reflects independent estimates, which Kerry does not dispute, of the cost of his health care plan over 10 years. Since Kerry's proposed tax hike on the wealthiest Americans would raise about $250 billion during that period -- and he has vowed not to increase the budget deficit -- the Bush team argues that he would have to make up the rest with increased taxes.

if anything, ustwo, you can't call kerry "spineless" for not backing down on this one.

and this article paints the bush camp tacticians in a pretty harsh light.

Bush Exaggerates Kerry's Position on Intelligence Budget

the facts nailed the bush camp on that one, looks pretty bad.

water_boy1999 · 03-12-2004, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
Anyone who throws into a conversation that any administration is "crooked" or "corrupt" without offering hard evidence of the fact is not capable of carrying on a rational discussion. When they do this it typically destroys any respect I had for their other opinions.

Personally, I do believe it was staged. It will also be forgotten by tomorrow. It is just one more way for republicans to point out that Kerry is such a bad candidate for president because his usage of off color remarks is certainly not good form for a "president-to-be". This is just one more way that the Republicans are force feeding us with their religious agenda.

On the flipside, Kerry said this for the very purpose of being heard. He wants it to be known that there seems to be some shady crap happening in the house of republicans. I believe this statement was deliberate and is setting the tone for a serious fight for the presidency.

As far as your comment goes, it looks as if you have already made up your mind about who you want to be president. You really feel that all of Kerry's other opinions are out the window because of something he said under his breath? That seems a little harsh. What about Bush and his campaign to get the WMD out of Iraq? How about Bush's bankruptcy scandals? In fact, how much money you want to bet that come November, Osama Bin Fucknugget will miraculously be captured and Bush will be made out to be a saviour? Just seems to me that all the justification we need for Kerry's comments, Bush has already given it to us.

JohnnyRock · 03-12-2004, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by water_boy1999
Personally, I do believe it was staged. It will also be forgotten by tomorrow. It is just one more way for republicans to point out that Kerry is such a bad candidate for president because his usage of off color remarks is certainly not good form for a "president-to-be". This is just one more way that the Republicans are force feeding us with their religious agenda.

On the flipside, Kerry said this for the very purpose of being heard. He wants it to be known that there seems to be some shady crap happening in the house of republicans. I believe this statement was deliberate and is setting the tone for a serious fight for the presidency.

As far as your comment goes, it looks as if you have already made up your mind about who you want to be president. You really feel that all of Kerry's other opinions are out the window because of something he said under his breath? That seems a little harsh. What about Bush and his campaign to get the WMD out of Iraq? How about Bush's bankruptcy scandals? In fact, how much money you want to bet that come November, Osama Bin Fucknugget will miraculously be captured and Bush will be made out to be a saviour? Just seems to me that all the justification we need for Kerry's comments, Bush has already given it to us.

Or how about the fact that the CIA knew about the 9/11 plans and under Bush's watch ignored it. How bout the fact that, in part, the war in Iraq acts as a money laundering operation for many companies that have ties to the Bush regime.

onetime2 · 03-12-2004, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by water_boy1999
Personally, I do believe it was staged. It will also be forgotten by tomorrow. It is just one more way for republicans to point out that Kerry is such a bad candidate for president because his usage of off color remarks is certainly not good form for a "president-to-be". This is just one more way that the Republicans are force feeding us with their religious agenda.

On the flipside, Kerry said this for the very purpose of being heard. He wants it to be known that there seems to be some shady crap happening in the house of republicans. I believe this statement was deliberate and is setting the tone for a serious fight for the presidency.

As far as your comment goes, it looks as if you have already made up your mind about who you want to be president. You really feel that all of Kerry's other opinions are out the window because of something he said under his breath? That seems a little harsh. What about Bush and his campaign to get the WMD out of Iraq? How about Bush's bankruptcy scandals? In fact, how much money you want to bet that come November, Osama Bin Fucknugget will miraculously be captured and Bush will be made out to be a saviour? Just seems to me that all the justification we need for Kerry's comments, Bush has already given it to us.

I have already made up my mind that I will vote for Bush. But that has nothing to do with my statement. My comment was in regard to this response from mml and directed at those who throw around criminal accusations like they mean nothing:

"In fact, I don't think they are "crooked" I think they are misguided but I know many, many people (Democrats mostly) who frequently use words like crooked and corrupt when referring to President Bush."

There's not one shred of hard evidence to prove any of these ridiculous allegations and yet there's a large segment of people who believe them (by your statements it appears you and JohnnyRock fall into that category as well).

As far as the WMD argument, the CIA knowing beforehand about the attacks, etc there's no substance to them just like the charge that they're all a bunch of crooks. Feel free to browse through the countless threads that discuss these topics in detail since I'm not about to go through them point by point again.

irateplatypus · 03-12-2004, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyRock
Or how about the fact that the CIA knew about the 9/11 plans and under Bush's watch ignored it. How bout the fact that, in part, the war in Iraq acts as a money laundering operation for many companies that have ties to the Bush regime.

how bout the fact that neither of those two are facts.

03-11-2004, 05:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Kerrys' remarks Go Kerry...."these guys are the most corrupt and....crooked". Right on the mark. Wish he had the balls to say this to the media, on purpose. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

03-11-2004, 06:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	It's statements like that which will keep him from the Presidency, so yeah "Go Kerry" keep it up. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

03-11-2004, 09:34 AM	#5 (permalink)
mystmarimatt Omnipotent Ruler Of The Tiny Universe In My Mind Location: Oreegawn	I laughed when i heard about it. Not so much because he said it, but because he actually used the term 'crooked', as opposed to something worse. Maybe he really did learn from that profane statement a few months ago. __________________ Words of Wisdom: If you could really get to know someone and know that they weren't lying to you, then you would know the world was real. Because you could agree on things, you could compare notes. That must be why people get married or make Art. So they'll be able to really know something and not go insane.

03-11-2004, 12:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	What the hell is that guy (Bush's campaign manager) saying Kerry should "apologise to the American people" for calling the Republican Party crooked for? What a lunatic statement! Most people agree with Kerry, he should be shouting from the rooftops about Haliburton (or whatever the company is called), Enron, and so on... If I was him I would be on national TV calling Bush an embezzler, a liar, a cheat and a crook. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-11-2004, 12:43 PM	#11 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	Eh, it's not so much that he specifically called Bush a liar, feh, water off a duck's back. Same thing with the actual comment too, but isn't the pot calling the kettle black? Most politicians lie, whoa, yeah, I know, that's hard to understand. There are only a few of them that I consider to be upstanding citizens. The rest, oy, I wish people would vote based on personal research and not "research" done for them by the media. I digress. He probably did refer to the attackers on him, but hey, you gotta play the game and if you can't hack it, don't point the finger at the other side and whine. __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

03-11-2004, 06:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
dy156 cookie Location: in the backwoods	It wasn't a big deal when Cheney and Bush called someone a "Bigtime" asshole, and this isn't a big deal either. They just need to be more careful with their microphones.

03-11-2004, 07:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	I would have called them much worse if I were him. But then again, I'm not running for the US' presidency.

03-11-2004, 09:46 AM	#6 (permalink)
Fallon Junkie Location: RI	Eh, I wanted to see that last night on the News but I missed it, wanna provide a bit more background or a link maybe?

03-11-2004, 12:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
Fallon Junkie Location: RI	Thank ya. Its not that big of a deal. Only that big of a deal because people want to blow it out of proportion because I'm CERTAIN no one has done anything like this before... /sarcasim

03-11-2004, 12:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tomservo Crazy Location: Los Angeles, CA	It amazes me that anyone cares. I'd be more disappointed if Kerry DIDN'T feel that way about the current administration. I'd love to think he's running because he thinks the American people deserve better than the scoundrels in power, rather than the fact that he's just running because it's "Career Goal #19". Kerry has at times been highly principled, and been willing to demonstrate these principles. I understand he's a bigtime flip-flopper now, or so the story goes, but if at heart he's really a do-gooder, that's not a bad thing. I guess we'll find out.

03-11-2004, 02:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
funbob Crazy Location: The Desert Southwest	What I find amuzing is that they are ALL crooked, Republican and Democrat alike, they don't give a flying shit about anything other than power. The Republicans trashed Clinton and now the Demorats are trashing Bush. Personally, I like the current administration, but am not foolish enough to think that they are lilly white.

03-11-2004, 02:55 PM	#18 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I trust that my President is thinking about more important things than what the Democratic front-runner is saying. I try to focus on those things, as they have to do with global security, survival, and prosperity - and I'm sure that's what the President of the United States expends most of his important energy on. __________________ create evolution

03-11-2004, 03:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	Sure, all politicians are crooked, but there are different levels of crookedness and the Bush administration is almost off the scale at this point.

03-11-2004, 04:38 PM	#21 (permalink)
Glad-I-Ate-Her Junkie Location: 1 mile from Ground Zero	These statements and the one Kerry said twice in one day a few months ago about "changing the regime" in Washington will hopefully stop him from winning the election. Was he implying that the regime in Iraq and Washington are the same? He is way off base on that one. Glad __________________ I'm "Glad I Ate Her" because the payback was worth it!!

03-11-2004, 10:24 PM	#25 (permalink)
Jasmar Crazy	I dont see why its a big deal. Kerry is free to say whatever he wants. This by far isn't the worst thing ive heard during a campaign. Bushes campaign manager wanting Kerry to apologise did give me a good laugh though

03-11-2004, 10:39 PM	#26 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	this just in..Kerry's apology: "I'm sorry, mr. president, but you're surrounded by a bunch of crooks...i'm not saying you're a crook yourself, but you know, company you keep and all that good stuff " Personally, i dont' see this as a blip on the radar. He's got his opinions, i have mine, you have yours, his stating them isn't the "wisest" course of action, but it will play wel with his hardcore base, so it probably won't cost him much in the long run. i actually think it was staged... __________________ Live. Chris

03-12-2004, 07:52 AM	#29 (permalink)
funbob Crazy Location: The Desert Southwest	A few post back I read this "Sure, all politicians are crooked, but there are different levels of crookedness and the Bush administration is almost off the scale at this point." This is the problem in this country; we have too many shades of gray and off white. Wrong is wrong, right is right. To say one side is more guilty than the other is just plain wrong and insane!! We need to get back to debating the ISSUES not this new form of campaigning called hit and run politics. I am looking for a politician that walks away from the negativity and focuses on what is REAL!!! I don’t want empty promises, I don’t want smear tactics, I don’t want the guy who looks good on TV, I want the guy who can run this country. Hey what do I know? That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong

03-12-2004, 09:15 AM	#30 (permalink)
JohnnyRock Addict Location: Taxachussetts	more truthful [albeit tame] words were never spoken. __________________ Not only do I not know the answer...I don't even know what the question is!!!

03-12-2004, 09:18 AM	#31 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	while i don't really think this statement is anything to be worried about or apologized for, it is just another example of a politcian saying things that get the politically simple riled up but don't necessarily reflect anything in reality. similarly, i've read a lot of blanket statements and ridiculous indictments on this thread... but there is nothing that could possibly back most of them up. don't get bent out of shape if someone calls you a nazi or communist if you're willing to call the leader of the free world an embezzler, crook, or anything else that you can't backup. just because you heard some guy on tv say something extreme, or just because you want to believe it doesn't make it so. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill Last edited by irateplatypus; 03-12-2004 at 09:21 AM..

03-12-2004, 09:29 AM	#32 (permalink)
StormBerlin Happy as a hippo Location: Southern California	I thought it was damn funny. Finally a politician who speaks his mind I heard that he knew the mic was on. That's what makes it even better. __________________ "if anal sex could get a girl pregnant i'd be tits deep in child support" Arcane

03-12-2004, 09:45 AM	#33 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	there is no shortage of politicians who speak their minds. a politician who speaks the truth? they're as rare as gold, but worth their weight in it. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill